"Most people survive gun shot wounds", this is true.

>>34606995
Depends. That being said, surviving a shot to the head is pretty fucking metal. She's def hardcore as fuck to pull through as good as she did.

>>34606995
The human body (like that of any vertebrate animal) will continue to live until the brain stem is destroyed or runs out of oxygen. Since a direct hit to the brain stem is unlikely, that practically means that people don't die from gunshot wounds until they bleed to death. The idea that people just drop dead is just in the movies. Real life isn't like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk

Was talking to a cop who recently responded to a girl getting shot clean through the head, pretty similiar to Giffords in wound locations. Her boyfriend shot her with 9MM ball ammo and he was conscious and speaking when officers arrived, and was lucid enough to talk. He said she was actually being a cunt; uncooperative and didn't want to implicate her boyfriend.

Just had me thinking, had it been expanding ammo her brain would have been jelly, right?

>>34607053
She wasn't shot in the head. That's a lie

most people get shot with lol only 9mm

>>34607053
>She's def hardcore as fuck
She's a hardcore cunt. That's about it.

>>34607123
Meant she*

>>34607112
Wouldn't that be misleading because it's really easy to stop the brain from getting oxygen just by winging vitals?

Let me bounce a question off you guys real quick:
Would not a varmint bullet be the best for self defense? They're made for massive expansion and rarely exit, so you wouldn't need to worry *that* much about overpenetration, while making mush of whatever living tissue you hit.

>>34607123
Brains are simultaneously fragile and really tough. Destroying chunks of it can just result in the rest of it fixing connections around the broken parts (Eventually), and there are no nerve endings in it. In fact, many brain surgeries happen with the patient completely conscious, so the surgeon can ask questions, get responses, and make sure they didn't just scramble something by accident.

>>34607157
Except it isn't. A lot of people get shot and then make it to the hospital in time. Trauma surgeons are pretty damn good at replacing lost blood, enough to buy enough time to patch people up.

>>34607164
Assuming you had adequate penetration and a rifle to shoot it out of, yes.

Actually FMJ is often a better choice. He'll, I cc with fmj because you can rely on the penetration under a far greater variety of situations

>>34606995
>Most people survive gun shot wounds
... If they reach a hospital

>>34607181
They also tend to get really freakish after physical changes.
People who have completely separated hemispheres are basically two people in one body, but only one of them gets the language center. Close the right eye and write "draw a picture of a dog", and only their left hand will draw it. Have them open their right eye and verbally ask them why they drew a dog, and they won't be able to explain it, because the side of the brain that has words did not experience the command and had no part in drawing the dog.
This can result in strong disagreements, and in some rare cases, the right hemisphere has been known to grow temperamental and suicidal with its near complete inability to communicate with anyone.

>>34606995
Most people think gunshot wounds are serious so they go to the hospital. It's the opposite of a stabbing or walking pneumonia where people think they can work through it somehow.

>>34607232
Do you carry .32 short or something?

>>34606995
They only suvive because they get to hospital ASAP, because they're afraid of dying from a gunshot wound

>>34607053
>def hardcore
>>>/tumblr/

>>34607291
Yes. Stopping power is a meme.

>>34607291
Nope, 9mm. But it's still true, just less of an issue of course

>>34607269

Another anon here, sounds interesting anon, going to read more into it, thanks

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>>34607053
>pretty fucking metal. She's def hardcore

Who fucking talks like this?

Surgeons are drunk unstable psychopaths that rape death for fun.

Thats your answer.

>>34608117
haha that is the perfect snake gif

>>34606995
It's because most are shot with pistols

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>>34606995

emt here,

>Is the only reason because most dumb shit gangbangers and criminals use ball ammo?

usually they use the cheapust ammo for muh problem solver.

any type of self defense ammo usually costs 2-3x as much as regular ball, and gangbangers think that guns instakill like in vidya and movies

this results in overall high survivability, especially with lower calibers.

>>34606995
I saw some statistic that being shot with a pistol is 9/10 survivable, while being shot with a rifle is 1/10.
Its probably BS, but has anyone else seen/heard this?

>>34608137
Poor death getting robbed of so many friendos due to medical advancements :(

>>34607053

Maybe she's a reptilian and just regenerated the damaged tissue.

>>34606995

It's because most gunshot wounds are some retard spraying at someone and happening to hit their ass cheek at complete random rather than a headshot or even center mass.

>>34607232
>penetration meme
Stop dude

>>34606995

It's because the vast majority of gun crime involves handguns, which are pretty bad at killing people. Especially when you only hit the target once or twice with poorly aimed shots because you're an untrained gangbanger.

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>>34606995
>People been using ball ammo fine and killing people throught the years
>Suddenly when JHP are introduced everyone claims ball ammo is no good and won't kill

>>34607112
came here to post this. pretty good watch.

