Full analysis of the Leopard 2A4TR in Syria https://misterx

>>34664581
>so can we all agree that Leopard is the worst MBT right now
No this is indisputably Challenger.

tldr

>>34664691
Everybody keeps saying this.

> Can handle sleeper slopes than Leopard
> Gun has similar penetration by not being limited to tungsten rounds despite being two part and rifled.
> Armor actually works

Worst without a doubt would be T90

>>34664581

It's not the Leo's fault that the Turks can't into combined arms tactics.

If I understand correctly, those incompetent jackasses deployed their MBTs without supporting infantry. Given that anti-tank missiles had been widely distributed to both American- and Russian-supported fighters at that point, they were begging to take some TOWs and/or MILANs up the ass.

The whole point of that blog post was to criticize the Turks' blatant disregard for fundamental panzer tactics.

>>34664854
>Gun has similar penetration by not being limited to tungsten rounds despite being two part and rifled.
WRONG. Sad.

>>34664854
T90 is undefeated
stay mad and proceed to shove ancient HESH shells up your ass britcuck

>>34664864
Doing any sort of analysis based off of wars in the middle east is a mistake. He should do one based off the Abrams we gave to Iraq at the end of occupation, and talk about how that's the worst tank in the world for being defeated by ISIS.

>>34664868
>WRONG. Sad.
Its more accurate and:

Challenger with L30A1 firing L27 CHARM3 will penetrate 720mm RHAe 100% of the time
Leopard with L55 firing DM53 will penetrate 740mm RHAe 50% of the time.

Rumors persist that
CHARM3 penetrated better at ranges less than 1700 and in arcing fire
L28 round can penetrate 770mm RHAe

>>34664899
>T90 is undefeated
So is challenger.

The only loss was a one in a million shot, and blue on blue at that.

>>34664854
>> Gun has similar penetration
Stopped reading here.

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>>34664581
Who is the liteal retard who wrote that?
Oh no a tank from 40 years ago can't take a side hit from HEAT round cause it was made to duke it out head on hull down position,where sirvival depends eniterly on who shoots first, you know just like every other freakin tank in the world.
I'm fucking tired from this shit - everytime time some retard, who would be stuck commanding a McDonnalds shift if it wasn't for his uncle or something get's the bright idea "Gee, why don't we put a 45+ ton vehicle designed to spearhead assaults across open land into a fuckin city - that's a good idea".
And ofcourse when they fuckup it's the tank's fault, not the offices zero understaning of basic armored tactics.

>>34664956
Please don't read peoples silly estimates that have to speculate on muzzle velocity, weight and penetrator length.

read>>34664950

>>34664864
Not only that but the Turks used them as stationary gun emplacement on a fucking hill if i'm correct, with no forward observer post.

>>34664956
We litteraly have this argument every week.

Last week we had it twice. and the myth was busted open.

DM53 is utter garbage.

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>>34664864
thats what we get after we choose to use fsa militants instead of mechanized escort

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>>34664854
>Worst without a doubt would be T90
the T-90 was operate by Arab and still come out better than anything else

even the beat up captured tank work remarkable well in terrorist hand

>>34664950
>Challenger with L30A1 firing L27 CHARM3 will penetrate 720mm RHAe 100% of the time
>Citation needed

Estimations by penetrator size published in open sources and Oddermatt equation gives around 450mm RHA penetration.
>can't be! to low! muh 700mm
Deal with it.

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>>34665037

>>34664999
Can confirm, several pictures depicting Leo2 carcasses have shown that the Turk are stupid enough to park their tanks on top of hill and silhouette them against the sky.

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>>34665037
>>34665061
2/2
370mil with 60 degree slope.

Same as M829A2 which is 720-730mm on flat surface RHAe

You deal with it.

>>34665073
That's what happens when you lobotomize your officer corps, I guess.

>>34665037
>Estimations by penetrator size published in open sources and Oddermatt equation gives around 450mm RHA penetration.
Estimations so bad that they had to estimate penetrator weight, length and muzzle velocity!

