Why don't guns have heat sinks? Not like Mss Effect meme

>>34706230
Guns do have heat sinks, it's called brass and it's the reason caseless still hasn't gone anywhere.

Most guns don't shoot fast enough for it to be a problem and the ones that do usually have replaceable barrels.

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good idea

>>34706243
what if you gave a caseless ammo gun a ribbed barrel for her pleasure and more vents than your local cloaca festival then

>>34706245
yeah thats what im tolkein about

>>34706244
No to mention how expensive it is to take all the extra time machining in all these fancy ribs and fins and shit. Military arms are lowest-bidder garbage, every penny that can be saved is.

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>>34706230
Most guns don't have the firing schedules to require a big heat sink.The ones that do use quick change barrels instead. It's rarely worth the extra weight and bulk. However, they are made.


>https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XCOLTIARURG&name=Prototype+Colt+IAR+.223%2F5.56+Barreled+Upper+Receiver&search=upper

>>34706293
>No to mention how expensive it is to take all the extra time machining in all these fancy ribs and fins and shit.
dude what theyre made by machines now, shit'd take an extra like two minutes of manufacturing

>>34706256
Would still overheat at the breach. That's the real benefit of the heat sink effect as everyone else has said the barrel doesn't care unless you're going full retard.

>>34706230

They do exist but depending on how it's done, it either means adding more weight to the barrel (generally unacceptable) or weakening the barrel if they shave off bits of the barrel to form the dimples/ridges/whathaveyou. Note this applies to air-cooled firearms (which is everything modern)

The only other heat sink known is water-cooling and I'm sure we all how steamy that is.

The only bypass is making a Gatling gun with all the barrels in place.

>>34706326
>Would still overheat at the breach.
could the whole firing path not be fitted with sticky-out bits?

>full retard
well obviously im talking about sustained automatic fire trying to rival chainguns and autocannons, not single shots

>>34706344
>The only bypass is making a Gatling gun with all the barrels in place.
well i figured that, like a multi barreled gatling gun is presumably also passively cooled by repeatedly moving the barrel out of the warmed-up air in addition to just swapping barrels entirely, a heatsink-like solution would allow for more cooling than conventional barrels that are just straight cut normal tubes (rifling, threading, etc aside)

allowing, say, the equivalent of an LMG or even MMG to not require extra barrels be swapped in protracted firefights

maybe even have a little fan to run fresh air down the channels of the heatsink to replace the still, warmed up air with ambient temperature fresh air from somewhere not directly next to this tube that keeps passing hot sulphurous and carbony gases down it

>>34706230
JP Thermal Dissipator™

>>34706230
It's called the barrel, bolt, bullet and casing.

Also back in WW1 where sustained fire was a larger part of doctrine, we used to fit a metal case (called a jacket) over the barrel of machineguns, then fill that metal case with water, this was called water cooling. It would allow a machinegun to pretty much fire indefinitely, as long as you kept supplying ammunition, water and replacement barrels. It also allowed those barrels to be very thin, as all the heat was taken care of by the water.

Long bouts of sustained fire isn't really thought of as practical anymore, and any automatic weapon which will need to fire long bursts will feature a thick barrel (like on an M2HB), quick-replacement barrels (like on an M60, M240B, BREN or MG3), or be mounted to a vehicle in some manner and feature multiple barrels in a rotating assembly (M134, M61, etc). Most weapons these days, even automatic ones, don't tend to be employed in such a way that you fire it so that heat becomes a significant problem. Some machineguns feature ribbing on their barrels, some don't.

>I just mean some ribbing or dimpling on barrels to increase the outside surface area so it can dissipate heat better and have more room to expand as it heats so accuracy isn't as affected and it can release more heat over time.
You sound like the kind of guy who lives on arfcom and buys any new gadget marketed to him.

>>34706256
>more vents than your local cloaca festival then
holy shit

>>34706325
That's still extra wear on the machining and extra time spent. Also the electricity to run those machines doesn't come from nowhere.