>>34607186
>>34607157
that being said, a lucky shot in a serious artery would have them bleed out in a few minutes unless a TQ was applied, or possibly pressure, but a serious wound such as that wouldn't be staunched with just holding a bandage on the wound.
Even a shot to the head in the right place would leave them still alive, though ability to do anything but lay there and bleeed out would depend entirely on the specific location and available medical assets.

>>34610661
This is why I carry a flintlock

>>34606995
People survive gunshot wounds because medical science has advanced to an almost unbelievable degree and EMT response time is damn near negligible in most places. Ammunition choice is almost irrelevant next to that.

Shot placement still counts, though.

>>34606995
I would like to have angry sex with her while she talks dirty to me with that brain damaged potato voice. Do you think her moans and panting also sound retarded? I'd like to find out.
Damn, why is this woman so attractive?!

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>>34613738

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>>34613738
>>34613774

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>>34613774
>>34613778
>>34613738
I want to hear her moan in potato; doesn't feel wrong.

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>>34613738
>>34613774
>>34613778
>>34613784
This is probably the face right here.

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>>34607181
>In fact, many brain surgeries happen with the patient completely conscious, so the surgeon can ask questions, get responses, and make sure they didn't just scramble something by accident.

Jesus

>>34610715

EMT here.

This is mostly true. You underestimate how long someone can survive, even with a major blood vessel injury. Assuming someone takes reasonable measures to preserve their own life immediately after injury, someone can survive around an hour with a reasonable chance of survival using direct pressure alone, even if an artery is severed.

There are a few exceptions. The femoral and carotid artery, as well as the aorta are death within minutes tier, depending on the damage. And even the first 2 can be stemmed with direct pressure if the damage isn't too severe. The aorta is a dead in second sort of deal. Like you could be shot on the operating table already cracked open and you aren't going to make it

>>34613793
Doctor literally pokes around on your brain and maps it according to your reaction.

>please count to 100
1, 2, 3,,,
>poke poke poke
4, 5, blahrrblatherhurr
>okay that's the speach part, put a label on it.

>alright now tell me as soon as your vision is all messed up.
>poke poke poke

>>34606995
Simple. Death is not a wound.

>>34613915
>dead in a second
Not true. Baboon Martin was shot in the Aorta at muzzle distance. He was sitting up and talking for almost a minute, and took almost 4 minutes to expire fully.
Incapacitating? Absolutely(although if he had a gun he could have probably still wildly magdumped. Dead in a second? No. Even with your heart blown out you will still live, at very least for a few seconds.

>>34606995
The main thing to remember is that handgun calibers just are not that damaging.

The relative low velocity and large mass tend to result in small contained wound cavities, opposed to a rifle round going 3 to 4 times faster with fragmentation or tumble which will result in more bleeding that is harder to repair.

>>34614017
Cardiovascular pathologist here
it depends entirely on where you get shot
if you're shot in the ascending aorta on the proximal side upstream of the brachycephalic artery or left common carotid, you'll lose consciousness within seconds and die soon after
if you're shot distal to the BCA and LCC, after the left subclavian or in the descending aorta, it may take one to several minutes to lose enough blood that you're hypovolemic and die

Generally a shot to the ascending aorta will always cause unconsciousness under a minute - shots to the descending aorta are slower but equally as serious

>>34614020
Would it be possible to design a handgun round to yaw like a rifle round will, or is expansion better?

>>34607129
You mean half her brain's been missing before she even went into politics?
I believe it.

>>34614368
>Would it be possible to design a handgun round to yaw like a rifle round will
Yes, 5.7x28 and 4.6x30 were developed for that very purpose (in addition to armor penetration).

>>34614434
How do those compare in regards to permanent wound channel relative to self defense rounds?

>>34607157
It takes ~4 minutes for the brain to start shutting down from oxygen deprivation

>>34614352
This dude has it. Had a buddy working on a car and a freak accident involving the parking break failing ended up with his leg through the windshield.
It sliced his femoral artery completely open. He died within a minute according to EMT's. He was unconscious within seconds.

>>34609868
I have not seen any statistics, but I would say that rifles are less survivable than pistols due to more force being applied, now whether it is 9/10 vs 1/10- I've got no fucking clue.

>>34614017
>>34614352
Does Adrenalin change the timing at all? Like if someone got shot out of the blue vs someone who got shot knowing that he was in the middle of a firefight.