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>>34665073

>>34665089
>370mil with 60 degree slope.
>no information about initial velocity and penetrator size
These guesstimates are 130% worse than you can do yourself.

>>34665037
>>34664956
The DM53 performed so badly they increased the L44 to 55 calibers.

Leopard 2 is a cuck tank for cuck countries that think using DU is a bad idea.

>>34665159
real man use ATGM

>>34665159

Literally this,

What kind of fucking cuckoldry forces a country to use inferior materials just to satisfy some imagined faggot bonus points.

The problem with the Chally 2 isn't its combat performance, it's the lack of ammo compatibility and the resulting logistical problems which result.

>>34664854
>Gun has similar penetration

To ammo from the 90's.

>>34665180
ATGMs are only useful for IFVs, on MBTs they're little more of a knickknack

>>34665194
L55 has so much potential look at American ammo from L44s, it outperforms.

>>34665195
>ammo compatibility and the resulting logistical problems which result.
No NATO forces have ever shared MBT rounds in combat conditions.

Beside british logistics are odd... they rarely rely on other countries to do their lifting.

>>34665210
Did you read the thread?

>>34665210
Citation needed.

>>34665230
>on MBTs they're little more of a knickknack
one Leclerc was took out of action in Yemen by a 70s Soviet ATGM

if it cann't pen, the war head still mission kill the tank

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>>34664899
>t-90 is undefeated

>>34665230
>Did you read the thread?

The one with the Bong that ignored how short and fat CHARM 3 is, and didn't know it was fin stabilized?

>>34665292
that tank was undamaged

the fire was outside the tank, and the retard Hezbollah left it to burn.

>>34665295
>and didn't know it was fin stabilized?
All tank rounds are spin stabilized.

Challenger 2 differs by use of an obturation ring that doesn't prevent spin, but simply reduces it, this means its stabilized before it leaves the tube.

>>34665295
He means the penetration figures posted here.>>34665061 >>34665089

>>34665343
fin stabilized =/= spin stabilized

fin stabilized HEAT and APFSDS don't spin

>>34665343
>All tank rounds are spin stabilized.

What does APFSDS stand for?

>>34665343
>>34665369
forgot to add

spin reduce penetration

>>34665362
You mean the charts that say it has similar penetration to a round from 1992?

>>34665369
>>34665370
>>34665378

My bad i meant fin.

THe original challenger rounds were true APFSDS hence the reason they were called FIN.

Like i said challenger 2 uses a combination of spin and fin

>>34665382
CHARM 3 only entered service 2001 or 2002.

>>34665295
>how short and fat
The dimensions have never been released, they don't even put them out to show.

Charm1 Had similar dimensions to contemporaries. Its probably the case that it has similar dimensions to other MBT rounds.

>>34665393
>combination of spin and fin
that is just weird

>>34665462
Indeed it is, the round does suffer from velocity fall off at 1700m on flat trajectories though. as a result of build up in Fin stabilized spin causing air resistance.

Very odd gun and very odd ammo.

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>>34665425
>Its probably the case that it has similar dimensions to other MBT rounds.
Overdose on tea, bong.

>>34665531
> SHOT INSTRUCTIONAL L26
Thats CHARM1

L27a1 CHARM3 is orange base.

Round on the left is either L28 or L29

>>34665555
>L29
Indeed. TP version of CHARM3

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How short dicked bongs can even compete?

>>34665615
> Using armoured warfare as a source.
the Penetration goes right to the base of that.

You're also comparing DU to tungsten in the DM53.

Its suggested to be 650mm

>>34665615
Look at the amount of appellant the CR2 uses, and compare that to a DM53 or M289

>>34665669
That image existed before Armored Warfare was a thing.

>>34665615
>max lenght
>lenght

>>34665712
> reverse image search.
Image did not exist before april 2016

>>34665675
Bag charge length 700mm

Jesus H christ.

>>34665073
And IED disables says literally nothing; they could be 5 AT mines jerry-rigged together or a firecracker. Nobody knows.

