If the Germans had M4s instead of Kar98s in WW2 would anything

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>>34695295
No for the same reason the stg44 didn't change the war, the guns were great but the allies were bombing the shit of their factories and supply lines so they couldn't get the ammo to the front and since this was a brand new cartridge they didn't have existing stores of it as would presumably be the case for 5.56x45mm.

Small arms don't win wars

Could they even make M4s? Did they have the required metallurgy and industry to mass produce them?

I would agree. I'd also contend that if the US used falling blocks and 1858s instead of M1s and 1911s there would be no change in outcome other than a few more dead GIs.

Yes
They would have M4s instead of Kar98s

>>34695295
No. Germany didn't have the industrial capacity or bomber range to ever beat the US.

>>34695355
No.

>>34695295
When? Do they get them in 1933? 1939? 1945?
If they have time to look at it and use the tech in a STG it would change a bit, maybe Stalingrad is won.
What many here underestimated is the desire for peace by the home front of the allies. The UK and US population only stayed in the war because of massive propaganda. There was quite a desire for peace.
>Inb4 occupied European nations
Low countries & France actually liked the Nazis, contrary to belief. The resistance was nothing but commies and Jews.
>Inb4 generalplan ost
Did not exist and every action (Slavic SS/ ahnenpass) and ideological book (mein kampf/ myth of the 20th) says it didn't

>>34696230
Let's say they have them in 1933.

if the germans had been issued m4s, the production scheme would probably have been more rationalized, since there would have been no need for both the pz.iii and pz.iv; the m4 could handle both roles.

>>34696829
In 1933?
Assuming the Nazis take the M4 apart and build a STG M4 for domestic production, and the majority of infantry units get them.
Assuming the rest of the war kicks off in the same manner, the Nazis roflstomp in the first years of the war, completely outclassing the other armies.
One could assume that their infantry doctrine would change, per design of the reichswehr. This would make a single soldier much more effective, ensuring a better use of their manpower.
The roflstomp combined with the relatively small military may force the French to the peace table, and even the British, depending on the status of the BEF (captured/retreated/ killed?)

Nazi Germany could, if they impress enough, get a peace in the west, making them able to focus on the east.

>>34695295
Sorta understanding where you're coming from, but it'd entail a few other things along side it. The Germans would never adopt the m4 the way it was presented to them, they'd definitely upsize the caliber for starters, then probably incorporate their autism alongside typical german mechanisms, and then they'd also consider using the platform in other weapons too.
Introduction in 1933, would mean it would see at least limited use in the spanish civil war and it could be copied by the other armies of the time.
It would most likely prolong the second world war, not handing Germany a victory, only strategic factors can hand you a victory.

german infantry and squad where superior in every way to the allies thay where held back by the kar98s theriotecoly this would make air raids far more common a action against them (even moar than it was) so not much should have changed

>>34695295
they'd've had m4s instead of kar98s, anon you just answered your own question

>>34697193
This makes sense to me. Basically what I'm getting at is at what level of small arm tech can really swing a battle, a front, a war?

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>>34697937
It can't. The logistical burden presented by rifles are too miniscule to make a difference. Their role in combat is too minimal to matter. If germany hadn't made any of it's blunders (Dunkirk, Kursk, fighting on the western front ever, etc.) it may have won
also, the krauts didn't have the electricity to crank out enough aluminum for m4s

So they can run out of ammo sooner?

>>34697793
Anon, this is an English board.

>>34695295
of course not, .223 is a wounding round that is only good for squirrel hunting and is insufficient for stopping Americans. The only difference would have been their guns jamming more frequently as the US troops valiantly marched with erections towards their women.

The better question is how things would have changed if the French had the FAMAS instead of the Maginot Line.

>>34698087
That's actually interesting. If the French had the FAMAS and radios in their tanks what would be more valuable?

>>34697990
If Hitler had stopped at France and focused entirely on Russia, history would have been much different.

>>34695295
>It's another wehraboo what if? thread

The Germans already lost the war before even engaging, it was just Allied reluctance that allowed them to get so far. Even Hitler admitted marching into the Rhineland in 1937 was the biggest gamble of his career.

>>34698136
>If ___ had ___ things would be different.
Thanks for dropping by captain obvious.

>>34698155
>lost the war before even engaging
Either you're Sun Tzu or retarded.

>>34698219
They lost the moment Hitler declared war on the US

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>>34698954
>WWII started when Germany declared war on the US in 1941

>>34695332
If the Germans had radar guided AA would that have made a difference?

>>34699191

The only parts of it that mattered started in 1941. Germany attacking the slavshits, and Japan attacking based USA. Get your weak phony war 39-40 shit out of here.

>>34695348
Different small arms of a same generation don't impact the outcome of the war.
But it's different if there is a generational gap between the guns compared.
Extreme example: the impact of a single AR15 on the battlefield in 1815.

>>34696230
>denying generalplan ost
>when the nazis didn't even deny generalplan ost
wat

>>34695332
and cities and farms

>>34695348
USA had superior small arms with a Semi-auto service rifle when everyone else had bolt actions.

>>34702828
logistically there is no reason to assume 5.56 cartridges couldn't be reloaded with era powder and primers. You might see something other than copper jacketed bullets.

Black powder AR-15 is just neat.

>>34696829
Then they steamroll all of mainland Europe, cut a peace agreement with Britain which keeps the US out of the war (or at least out of the western theater), they are able to focus 90% of their assets on Russia, earlier, and take Moscow and the oil fields.

With the UK and US sitting out the war all they have to do is not be totally barbaric occupiers for 5 years and they own all of mainland Europe and a lot of Asia and become a world superpower both militarily and economicaly.

>>34700696
They did have radar guided AA, in fact it was quite sophiticated and most bombing approaches ended up being pretty complicated to get around the worst of it. If you flew straight and level for a couple of minutes their radar could direct the flak guns to put rounds into a very small box around a formation. The only way you could significanty improve on it would be to give them more accurate radars and better computers to do the calculations faster, since part of what allowed bombers to evade guided flak was the time taken calculating their path and the corresponding firing angles for each abttery to put rounds onto it.

>>34703659
Antebellum-fags couldn't make the barrel last longer than a single battle with all the lead fouling and blackpowder shitting up the AR. The smoke screen would be a sight to see though

>>34703700
And the US developed counter tactics of changing speed, direction and altitude because the flak still has flight time plus the command delay for targeting updates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywzk73ahf00
Skip to 5:00

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>>34695295

>>34696829

Are we assuming that Hitler is still doped up on dozens of medicines daily by a quack fat fuck doctor? Because ultimately that's why they lost; dude lost his marbles.

>>34703855
>allies used amphetamines as combat drugs
>axis used methamphetamines as combat drugs
>adderal is legal
>meth is not
think about it

>>34703855

this totally

some marginal improvement in rifle technology is not enough to overcome serious major total screwups from the top

>>34703591
It does not exist, the only proof for it is a microfilm scan of Nazi documents, unfindable ofc, and a slavic book, unfindable ofc.
Proof against is
>Mein kampf
>Myth of the twentieth century
>Table talks
>Slavic SS
>Slavs with Ahnepaß