Is there any reliable source of breaching and room-clearing tactics

Go through the walls, throw in grenades, or set the house on fire / blow it up.

>>34613951
>Is there any reliable source of breaching and room-clearing tactics available to the common civilian, like myself?

Yes.

>>34613951
shoot through the wall with a gatling gun

>>34613951
You need grenades. Period. Anything else is just role playing autistics who think their militia group can take a fortified position.

>>34613984
>>34613982
>>34613969

What if you're working in an urban environment with the possibilities of noncombatants in the area

>>34613997
poke tiny holes in the wall. look through the holes. if you see an enemy, mark the spot where they would be with an x. then have you and your boys each shoot at an x on the count of 3. ez.

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>>34613997
Then those non-combatants should consider exfiltrating the area.

>>34613951
Set the house on fire and/or smoke them out.

>>34613997
throw in a warning grenade first

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>>34613951
Set the building on fire
wait at exits
???????
profit.

>>34613997
Stop caring and shoot anyway?

>>34614151
You really believe that every house is like your average american shack? Here in Europe once you remove the parquet on the floors and the furniture there is nothing left to burn. You might smoke them out but i doubt it would be that efficient, they could just throw your smoking bombs out.

>>34614211
Ok, i light garbage cans on fire and chuck them in the windows, please come into view to throw them back out.

>>34614006
With what, an impact drill and a half a metre long tungsten head drill bit?? Do you expect them to be deaf, blind and devoid of any other senses so they won't feel you drill thru the brick/reinforced concrete wall?
>>34614232
Why would they come into view, they can very well stay below the window's bottom and throw it out from there. But good luck to you coming so close to the house with a garbage can on fire in your arms that you can chuck it thru the window.

>>34613982
Unless you're in USA or you fire something bigger than nugget food that won't work at all.

>>34614246
it's a melty plastic trash fire, you don't get to touch it easily after it's lit, why would i light it before i'm right there. It's easy to avoid a window where you are, or have it covered as you move. If you are assaulting a building alone, you are retarded.

>>34614156

>t. American

I wonder why you've lost every war since the 40's...

>>34613997
Purify with fire. Honestly >>34613969 listed out the "safe" ways of room clearing as otherwise its just a mix of pie the corners and hope violence of action surprises every armed opponent long enough to drop (good luck and bring cats and quick clot gauze)

>>34614147
CS if you give a damn VX if you dont

>>34614569
By not taking our own advice and killing civilians indiscriminately like we should have. Gotcha.

>>34614147
Top kek

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>>34613951
>throw grenade(s)
>breach
>concuss and disoriented enemy
>spray everything

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>>34615241
>single man hiding in another room behind sandbags throws a cooked grenade into the room you entered

>>34613951

there is no such thing as 'room clearing tactics'. they are nothing more than a placebo given to cannon fodder to let them believe they aren't just walking into a meat grinder.

the concept of room clearing comes from early SWAT practice, where in 95% of cases they experience no determined resistance whatsoever.

if you're actually trying to enter a building full of men with guns who intend to fight you, your kill to death ratio will be a 1:1 at best.

in fallujah, when marines were going through buildings, they just set up a surgeon and triage outside every door they entered. #2 guy's job was to pull out #1 by his handle when he got shot up, which happens almost every single time without fail.

in WWII, it was understood combat doctrine that infantry could only move through urban areas as fast as you could supply them with grenades to toss into rooms.

'room clearing' is literally a suicidal meme.

>>34614246
He's a idiot referencing video games

>>34615329
>>in fallujah, when marines were going through buildings, they just set up a surgeon and triage outside every door they entered. #2 guy's job was to pull out #1 by his handle when he got shot up, which happens almost every single time without fail.
I've seen this referenced a couple times now, any source? any milfags want to verify?

>in b4 "my third cousin's uncle said it was shitty"

>>34613951
Setup loud speakers outside Al-la Operation Nifty Package and blare Look at my Hourse 24/7 until they surrender.

>>34615260
Such is war

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>>34615351
I wasn't in Fallujah, but I'll tell you right now that when we went with the infantry guys to do a raid (Engineer) and we started taking fire from a building, they would start nailing it with rockets, and then have us blow a hole in the wall so they didn't need to go through the door. Shit was pretty fun.

As far as I understand, frag and clear was the accepted doctrine for clearing rooms in WWII, but some more aspiring troop commanders would get the tanks to blast holes in houses, rake the hole with machine gun fire, and then rake any windows and doors in the rest of the house. Then the infantry would frag and clear.

Fuck room clearing though, for real. Shit sucks, yo.

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>>34615465
Avoiding doors was standard procedure in WW2 as well, with preference always being for breaching through the upper floors, either through walls, the roof or windows.

