How long would it take to destroy all of best korea's artillery

>>34643631
most of the artillery pieces take 30 minutes to set up, and the US/SK are both on 5 minute alerts in some areas

Well, no. It's not as big a problem as it seems for a couple of reasons.
1. Even their closest, longest-ranged guns can only target the upper 1/3rd of Seoul. Whatever damage they can do will be relatively limited.
2. The North Korean dud rate is astounding, approaching 50%.
3. Modern counterbattery radars are extremely good at what they do. Consider the fact we had the first CB radars in the early 60s, and were capable of directing return fire as early as the 70s.
4. The presence of North Korean artillery is no secret by any means and both Sork and US forces are on guard for it at all times. Being a much more imminent threat than any NBC attack, Nork artillery never leaves the sights of US and Sork fire controllers.

The chances are actually pretty damned poor for the Norks. I think the last estimate I read was something on the order of a maximum of three hours before Nork artillery capability is reduced to 20% or less at the border, and I don't think that counts the deployment of US/SK strike aircraft after the initial fabled "seven minutes of hell".

>>34643663
and what if you set it up as "targer practice" or employ proper counter intelligence? then you have the problem
they fire their first wave. all SK/US assets start their counter attack.
they take 5 minutes to get jets fired up/into their tanks/ ships.
In that time the NK Arty keeps on shelling ..
and then they need how many minutes? 5? 10 ? to reach the positions.
it will definitly to significant dmg if they manage to hit.

>>34643681
>they take 5 minutes to get jets fired up/into their tanks/ ships.
by "5 minute alerts" i meant major counterbattery fire will begin within 5 minutes

>>34643663
>most of the artillery pieces take 30 minutes to set up
Lol no. 5 minutes tops and that's already a lot, SPGs can essentially just stop and fire.

>>34643689
Only if counterbatteries are ready to fire, if there are radars in the area and so forth. The worst Koreans took 13 minutes to begin counterbattery fires last time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong

>>34643689
ok, then its just 5 mins of shelling.
Depends then on planning and aim on the NK side. 5 minutes can be really long.

but why do SK not invest in a proper counter measure? germany developed turrets for FOB defence, who can intercept arty shells, mortars, rockets and bombs
Wouldnt that help with countering the Nork arty assets?

>>34643722
What makes you think they don't already have PDGs/CIWS already installed?

>>34643732
well i didnt hear about it yet, so i ust assumed they might not have em yet.
and that would make all the "what could the arty do"-shit pointless.

>>34643722
Turrets can't handle a proper concentration, unless you have multiple around each unit and then you're even more fucked if they've got stuff like DPICM or Bonus in their shells. They're more functional for stuff like FOBs in Afghanistan where any shells received are likely to be from a single, or couple tubes at most.

>>34643722
>five minutes can be really long
Not really. That's like one or two rounds per gun

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>>34644004
>That's like one or two rounds per gun

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>>34644004
>Not really. That's like one or two rounds per gun

>>34643631
There was a report done by a general who estimated that we would be able to destroy 1% of their artillery an hour, and would take up to a week to knock it all out, plus they have a 20% failure rate for shells.

Can't find it right now, but I will keep trying.

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>>34643631
>TFW pic related is becoming more of a historical simulation game by the minute.

Days, probably weeks

War isn't run on magic no matter how much tech you theoretically have to bear

>>34644464
How I miss lucasarts

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>>34644004

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>>34644464
It's also one of the most unknown classics of that era of gaming.

>>34644538
And Pandemic studios. :( They were a wicked duo.

>>34644621
>THQ will never come back

>>34644619
Unbelievable. I must have dumped thousands of hours into that game.

>>34643631
Not sure if this is similar enough of a topic, but why haven't we burgers turned Lesser Korea into an island yet?

>>34644749
DMZ politics.

I too wondered why the DMZ isn't a wide, deep, river.

>>34644749
>>34644756
Environmentalists would riot as the DMZ is a home to extremely endangered species.

