Was the Vietnam war winable? >send all anti-war hippies to

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Yea it definately was winable but the cost was too great for the conflict. Yea, it was fought to prevent the spread of communism but not many people were willing to risk their lifes and families lifes for shitty ass vietnam.

>>34817585
That sounds incredibly retarded.

McNamara was a brilliant person, but the wrong guy to be in charge.

>>34817585
>go full Genghis Khan in North Vietnam.
...So, lose?

>mfw this pleb doesn't even know his history

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>>34817585
No fuck off GI.

>Rice = safe

>>34817585
So you're not only a fucking retard, but you don't even understand why the US was in Vietnam in the first place, yet you feel you have input on what would have made it turn out for the better?

Never post on /k/ again.

>>34818343
MacNamara was a fucking omnisperg.

>>34817585
We were winning it until Democrat politicians lost us the war out of spite to Nixon

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>>34817585

We were killing them in droves and won the tet offensive, but you can blame the media on this one

>>34817585
Literally the only thing we'd have to change in order to win the war is hold up our end of the Paris Agreement - carpet bomb the shit out of PAVN staging areas and they don't have much left to invade the South, do they?

To win The Vietnamese War you would need to invade and occupy Laos and Cambodia so the North can't move men and materials to the south of Vietnam through the House Chi Minh Trail, you would also need to be great to the Southern Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians.

Stop conscription and have a volunteer only professional army, ban ALL US media from combat zones.

Make things so good for the people of South East Asia in the territories you control that they openly hate communism.
give the locals tools they need to defend themselves, route out the enemy and leave.

>>34817585
>Wanting to be the bad guy this bad

Doing that you make Stalin sound like a fucking pacifist. Genocide on that scale would literally make the entire planet hate you.

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>>34817585

The US military was forbidden from invading North Vietnam due to fear that if we did the Chinese would enter the war like they did in Korea and then we could have a potential WWIII on our hands.

That turned the conflict into a war of attrition where our strategy was reduced to kill the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong until they give up and settle for peace and for our part we did kill their soldiers at a rate of about 10 for every 1 American we lost (and that doesn't even include civilian casualties). Only problem was that they never gave up because they were really invested in victory and viewed us as the evil invaders whereas much of the American public and many of our conscripted soldiers didn't care about victory and just wanted the war to end. The combination of being limited to attrition tactics and having a public who weren't willing to stand for attrition in the same way the Vietnamese were rendered the war unwinnable.

Actually winning the war would have required us to invade North Vietnam, take their cities, and cripple their infrastructure. Then we could have settled for a permanent peace treaty that returned North Vietnam to the commies in exchange for a permanent peace with South Vietnam.

Of course invading North Vietnam would risk Chinese involvement and a potential WWIII, so you have to ask yourself if it was really worth the risk. I don't think it was and that's part of what made the war so asinine.

>turn Vietnam into another Hawaii and use as buffer zone to contain Chinese

A permanent occupation of North Vietnam wouldn't be worth it. If we'd done that we'd still be fighting commie guerillas to this day.

Sure it was winnable

Don't help the French in the first place, give the Viets support for independence

Receive ally for life

But we did. In the classical sense. NV surrendered, signed a peace treaty, whole nine yards.

The point of contention is the fact that a year or two later after we were gone they fired up their last company worth of tanks and trucks and steamed right for Saigon. Those dumb CIA niggers staying behind made it look like they beat off the entire army.

>>34819852
>get caught slightly on the back foot by Tet
>completely curbstomp the commies for the rest of the year
>Westmoreland decides that with a larger force he can crush them for good
>sends request for 200,000 extra GI's
>some numbskull leaks this to the press
>massive public backlash
>Vietnamization ensues

>>34821237
This. This would have been the road to go. Most of the vietnamese didnt give two shits for what policy was implemented, they just wanted all collonial forces (It beeing French, Japanese or American) to get the fuck of their clay

>>34817585
>literally starting an ethnically motivated total war in a foreign land surrounded on three sides by enemies who'd have to fight to the last man or be next to get genocided
>literally nobody in the world is ok with this or willing to help you because the war was pig stupid even before making that move
>might even start rioting/fighting on the home front due to "internment" camps
GJ finding a way to make vietnam even more of a shit show op

>>34821212
Only if you were not committing mass Genocide as a communist/socialist.
Noone cares then.

Do it as a white protestant nationalist and then you get hated.

>>34821335
Are you saying nobody hated Stalin? Because Id like to state that eastern europe, Finland, the Baltics, most of Russia and most of everyone else disagrees.

>>34821222
The US and Allied forces should have invaded the USSR and gone to the aid of Nationalist China at the end of WW2, using jets and nukes, before our enemies had them.

Then reform Russia and China much like Germany and Japan, then onto the middle east where we destroy every Islamic anything.

>>34821335

>mass genocide
>somehow acceptable regardless of who you are

i don't think so tim

>>34817585
Yes, after the Tet offensive the congs were exhausted. A counter offensive would have won the war but hippies had to ruin everything.

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>>34821354
Talk to the average person about both Hitler and Stalin, ask them who was more evil.

>>34821363
Ok so when you show people pictures of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Castro they don't think horrible genocidal maniac like they do Hitler.

>>34819817
Nixon pretty much was offered and accepted the same peace deal that LBJ was offered throughout the conflict. Both sides of the aisle wanted out due to immense public pressure, but Nixon wanted to buy time for the ARVN to unfuck itself, but alas they did not.

