Why did direct blowback submachine guns dominate? I understand

>>34591331
You answered your own question OP, the weight is about the same as a service rifle and it adds to recoil management. The shear simplicity of direct blowback trumps any weight savings of other designs.

Cost, as with all government issued garbage.

You don't think snipers would love to be issued a custom fitted competition rifle with a Kreiger barrel, and $7,000 worth of glass on top?
2 bad have this shitty rustington 700 refit

You don't think rifleman would love to be kitted out with drones, airbust grenades, plastic fantastic rifles, super advanced night vision and thermal?
Too bad, have this colt from 1981 that is somehow not broken yet, get your ass in the non armored humvee, with the rusty m2 mount, and grinding transmission, and go assault that enemy position fuckface.

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Also subguns are sexy as fuck. Fuck the NFA for making them far too expensive.

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>>34591331
Open bolt guns are very very simple to make and even simpler to make work. Ideal for countries with material issues. A locked breech sub machine gun is superior in nearly every way, but many countries producing sub machine guns from the 20's to the 70's were not producing them to be techincal marvels, but guns that needed to work and be made quickly
A open bolt submachine gun will do all the things a closed bolt one will do.

>>34591380
Then why are MP5's so popular? The unit cost for one of those has to be about the same as a gas operated design. Granted, the retarded blowback doesn't have all the disadvantages of a direct blowback design.

>>34591527
Reliability for one. The MP5 is pretty much just a G3 scaled down to use 9mm. I know HK reliability is a meme, but those roller delayed blowback systems remain functional through ridiculous levels of abuse. They make tradeoffs with weight and accuracy, but with a 9mm platform being inherantly small and the close-in role a SMG is designed to fill, these are frequently deemed acceptable tradeoffs.

Additionally, the training commonality from a G3 to a MP5 is basically the same thing, which was a big selling point for the Germans, which gave the MP5 a level of popularity and visibility, and then it just became the default because everyone else was using it, even after the Germans weren't using the G3 as their primary rifle.

>>34591331
Accuracy is far less important in submachine gun than a rifle

>>34591527
The MP5 is only popular in popular culture and SWAT teams. It's never fought in a world war.

>>34591677
Well yeah, it's not an infantry rifle. They're still incredibly common, in basically every civil affair.

>>34591331
>Cheap to make raw materials wise
>can be made by unskilled labor
>high ROF
>low shooting skills required - less training time


You may notice that the big scale use of blowback submachine guns declined after WW2. Its because they were "good enough" for an all out war where there was need to arm several million people. But after that everyone found out that open bolt, blowback is neither safe nor accurate enough for the weapon of a peace time army.

Also stamping techniques became widespread, making it possible to built ""real"" rifles, machine guns with the same efficiency as the subguns. Thus rendering them more or less obsolete.

WW2 was THE big time for open bolt subguns, but the times are over. And unless we see another war that scale, they will remain over.

>>34591677
Neither has the AKM, nor the M16.
Also never used in a world war: SAMs, anti-ship missiles, GPS, helicopters, missile-armed fighter jets, night vision optics, laser-guided munitions, main battle tanks....the list goes on.

"Used in a world war" is a shitty metric to determine the effectiveness of a weapon, dipshit.

>>34591331
Weight is easier to deal with in a more compact package. Simple physics, shorter moment arm means less rotational force.

>>34591578
You cant more reliable than direct blowback and somehow the Germans made an over engineered gun that weighs about the same as a direct blowback with a gas system that could take more than 9mm but still refuse to move on to any other caliber because of their German autism.

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>>34591743
SAMs, helicopters and night vision all saw use in WWII.

Anti-ship missiles sorta saw use, depending on the definition. The Fritz-X was a gided anti-ship glide bomb, and the Ohka was a manned one anti-ship missile.

>>34591885
SAMs, in the modernly-recognizable form of a guided missile that tracks a target aircraft using radar or IR homing, were not deployed in WW2, full stop. If you're talking about the Wasserfall, which fired volleys of dumb rockets, you're being disingenuous.

The Fritz-X was an early form of PGM I'll give you that but it really wasn't an "anti-ship missile" as you'd call it today, it has more in common with a JDAM than an Excocet or Harpoon. The Ohka was a suicide craft, part of what makes a missile a missile is that it's not piloted by a person, but guided remotely or self-correcting through built-in tracking systems.

As for the vampir and the FA223, ah yes, I forgot about the night-vision-armed air cav sturmtruppen that successfully drove back American troops during the Battle of the Bulge, silly me.

quick research reveals the vampir (an IR scope) did indeed see combat on the eastern front, I guess I'll have to concede you that one too. But my point still stands, whether or not something was used in a world war is still a shitty metric of effectiveness.

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Because it's easy as fuck to build and very simple to fix any problems with it.


I built my own Uzi with a $100 parts kit and I bought a McKay Uzi Receiver & SA Bolt off Gunbroker for a hot $250 -- came with 7 mags too from a guy who bought it but never built it.
The hardest part was tack welding in a small blocking bar to make sure I couldn't engage it into full auto (even though it was a SA receiver & SA bolt assembly). After that, I just had to dremel it down so the sear would pass overhead.
All in all with the help of YouTube it took me an hour to figure out.
But now that I know every single part to an Uzi, I can very easily completely strip and put together an Uzi in 10 minutes. They're insanely easy.
Also, it doesn't get as dirty as you think. I only ever shoot Tula through mine and the only thing that typically needs to be cleaned is the barrel (which you can unscrew off in 10 seconds) and then I like to wipe the inside of the bolt with oil.
That's it.
I recommend these over an AR "ghost gun" build. All the parts just snap together besides the blocking bar.

