Why, oh why did Colt, Kimber, Remington, etc. put that infernal

>>34660706
I think with the rise of the carry gun and glocks safe type triggers there was a need to fufill the "what if I drop it" answer.

>>34660706

The same reason Taurus, Steyr and S&W have internal locking mechanisms. Plain and simple fear.

>>34660729
How is the 1911 not a "carry" gun? People have carried them WITHOUT THE FIRING PIN BLOCK for 100 years.
>>34660748
Fear on the part of whom? I have never met a single soul who wanted to have that feature. If the market doesn't demand it, why would a company offer it.

The people who campaign against the Series 80 firing system on the grounds that it somehow causes the gun to become less reliable, durable, or accurate are guilty of falling for fuddlore. Every single modern handgun design incorporates one without any losses to reliability, durability, or accuracy. Furthermore, even other antique designs in wide circulation contemporary to the 1911, like the Colt Police Positive and Smith and Wesson Military and Police Revolver, had features like rebounding hammers to make the gun drop safe.

>>34660831
>The people who campaign against the Series 80 firing system on the grounds that it somehow causes the gun to become less reliable, durable, or accurate are guilty of falling for fuddlore
I never said any of those things. Yes, I know it doesn't make the pistol less inherently accurate, but it gives you a worse trigger pull, making it harder to shoot.

>>34660796
Are you making the assertion that the firing pin block would have done nothing to prevent accidental discharges (as opposed to negligent discharges)? Remember that if your hammer spring decided to pull a CZ and fail on you or if your sear got tripped because of tolerance stacking--the latter especially being a problem that wasn't uncommon in the old days with 1911s--and you were carrying cocked and locked with a round in the chamber as you were supposed to, you would have just shot yourself without pulling the trigger. It is to prevent scenarios like this that modern guns all have firing pin blocks.

>>34660874
Are you saying that you are able to shoot competently with a Series 70 1911 but are unable to shoot competently with a Series 80 1911? If that is not what you are saying, then please tell me what the difference in real world accuracy is for you between a Series 70 and Series 80 1911.

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Because i almost blew my dick off with a service pistol that had a defective firing pin block.

>>34660706
what's the downside exactly?

>>34660886
>>34660903
Mechanical malfunctions with non firing pin block 1911s are exceedingly rare. I would be more worried about getting struck by lightning twice in the same day than a mechanical defect causing accidental discharge. Negligent discharge is a different story.
>>34660901
>Are you saying that you are able to shoot competently with a Series 70 1911 but are unable to shoot competently with a Series 80 1911?
I am saying you can shoot BETTER with a series 70 than with a series 80. Paying more money for a feature that makes you shoot worse and provides no real benefit is insane.
>>34660903
That wasn't a 1911. Your argument is irrelevant.
>>34660930
Worse trigger and greater manufacturing cost. There is no upside.

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A safe gun is an useless gun

>>34660949
>Mechanical malfunctions with non firing pin block 1911s are exceedingly rare. I would be more worried about getting struck by lightning twice in the same day than a mechanical defect causing accidental discharge.

You're either a newgunz or your confidence is misplaced. The lack of a firing pin block to prevent a mechanical failure from causing the gun to discharge without the trigger being pulled is a serious issue that every major manufacturer of 1911s has tried to address in different ways precisely because of how real of a concern it actually is.

See: http://www.tactical-life.com/combat-handguns/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/

I'm sure you still don't believe me, of course. Fine. But answer me this then--why is it that every modern handgun that is used in a serious military application, up to and including the HK USP and HK Mark 23, has a firing pin block if the firing pin block is a superfluous part that does nothing other than "make you shoot worse and provide no real benefit?" Answer that question.

>>34661071
Yes, 1911s can discharge when dropped. I never denied that, but you forgot about one crucial detail. It's possible only if the gun lands muzzle down, in which case the bullet would just go into the ground anyway.
>>34661071
>why is it that every modern handgun that is used in a serious military application, up to and including the HK USP and HK Mark 23, has a firing pin block if the firing pin block is a superfluous part that does nothing other than "make you shoot worse and provide no real benefit?" Answer that question.
Because procurement officers are a bunch of careerist POGs who neither know nor care anything about gun performance. Accidents affect their careers. Combat does not. Therefore they have an incentive to pick a gun that has so many superfluous safety features that it's nearly impossible to use. That other anon had it right. A gun isn't supposed to be safe.