>>34644799
the north koreans?

Why it is always supposed that the norks would begin an indiscriminate and blind artillery barrage on Seoul? Sure that would fuck up worst korean civilians but it has zero military value and sure as hell it would not force a capitulation.

If all those guns begin to fire suddenly they would be targeting military objectives near the border, not some random houses full of weebs.

>>34643743
SK has had domestic C-Ram since 2008. US forces stationed in SK have had domestic C-Ram since 2006. SK supposedly has land-based RIM-116 batteries for counter-rocket/counter-missile as well, and there are a combined total of over 300 Patriot batteries in SK among the various owners.

They're pretty fucking well protected.

>>34644863
>accusing the nork brain trust of any smarts

>>34644863
>Why it is always supposed that the norks would begin an indiscriminate and blind artillery barrage on Seoul?
Because that's what they have outright stated they intend to do multiple times with no deviance since the cessation of open hostilities in 1954.

>If all those guns begin to fire suddenly they would be targeting military objectives near the border, not some random houses full of weebs.
But multiple nations have independently verified that the majority of the Nork guns are pointed into the metro area of Seoul and NOT at military targets, both Kims have stated multiple times that if shit goes hot again they're shelling Seoul and only Seoul. The Norks don't WANT a military victory, they want to hurt the finances and morale of the Sorks as much as they can before being annhiliated and are willing to throw away the last shreds of possibility of a military victory in order to gamble on doing irreparable damage to the Sorks. They're basically using Seoul as a hostage to bargain with the world powers because they know that even without outside intervention they wouldn't be able to achieve military victory.

>>34644863
>Sure it would fuck up civilians but it has zero military value

That's essentially the Nork's military doctrine. It's just like how they keep threatening to nuke los angeles.

Once again though, unironically an indiscriminate artillery bombing of Seoul was a mission in >>34644464

2spooky.

>>34644863
Such a strike is the most damaging thing they can pull off bar getting a working warhead onto a working missile and slinging it somewhere, and as such is the best deterrent against theoretical South or US aggresion (ignoring that nobody in charge really wants reunification anymore due to all the massive social and economic problems that would entail).

If they used all those guns/rockets in a purely military oriented strike they cause a significantly smaller number of (mostly military) casualties, survive slightly longer because even with much of their gear being both ancient and shit they would presumably still cause some attrition on SK forces, but ultimately they still lose hard, pretty fast. Such a strike is no real threat to the South at all in military, financial or human terms so there's little point in threatening it being a possibility, or wargaming that scenario on a Sudanese nose-whistling forum.

>>34644004
hurr it's 1897

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>>34644724
Yea, I replayed it relatively recently on a ps2 at my ex's house.

It holds up suprisingly well. It's a shame mercs 2 got it so amazingly wrong.

>>34645447
Right? It's a testament to EA's Fuckupability skills.

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>>34645487
And that reviewers are shit. I get it the explosions are done really well and hijacking tanks is super cool.

But that's not what made the game feel good, that was the setting, atmosphere and overarching story.

Why does every idiot think the Norks will shell Seoul? What would be gained by destroying a population zone?

The purpose of artillery is to shell concentrations of soldiers; men and material.

>>34645764
>An oppressive country-state that Texas could rival
>Regularly threatening the world's military superpower as well as the coalition of 49 other states Texas is a part of.
>Being smart to any degree

The Norks just want attention.

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>>34645346

even back then higher rates of fire were possible

the 1904 QF 13 Pounder could fire 15 rounds per minute although batteries only carried 176 rounds per gun

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>>34643631
>How long would it take to destroy all of best korea's artillery pieces when they start targeting Seoul?
Approximately one week to eliminate the majority of the tube and rocket artillery able to range Seoul from the DMZ trace if things go well. Up to two weeks if there are complications.