>>34665669
>You're also comparing DU to tungsten in the DM53.
DU DM53 will penetrate like 5% more than tungsten DM53.
http://www.longrods.ch/

>>34665555
this, according to a janes article the L26 Charm one weighed 6.5 KG.

should've bought Russian

>>34665159
Because DU gives the crews cancer after it is fired and the super heated particles get in your lungs. Also, the rod is then radio active wherever it ends up.

>>34665343
>All tank rounds are spin stabilized.

The Rheinmetall 120 mm gun is a smoothbore tank gun designed and produced by the West German Rheinmetall-DeTec AG company, developed in response to Soviet advances in armor technology and development of new armored threats. Production began in 1974, with the first version of the gun, known as the L/44 as it was 44 calibers long, used on the German Leopard 2 tank and soon produced under license for the American M1A1 Abrams and other tanks. The American version, the M256, uses a coil spring recoil system instead of a hydraulic system.[3] The 120-millimeter (4.7 in) gun has a length of 5.28 meters (17.3 ft), and the gun system weighs approximately 3,317 kilograms (7,313 lb).
By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament. This first involved a 140-millimeter (5.5 in) tank gun named Neue Panzerkanone 140 ("new tank gun 140"), but later turned into a compromise which led to the development of an advanced 120 mm gun, the L/55, based on the same internal geometry as the L/44 and installed in the same breech and mount. The L/55 is 1.32 meters (4.3 ft) longer, giving increased muzzle velocity to ammunition fired through it. As the L/55 retains the same barrel geometry, it can fire the same ammunition as the L/44.
This gun was retrofitted into German and Dutch Leopard 2s, and chosen as the main gun of the Spanish Leopard 2E and the Greek Leopard 2HEL. It was tested on the British Challenger 2 as a potential replacement for its current weapon, the rifled L30 120 mm cannon.
A variety of ammunition has been developed for use by tanks with guns based on Rheinmetall's original L/44 design. This includes a series of kinetic energy penetrators, such as the American M829 series, and high explosive anti-tank warheads. Recent ammunition includes a range of anti-personnel rounds and demolition munitions. The LAHAT, develop

>>34665332
OPs pic is also undamaged

>>34665393
>My bad i meant fin.

That's just as dumb. Where are the fins on the DM12?

>>34665032
Can we argue that the system is more familiar and thus easier to use?

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>>34666766

>>34665343
The only modern tank rounds that are spin stabilized are HESH/HEP.

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>>34664854
>Sleeper slopes

from the wiki
>The first fatality suffered by a crew operating a Leopard 2 happened on 25 July 2008. A Danish Leopard 2A5 hit an IED in Helmand Province. The vehicle was able to continue 200 metres (656 ft) before it halted. Three members of the four-man crew were able to escape even though wounded, but the driver was stuck inside. On site treatment by Danish medics could not save him. The vehicle was towed to FOB Attal and then later to FOB Armadillo for investigation and possible redeployment. During the same contact with Taliban forces, a second tank was caught in an explosion but none of the crew were wounded.

i wonder what modern mbt except pard can be incapacitated with a loss of its crew member by a fucking homebrew mine

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>>34665764

>>34668182
All of them. Those homebrew mines are a bunch of AT mines or 155mm shelled hooked up and buried together. One leopard was put onto its end and stood up by and explosion, that would have tossed a T90 like a pack of cards

T-90 is the worst.

That's why only worst countries buy them. For 2017, it has new orders from Iraq, Kuwait and Vietnam. Modernization for India, Belarus, Armenia, Ethiopia and Angola. And assembly line for Egypt.

Only worst countries. Best countries buy Chinese.

>Begs Germany for more tanks
>Germany agrees for a while then says fuck off
>Tries to develop a shit copy
>It's shit
>Uses what few German tanks they have
>Get btfo because sand people can't into tank warfare and combined arms
>Makes German tanks look shit

Fucking shit roaches. Can't wait till we get a chance to fight Russia over the Bosporus just so we have an excuse to bomb the fuck out of these fuckers.