>doesn't think a firing pin block is a worthwhile safety feature

autism at its peak, lads

>>34661118
Do you believe that a USP or Mark 23 are accurately described as "guns with so many superfluous safety features that they are nearly impossible to use?"

>>34661071

>It also did not have a secured firing pin and was not “drop-safe” against inertia fire. You don’t carry a 1903, so it doesn’t matter? Well, if you carry a 1911, it does matter, because both mechanisms were designed by John M. Browning and are remarkably similar.
Wrong

>Let’s look inside the guns in question. Not until the 1930s did the 1911 pistol get a positive internal firing pin lock, the Swartz safety, and Colt history students know that it was so complex and expensive to manufacture
Wrong. It wasn't wanted by the US military and was not included in the 1911a1 specs.

>>34660729
How often do you drop your carry gun onto hard concrete surfaces?

I mean really.

>>34661071
>HK USP
Unreliable.

Legal requirements.

>>34661205
I'd say it's a lot more likely than actually using the gun, be it in self defense or as a combatant that needs to draw a sidearm.

>>34661127
Not autism, and not an argument.
>>34661149
No, gun companies still want to sell their products to the civilian market, which is a little more discriminating that procurement officers.
>>34661247
In the vast majority of jurisdictions, it is not legally required.

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I can't even tell if I'm being trolled anymore...you think being on the chans enough would increase your ability to discern trolls, but perhaps the trolls have become more sophisticated.

The Kimber series II has a firing pin block that is COMPLETELY different from the Colt series 80. The series 80 sucked because the firing pin block was actuated by the trigger itself, which sometimes resulted in a substandard pull.

The Kimber series II has a firing pin block that is disabled through the grip safety, and thus has no effect on the trigger pull.

>>34661491
I did not know that. Thank you.

>>34660831
>any losses to reliability, durability, or accuracy.

>more moving parts
>moving parts which are intentionally designed to prevent the firing pin from operating
>moving parts which are directly connected to the trigger
>moving parts directly connected to the trigger which increase the trigger pull and add grittiness to it
>pull weight and grit, which ultimately reduce accuracy

u wot m8
There are FPBs which are designed well and have minimal impact on the operation of the gun - in 1911s, FPBs which operate off of the grip safety are perfectly fine, or in guns like the Jericho, where the FPB drops out of the way under its own spring tension as the trigger is pulled.
The Series 80 FPB design, however, is a complete garbage. It's like Colt went out of their way to design the worst possible FPB, with as many parts and contact surfaces as possible.

>>34660901
Why would I want to pay more to add more parts to something to objectively make it worse?
Particularly when insane premiums are paid in 1911s to make triggers lighter, cleaner, and crisper - all things which the Series 80 FPB makes worse.

>>34661559
Thank God I'm not alone.

I find it quite interesting that my series 80 colt I bought new in 2014 has a much better trigger in literally every way to my pre war commercial model Colt.
The truth is that while the series 80 fps can interfere with the trigger pull a good gunsmith can tune it to be as light and crisp as the vast majority of people will want on a carry 1911.
If you absolutely need a 2 pound trigger you can always just remove the series 80 components.
Not to mention companies like Springfield, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson, etc etc don't have Firing Pin Safeties so you have options.
You can even buy a brand new series 70 Colt for fuck sake which has no FPS.
There's literally no reason to bitch.

>>34661767
>I find it quite interesting that my series 80 colt I bought new in 2014 has a much better trigger in literally every way to my pre war commercial model Colt.
Probably because those antique pistols are worn out, and many were not that well made to begin with.
>>34661767
>The truth is that while the series 80 fps can interfere with the trigger pull a good gunsmith can tune it to be as light and crisp as the vast majority of people will want on a carry 1911.
The only thing a gunsmith can do is remove the series 80 parts. It's like a bad wisdom tooth: the only cure is the have it removed.
>>34661767
>If you absolutely need a 2 pound trigger you can always just remove the series 80 components.
Exactly, but why pay for a gun with parts you are going to remove when you can just buy a model without the offending parts?
>>34661767
>You can even buy a brand new series 70 Colt for fuck sake which has no FPS.
Yes, the problem is that Colt is too busy sucking dick to keep them in stock. Series 80 Colts are in stock all the time. Series 70, not so much.