>Wouldn't any kind of effort be too late, too few?
Yes.
A single DPRK volley of long range artillery, not including their missile force, would kill approximately 3000 if targeted counter-force and 30,000 if counter-value.
Furthermore the DPRK possess significant stocks of chemical agents such as VX and a large, mature missile force to deliver them with.

>I mean, even when they're all lined up like pic related, wouldn't it take a shitload of time before even the first one gets taken out?
No, ROK counter battery would start almost immediately.
That pic is for propaganda purposes. Operationally most heavy guns are placed in dispersed, hardened positions.

>And what if they involve some kind of sam/manpad defense?
DPRK air defense would significantly slow ROK/US air operations at the start of the war, mostly due to the sheer number of sorties required to dismantle it. Air defenses, even obsolete ones, must be suppressed or destroyed before the air campaign can shift to focusing on hunting artillery and other heavy equipment.

>>34644004

1 to 2 doesn't sound that impressive, when you have a massive volley like they do, that 1 to 2 adds up.

Also, you're retarded, you obviously pulled that number from your ass.

>>34646381
>>34643631
Since NK loves to show off these massive drills during their anniversary, as well as assembling ~40% of their missile force in their capital, why doesn't the US simply launch a concerted bombing campaign the moment they begin moving all these assets out of position and concentrate them in a small area? Plus their military will also be largely concentrated in Pyongyang, so a mass bombing campaign will more than decimate their military.

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>>34647882
All the assets are already in position, you can not kill the arty before it gets within range because it already is in range.

Current DRPK war plans, as far as they have stated, is attack with missile forces armed with whatever warheads are available (including nuclear) at the very start of the conflict to prevent US airpower from slowly grinding down the regime. The DPRK had people on the ground in Iraq in Gulf 1 and Northern Watch. They watched what happened to Saddam in 2003 and Qaddafi in 2011 and are not going to simply keep their conventional, VX and nuclear missiles on the ground while the US systematically bombs everything. Unlike most of their military the rocket forces are actually quite well funded and has a large number of capable SRBMs.

Current ROK/US war plans call for a decapitation strike, kill Kim before he gives the order to launch. The problems with this are fairly obvious, namely that we might miss and they may be a fail-deadly built into the North Korean command and control system. This is the only military solution and its a pretty shitty one.

>>34648295
All the more reason for us to engage in an all out first strike. Also, only their very biggest missile can carry nuke warheads.

Every anniversary they gather a large percentage of their missile forces in Pyonyang and if its as you say, then that would be the best time for 100 or so aircraft to bomb the shit out of the majority of their missile stock, and at the same time decapitate their regime and most of the senior officers.

This disorienting strike which attrites the missile forces, combined with a front wide arty engagement will cause massive confusion and panic, as well as causing massive losses to NK personnel. Again since we are assuming a US first strike, all the soldiers could be in their NBC gear in preparation of any counter strike with VX.

i wonder how many people would volunteer to fight for north koreans vs americans


i wish i could

>>34644856
I smirked

>>34643670
this

>>34649335
none

control your spastic wobbling

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>>34648981
>Also, only their very biggest missile can carry nuke warheads.

>>34644004
>Not really. That's like one or two rounds per gun
With smaller artillery pieces like 105mm Howitzers, U.S. guidelines during WWII stated 10 rounds per minute for ten minutes as the guideline maximum ROF. It was possible to almost double this for shorter periods. Crew exhaustion is also a factor to consider here. Larger pieces like 155mm Howitzers were listed at two rounds per minute for 10 minutes.

>>34649489
not sure about the state of their nuclear program but miniaturizing nukes isn't especially easy

still usa had rather small 1.5 kt nukes back in 50ss already, they even had air to air missiles with nukes back then

>>34645305
Officers who know they are going to be on the losing side tend to not hear orders that will get them hung for war crimes.

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>>34649529
>one round of 105 every 3 seconds

>>34646381
Only the koksan can reach Seoul at its extreme range with RAP rounds only, and not even all of it.