>>34671112
they had like 300+ pards there don't they, it's quite a few

>>34664960
did you read that article? It wasn't really critical of the leo, claimed it performed better than the T-72, and blamed losses on poor FSA fighters, lack of proper artillery/air support, engineer support, and mechanized infantry.

>>34671142
and also the lack of side armor, lol

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>>34671152
only because the turks were using wimpy side skirting. BGS (big german skirting) is employed by competent militaries.

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>>34671205
or slats, slats beat konkurs most of the time

>>34666745
the summer meme is real

>>34668123
CR2 can handle 60%
Leopard can only handle 30%

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>deploy Leopards on top of hills in static overwatch position to attract ATGMs and the fires of everything in sight
>receive ATGMs
Wow what a shit tank.

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>>34671605
http://scout-thedeaddistrict.blogspot.de/2017/06/blog-post_17.html

the Greek seen to disagree with you

>>34671658
Challenger E uses the same gearbox and engine as Leopard.

>>34671692
but the Leopard in that test can handle 60% slope

>>34664581
>so can we all agree that Leopard is the worst MBT right now

Im pretty sure something like a chinese Type 59 is worse.

>>34671777
but they are way cheaper

you can buy 100 Type 59 with the money of a single Leopard 2A7 Plus

>>34671205
>filename

Thats a 2A4M mate

>>34671785
Yes, and they are way worse to, and can be defeated by IFV autocannons, RPGs, and other stuff that would just anoy any new MBT.

And given that you would need 100x as many crewmembers and fuel/ammunition/support its not in any way cheaper.

>>34671807
>and can be defeated by IFV autocannons
any modern MBT without proper side armor can be defeated by IFV autocannon and RPG

proper side armor is something like this le Clerc skirt >>34671658

>>34671825
Yeah. But not from the front like a chink T-54

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>T-90 is best tank in wo....

>>34672054
>mobility kill
>no crew casualties
>back in service within 3 days

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>>34664864
>If I understand correctly, those incompetent jackasses deployed their MBTs without supporting infantry.


and pray tell what does such supporting infantry do against a ATGM shot at the tank from 3km away? I mean, other than getting shredded by the spall of the HEAT carrot going Mach 20?

That's one of those tell tale signs how you can spot an imbecile who just regurgitates shit he heard before when we talk about "ERA shredding infantry": Tanks getting shot at and hit by AT weapons exist in a cloud of frag no matter what, with or without ERA. A LRP hitting inert steel shed it's fins and carves out armour and send it flying in a cloud radially. HEAT blasts will kill you even if you don't get hit by hypervelocity shrapnel or other so shit like pic related is headcanon from the cold war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW_rLjnPZqI

>>34672183
i guess infantry is supposed to remove any atgm from around the tank :3

>>34672054
>posts test range
u tho

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>>34672110

>>34672202
>i guess infantry is supposed to remove any atgm from around the tank :3

How? they are shooting at you from 3+kms away. you can't even see a threat from that far away unless you have been issued a specialist optic. It's a nonsense argument born out of ignorance and no practical experience.

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>>34665195

This is a fair criticism, but Bongs try to handle their own logistics even in coalition ops. So it's a burden they work around naturally anyway.
Is there a good source for any of it? Can anyone link an article or detailed analysis other than muh rifled gun (which doesn't affect reload times and only debatably affects pen if at all)?
Is there a competition it lost? A leaked report? Any source other than memes?

>>34672217
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=672_1407797625

note how the tank fires it's main gun after being hit.

>>34672217
by covering possible launch sites

>>34672247
>having to have a swivel on your tank round

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWn_NhYzD_Y

absolutely disgusting

>>34672054
Nice green colored turret.

>>34672257
> looks stupid
> works
> ?stupid

>>34672320
it doesn't work. it's a crutch to get around the fact that HEAT rounds are rendered less effective when a spin is imparted to the warhead. smooth bore guns like the rheinmetall are more powerful, more accurate and cheaper than a rifled gun.

>>34672335
The Rheinmetall will not fit in a CR2 turret and when the CR2 was designed and specced the best option was a rifled gun.

