Counterinsurgencies aren't actually possible. You can't

>you can't win a counterinsurgency
> if you remove this game winning plan I m-mean

Fuck off

Sage in all fields

>>34653005

You literally cannot conduct a genocide today. You could try, but you'll have literally the entire world turn against you if you're actually trying for a Genocide.

>>34652975
OP, you're a tard with little faith and historical knowledge. You can win at COIN, here is how. Keep in mind there is no one good example of COIN, you have to adapt SOPs, tactical, operational, and strategic level thinking to the situation, culture and all, at hand.

First, you must understand what an insurgency is. Generally speaking it is a "popular" uprising where the fighters blend seamlessly into the background. As Mao stated "swim among the populace." Support from the local populace, be it organic or coerced, is key to their survival. Another key to their survival is outside support from third parties or other states. Think about the Soviets funding almost every communist uprising in latter half of the 20th century. Without the insane ammount of material that was being chucked into Africa many Black marxist uprisings would have failed.

With that in mind, the next question to ask is how do you fight. There are the kill them all proponents, which believe it or not actually works to a certain extent, and the "hearts and minds" proponents. Militaires tend to focus on one or the other, the latter being popular among the soft power folks and civilian leadership that are afraid to get their hands really dirty. I propose you need a synthesis of the two.

Massacring the populace of a nation is likely to draw negative attention to your cause, and will mostly serve as propaganda for the insurgents. On the other hand if you don't stack some bodies the enemy and populace will view you as weak and exploit any gaps they can find. For example, US ROE in Afghanistan was an absolute clusterfuck that effectively put a muzzle on any aggressive action with red tape. The Taliban knew it and used it to their advantage.

1/2

>>34652975
Malayan Insurgency = win

>>34653140
The other side of "hearts and minds" is a bit of a pitfall that is easy to fall into. Yes, building up infrastructure and helping the populace removes incentives to back the insurgents. In some cases you are even seeding backing for your side from people that would more than likely be indifferent. But without the backing of violence there is no point. There is no way of enforcing the rules you put in place. The enemy will move back into places there were declared "clear," or the locals will just use you for gibs. Either way the mission is compromised.

Another critical aspect is actually separating the insurgents from the populace, their critical lifeline of support. This is easier said than done but there are some good ways of going about it. This is where understanding the customs and culture of the populace really hits home. If you can convince the local big cheese that you are the best for his people, 9 times out of 10 he'll let you know where the insurgents are hiding. This approach takes time, but is far more effective then relocating a village.

From there, if you can isolate the insurgents from their international support you will win. This means putting political pressure on backers or physically stopping shipments of arms. Again, not easy but doable.

All of this requires a significant ammount of time, resources, and manpower that can wear down your own populace. This means you need to take control of the narrative, don't let the insurgents have it. They claim to be freedom fighters, you show evidence that they are actually slaughtering women in children. Rhodesia faced this problem in the most significant way. ZANU PF had the media eating out of their hand because they could really pitch the "oppressed freedom fighter" point and every operation the Rhodesians conducted they wrote off as a civilian massacre.

>tl;dr read a fucking book

Much of the "failed" COIN examples are because an outside power was funnelling support to the insurgent faction. The clusterfuck that is the Syrian Civil War, with all sorts of outside interference was commonplace throughout the Cold War, it's one of the main reasons that the world is so much more peaceful since then. Also, the traditional COIN method of "divide and rule" has certainly been historically very successful.

>>34653017
all is forgiven if you say you're communist
hell, you'll even have middle class college students defending you about how it's not a genocide and you dindu nuffin

>You can't win a counterinsurgency war.
Insurgents themselves winning isn't exactly common though.

Half the examples are like after a few failed attempts.

>>34653293

This. Purge denial is very real.

>>34653017
you just fund a group to commit the genocide u fuckin mong

Guess what. You don't hear about the successful ones.

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>>34653293
All is forgiven if you claim to do it for the sake of building a pro western 'democratic' capitalist country. Then, all the neoconservatives and NED figures, as well as their cronies controlling the MSM will paint you in a good light and award you the Nobel Peace Price. Pic related.

Also, if you genocide Muslims, people won't even discuss your ongoing genocides. Pic definitely related.

Also, if your country offers itself to become a part of the containment block against your rivals like China or Russia, everything is forgiven and you definitely didn't do nuffings. Pic really definitely related.

>>34653394
you're delusional

>>34653394
so you agree that it's still possible to commit a genocide?

>>34653415
You are blind.

As expected from foaming neocons.

How many countries do you need to destroy and how many people do you need to plunge into civilian before you achieve your "end of history"?

>>34653394
Spotted the buttblasted commie from leftypol.

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>>34653420
Indeed.

If you are on the "right side", on the side of the USA and you pledge allegiance to Washington, you can get away with anything.
Pic related.

>>34653424

>reddit spacing
>muh neocons

Welp, and there I thought this was going to be and interesting conversation. Go back to where you came from.