It has a blazing fast fireing speed of 1-2 rounds every 5 minutes.

Your shit is flawed.

>>34649547
implying officers who are not generals or something ever hung for war crimes

from a recent trial over cambogian war criminals

>Kang Kek Iew, or "Comrade Duch", was one of the leaders of the Khmer Rouge. He headed the Santebal—a special branch of the Khmer Rouge in charge of internal security and running prison camps. In addition, Kang Kek Iew ran the notorious Tuol Sleng (S-21) prison in Phnom Penh.
...
>His lieutenant Mam Nay, the feared leader of the interrogation unit of the Santebal, gave testimony on 14 July 2009 and, although implicated in hands-on torture and execution along with Duch, he was not charged.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_Tribunal

>>34649489
early nuke warheads, of the designs the Norks have weigh far more than the lift capacity of their SRBMs and most of their IRBMs. Only the recently shown Haswong-14 or their satellite lift missile can lift them.

Nukes are huge, and because of this the Norks really only have 10-20 delivery systems total for a nuke, which is hilariously less than the number of nukes they have.

>>34649697
>Nukes are huge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W25_(nuclear_warhead)

a nuclear warhead from 50ss which weights like 100kg

do you think they can't repeat something from 60 years ago?

>>34643722

Maybe it would seem like an escalation to the norks, like ABMs and SDI in the big Cold War.

>>34649599
Educate yourself.
http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/

>>34649724
Considering the pakis cannot, and the norks are using bootleg paki designs.... I'm going to go with they cannot.

Also all the older small warheads are composite warheads which means both enriched uranium and plutonium. Norks only have plutonium. SO again I'm going to go with no.

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>>34644464
You fucker...
I literally just googled this and it's on PC.
I WILL LIVE IN INFAMY AGAIN!!!

>>34649697
Experts put the likely weight of a North Korean device at ~500kg.

A Hwasong-5 (Scud-B) can carry almost 1000kg.

The norks are not so retarded that they do not tailor their warhead designs to their missile capabilities and vise-versa.

>>34649848
i wonder if there any game where you can play for north korean air force and to shoot down americans trying to bomb their missile units

>>34643631
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjoMQRUWEe8
how many do they have?

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>>34649997
You can, it's called Wargame Red Dragon!
Thought technically it is China, but I'm sure that it is nothing a few mods can't fix.

>>34650115
huh, apparently it has a north korean campaign too

>>34650115
b-but it's a fucking rts

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>>34650148
I played the shit out of the 1st game...
It was fucking insane to me, it not your typical RTS game and has a steep learning curve.
But, if you actually know a thing or two about military tech from the cold war, then it will pay off in this game. 10/10 am recommending.

Do you think the norks ever considered digging a long tunnel and sticking a nuke underneath Seoul? Is that even doable?

>>34650172
>multiplay based almost entirely on cheese/ bullshit units
>single play is literally retard AI who drives columns of light vehicles down roads into your troops head-on

mfw

6/10 but cool game nonetheless

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>>34650208
Like I said, I played the 1st game, Airland Battle. I own this one but haven't played it online much...

>>34650172
what's the source of that pic?

>>34643631
3 days of baiting them into moving their entire artillery from one side into another until they run out of fuel.

>>34643670
What is this "seven minutes in hell"?

>>34644004
but that's wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBjGyt0Ga9Q

>>34645346
that's an insult to the 1897
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmN9gkKQmRQ

>>34645346
More like 1830-some.

>>34650195

I guess the sorks have a shitload of ground sensors so if the ground is shaking, they will know they have sneaky norths underneath.

But man, digging a tunnel uner the enemy lines and then blowing it up ot just zerg rushing form the earth is cool as hell. Imagine 50.000 north koreans coming from a hole behind you screaming and shooting and biting. Hell on earth.

>>34650337

It's a play on words from the song "seven minutes in heaven" but also about the theorized amount if time for US and ROK CB and air assets to start destroying Nork artillery assets.