>>34661833
If you're trying to buy a colt from Bud's Mountain Belas™ you'll never find one in stock.

Seriously you're a whiny fucking bitch

>>34661841
I have looked high and low for a Colt Series 70. If you can show me a place that has them in stock, I'll eat my hat while you butter my ass and call me a biscuit.
>>34661841
>Seriously you're a whiny fucking bitch
Job 7:11

>>34661833
>The only thing a gunsmith can do is remove the series 80 parts
While I dislike Series 80s as much as you do, this is hyperbole.
A good gunsmith can polish and true the contact surfaces between the Series 80 parts, and especially can polish the side of the FPB lever where it comes in contact with the sear. This will reduce the FPB's impact on the trigger, but won't eliminate it. It's also a fair bit more work than just doing a regular old trigger job.

>>34661849
>Bible quotes
I'm starting to think you're a real live fudd, and not just pretending to be one. How did you find your way here?

>>34661879
>A good gunsmith can polish and true the contact surfaces between the Series 80 parts, and especially can polish the side of the FPB lever where it comes in contact with the sear. This will reduce the FPB's impact on the trigger, but won't eliminate it. It's also a fair bit more work than just doing a regular old trigger job.
For as much work as that is, you might as well just remove those parts altogether instead of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

>>34661879
>Bible quotes
I'm actually an atheist. I've just always liked that particular quote.

>>34661398
>In the vast majority of jurisdictions, it is not legally required.
That's nice, but gun manufacturers are known for making one, MAYBE two versions of the gun to fit legal requirements. Best to make one gun to cover all bases than to make a bunch in favor of avoid a nonexistant problem of people who REALLY don't like firing pin blocks.

>>34660903
I remember you.
Did your armorer figure out how to fix it?
Did you get an Imbel yet?
1911s, Series 70 and 80 alike, both have firing pin springs. I wouldn't worry about a slam fire happening with them. I doubt even Taurus could fuck it up badly enough to do that.

>>34661849
https://www.gunsamerica.com/957254691/Colt-MKIV-Series-70-Stainless-45-NIB-NO-CC-FEE.htm

Tell me how that hat tastes there Biscuit.

>>34660874
I'd give you that if you're an Olympic gold medal shooter. For real world shooting and speed shooting sports like IDPA and IPSC, the small amount of additional force it takes to overcome that tiny spring pushing down on the FPB is insignificant.

>>34661904
I meant a new one, not used. New in box is still used.
>>34661907
Don't let good be the enemy of perfection.

>>34661888
>For as much work as that is, you might as well just remove those parts altogether
Yes, you absolutely could, and I absolutely would.
But to say that
>The only thing a gunsmith can do is remove the series 80 parts
is patently false.
If somebody really, really wants the Series 80 FPB in their gun, and also really wants a trigger job, it can be done.
There actually are people who do shoot IPDA and IPSC with Series 80 1911s, and they do well with them.
For the record, by the way, even if you remove the Series 80 parts and replace it with a slot filler - you'd still want to polish the same surface of that slot filler anyway.
I'd include some rednecky proverb to be snarky, but actions speak louder than words, so I'm going to make hay while the sun shines. You know, there's no time like the present, so even if you can lead a horse to water you can't make him drink and grease the squeaky wheel or however that goes.

I have a 1911. Also I am a noob.
How do I discern whether it is a "series whatever"?
Like, where do I look to see things that may or may not be present?

>>34661907
Except in the real world, especially in the military and policing, some kid is probably more likely to drop a handgun than fire it in a defensive situation. Also, perfection is subjective. For the tiny impact a FPB safety has on trigger pull, most shooters aren't going to give a shit and it's not going to have a significant or noticible effect on your shooting, save for the Olympic gold medal shooter. I must admit, though, people sure are coming up with the darndest scapegoats for their shitty groups nowadays.

>I-it's the f-firing pin block, guys...

