Are there legal repercussions to use NATO-spec ball ammunition

>>34784503
You're more likely to hit bystanders. I wouldn't do it if you lived in a city but out in the sticks it won't matter much

What shitbox povertyguns do you own that choke on JHP? And why in fucking hell do you assume there might be legal trouble for shooting bog standard ball ammo? Are you fucked in the head?
Unfuck yourself, unfuck your guns, and fuck off.

>>34784503

There's no legal repurcussion in using ball ammo*, I don't see why you would when jacketed hollowpoint ammo exists though.


*If you hit the threat

>>34784521
There are about zero cases of that happening. Assuming it actually made it out of the first person it's not gonna have enough juice to do shit to the next person

>>34784988
Yes it absolutely can still kill someone after going through a body, especially if it doesn't hit bone. The best citation I can give you is that the FBI recommends no more than 18 inches of penetration, 9mm ball can penetrate nearly twice that. JHPS work reliably in modern handguns.
Go watch In Bruges

>>34784534
FMJ is more reliable, period.

>>34785128
In the same way that diesel engines go 500k miles while gas engines go 400k
It's an irrelevant distinction that you've made for no reason.

>>34785128
>>34785149
And it doesn't matter how well it runs if all it does is poke a neat little hole. You may trust regular ass pissweak ball to do the job, but I dont.

>>34785149
>he thinks 100k miles is an irrelevant distinction
>Earth is like, 8k miles at it's widest
>thinks being able to go around the widest part of the world 12.5 times is an irrelevant distinction

>>34785163
I take it you've used 9mm nato FMJ and failed to stop a threat?

>>34785169
not him, but it seems irrelevant considering most people wont even get to the 400k mark equivalent on their guns

>>34784503

No? Why the fuck would they be? There's better ammo for the job but there's no reason they would be illegal

>>34784988
You are retarded, or you obivously didnt look at all
https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloading/massad-ayoob-the-dangers-of-over-penetrating-bullets

>According to statistics released by the department (the NYPD), 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full metal jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects.
>"In that same period, 44 police officers were struck by gunfire using the old ammunition: 21 were hit directly, 2 were struck by bullets that ricocheted and 17 were struck by bullets that passed through other people"
>In round numbers, 52 percent of those “friendly fire” casualties were hit by bullets that apparently missed their intended targets. Forty-two percent passed through the bodies of the intended targets after the bullets struck the people they were aimed at.

You can use hardball in your guns, thats a personal decision, but saying that over-penetration isnt a thing proves you're too stupid to carry a gun.

>>34785364
Any cases of hollow points hitting innocent people?

>>34784503
>legal repercussions

absolutely

tyrone's defense lawyer will find out you use NATO spec ammo and immediately slur your character as some war mongering rambo

otherwise no

>>34785383
Do your own research fag, Im not google, Im just saying that saying that hardball wont kill a second person after going through the first is retarded.

I do know that JHP expansion is velocity dependent, and that +p or +p+ jhps almost always penetrate EVEN LESS because they expand even faster, which seems counterintuitive, but its proven all over youtube with ballistics gel

>>34785411
That's what I was thinking. Or if they survived, making the argument that the ammunition choice caused undue suffering due to lack of lethality.

>>34785416
It was a rhetorical question. I'm sure we both know the answer... Faggot.

>>34784988
>>34785364
BTFO

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Did they ever mention during the trial the type of ammo used in the Zim-Zam's gun? Or those tripfags that shot up the BLM riot?

>>34784503
Can't say I'd recommend it in town.

>>34785247

this

>legal repercussions for using a specific bullet when trying to kill somebody in self defense
>especially a generic NATO load of all things

rules of war only allow FMJ ammo for soft targets.

>>34785445
>That's what I was thinking

really those thoughts are not worth it because no matter what ammo you use when shooting somebody else no matter what you do unless the situation is mind numbingly obvious even to the local police officers involved then somebodys lawyer will complain

>>34785518
He used Cast Lead Round Nose reloads

>>34786388
I carry soft point because I figured it was going to give me better penetration than hollow points.