>>34615351
>>34615329
>I've seen this referenced a couple times now, any source? any milfags want to verify

I can 100% verify he's making up stupid shit and pulling it out of his ass.

>>34613951
>what is the ranger handbook
>what is official US Army/Marine Corps doctrine
>what are training classes
>what is google
>what are historical accounts of lessons learned

tl;dr tanks>rockets >>>> handgrenades >>>> 2-4 man rolling stack points of domination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"I read on /k/ that one man with a glawk and fleshlght is all u need"

>>34615548
You forgot "have the SeaBee's ram the building with a dozer".

>>34615329

Yup, making shit up or repeating lies.

>>34615329
>>34615351
>putting a surgeon in the middle of a combat zone
>just outside the door of snackbars that will blow themselves up for 72 11 year olds

>>34615563
Yeah, why not? What's wrong with placing one of the most valuable persons in a brigade on the frontlines?

>>34615507
That's still the case, we learned a lot of lessons from the ET. Getting on a roof and clearing down is the optimal way to clear, since it usually flushes the bad guys out into the cordon you have set up outside, and you don't corner them in a room on the second floor and have to fight upstairs against an enemy with his back to a wall.
>Get on roof
>drop grenades down into house
>bad guys run out
>cordon mows them down
>clear remaining rooms just to be sure
>rinse and repeat
It's not always doable, but it's the best way. Urban combat is a slug fest though, and you have to keep your guys rotated or they'll fatigue so fast they won't be effective for long.

>>34615329
this is probably correct, for counter-terror operations you shoot them from your side of the doorway or you throw explosives inside

>>34615558
Yes Don't forget ... unless the building is important ... just knock it down.

IDFs LASHAB uses armored bulldozers

>>34615588

everyone here has played call of duty, stop spreading bullshit. room clearing is something every good operator can do. you just shoot them before they shoot you.

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>>34615329
^this.

Most CQB techniques you can find on the internet are used or aimed for LE, in SWAT like units.
That means overwhelming advantage in number, weapons and setting of the intervention.
Thoses techniques were just designed to minimize as much as possible casualties in scenarios where victory isn't an issue anymore.

>>34613951
>Gold team Stack up
>Bang and clear on my order
>Doors locked sir
>Breach bang and clear on my order
>Go
>Hands up! Get on the ground!
Order brought to chaos

>>34615799

>hear the door jiggle
>dump thirty bullets through the door
>seven cops are hit several times, two are killed instantly and three will die within ten minutes
>more bullets come from windows at other cops and medical personnel
>three more people are struck. one will die after five minutes of bleeding and another will die after medical response is not forthcoming after twenty minutes
>everyone withdraws to a more distant perimeter, at a range where police can't easily see someone pointing a gun at them
>over the next hour four more police are injured, until the MRAP's arrive from the city
>in a blind, uncoordinated charge driven from desperation, SWAT drives up in armored vehicle and rams the living room wall, firing tear gas through windows, and wide suppression fire
>two more SWAT officers are injured in the ensuing chaotic melee

your current casualty count is sixteen serious injuries resulting in anywhere from a month to three years of rehabilitation. eleven officers and three medical responders have to be buried. two of the four hostiles are dead, one is injured and dies eventually, and the other isn't even ready for trial within a month due to cyrrhic sepsis.

this is what your plan looks like against determined resistance with automatic rifles. this isn't even considered that they might have rockets or grenades or IED's.

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>>34615794
Monsieur Pavel

>>34615912
Not even full auto rifles needed for this outcome just fuckers willing to fight

>>34616007

yeah they could have fucking mosins and it is going to cost you lives plural for every defender you dislodge.

room clearing is most successful on unoccupied buildings.

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>>34615912
Anon, I think he's referencing Swat, the video game. Please control your autism.

>>34616038

i'm going to ignore the fact that you're calling names because i don't know about video games.

but this is the realistic outcome of attempted 'room clearing' in a building containing determined resistance. which is what this thread is about.

the outcome is a whole lot of dead people.

>>34616062
Not in the game he's referencing though.

>>34616073

>>/v/

this is a board about guns and weapons. take discussion of video games to the board about video games.

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>>34616080

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>>34613951
A civilian shouldn't be breaching a room with armed hostiles
A civilian should get the fuck out and call the authorities

>>34616569

the authorities get killed doing it too.

there are zero people who can 'safely' 'clear rooms'.

>>34616589
I'm sure a logistical battalion's commander could scrounge up enough explosives to clear the entire building in one go.

>>34616596

that's room deleting, not room clearing. it's really a better concept.

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>>34614211
You'd be amazed how well European buildings burn.