I know you've read a lot on YouTube and World of Tanks forums about this but you don't know a thing about procurement or tank armament programs. Re-turreting CR2 to allow it to accept the Rheinmetall L55 would cost more than replacing the whole vehicle, for performance gains that don't give any practical advantage.

A smoothbore gun was fitted to CR2 with modifications at the breech, which gave insufficient ammunition storage and did all sorts of things to the systems. It wasn't happening.

>>34672256
>deploying infantry 3 km away from tank
>/k/ spergs out that tanks don't support infantry
>/k/ spergs out that infantry don't support tanks

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>>34672054
>random turret
>no back story

try something else, faggot

>>34672358
>for performance gains that don't give any practical advantage.
Able to penetrate modern tanks is practical advantage.

>>34672358
>I know you've read a lot on YouTube and World of Tanks forums

Incidentally, I've never even tried WoT or the forum. The point here was which gun is better according to the stats alone and that would be the rheinmetall.

>>34672257
Wtf kind of shell is that at the beginning? And what is going on with the tiny explosion at around 00.14?

>>34672367

you can't win. you don't send in tanks innacity. you post them outside and use them as artillery with anti material capable precision marksmen as spotters who will relay positions of targets back to the tanks or straight out take them out themselves. The idea that you'll have squads sweeping buildings to kill hadjis with RPGs in tandem to tanks rolling in the streets is hilarious. You'll just be killing your own dudes with your tank gun - which incidentally happened a few times to the US armed forces in the war on terror...

>>34665615
Thats not even an L27A1, the british gave the BDU group an L23, and repainted it.

>>34672257
Thats either a HEAT or russian round, not the lack of obturation ring

>>34672335
British Tanks don't use HEAT, i don't even think HEAT rounds are relevant any more other than HEAT warheads in ATGMs
>powerful
The L30 Still fires at 1650 M/s
> more accurate
Nope, definitely not,a rifled tank gun holds the longest tank to tank kill.
>cheaper
The only thing you got right in this post
> than a rifled gun

>>34672358
> for performance gains that don't give any practical advantage.
This, they found that under certain ranges and above certain ranges the british rounds penetrated better. The DM53 only offered better penetration above a certain range and on flat trajectories.
The accuracy wasn't even comparable to the British rounds which could hit out at 5500m with APFSDS and 8000m with HESH.
The only thing that was good about L55 was the fact it could fire ATGMs which lead to the procurement of EXACTOR missile system

the whole thing was a cost saving exercise that turned out to push the cost up to the point where it would cost less to buy leopard 2s, which were offered second hand, which already lost the procurement process when Challenger was designed.

In the end the brits found someone that could make case charges, and started fucking around with L28 to use at long range.

>>34672442
>This, they found that under certain ranges and above certain ranges the british rounds penetrated better.
>Citation needed

>>34672459
They found that on flat trajectories the CHARM3 would overspin , which would build up drag from the fins causing deceleration.
But on arcing trajectories the Energy lost during the upward arc would prevent this. This had the added bonus of negating sloped armor.

Ah, finally it stopped being used as a paper weight and we get to see the truth.

>people shitting on the Abrams forever saying leo is better
>turns out its not
>back-peddle with excuses

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>Use tanks as defensive pillboxes
>Wah tank suck!

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>>34672247
The L30A1E4 Gun is the main armament of the challenger 2 Main battle tank.

It is a 120mm, 55 calibre, Rifled gun that fires two part electronically primed Ammunition.

The principal Anti tank round is the L27A1 CHARM 3 (CHallenger ARMament 3) APFSDS which fires an <weight not publicly available> DU < Length not publicly available> by <Width not publicly available> projectile at a velocity of 1650m/s and a maximum range of 5KM using the L16 and L17 (desertised) combustible case charges. These have since been superseded by the L16A1 and L17A1, and have possibly been superseded by the new Case charge manufacturer. Possibly increasing muzzle velocity and range.

Its Secondary round is the L31 HESH round which is fired at a rate of 670m/s using the L3 bag charge and has a maximum range of 8km.