>>34607053
Hello fellow whites

>>34609868
Not sure on the actual numbers but yes, its extremely rare for someone to live after being shot in the head with a rifle, discounting things like glancing hits to the side of the jaw. Even pistol rounds generally considered powerful like .357 and 10mm pale in effect to the average rifle, 5.56 and 5.45 will cause nearly unsurvivable wounds if they hit the brain and .308 etc. pretty much cause the head to explode most of the time

/r/ing that picture from the emt reference book of someone that took a .303 to the forehead

>>34614511
And it can take significantly less time than that for the body to shut down to the point where the brain has no input or output.
It's assumed that you could still be conscious for a minute or two after death, with no senses or ability to move whatsoever. I don't think it's ever been proven though, and it seems like the kind of thing medical morals would prevent anyone from really testing out. You'd have to be hooked up looking for brain signals as the patient is dying, and usually doctors are too busy trying to save them to have an active MRI on.

>>34607112

I've killed a lot of shit and there are plenty of times where death is not instantaneous, but damn near.

>>34606995
If she was shot by a competent marksman, she would be dead. She got lucky that she was shot by a drug addled lunatic leftist.

>>34616229
The adrenaline response is pretty automatic. Your body can detect a loss of blood volume and compensate on it's own using adrenaline. There isn't really a scenario where adrenaline isn't involved

>>34613934
Holy fucking shit, and I'm scared of getting lasic eye surgery

>>34613793
The brain doesn't feel pain.

>>34606995
>Is the only reason because most dumb shit gangbangers and criminals use ball ammo?

It's because modern medicine is so good.

>>34621025
>barely can implant some crap unstead of a lost teeth
>can't even treat shortsightedness directly, without mutilating your cornea
>good

>>34607123
If it were a .22 her brains would have been mush.

>>34606995
Most gunmen aren't properly trained with guns

>>34607269
It's called aphasia.

There are many different types and global aphasia is the worst.

>>34620767
Never trust surgeons, the ones who get anywhere are literal sociopaths

>>34621062

How stupid are you?

>>34614352
English, please... I'm a welder...

>>34621062

How stupid are you?

>>34621245

He's being an elitist cunt that all (insert system) techs are. He's saying it depends on whether you get shot above or below the heart. If you get shot above the heart, it's really bad. If you get shot below, it's less bad. But still bad

>>34621237
no, how stupid are you

our modern medicine that you praise barely can treat wounds and some diseases, the only thing it's semi good at it's overcoming parasitical and bacterial infections and doing some simple surgery, it can't even sufficiently fight virus infections leaving aside to restore even a lost teeth the more so finger

>>34609868
Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk

Handgun stopping power is a myth, if you want to kill use a rifle

>>34621367
Do some research.

You'd be right if this were 1992. Things have moved quickly in the field of medicine

>>34621434
call me when they actually do something useful with stem cells etc crap

>>34620767

Lasic isn't bad. I had my thumb chopped off once and thankfully got it back thanks to a competent surgeon. He was completely calm through the entire thing too, just kept saying "chill man you'll have your thumb back in a minute".

>>34606995

It's because most attacks use pistols, and pistols kinda suck in general.

The Golden Hour is a thing, and even in shitty places in America you can get to a hospital in under an hour most of the time.

>>34621487
yeah, they can sew it back if it didn't get rotten

if it did you are out of luck

lasic does nothing about the shape of your eyeball which caused the sight change so your retina remainws at risk and also the shortsightedness can proceed again

to get you a missed tooth the best method it's a screw made of titan which also can be lost in a few years etc etc

>>34621468
Oh, you mean how they managed to make synthetic stem cells a year and a half ago, thus removing the controversy surrounding taking them from aborted fetuses?

>>34621619
doesn't matter from where they take them, they couldn't manage to use them as promised yet, to grow new organs etc

>>34610761
A flintlock will kill you just as dead today as they'd kill people on the battlefield 200 years ago.

>>34621062
>good
Yes good, as in: More than 80% of gunshot wounds are survivable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk

>>34614511
>It takes ~4 minutes for the brain to start shutting down from oxygen deprivation

It can take less than 5 seconds to lose consciousness from a rapid loss of blood pressure.

>>34621367
>our modern medicine that you praise barely
> can treat wounds and some diseases, the
> only thing it's semi good at it's overcoming
> parasitical and bacterial infections and doing
> some simple surgery

You are _literally_ retarded.

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>>34608117
children

>>34621679
https://stemcellres.biomedcentral.com/

Look again. Shits gone haywire since that happened. It very well could be the best advance in medicine since penicillin

>>34610661
Why does Ed Harris look so good in a German Uniform?

>>34606995
Most people survive GSW because they are shot with handguns. Handguns CATEGORICALLY suck sweaty shit at killing people.

>>34616820
>.303 to the forehead

See all of WWI for reference

But really, I'd like to see that. Sounds intense.

>>34621731
well, can it, say, transplant a whole eye?

>>34621831
I've seen an accidental .243.