>>34614211
>>34614291
You could probably throw a molotov into the window(s), that should be enough to set a proper fire to non-prepared buildings. If the defender prepared, he probably barred the windows.
>>34616615
Early 1900 houses full of wooden floors and furniture are not modern prepared houses.

>>34616615
>room clearing becomes room vaporizing
>street sweeping remains, but now you only have to sweep up the ashes of a hundred thousand civilians

like pottery

>>34615329
>>34615912

Like a warrior-poet once said, "Never get high off your own supply"

You really do believe the shit you're saying, huh?

>>34618647
>Like a warrior-poet once said, "Never get high off your own supply"
>You really do believe the shit you're saying, huh?

>>34615329
>in fallujah, when marines were going through buildings, they just set up a surgeon and triage outside every door they entered. #2 guy's job was to pull out #1 by his handle when he got shot up, which happens almost every single time without fail.

A quick google search on the number of buildings cleared in Fallujah and the number of Marine wounded and killed in Fallujah show that this doesn't match up. Unless you're going to argue that the Marines are either lying about how much of the city they cleared or about how many casualties they took?

>>34615912
>hitting seven targets in a blind burst

You were doomed in the first place because you're dealing with a demigod, not a mortal man

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>>34619022

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>>34613982

>>34614156
what if they're non-combatants on your side, i.e. your people are mixed in with theirs?

>>34613982
What do you mean? Why the USA? What about nugget food?

>>34615529
>I can 100% verify

I like how neither of you provide sources. It's literally he said she said.

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>>34615929
needs to be flipped horizontally

>>34620676
Je suis GIGN.

>>34619099

You heard what I said.

I'd be impressed with a single target hit with blind fire, let alone seven

>>34619099
Only a single person is in direct framing of the door, unless you're arguing that the shooter would be running around inside to change the angle of fire so he could cover all six guys in front

>>34613951

Have twice as many people on your team than exits. Throw up plywood over exits and nail them to walls. Set bodega aflame. Get pat on back by local pastor.

>>34620035
Breach from within. Duh.

>>34620035

Alternatively, shoot the guys on your side in the leg on the understanding they do not shoot back. As if they are a hostage.

>>34620791
Did you learn that in ATF school Mr ATFman? Did you qualify sharpshooter on the canid elimination course?

it really depends on the situation. room clearance is a dangerous game regardless of the scenario. all you really do is try to mitigate risk as much as possible with shit like cdats, grenades, bangers, dogs.

at the end of the day, if theres shit like IEDs or a hard barricaded resistance inside, the buildings gonna get dropped

>>34613951
>>34613951
Against a determined and non-shit enemy, you're going to lose one guy per room, even with grenades.
Pro-tip, for defending a room, never put yourself in that very room, but in the door opening of the next room.
First guy to enter will buy it guaranteed.
We did some training with simunitions and training grenades (grenades filled with white powder and a small black powder charge), and shit was insane already, so in a real world scenario it's pretty much a guaranteed bloody shitfest.

>>34622253

>One per room

I'm not even sure a worst-case scenario mission goes that fucking bad

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>>34615351
>Bro have you not seen the movie American Sniper? It was all clearly depicted for you in that film.
Honestly thats what comes to mind when I read this post.

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>>34615329
If the room to room combat in Fallujah was so bad, why didn't the Marines incorporate shields similar to those used by SWAT teams?

I get that SWAT tactics are not always transferable to military operations, but this seems to be one case where a specific tool (the shield) would have been useful for a specific battlefield (city wide room clearing)

>>34620780
I count 6 in front of the glass window. not even concealed

>>34623918

Door's already opened, breach has already occurred and that first room is cleared, that's why they feel safe mingling

>>34623683
Because you're being lied to. Even Fallujah was never as bad as "you'll lose one man for every enemy you breach"

>>34614147
you momma raised hersself a true gentleman.

>>34615329
there is a reason god created shotguns. this is that reason.

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>>34615329
you're fucking dumb as shit, go back to larping

>>34623683
It makes sense for SWAT because all they usually do is clear a building or worst case scenario, a city block, and that's usually it. If SWAT was going house-to-house and clearing several city blocks over several days, a shield would be nigh useless once it gets lit up. After that, you've still gotta lug the heavy thing over several blocks. It's the same decision as deciding whether or not you want to be a heat casualty in vietnam by wearing body armor or not. Not only that but I wouldn't even be surprised if they didn't have that shit.

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>>34615558

>>34614147
I chuckled

>>34615351

I dont know about the triage, but I would imagine hey always had a combat medic with them at he back, also can confirm mk19 is great for room clearing

>>34616707
>modern prepared houses.
full of plastic, insulation, flammable furniture.