>>34661921
Yes, if you want to be pedantic, you can still have a half ass trigger trigger job even with a series 80, but why would you? Why not just buy a pistol that isn't defective?
>>34661921
>There actually are people who do shoot IPDA and IPSC with Series 80 1911s, and they do well with them.
There are people who do all sorts of difficult and illogical things.
>>34661928
See the two slides in the picture? See the pin in the one on the botton? That pin is is the firing pin block.
>>34661939
>some kid is probably more likely to drop a handgun than fire it in a defensive situation
Who the fuck cares? The gun would only discharge if it lands muzzle down anyway?

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>>34661928
>>34661946
Forgot the pic.

>>34661949
Ah. So if I have the pin, its a 80, if I don't, its a 70?

Thanks mane

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>>34661907
You're also overcoming the friction and mechanical (dis)advantage from all of the contact surfaces of the series 80 parts.
I count three contact surfaces there between them, plus the side of the lever rubs with the sear, and the FPB its self rubs with the inside of the slide. That's a lot of new contact going on, all introducing grit and creep into the trigger pull, before you even get to the added weight of overcoming the FPB spring.

>>34661928
When you field strip the gun, you'll see a little round peg (the Firing Pin Block or FPB its self) on the inside of the slide towards the rear right, and a corresponding little lever on the frame that goes up when you pull the trigger (don't let the hammer fall on the frame, catch it with your fingers)
You can also see the the FPB when you lock the slide back and look at it from underneath.

>>34661939
The FPB won't make the difference between being good and bad, but it can make the difference between being great and amazing.

>>34661946
As much as I want to join you in hyperbole and agree that Series 80 is a defect, it's actually just a poor design. A trigger job is a trigger job either way.
The interesting thing about militantly anti-80 1911 fudds and fanboys, is that I never see the same thing happen with any other design that added a FPB later.
the CZ-75's FPB is a pretty cruddy design too, but I never see the same level of fanatical hatred directed at it.

>>34661955
Correct. What brand is your 1911?

>>34661962
Aafari Arms, Matchmaster 5
The one in matte stainless with the scorpion engraved on the grips.
Also one of the few 1911s that have a finger groove, or rather, a wedge that goes between your middle and ring fingers. I bought it primarily because for some reason this feels REALLY good in my hand. Very natural. Some folks (with fatter fingers I guess) don't like it as much.

>http://www.armslist.com/posts/6831438/st-louis-missouri-handguns-for-sale--safari-arms-matchmaster
Link marginally related, obviously not my gun.

Also apparently "known for being in the movie 'Wanted'". I never knew that one.

>>34661917
>new in box is used
Pretending to be retarded isnt trolling

>>34662008
>Aafari
*Safari
I derp'd

>>34662008
Can't say I've ever heard of that one, but then again, there are about 100 brands of 1911.
>>34662010
New in box means preowned but in mint condition. I'm talking about new stock.

>>34662030
You probably heard about Olymic Arms though, out of Oly, WA? They bought Safari Arms (or the name) sometime in the 90s and the Matchmaster became "their" 1911 kinda like the OA15 became "their AR15".

>>34662030
>preowned but in mint condition
That's actually Like New in Box
New in Box means it's new and comes the same way it'd be retail, ie, in a box, as opposed to something like New Old Stock or New Surplus or whatever else.

>>34662040
The link in >>34661904 said "new in box." I'm looking for a brand new series 70 Colt. I can't find them. I imagine I won't until Colt makes another batch.

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>>34662047
New in Box means it's brand new, in a box. Are you completely retarded?

>>34662070
>new in box
No, it means it was owned but (presumably) never used.

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>>34662079
>Being so dumb you can't even decipher the meaning of the word "New"
Owned and unused is "LIKE New in Box"
You know, because it's like it's New in Box.

>>34662088
That's what you think.

>>34662008
>>34662039
Went ahead and checked, no FPB on the MM5. Thanks to all who helped.

>>34662070
>>34662079
>>34662088
There's no way to tell the seller is being honest, but FFS "New in Box" most definitely means New, in it's packaging, as in "has never been removed"

>>34662088
I've seen "like new", and "new in box" but saying "like new in box" is just deceitful. It's either new in the box or it ain't.