It's messy. He didn't make it

>>34607164
Soft points my man

>>34617427
this

I have shot lots of ducks where by the time i get in the water to pick them up they are already dead. If it gets hit in the heart its gonna be basically dead in a few seconds.

>>34621837
Yup

>>34621941
in a decade maybe
but then remains the question of the late stage cancer etc

>>34621519
Most attacks use 9mm pistols with the shittiest ammo available. Thats why you get a lot of fuddyfive fags reaching the conclusion that jails are full of 9mm survivors, thus 45 must be superior.

>>34621816

Everyone looks good in German uniforms.

>>34613774
Is that target armed with a Calico?

>>34621715
loss of conciousness isn't brain death though

>>34610715
>>34607157
>>34613915
>>34614017
>>34614352
Never say never. When I was doing my trauma rotation we had a patient come through who'd been shot twice in the chest; first bullet shatted his sternum and tore through the right ventricle, second clipped the base of his aorta, opened up a .45 sized hole in the side of it and completely shredded one of his coronary arteries.
Somehow he was still fucking conscious when the EMTs arrived. Survived the op too (can't be sure he survived the ICU stay afterwards though).

The human body can be amazingly resilient. If you jump on pubmed you can find a fair number of case reports of patients stabbed or shot in vital organs who survive long enough to run for help or fight off their would-be murderer. Stress is on the 'can be' though - some people will die from a .22 to the extremities or an unlucky punch.

>>34621977
It's to put new shooters at ease, they're less likely to flinch if they see the target it pointing a gun at them that has a fifty-fifty chance of firing.

>>34621333 almost
>>34621245
Aorta is the big artery that carries oxygenated blood from your heart to everywhere else in your body. What he's talking about is whether it's damaged before or after it's given off the vessels to upper body (including your brain) - obviously blood flow to your brain drops much faster if the bullet hole is before.

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>>34624222

>In 1848, Gage, 25, was the foreman of a crew cutting a railroad bed in Cavendish, Vermont. On September 13, as he was using a tamping iron to pack explosive powder into a hole, the powder detonated. The tamping iron—43 inches long, 1.25 inches in diameter and weighing 13.25 pounds—shot skyward, penetrated Gage’s left cheek, ripped into his brain and exited through his skull, landing several dozen feet away. Though blinded in his left eye, he might not even have lost consciousness, and he remained savvy enough to tell a doctor that day, “Here is business enough for you.”

>Gage’s initial survival would have ensured him a measure of celebrity, but his name was etched into history by observations made by John Martyn Harlow, the doctor who treated him for a few months afterward. Gage’s friends found him“no longer Gage,” Harlow wrote. The balance between his “intellectual faculties and animal propensities” seemed gone. He could not stick to plans, uttered “the grossest profanity” and showed “little deference for his fellows.” The railroad-construction company that employed him, which had thought him a model foreman, refused to take him back.

>>34606995
It's cause they can't aim (and use 9mm).
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20Ballistics%20as%20viewed%20in%20a%20morgue.htm

>>34621837
Anon, a guy in South Africa got a full on dick transplant. It's fully functional and he used it to knock a chick up.

>>34608748
This. South Side Chicago here. Couple weeks ago we had thirty people get shot over the weekend and only four or five fatalities. Most wounds were superficial. Gangbangers shoot at people they don't recognise from SUVs and then speed off. According to reports, a lot of the time they don't even hit anything.

>>34607164
1. Lean to google faggot
2. no
3. Shot placement>penetration>expansion
4.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

>>34607232
Fucking retard.

>>34609868
The first one has some basis in reality. IIRC the fatality rate for a single uncomplicated GSW to the abdominothoracic area is ~20%. Funnily enough a knife wound in the same are is ~30%. So more like a 1/5 chance of death, but those are kinda meaningless stats.

>>34614017
That sounds pretty wrong. Severing the ascending aorta completely results in unconsciousness and death in a matter of seconds. In fact hitting somebody in a lower part of the heart(ex nicking a ventricle) typically takes longer to kill them than the ascending aorta. I'd like to see a source on that.

>>34614352
Random question: Ever heard of the MCMAP neck chop? supposedly a sharp blow to the carotid sinus can typically(but not always) result in a baroreceptor reflex causing almost immediate syncope. Do you think that such a reflex could sometimes be caused by the passage of rounds through or near blood vessels such as this part of the carotid or similarly equipt parts of the aorta?

>>34614474
Not him but both have a poor reputation for stopping people in OIS incidents. can dig up a relevant quote if you want.

>>34621245
>>34621333
Hes saying that if you get shot in the ascending aorta AFTER the heart, but BEFORE the aorta has the branches that go off to feed your brain(and some other things) then you die really quick. Any point after that kills you less quick.