>>34653429
Hey, why don't you go and mastutbate a bit more about Pinochet and throwing people out of helicopters because they are against the big business friends that, by the way, fuck you in your ass as well?

Actually, why don't you just go back the McDonald's and flip a few more Burgers. Your student debts won't pay themselves.

>>34653394
>Also, if you genocide Muslims, people won't even discuss your ongoing genocides. Pic definitely related.
>implying there isn't mass outcry in the media about burma and the clusterfuck that is the middle east

>>34653394
This.

If only Hitler allied with the US.
We wouldn't even talk about the Holocaust these days...

>>34653140
>>34653234
You are mostly right, but I think it comes down to the locals often don't feel that their world is theirs and as such they don't really feel they have a purpose. By making the world theirs, they then will want to defend it. We need to give them jobs, that have real effects, not just jobs that give them some money but will disappear when we leave.

We tend to build roads, schools or hospitals for the locals. It really is no surprise that they tend to have no appreciation for them. If some nutcase blows himself up, destroying a school, they don't really care since big brother America will just come in and replace it. We need to have them directly build their infrastructure, with their hands and material, that way when somebody blows it up, they get pissed.

Linked to the just giving them stuff, is we often tell them their crops are unfit for eating, here have some food we made that is. What we should do is let them know that there food is not really safe to eat, here hire this person, not only will your food be safe to eat, you will make more of it. This way not only are you helping them make their own food, but you are giving another person a purpose.

>>34653457

You have to understand that leftists lack an essential self awareness. They literally believe that everything that they are activists for and against are successfully covered up, despite the fact that they themselves are a very mainstream ideology.

>>34652975
Do you have ANY experience with COIN firsthand or are you talking out of your ass, further shitting up this board with 17 year old tier Reddit posts?

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>>34653017
You do not kill everyone, you just kill every insurgent. That is not genocide.

>>34652975
I always thought russians got wrecked in that war

>>34653505

I believe it's the yugoslav wars. But I could be wrong.

>>34653017
There was a genocide in Europe less than 30 years ago. I'd say its very possible.

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>>34653495

>>34653495
>Kill every insurgent?
You do realize that is impossible correct? You could kill every military age male, but you'd be killing civilians purposely as well, making you no better than the terrorists, and nullifying the whole COIN. Even in Iraq when civilians were accidentally killed, it leads to retaliation from insurgents

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>>34653511
first chechen war

while russians did had high cacualties, they have achevied their main goal - do not allow formation and break away of chechen republic

besides, keeping low casualties count was never priority in russian doctrine

>>34653017
What is Africa? What is the middle east? What is ISIS?

>>34652975

You don't have to kill everyone, OP. You break their will to fight. Usually by targeting important cultural targets, and utilizing shock tactics which indiscriminately target civilians, especially women, children and elderly.

Don't bother with the men or the soldiers. They're just their because their told to defend something. Get rid of what they're defending, however, and you're just another guy with a gun and no cause to fight for.

>>34653581
Is rape an effective demoralizer?

>>34652975
>stopped being possible

Armenian genocide you ignorant nigger

>>34653603

Armenians still exist you ill-mannered negro

>>34653545
The entire russian population of that region was either genocided or has fled.

Now Russia basically has to constantly bribe the chechens not to rebel again.

Russia got rekt by hairy unemployed caucasian monkeys

>>34653608
Armenians no longer exist in Turkey or the Balcans fucko

i'm from guatemala and the army stopped the commie threat back in the 70s up to the 90s through methodical elimination of any and all civilian and military support to the guerrillas
many war crimes were committed, perhaps even genocide, but the lesson learned is that you can't pussyfoot around an insurgency.
you need to crack some eggs to make an omelette

>>34653660

>Migration is Genocide

huh

>>34653664
Forced migration

>>34653512
and the result? Serbs lost large part of their land, and outside moscow and few dens of autists , everyone hates them. Oh, and their leader are rotting in prison.

And finally, the fuckers they were trying to genocide? they have their own countries now.

srbe na vrbe

>>34653668

Still not a genocide.

Genocide means "They're literally all dead"

Even the holocaust wasn't a genocide

>>34653692
>Genocide means "They're literally all dead"

nah bro

>>34653692
Ok Hans

>>34653687
They were going to lose those parts of land anyway

>>34653512
It wasnt a genocide

>>34653692
If that is the case then why do we call what happened between the Hutus and Tutsis the "Rwandan Genocide?"

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>>34652975
i hate to break it to you but the brits had their own version of Vietnam twice and won.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia%E2%80%93Malaysia_confrontation

And northern ireland, but thats highly complicated

>>34653841

Attempted Ethnic Cleansing

>>34653842
>the brits had their own version of Vietnam twice and won

so the entirety of indochina was flooding in and forcing them to exterminate everyone?

tell me more

>>34652975
>That isn't counterinsurgency, it's genocide,
This is how German Nazi scum was defeated.