>>34623932

We were always trained in any situation, expect point man to go down, because if the enemy sees you start to come in ,they start spraying the door, which means that any thing not bullet proof gets instantly bulleted.

With enough speed and skill, you can distract the enemy and possibly not get them to spray

>>34613997
You drop a barrel bomb on the building from a helicopter like the Philadelphia cops did that one time.

>>34625140
Most furniture is mandated fire retardent as is insulation. Plastic doesn't burn at that temperature, it only melts.

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>remote detonating C4 drone like the cops used on that one guy

I remember reading somewhere that the Russians used artillery strikes against the Chechens, because they would camp out of basements and the tanks could not elevate guns or turn in tights streets to engage, so the best option was just to level the building

>>34615329
I was a corpsman with the 2MRB in Iraq and Somalia. I second the room clearing with judicial application of long range ordinance. In regards to the triage, no you did not set up a triage but needless to say I was rarely in the stack.
Side note, Chris Kyle was an adequate SEAL, great sniper, and not especially liked.

>>34625210

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piofZLySsNc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsaLCdC3iWw

>>34625231
Chris Kyle was a shitstain piece of shit who should've been hung the second he got stateside.

>>34616615

> Discussing flammability of European houses
> Scenario involves at most a handful of knowledgeable militias equipped with 40oz kerosene/gasoline Molotovs
> Brings up massive Allied firebombing raids in which 1200+ aircraft released 3,900 tons of combined conventional and special-purpose incendiary munitions over the course of 48 hours on top of a densely packed city with rowhouse and apartment-flat architecture.
> Claims that European buildings burn well.

Can you please fill in your DNR application, and then ask your registered nurse to unplug your life support machines? The autism has finally conquered you, good lad.

>>34615912
>hear the door jiggle
>dump thirty bullets through the door
>it was just Susy coming back from her Pilates class
>SWAT bags and tags you while you're crouched over your waifu's cold corpse crying deeply

>>34614211
Yes, of course, you superior continentals certainly don't have any overlap in building materials and methods with London.

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>>34613951
>breaching and room-clearing tactics

It's called artillery strike. US armed forces learned the hard way in Iraq/A-stan when they got their asses shredded when "slicing the pie" and doing other ill-conceived nonsense imported by Jeff Cooper-esque mongoloids from civilian LEO application....

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>>34613951
>room-clearing tactics

stand outside and tell your machinegunner to shoot the building at least 500-1000 times, paying close attention to corners and the sides of windows

>>34615329
>there is no such thing as 'room clearing tactics'.

Sure there are, and those tactics change depending on the mission. If you're in the hostage rescue business, you take more risks in order to try and save the hostages, but if you're in combat against enemy infantry, you reduce risks and focus more on force protection.

>>34625812
>If you're in the hostage rescue business, you take more risks in order to try and save the hostages

Aha. Like they did in WACO? Claim what you want, in the end, it turned out to be a kill them with fire/bombard them/cut them down with heavy MG fire type deal. Actions count, words and claims are meaningless.

>>34625843
>Like they did in WACO?

The ATF is NOT in the hostage rescue business, which is why they failed miserably.

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>>34625868
>The ATF is NOT in the hostage rescue business, which is why they failed miserably.

That's not what they will tell you if you ask. If you ask, they will claim every possible competency under the sun. and if they don't then clearly they should not have been allowed to run that shitshow and heads should have rolled. ATF figurehead heads.

>>34625868
In fairness they had both FBI hostage rescue teams on location and having all the FBI's HRT capability hanging out at Waco was one of the reasons they gave for going full retard.

Sending one of the teams elsewhere was apparently not possible in the commander's mind. Again, because he pulled the same shit 6 months before at Ruby Ridge.

90's era federal law enforcement was such a shitshow.

set the house on fire lik the po leece

>>34626035
>That's not what they will tell you if you ask.

Of course not.

>>34626423
90's era federal law enforcement was such a shitshow.

Thank Bill Clinton for that.

Thank Donald Trump for saving us from his wife.

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>>34625251

How many of your sons couldn't complete their suicide runs because Kyle took them out first?

>>34628703
3.5

>>34615574
nothing at all anon. theyve gotta get medals somehow

>>34625117
From what book anon? Sorry if dumb question. Interested in reading it, even if info is outdated/bad.

>>34615329

this is, hands down, the trolliest thing i've read in a while

>>34614569
Having to act like we care is the bigger problem. Can't do the ol slash and burn anymore

>>34613997
>noncombatants
I believe the word you're looking for is acceptable causalities

>>34625165
please define what is a barrel bomb

>>34631394

see >>34614569

>>34631514

Take a barrel. Stuff it with one part explosives, one part shrapnel. Drop it over a heavily urbanized area.