Its tertiary round is the L34 WP Smoke screen round which ballistically matches the L31.

It has been rumoured that the C3TR, (CHARM3 training round) a Tungsten pratice round has been developed into the L28 APFSDS, which is believed to have 770mm RHAe penetration at 2000m

The two part ammunition allows for lap loading of APFSDS penetrators, and separation of ammunition on the basis of Inert and live loads. Saving weight and allowing for Safer ammunition handling. On the other hand it prevents the length of the penetrator, but in the case of the challenger this is overcome by the size of the bag charge.

Rifled guns, whilst having reduced pressures it allows for less friction of the projectile in the barrel, increased accuracy and range. However this comes at the cost of specialised ammunition, reduced muzzle velocities, increased wear and maintenance.

>>34664581
HAHA, HOW THE FUCK DID YOU THINK YOU COULD MAKE A TANK THAT LIGHT WITHOUT LOSING ARMOR VALUE?

>>34665061
>>34665089
M-m-muh DM53!

>>34672459
DU projectiles are heavier delivering more KE, they're also more likely to penetrate without shattering, splintering or bouncing.

>>34672528
>they're also more likely to penetrate without shattering, splintering or bouncing.
You simply don't know what are talking about. This is "shaped charge is superheated plasma" level. Stop posting.

>>34672507
>which is believed to have 770mm RHAe penetration at 2000m
Bongs should be banned from tank treads.

>>34672607
> He thinks Tungsten is a decent penetrator

>>34672614
> Is believed.
Key word.

German 120mm DM-13 390mm at 2km (1979)
German 120mm DM-23 470mm at 2km (1983)
German 120mm DM-33/Japanese JM-33 550mm at 2km (1987)
German 120mm DM-43A1/US KEW A1 590mm at 2km (1994)
German 120mm DM-53 tungsten 700mm at 2km (1996)
German 120mm/L55 DM-53 760mm at 2km (2001)
German 120mm DM-63/Israeli M-338 tungsten 680mm at 2km (2006)
German 120mm/L55 DM-63 tungsten 720mm at 2km (2006)
S.Korean K276 120mm tungsten 700mm at 1km (2004)
French 120mm OFL120F1 tungsten 590mm at 2km (1994)
French 120mm OFL120F2 DU 647mm at 2km (1997)
US M103 120mm APC 221mm at 1000yards; 199mm at 2000yards at 30 degrees
UK Conqueror 120mm AP 255mm at 1000 yards; 226mm at 2000 yards (1.8km)
UK Conqueror 120mm L1A1 APDS 446mm at 1000 yards (914m)
UK L-15 120mm APDS round 355mm at 1km/340mm at 2km (1965)
UK L-31 120mm HESH 460mm at any range (1960s)
UK L-15A4 120mm APDS-T 450mm at 2km (1970s, and exported to Iran before Revolution)
UK L-23 120mm tungsten APFSDS round 450mm at 2km (Apr 1983)
UK Charm-1 L-26 120mm DU APFSDS round 530mm at 2km (1991)
UK Charm-3 L-27 APFSDS 120mm DU 720mm at 2km (1999)
UK L-28 120mm APFSDS 770mm at 2km (200X)
US M829A3 120mm DU 765mm at 2km (2003) (Russian estimate 795mm)
US M829A2 120mm DU 730mm at 2km (1994)
US M829A1 120mm DU 610mm at 2km (1991) (Russian estimate 700mm)
US M829 120mm DU 552mm at 2km (1987)

>>34672622
All these stats, gathered under different conditions and then compared as if they were side-by-side tests.

>>34672636
Yeah, that isn't a factor.

For example britain practices a Bare minimum. Where the round has to penetrate 100% of the time.

Germany and the US practice a 50%, and russia 80%.

>>34672642
This posts lacks cohesion.

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>>34672622
>no sources quoted
This is why bongs should be banned.

>>34672615
Ever heard about science? pic related. (though it can't be denied that DU has extremely nasty behind armor effects)

>>34664864
>If I understand correctly, those incompetent jackasses deployed their MBTs without supporting infantry.
No. They had infantry support, the FSA grunts. But those grunts ran away at the first sight of an ISIS attack. Those Leos were there for support.