>>34592219
What did you do for the semi-auto trigger group?

How did you go about making the receiver? Stamping, or weld?

>>34591425
Skorpion is a shit.
>firerate controlled by a weight bouncing up and down
Sure, that'll help accuracy.

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>>34592021
>SAMs, in the modernly-recognizable form of a guided missile that tracks a target aircraft using radar or IR homing, were not deployed in WW2, full stop. If you're talking about the Wasserfall, which fired volleys of dumb rockets, you're being disingenuous.

Surface to Air Missile. Doesn't matter if it's guided; it matters what it's intended to attack.

>The Fritz-X was an early form of PGM I'll give you that but it really wasn't an "anti-ship missile" as you'd call it today, it has more in common with a JDAM than an Excocet or Harpoon. The Ohka was a suicide craft, part of what makes a missile a missile is that it's not piloted by a person, but guided remotely or self-correcting through built-in tracking systems.

Again you are the one being disingenuous. A missile is still a missile if a person, computer, or bat guides it.

>As for the vampir and the FA223, ah yes, I forgot about the night-vision-armed air cav sturmtruppen that successfully drove back American troops during the Battle of the Bulge, silly me.
Silly you, indeed.
>quick research reveals the vampir (an IR scope) did indeed see combat on the eastern front, I guess I'll have to concede you that one too.

and boom goes the dynamite.

>But my point still stands, whether or not something was used in a world war is still a shitty metric of effectiveness.

No, no it does not.

>>34592736
That is a retarded way determining whether or not something is good though

>>34592293
Not him but mcckay sells a pre welded receiver. Putting those together is almost as simple as constructing an AR

OP, the various 'alternative' smg designs didn't take off for a pretty simple reason: they are not a normal soldier's weapon. The great thing about an smg was and is the ability to make rapid fire in close quarters. That is, it was great when the alternative was a bolt or semi auto rifle. Then two things changed. 1. infantry rifles became able to give rapid fire and 2. combat, which had been a long range affair until ww1, stopped being a short range affair by the end of ww2. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria - very little of all this combat has actually been fought in mass attacks at close range, or indoors, or in trenches. A soldier in any of these conflicts would be better served with a rifle than with a smg because most of the shooting will be done at mid to long range.

Smgs still serve a purpose of course. But that is as a SWAT cop's tool, or in the hand of a Close Range Special Forces operator. And their encounters are normally so brief that the weight of their killing tool is not top priority.

>>34591677
So Nuggets are better than SAMs? Nuggets were used in a world war. SAMs weren't.

>>34591527
95% of the reason the MP5 is popular is because of the Iranian Embassy Siege. The whole world saw the SAS operating with MP5 on TV so they all wanted it too.

>>34591527
As others have said the MP5 was made famous by it's use in operations by SF/SWAT, but one of the reasons it was preferred by them over straight blowbacks is accuracy. Less bolt slamming around throwing your aim off, not important in a military weapon, but in a hostage situation accuracy is everything.

Also. The 9mm cartridge has an advantage on the more powerful rounds of the 'mini-assault' guns in that the bullet will not penetrate the next three walls in a typical house or apartment, so innocent civilians are less likely to catch one by accident. It really is the best argument I can think of for not heading for the rifle rounds.

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Because they are fucking awesome

>>34591331
Roller delayed blowback is the best action for automatic weapons, with the rare exception of short stroke gas in some cases.

>>34592219
Where's your sling swivel faggot

>>34595825
What's that on the left?

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>>34595901
Wilkinson arms terry rifle

>>34595992
Always wondered, how uncomfortable are those UZI collapsing stocks?

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>>34591331
SIMPLE
I
M
P
L
E

>>34592902
He had to pedantically correct you to make himself feel good.

PS: the US also had guided antishipping bombs and the Americans and the Soviets had IR night vision, The British also employed unguided surface to air missiles (totally shit apparently)
Hellicopters actually saw a bit more use than you imply.
Also i think the Germans did employ some unguided air to air rockets on the Me-262.

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>>34596007
very
WOOD is sexy & COMFY though

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>>34596062

>>34596062
Are the wood/metal stocks interchangeable? Or is the metal stock welded on?

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>>34592736
>Surface to Air Missile
>Doesn't matter if it's guided

Being guided is an integral part of the definition of a missile, you retard.
If they're unguided, they're rockets.

>>34596083
they are on the original uzi

>>34596083
They are changeable

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>>34596059
>Unrotated Projectile
>Total shit
That is not true at all. The pK of a UP battery was actually relatively large as they all launched at the same time. This eliminated the need for constant aiming corrections and lower the amount of expensive fire control units. Furthermore they used less strategic resources, freeing up conventional AAA manufacturing for mobile/transportable guns that were needed overseas. UP was cheap and effective for its role.
That manpower requirements were a bit absurd but that is why they had the Home Guard and female auxiliaries man them.

>>34596034
>>34596062
>>34596074
Phrase never uttered in earnest:
>"good jewish engineering"