>>34817585
No.
>Stop bombing dirt farmers in the jungle
>Start bombing major cities in the north

>>34821374
>Yes, after the hundred days offensive the entente were exhausted. A counter offensive would have won the great war but jewish communists had to ruin everything.
where were you when american delusion reached weimar republic levels?

>>34821383

That's more a result of people being uninformed about history rather than judging them differently.

>>34821376

Thats because everyone knows about Hitler and what he did, but due to the nature of the USSR and later Russia, most things was censured and you'd get shot if you spoke bad about him so you keept quiet.

But here in europe I'd say a lot of people would claim Stalin is worse. At least those who have any knowledge about the subject. What whitetrash and uneducated rednecks belive is irrelevant anyway.

>>34817585
That would be nice, I think that's what we should do to Mexico. Manifest destiny their asses all the way back to South America and utilize all that delicious farmland.

The point of Vietnam was to contain the spread Communism, and the best method was to aid the anti-commies to the point they could be self-sufficient and fight off commies by themselves in the future. We didn't fail in Vietnam, the Vietnamese did. Same way we won't fail Iraq, the liberated Iraqi army will. We gave them everything they needed to continue the fight, after winning much of it for them, and they still lost.

>>34821433
when has bombing civilian areas ever resulted in a capitulation?
all i can think of is Rotterdam, after which the Dutch surrendered, but they already knew that they stood no chance against the Germans, even with the help of the French and British

>>34817585
The easiest way to win would have been to support Vietnamese freedom in 1945 from the French. But since that wasn't going to happen you have two other course of action, realistically.
1. Make the it a permanent duty station and begin bringing on civilian personnel. Within 3 generations you will have a significant enough population of mixed Vietnamese Americans to form a ruling clique, taught and indoctrinated with western values. The citizens who are not a part of this will see entry into this caste as the best form of social mobility and work to Americanize themselves, forming the middle class and upper middle class bureaucracy that stable nations depend on.

2. Pull out militarily and focus solely on humanitarian missions. Building schools, hospitals, disaster relief, Etc. Also don't prop up a unpopular dictator. Through this you expose the native population to western ideals and charity voluntarily and allow it to peacefully diffuse among the general population.

Either plan would take about 60-80 years to achieve.

>>34817585
>brah just kill and destroy everything rock and roll hoorah amrite?
are you trying to sound like a massive ape retard?

>>34821460
It's been over 25 years since the iron curtain fell and the Soviet Empire died.

>>34821634
>The citizens who are not a part of this will see entry into this caste as the best form of social mobility and work to Americanize themselves, forming the middle class and upper middle class bureaucracy that stable nations depend on.
or they turn against the 'foreign oppressor' and the 'collaborators'

>>34822531
That's dependant on how much of a despot you are.

>>34821358

That was the Patton plan. Get two centuries worth of wars done in a decade.

I doubt the public would have supported it though.

>>34821335
Go back to /pol/ you dumb bitch

>>34821433
>What was Operation Roaring Thunder
>What was Linebacker 1
>What was Linebacker 2

>>34821634
Option 1 is literally just colonization. The French tried that and it didn't work.

>>34817585
How about:
>bomb the fuck out of Hanoi from day 1 instead of waiting 7 fucking years
>invade the North within 6 months of US involvement
>war is won by 1967 with unconditional surrender of the North and no possibility of the reescalation of hostilities due to lolnoinfrastructure or leadership, tens of thousands fewer dead

>>34817585
Not with the mentality they had about war and the political scandals that happened.

>>34821174
We did all of that except invade Laos and Cambodia.

We just did it 7 years too late and it didn't work.

>>34824987
>Rolling Thunder
An extremely limited, politically hamstrung bombing campaign that did a whole lot of fuck-all other than giving certain planes a bad reputation because they were being flown into the densest AA network on the planet with zero support and poor intel.
>Linebacker 1
Occurred wholly over South Vietnam and was half-assed and 7 years too late.
>Linebacker 2
7 years too late, still hamstrung by not being allowed to target military or industrial targets in close proximity to civilian buildings (which were about 99% of valid targets), and largely ineffective.

Maybe you should at least google the campaigns you're talking about first.

>>34822345
And every year they find a new mass grave or previously unmentioned concentration camp and Stalin's murder toll goes up another couple tens of thousands.

I think by current best reckoning he's primarily responsible for the execution of more than twice as many people as Hitler (14.3 million), and moreover it spanned 11 nations and nearly 40 years and started at the tail end of WW1.

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>Observe SAM sites under construction
>Not allowed to bomb them because it might kill Russian advisors and escalate
>Planes get rekt by SA-2s
>Invent countermeasures

>>34825080
>study the Vietnam War for years
>think "this is an enormous clusterfuck"
>still wonder what would have happened if the US had moved into Laos before 1962 and forcibly constrained the communists to their borders

Is Ho actually a good commie? Che, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot get shit on a lot but people don't talk much about Ho or propaganda that his ideal is wrong.
Also what the fuck they were thinking when they made Ngo the president?

>>34826367
There were something like 200,000 political assassinations during the first Indochina War.

Ngo was about the only politician who hadn't worked for the French, the Japanese, or the communists, and hadn't been killed by them.

>>34817585

whats up with all these special ed kids spamming retarded threads?