>>34672645
Ok british rounds are easy enough.

the L27A1 is guaranteed to penetrate 720mm RHAe 100% of the time.
the DM53 (L55) only has to penetrate 50% of the time in order for it to be considered able to penetrate 760mm RHAe under german testing standards
the M829A2 only has to penetrate 50% of the time in order for it to be considered able to penetrate 720mm RHAe under american testing standards

So when you look at these numbers british tanks can do that thickness 100/100 shoots (unless something goes horribly wrong), whereas german and american standards means theres only a 50/50 chance of penetration.

But i guess it doesn't really matter if your tactics are sound and you follow up shots

>>34672648
>This is why bongs should be banned.
I'm an american.

The source was Jcollins before it was sold, the numbers are solid, you try and find another true source as to what CR2s penetration is and come back, as Its the only discernible number that wasn't an estimate based on estimates, used as excuse to Nerf a tank in a game so someone elses national tank can perform better

I'm just tired of the whole Myth-Meme-Conception regarding challenger 2s penetration

>>34666098
you don't understand what depleted uranium is do you?

>>34672741
Ssshhh, dont spoil his memes

>>34672673
>the L27A1 is guaranteed to penetrate 720mm RHAe 100% of the time.
>*Citation needed*

>The source was Jcollins before it was sold, the numbers are solid, you try and find another true source
>actual ammo trials (mostly classified for modern tanks) > estimates > piss > shit > whatever sources that doesn't actually quote ammo trials

>>34672757
Learn to greentext m'lad

>>34672757
Its your own fault for not looking it up before Jcollins went offline.

Now we have to put up with janes this, janes that

>>34672812
>bongs confirmed for below shit sources

>>34672821
Not even him.

JCollins was at one time a competitor to janes.

Its better than no sources.

>>34672821
> m-muh DM53 with smoothbore.

Fuckoff cuck. Tungsten is shit.

>>34672850
>JCollins was at one time a competitor to janes.
>implying half of the janes info doesn't come from their ass

>>34664581
Hey at least it's not the T-90

even abrams is dog shit in the hands of SAUDIS and iraq monkeys. also no sheets.

>>34673035
yeah, the T-90 could not fucked up that bad >>34673038
not as bad as this

>>34672183
>and pray tell what does such supporting infantry do against a ATGM shot at the tank from 3km away?
Not him, but to answer your question - nothing in that situation.Because the infatry isn't suppossed to be standing around the tank.Infantry acompaniment is place at a minimum of 500 meters before the tank during advances along with IFV.
When the tank battalion is hulled down defending and area, a competent commander would placed a forward observer at a minimum ot 2km from the main line in order to provide cover and 4km behind him would be heavy mortar units like Tundzas.8km behind the main line are the long-range artilery like Gvozdika that is there to provide counter-batterry fire.
This ofcourse doesn't matter cause the turks were fighting in a city enviroment where the tank is worthless, or were uzing the Leo's as glorified howitzers atop of a hill - again bad tactics.

>>34672673
I need the full circumstances for every test, and the criteria to say the results are comparable. And then i'd also like the test results to be reproducible.

>>34664581
>Read the article
>kebab sand monkeys driving the Leopard
Of course it failed, they most likely oiled it with either shit or the grease trap from their kebabs
Also reading further you see literally every failure is the fault of these fucktarded sand people having technology too advanced for their feeble minds
>camoflage it bright yellow in the snowy winter
>using modern tanks as gun playforms
>using tanks outside of fully mechanized doctrine

>>34672257
>>34672335
are you saying that it looks like the rear half of the round is spinning, and the front isn't?
to me it looks like whole projectile spins together

>>34673184
> Being this pedantic.

>>34672183
That tank is more than meets the eye.