>>34785053
>Go watch In Bruges
Anon...

>>34785364
No mention of fatalities, no mention of where the pass through entered the body, no mention of distance between shooter, assailant and bystander, no mention of lawsuits afterward. Wow, real useful

>>34786723
Useful for making people buy 9mm for 80 cents a round.

>keep out of reach of children and incompetent people.
based as fuck

>>34786723
Im not your mother im not gonna hold your fucking hand when you cross the street, or spoon feed you instances where someone dies because some dipshit like you decided to carry hardball and save 5c on the bullet instead of use JHP.


>>34786756
A box of 50 federal HST 9mm is 18.99 at my local gunstore, while a box of 50 blazer 9mm is 14.99, Jacksonville FL.

>>34784503
NATO ball is basically 124gr +P. Fairly hot and definitely reliable. Shooting a person with it, be prepared to dump 3-5 rounds into the guy at a minimum.
These rounds would be better if they were truncated cones.
As for the legal ramifications, hell, it's surplus ball ammo. It's almost like you were not trying compared to nearly any other quality HP.

>>34784503
Why isn't NATO ammo packaged in steel cases like soviet ammo?

>>34787600
Because it isnt soviet ammo? Almost all western countries use reusable ammo cans with a seal and maybe packaging inside of that for the bullets, and almost all eastern countries (China, russia) use disposable spam cans

>>34788773
>>34787600

And those used cans, if not returned to the ammo supply point as part of dunnage, often get re-purposed to hold other water sensitive things. Hell, LTDS sensor packages (for dry gunnery runs. think tank laser tag) use re-purposed 7.62 cans for battery adapters.

>>34785411
And if your lawyer was worth a fuck they would point out the prohibited use of hollow points outlined in the hague convention, because legal battles aren't rock,paper, scissors

>>34786846
Who said I carry ball? Ya know it's possible to make an argument with being emotionally invested in one side or the other. I carry Gold Dots and XTPs, doesn't mean I would be afraid to use ball

put your trip back on zed

>>34789223
I dont think your a shithead for carrying ball, you can carry whatever the fuck you want, I think your a shithead because you dont believe or understand the fact that ball ammo over-penetrates is apparent and anyone with internet access can find countless examples where that is proven to harm people behind the target

>>34785621
I know a guy that is married to an attorney that works with assault/physical violence cases in CA.

Her advice is only use ball. The type of bullet will come up in court. If it any type of expanding or HP that will be brought up in court. It will also be brought up that you DECIDED to load your weapon with ammo that has enhanced lethality. Thus your intent was not to neutralize a threat but end a life.

I think if you have to draw a gun on somebody they have already nominated themselves to stop living. But this is how it works in court, especially with juries that think you should have shot them in the hand if they were trying to knife you.

>>34785416
JHPs are designed with velocity thresholds. Compare the HST to the XTP and it becomes apparent

>>34789308
I am not aware of a single court case where ammo type has been used for a conviction. Lots of shit like text on the inside of a dust cover, but even the fucking NYPD uses JHP at this point.

I'm happy to hear about the case that proves I'm wrong though.

>>34789856
The conviction wont be purely on ammo type. It will be used by the defense with other evidence they dig up/spin as proof that you are a cowboy/cop wannabe.

Best advice I have seen is use whatever the local PD uses.

>>34789308
really?
cite an example case

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>>34784503
The lethality difference between JHP 9mm and ball 9mm is absolutley trivial. Ball will get you better penetration, which will give you a better chance of sufficent penetration against lightly armored (heavy jackets) targets. JHP will get you a marginally increased chance of turning a non-vital hit into a vital hit.