>>34706325
>confirmed for having never worked in a machine shop.

>>34706711
>You sound like the kind of guy who lives on arfcom and buys any new gadget marketed to him.
quite the opposite, i hate spending money, hate AR15s, am canadian, and havent gotten a PAL because I hate spending money (its like a whole EIGHTY dollars for 2 years of gun ownership can u believe that)

ive heard of water cooling ofc but i never thought of replaceable jackets over quick-swap barrels or dedicated cooling, though. that is an interesting concept, though a little too close to Mass Effect for my liking and seems like it would be not as effective as more dedicated methods (like water or other active cooling, swapping barrels, or multiple barrels)

>>34706765
>>34706750
even lathing it by hand would take a trivial amount of time if its just simple ribbing forming discs perpindicular to the barrel

im not sure why you think cutting metal is some kind of arcane art that takes years per part

like shit you could even just cast a jacket and braze it on

>>34706849
> that is an interesting concept, though a little too close to Mass Effect for my liking
My brain needs a heat sink right fuckin now

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>>34706711
>back in WW1
>we used to

>>34706230
They do make dimples on AR15 barrels. It's gucci shit that's of dubious value, but they do it.

>>34706849
>arcane art that takes years
As opposed to your belief that it is an arcane art that takes "2 mins". Like I said you have clearly never worked in a machine shop.

>>34706230
>ribbing or dimpling on barrels to increase the outside surface area
They already have fluting.

>>34706230
>what are brass casings
>what is an AR15 barrel nut
>what is an AR15 handguard

>>34706256
>more vents than your local cloaca festival then

WEW LADS

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What is the Lewis gun

>>34706899
>>what is an AR15 handguard
a heat shield and not a heat sink
theyre even shiny aluminum on the inside so as to reflect heat back inward towards the barrel (and away from the operator)

and guns still get hot even ejecting hot brass, and worse specific heat materials are coming into vogue for casings (polymer, steel, etc)

>>34706938
wasnt that water cooled? same idea of "use a heat sink" but i mean one made of metal, not cycling fluid

>>34706893
>fluting
FUCK i FORGOT that EXISTS that is exactly what im talking about. wow. nilhi novi something sole i guess

>>34706325
>shit'd take an extra like two minutes of manufacturing
No.

>>34706993
"I have never touched a lathe": the post: on ice

>>34706849
>you could even just cast a jacket and braze it on
I'd like to think we're not Remington.

>>34707008
Yes, it is clear that you have not. Hence my statement of "no".
>Casting a jacket and then brazing it on
Holy shit that's retarded.

>>34706750
wear on the machines +
extra time paying workers +
tooling cost (cutters) +
electricity to run the machines +
possibly thicker blanks to begin with

might even need more machines to keep up with demand

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>>34706230
A) Water cooled is better for extreme heat conditions

B) The 1920s called they want their design philosophy back. Pic related.

>>34707058
why do americans think that metal working is some horrid arcane art that destroys machines and takes souls away?

literally all it would take is one jig and a few seconds per cut to flute a barrel on a mill or saw, and casting is about as easy as it gets if you want to really nigger-rig it and just attach it at the end (which isnt even bad in this case, since it's a nonmoving nonstructural part)

>>34707055
it's cheap and jank but this is america, things are allowed to be cheap and jank

obviously, milling it from one part would be the more Quality option but an attached jacket would be suitable for something intended for a cheaper/poorer audience

>>34707098
there is nothing about this rifle that doesnt get me a little wet on the dick.

>>34707106
fluting like this barrel is: >>34707098
is inferior to modern fluting patterns, which they will have to stick the barrel in a CNC mill for


Metal working is not hard, but saying "why not make X more expensive" isn't always the best decision.

Attaching a jacket will fuck up precision, most likely. Not to mention there clearly isn't enough military demand for fluted barrels to justify the cost.

If the military wants more heat resistance they just make it thicker. Cheaper and just as, if not more effective.