>>34653861
Mau mau insurgency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising

they literally put communists into concentration camps and told them that was their commune

>>34653852
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
>Genocide is intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part.

Well, according to this definition, "attempted ethnic cleansing" is considered genocide.

>>34652975
Dont know about a war, but if you want to win a battle against insurgents in a forest, jungle or a mountain, you have to send out a few 6 man teams to sneak around the area.
Fight gorillas with gorillas.

>>34652975
>Kill farmers and anyone who helps the enemy
>kill anyone who doesn't report them

might sound like genocide but it's the only effecive way to deal with gorilla warfare, Kill those who feed them and help them and then counter insurgency will be far more effective, throw a bit of you own gorilla warfare specialised troops with air support on top and that's it senpai, that's how u win vietnam.

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>>34653891
The british army did this in northern ireland

> get together troops who had lost friends to IRA
> Put them under command of an OPMI
> Give them non issue weapons, HK53s, G3s, AR18s
> Tell them they can do whatever they like to the IRA
> they start acting like IRA
> Pull up next to IRA checkpoint and do drive by
> IRA claims they're "killing civilians"
> In reality the IRA just takes away their weapons before anyone can turn up to collect them and confirm them as IRA
> IRA expects it the RHC and other loyalists but they don't claim responsibility
> IRA Screams WARRRRRRRR CRIIIIIIIIIMMMMEEEEEEEES!
> IRA basically admits they're war criminals

>>34653601

Its a great demoralizer, actually. Sowing your seeds among the enemy is a time honored tradition, and was only criminalized within the past two centuries in the west.

>>34652975
>You can't win a counterinsurgency war.

Ahem Malaysia for one of many examples of successful COIN.Go home begin again. You know nothing on the subject OP and need to shut the fuck up and let people who know their jobs win wars while you clap at the appointed time.

>>34653017
Not only is it possible, it is essential.

>>34652975
depending on your definition of the term it's happened at least twice in the last century.

>>34653017
I don't know, it's going great in Syria. You just have to be politically important enough to cancel out the international outrage.

>>34653973
Thing that never happened. The IRA were vicious savage an amoral as were the orange paramilitaries. The shoot to kill and stalker investigations just highlight the fact that English people don't consider the population of northern Ireland UK citizens with equal rights to a London muslim because people in South East England and London are a bunch of retards. A large part of the british militaries problems in Northern Ireland were brought on by blistering incompetence, poor leadership and ill discipline.

Should be you can't win against insurgents who have the support of the population.

Malayan Emergency communists weren't that popular, only mostly supported by the local Chinese.

>>34654453
>genocide in syria

u wot

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>>34654459
Look up 14MI coy "the det", the actions they took pretty much wrecked any credibility for 1st battalion intelligence corps to the point it had to be disbanded under the terms of the good friday agreements. Just like 1 Para and how it got re branded as SFSG

You have no idea what you're on about when you refer to "the south", what you mean are impoverished ethnic minorities in london who have no idea

And you have no ida about the british militaries incompetencies, i served there on the tail end of banner, and my father served a few deployments of NI. All the cards were played right, but the IRA always had a better hand.

>>34654597
>Malayan Emergency communists weren't that popular, only mostly supported by the local Chinese.
Thats because they removed the support, They basically removed homelessness and extreme poverty from malaya by use of construction projects to build entire small towns.

>>34653017
Tell that to the Christians in the middle east your deluded idiot

>>34654645
>Thats because they removed the support
Even if they didn't do that the communists weren't popular at all with the malays who were easily half of the population.

>>34653394
I'm Burmese, back in my hometown a few months ago, some Burmese soldiers stormed the town and arrested all the Muslim families. They were never seen again......

Ask me anything, I love in America now but I'm Burmese, I even have family in army and government positions

>>34653017
>doesnt even know that theres a literal genocide going on in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen as we speak.

>>34653394
I'm ignorant. Who tf is this?

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>>34654744
aunty Aung sang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi
Daughter of grandad aung san the main man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San#/media/File:Aung_San_BNA.jpg
He was minister of defence for occupied burma, until he led a rebellion against them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San

Hes the real life legate damar

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>>34654618
he's probably referring to Gassad barrel-bombing muh beautiful Al Nusra chillunz

>>34654655
There are no Christians in the Middle East. Only Muslims who are heretical. :)

>>34653495
Super Heavy Abrams M1A14

really cool look on that beast

>>34652975
You declare war on the country they reside in and then proceed to surround and starve it until they are reduced to eating the insurgents. A traditional siege is all you need!

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>>34653017
I'm not going to insult your intelligence by thinking you truly believed that when you posted it.

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>>34653017
>You literally cannot conduct a genocide today.
>literally

>>34652975

>Americans can't win a counterinsurgency

FTFY

It's perfectly easy for an intelligent military who's armies are made up of warriors, not rapists.

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>>34657922
>Mount and blade warband

My nigga

>>34653017
Unless you're Israel.