Ball is going to have a higher risk of overpen, but it's 9mm, so it's going to have fuckall energy left and probably won't even make it through an interior wall. Still risk of lethal pass through. JHP will reduce this chance, but it can still through-and-through, but you also risk underpenetration, which might turn an otherwise lethal hit like a spine hit into a wounding hit instead, which will not neutralize the threat.

Niether will have a significant impact on your legal defense, unless you were using some meme JHP variant like "XTREME SHREDDER LETHAL FORCE" or whatever shit they try to peddle anymore.

Pistol caliber rounds simply lack the energy to reliably kill quickly without a CNS or other vital hit. This remains constant with ball, JHP, or anything else you might load.

>>34785053
Nigga you serious, go watch a movie to find out I'm telling the truth?

At least give an incident case or something.

>>34790767
>Niether will have a significant impact on your legal defense
Can you cite your source?

Can anybody recommend a specific 5.56 round for combat type use? Not home defense, so penetration and terminal ballistics are king.

>>34784503
Assuming you don't overpenetrate your enemy and injure somebody behind him, no. FMJ ammo is legal in all 50 states.

>>34790964

care to cite yours? cite one precedent where bullet choice had any effect on the verdict, or for that matter, where having punisher grips, MOLDY LABIA, stupid engravings, fancy colors and go-fast stripes had any effect on a verdict.

>>34790633
Is there any PD out there not using JHP at this point though? Fuck man, Texas state police shoot .357 Sig.

Is the court room even ready for bottleneck pistol cartridges?

>>34790633
The only thing I can say against that is I remember all the shit people talked about Zim Zam being a wannabe cop and I can see that coming to get you if it came up. I'd say have a cop take the stand and ask them what use JHP has. They would have no choice but to fuck over the DAs argument. Either that or the DA would object to the line of questioning and expose themselves as dishonest.

>>34784503
There are no legal repercussions.

>>34791057
Different anon, and zero cases of bullet choice, or hand loaded ammo, or any of that other tripe.

But Phillip Bradsford got fired, not for shooting an inebriated unarmed man who kept reaching for his waist, but for policy violations including unsatisfactory behavior and having a dust cover with the inscription 'You're fucked."

I haven't seen the video, so no idea if it was a justified shooting or not. But IMO, the shooting wouldn't have made national news without that inscription.

>>34787212
Shouldn't one be prepared to drop 3-5 rounds in a target regardless of loading?

>>34789308
Maybe in CA, but if you own guns and you live in CA you're doing something wrong tee bee aitch fampai

>>34784503
Ball ammo is ball ammo dude.

>>34791057
>https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/the-law-of-little-things/
>The guest of honor in a capital murder trial had a bumper sticker which read: “I’m the person your mother warned you about.” This was allowed as evidence in the penalty phase, as justification for the defendant’s execution. There was uncontroverted evidence that the bumper sticker was on the car when it was purchased.

>It was allowed in deliberations regarding the defendant’s life or death because: “The bumper sticker was evidence of the representations appellant chose to make about himself whether he placed the sticker on the bumper or merely did not remove it after purchase.”4 This case should make one rethink T-shirt purchases at gun shows and macho signs such as “Trespassers Will be Shot, Survivors Will be Shot Again.”

EVERYTHING will be used against you in court. It will the be the dirtiest fight you have ever fought if the DA is out for blood.

>>34791573
Good thing I pretend to be ultra liberal at school and work when it comes up and dont otherwise advertise any of my views except here.

Gas the blacks, race war now am I right?

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>>34784503
>keep out of reach of children and incompetent people
Holy fuck

>>34791573
Uh huh. State vs Six. You don't even need the year on that one.

I'll link the rest of that case, because you're going to have one hell of a time proving that the bumper sticker had one single iota of bearing on the sentencing verdict.

http://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/1991/70958-0.html

You could have went with #14 on that list, where appellate courts tacked on reasoning to otherwise straightforward cases that hollow point ammo constituted a desire to kill. Not a single one of those 3 appellate cases was self defense related.