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>>34706230
Trying to passively cool a rifle barrel isn't going to do much even when trying to increase the surface area. The temperatures are simply too much to be cooled without a way to actively cool it. Water cooling is the defacto gold standard in that regard, but just like any other cooling option it will add weight and bulk.

>>34707146
>"why not make X more expensive"
considering it's already a captive market where people are willing to drop $1200 on a laser pointer, the added cost of milling will probably make the rifle ten times as expensive at market and make the company millions more than they would have not fluting the barrel

like zombie garbage or camo paintjobs, green paint is more expensive than not using paint at all, but a 4$ can of spray paint and 3 minutes bubba-ing out makes your rifle worth an extra $250 on ArmsList, and its not like The Military is unwilling to spend money, a C7 or M16 is vastly more expensive per unit than an equivalent AR15 save for full auto functionality, and being full-auto isnt exactly ten grand per unit's worth of tooling to implement

not to mention that added cost is hardly a reason to say that a concept is itself unviable in a physical sense

if anything, id assume that the military doesnt care about barrel heat because the doctrine just doesnt make it an issue, as >>34706244 and >>34706303 imply and >>34706711 explicitly states

but still, I thought it to be an interesting engineering concern, and apparently fluted barrels do exist and are popular among hobby precision shooters and actual snipers alike, so apparently its not as retarded a concept as armchair engineers believe

>>34706977
Can you fucking read or did your nigger parents and inner city public schooling not teach you anything? It says perfectly well on the diagram I posted that the muzzle device caused air to flow through the tube which had heat sinks in it. Read before you post

>>34707235
i honestly did not even click the image

>>34706869
>New fag does know that the immortal wandering Jew post on /k/ as he wanders from one battlefield to another.

>>34707215
There are fluted barrels on the market though, what are you bitching about?

Why aren't there more of them? In a world of $500 functional basic bitch AR-15s, why not more fluted barrels?

Maybe consumers aren't very well informed.

I never made any claims about the ineffectiveness of fluting, only that the rings style on that gun is inferior to length-wise slotting or dimple patterns.

As stated previously, military won't pay for fancy fluting they'll just slap a heavier barrel on it for the low cost.

>>34707271
Explains alot

>>34707215
I would also like to add you certainly got defense quick, almost like you have an agenda here.

>buy my fluted barrels, peasants!

>>34707302
yes anon, every thread where you get called a reactionary idiot is trying to sell you something, and its not just that youre a reactionary idiot

>>34706293
More than likely the fins would be made as a subassembly that would be brazed onto the barrel

there is literally nothing wrong with brazing

>>34706325
When you make 10000 rifles that's 20000 minutes you had to waste, I wish summer would end already

>>34707215
The barrels wouldn't be fluted. The cooling fins would be made into a subassembly, then brazed onto the barrel.

>>34707344
Not even that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvWmH3Dr52o

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>>34706230
But they do.

>>34707344
>>34707381
i dont even give a shit ebcause the core concept is "increase the surface area for cooling purposes" and the exact details of the manufacturing that go into it or cost thereof are irrelevant

>>34707106
>why do americans
Well of course you're a fucking idiot foreigner who arrogantly won't take answers presented to him.

>>34707416
thanks niqqa

>>34707441
youre the ones saying its literally impossible to work metal in a cost effective way

>>34707461
No, we said it was retarded and that the added cost was one of many reasons it's not done today. See also: >>34706711 where I fucking tell you directly to your face that heat isn't an issue for 90% of all guns used and that for the ones that do we have better systems.

>>34707479
>No, we said it was retarded and that the added cost was one of many reasons it's not done today.
except there are apparently both modern products on the modern market that are exactly that, and some guns throughout history have had similar features

it soulds like youre really just scared of lathes or mills or something and dont understand that metal is just another material that can be worked, albeit with a bit more difficulty than wood or plastic

>>34707487
We went over this, most guns don't have a concern for heat, and those that do handle it better.

There exist fancy dimpled, fluted and finned barrels as aftermarket items for various guns, but in the grand scheme of things, they make no actual difference and that's why they're not a standard.