>>34673152
> is place at a minimum of 500 meters before the tank during advances
Now you 2500 meters from launch site.
Really no difference.
>inb4 put infantry 2000 meters ahead
>infantry is shredded with MGs
>where is tank support?
>tank is hit by ATGM
>where is infantry support? (not visible because it is 2000 meters away from tanks)

>along with IFV.
No you put IFV under ATGM "without infantry support" and /k/ spergs in teh ecstasy "they don't no how to use IFV properly"

>>34673260
TRANSFORMERS!

>>34664691
>https://misterxanlisis.wordpress.com/category/vehiculos/

I'm a fucking britfag and I have to agree.

>fakin put dat thermal sight on da gun bartrel yeah?
>but that'll mean it's thrown out when the gun elevates to hit targets at long range?
>shyut yor mouyth yew fakin cant.

It really is shit. It's almost as shit as america's ability to absorb casualties without crying and pissing their pants and just generally giving in and voting in a black guy.

>>34673373

Last post meant for >>34664691

>>34673373
Don't even lie, you're russian

>>34673373
You're a Rusfat.

>>34673245
This isn't pedantic, if you really want to pretend like this scientific data is relevant, you should do it right.

It's like claiming a car goes faster, then someone asks you for a unit. And you say >miles or kilometres who cares; don't be pedantic

You understand that data which is not comparable is practically meaningless right?

Also where did you get the criteria for British penetration standards?

>>34664581
Reminder:You can have the best tank in the world its nothing without combined arms and tactics

>>34673508
On /k/ there are 49.24% American users, and only 2.62% Russian users. It's very primitive to try and silence criticism by claiming someone anonymous is from a country you don't like. Especially when the statistical probability that he is not Russian is in fact 97.38%

>>34669149
you realise you can change that, right?

>>34673373
>I'm a fucking britfag
No you're not

>>34665292
that is a defeated t90 vatniks btfo and burning

>>34673846
>he is Russian is in fact 97.38%

ftfy

>>34673846
>>34673373
fuck off

>>34665292

O_O

>>34672622
where are proofs of these numbers

everyone ignores saudis and iraqi abram monkey models huh. also turkey had cobras and shiet got btfo by strela someone post kurds shooting at cobra. a fine tool is nothing in the arms of inbred muslims.

>>34673846
Actually you're wrong about you math there, because the words structure, and content of the message affect the likelihood oft he poster being Russian and or being a Russian using a proxy. Sure if he had said nothing than the probability that he is not Russian is ~97%, but his statements change that probability. For example the shit posters who clearly don't speak English as their first language, who end up posting Russian propaganda, do not have the same probability of being Russian as you or I do.

Now, I would be inclined to believe he is probably not American, but still from an English speaking country, so he probably is what he says he is a britbong.

>>34664854
>RPG jet penetrant hull
>Hits tea kettle
>Mission kill

>>34664581
I LOVE BTFO THREADS

>>34664950
>The only loss was a one in a million shot, and blue on blue at that.
What about the crew casualty to 1 (one!) RPG-28 hit on the lower glacis?

>>34666098
Fake news, Gulf War Syndrome was caused by experimental vaccines intended to inoculate against weapons Anthrax and SmallPox, people who had their orders changed after their deployment physicals and stayed stateside caught it too.

And the aftermath of DU penetration of an enemy tank is less radioactive than the coal pile at a power plant.

DU is a heavy metals threat, however, and a very risky one, because of its flamability.

>>34674678
RPG-29 ( pen 650-750 after ERA )
RPG-28 is too powerful to be in monkey's hands ( pen 900mm after ERA )

>>34674678
oh no a driver of a challenger 2 lost a couple toes after an RPG-28 penetrated the underbelly of the tank

meanwhile, in the abrams...
>Bumper B-66
>TF 1-41, 2nd Armored Division(FWD)
>it by an Iraqi RPG-7
>Penetration in the hull, below the turret
>Ammunition blown-up
>1 KIA, 3 WIAs

>>34674818
RPG 29

when will you tankfags learn that your autistic shitwagons are ALL obsolete in the modern battlefield

>>34675215
>dude ill be so smart if I say something is obsolete. I'll look like I'm really ahead of the curve and forward-thinking.