>>34651720

Every few years you hear about someone stumbling into an old invasion tunnel.

>>34650195
It's possible, but prohibitively expensive. Plus you'd trip every seismic sensor in the pacific rim.

>>34650337
It's when you play spin the bottle but it lands on your sister and she's not hot at all but you still have to go into the closet with her and then you find out that incest is her fetish and that she doesn't shave or trim.

>>34651743
Apart from the trimming bit, this is also my fetish

>>34652043
What's worse, to realize your fetish only to have it slightly twisted? Or to never enact your fetish at all?

>>34652065
It all falls apart at the part that I have a sister, because I unfortunately don't have one :'(

>>34649997
Falcon BMS has a Korean War in the 2000s scenario and you can fly Nork jets (with F-16 avionics)

>>34643631
Here anon, a decent analysis of the situation.
http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
Long story short, conventional nork artillery is not as big a deal as it's made out to be. But, even discounting nukes, the Norks have all manner of gases, and are suspected to have a biological programme.
They also behave like Autists all the fucking time which makes it hard to game their actions.

>>34643631
It will be nearly impossible without taking the ridges where the artillery is situated by way of land maneuver.
I was in an IDF artillery unit who's job was to suppress Syrian Artillery in case of war. We ended up using it against Hizballah at 2006 and shit didn't work to good even though on paper Syrian artillery is much more "complicated".
There is a huge difference between btfo conventional artillery positions to interfere with their ability to take part in combined arms and assist enemy maneuvers (btw, no sane artillery battery would be positioned like in your pic related because it will be eradicated few minutes after firing its firs volley) - and between taking out deeply tunneled, separated pieces that don't even give a shit where are they are firing to and at what timing as long as it's in a general direction of a huge city full of people. It's really like going in and killing individual mosquitoes. In conventional war you just break their ability to act together and support the enemy maneuver.
But this deeply dug pre built terror type shooting mode that is aimed as creating havoc and terror in civilian populations without doing any specific military damage is hard to counter without taking territory. To many individual pieces, most deeply dug in, some remote control or with crews that move between positions via tunnels.

>>34649547
Implying they will live long enough to be tried.

>>34643631
One a10 could clear that beach. Seriously doubt nk AA capability

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>>34643703
>Decisive DPRK Victory

Top fucking kek

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>>34649652
"Kang Kek"

>>34649542
Making reasonably small uranium bombs is easy. Making small plutonium bombs is trickier.

>>34650270
>the 1st game, Airland Battle.

newfag

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I think people always just forget about the sleeper cell factor in these Korea threads. Reminder that you cannot distinguish a North Korean from a South Korean if they were wearing the same clothes. Considering how many East Asian immigrants the US has been taking in the last decades, you also shouldn't be surprised if there are North Korean (and, while we are at it, Chinese) sleeper cells in the US. Think of Olympus Has Fallen but on steroids and not just on the White House

>>34654722
>get out of NK
>stay loyal to it
ehhh, no man.

>>34644863
>Why it is always supposed that the norks would begin an indiscriminate and blind artillery barrage on Seoul?

It's a deterrent. The cities nukes would hit during the Cold War are replacable, but it's still losing a bunch of massive cities, tons of civilian deaths, innumerable property damage and all sorts of other massive issues that are just severe enough not to want either side partake in the conflict.

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>>34643631

OP's image is a lubed up butt-hole.

Pic related

>>34655346
there's a north korea A-10 in that pic. Remember, they have spies everywhere.

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>>34655365

HA!

>>34644004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bbChtOr2xM
Please watch and think. And bear in mind that these guys are shooting two-piece shells.

>>34654722
hahahahahaha

>>34649547
>Officers who know they are going to be on the losing side tend to not hear orders that will get them hung for war crimes.

Then they got shot by the political commisar and the order is carried anyways.

Just one nuclear sub sitting off their coast (if it was ever necessary)