Since it's not a useful feature, many would prefer not spending the extra money to have it done.

>>34707501
you misunderstand my point; I understand that going doctrine makes that level of heat management unnecessary, and where it is necessary, more cost-effective solutions exist.

I'm making fun of you for your >implying that to flute a barrel is any harder than any other aspect of manufacturing a gun

>>34707325
Me the reactionary?

I've been perfectly restrained in my answers, at some point you just started straw-manning me.

>>34706230
The answer is that gun manufacturers are retards and don't want to rock the boat with interesting new designs.

Instead they keep shitting out virtual copies with minor differences every year.

>>34706303
Increasing the surface area doesn't increase bulk

It would actually reduce it significantly

>>34707383
Are you saying you think it's a good idea to roll threads/flutes onto a gun barrel?

>>34707461
>youre the ones saying its literally impossible to work metal in a cost effective way

We said no such thing.

I said the military will just buy a thicker barrel and consumers aren't that interested in it, but they do exist.

Everything else you straw-manned out of fucking nowhere.

>>34707635
>strawman
tripfag up above is off saying that it'd take significant extra time to mill/lathe/whatever and that brazing a jacket is necessarily bad, and some non-tripfag, probably you, went off about how much extra wear on the machines it is and that you "might even need more machines to keep up with demand"

i know american manufacturing fell from grace a little bit but its really not that hard to carve metal. you might not be able to do it with a pen knife, but trust me, there's ways.

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>>34707664
>i know american manufacturing fell from grace a little bit but its really not that hard to carve metal. you might not be able to do it with a pen knife, but trust me, there's ways.

Yes and those ways add extra cost that most consumers and the military is not willing to pay for.

I'm surprised it appears that you don't understand how capitalism works... What country are you from, again?

>>34707623
We're talking about two different things.

>>34707794
>cost of manufacturing something affects physics
i think you might be illiterate or something

>>34707839
So you're learning disabled now?

Is English your first language?

>>34707630
I didn't say it was the ideal way, but it is one of the more cost effective ways to add some sort of passive cooling to a barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRAF4cXDPD4

>>34707980
that would probably require some serious stress-relieving afterward, introducing yet more cost and time.

Did you see the inrange video a couple days ago about properly stress-relieved barrels?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTovPt4weIs

It has been done in the past. You can purchase a JP heat sink to put on an AR, presently, in fact, although they don't sell well because they're not really worth the weight for most people.

Basically all users and manufacturers have deemed it not worth the cost. Even using your obviously low ball figure of two minutes, that's a significant investment in time and resources on a production run of, say, 50,000 guns for a benefit that is dubious.
Regardless of your dismissiveness, EVERY thing you do to a piece of metal has an opportunity cost; 2 minutes to do something is 2 minutes you could spent making another barrel. That cost has been deemed unnecessary. Out of all of this, "opportunity cost" is probably the thing you should be googling now. That is, assuming you actually want to learn something, and not just jack off to how much smarter you are because you had the same idea Isaac Lewis had in 1911.

Guns are a relatively mature technology, basically every permutation has been tried at some point. Barrel fins didn't make the cut. It is cheaper and almost as effective to just make the barrel heavier.

TL;DR: It's been tried. Turned out to not be worth it as other solutions solve the problem better for the end users.

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>>34706726
>>34706915
plz explain

>>34708039
Seconded I don't get it

>>34708017
Not really. As long as it's a proper blank before being rifled there shouldn't be any problems with stress at all. The issues with stress in the barrel comes from removal of material, something which isn't done during cold rolling.

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>>34706230
water cooled Winchester
but it adds weight
the browning m2 and m1919 were covered to air cooling
>>34706245
like Japanese mg
Type 99 92 11

>>34708039
reptiles, fish, birds, and amphibians have a cloaca, a sort of all-purpose hole for piss, shit, and cum, which is also known as a "vent"

>>34708099
I don't have the experience to go into detail about the problems introduced but I am willing to bet it will cause a headache in that department.

>In cold rotary forming, such as screw threads, it is well
known that the fatigue strength of rolled products increases
than that of blank material. While Kawai [12] reported that the
profile forming ratio in groove rolling affects the fatigue
strength of groove-rolled products, it has been considered that
the fatigue strength of rolled products is dependent on the
strain-hardening of material and the residual stress built up
during the rolling process.

http://web.firat.edu.tr/iats/cd/subjects/Manufacturing/MTE-47.pdf


>threads are rolled because the stress introduced into the threads make them stronger

An industry person to answer these questions would be fantastic. Maybe inrangetv will ask Faxxon?

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>>34708183

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>>34706230
The Lewis gun looked the way it did because it had a heatsink under the shroud. When a round fired the gases would pull air from the back, over the fins, and out the front.

>>34706711
>It's called the barrel, bolt, bullet and casing.
What happened to the Oxford comma? It's superior in every regard.

>>34708251
not pictured: the mule required to carry it

>>34706711
You talk like a faggot and your shits all retarded

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>>34708208
Interesting...

I wonder if adding non-lateral stresses to a barrel might increase radial rigidity if they can be applied deep enough?

Also interesting, check out the stress effects of deep thread rolling. Fucking barrel might explode into splinters if left like that.

>>34708265
It weighed 28 lbs. 2 lbs more than a current 240b

>>34708294
fair enough. I don't wanna hump around either desu

>>34708294
Sorry thats the 240g. The 240b weighs the same.

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>>34706230
Steyr's still have them.

And pretty much every coaxial gun in an armored vehicle.

>>34706270
>>34706230
It's expensive,, and for non full-auto guns it's not necessary.

Also it's not that effective because steel isn't the best thermal conductor.
something like >>34707416 probably works way better and is cheaper

>>34708287
>>34708208
I think it would be interesting to see the effect of a steel barrel liner with crappy metal around it with loads of the thread rolled stresses imparted into it.

Not sure aluminum would be the right material choice to go around the liner, though.

>>34706230
Some do. The Lewis Machinegun has a bigass heatsink wrapped around the barrel.

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>>34708341
(dushka barrel)

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>>34708375
(Hungarian PKM barrel)

This part is normally covered by a barrel shroud, the shoulder thing that goes up.

>>34706230
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.5_hs.php

You're welcome.

>>34708372
It's more of a radiator.

>>34708294
that's pretty impressive for a WWI machine gun, those mofos were usually in the range of 50lb

>>34710064
agreed

>>34710064
They're not flawless, but of all portable 'light machineguns' of WW1, the Lewis was probably the best, followed by the BAR (which would later be downgraded in time for WW2 because the US Ordnance Department decided they were gonna bolt a bunch of useless shit onto it).

>>34706243
look up 9mm AUPO

>>34706243
>>34706326
Except they don't. Caseless had a problem with cookoffs because bare propellant touched the hot chamber, not because of any structural issues with the firearm itself. You solve it by increasing the ignition temperature of the propellant.

How hot do you think casings are when they come out to remove a significant amount of heat from the system?

>>34708262
The same thing that happened to guys like Gary Cooper, the strong, silent type.

>>34711061
So what exactly was the point with that if it does everything that regular cased 9mm Luger already did?

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>>34706230
Like attached to the barrel? Cuz this looks like a thing already, along with cooling fins.

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>>34706230

This seems like a good place to ask. Why did water cooled machine guns fall out of favor, in place of aircooled weapons? Was it a change in doctrine?

>>34712026
>>34712026
Yes. Nobody needs to use machine guns as ersatz artillery, firing for hours on end any more. Even in WWI the need for a lighweight MOBILE machinegun was recognised and delivered. Even on vehicle mounted machine guns where the weight and mobility problems are non-existent, we simply don't fire enough to need a water jacket. And of course replaceable barrels make it almost a moot point.

>>34712193
So changes in doctrine favored short portables bursts over long sustained fire?