Reminder that .45 GAP is a great round and that it will undergo

>>34555821
No it won't. It offers nothing that other cartridges don't already offer.

>>34555821
Someone bought a cheap glock

>>34555821
Solution for a non-existent problem, just like .40 S&W.

>>34555821
I'm usually optimistic about weird calibers but this is going to die an embarrassing death. The main complaint about .45 is impossible to address because it's the diameter of the .45 itself, gimping the power of it to do absolutely nothing but reduce thickness in the wrong direction is beyond stupid.

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>>34555821
nah, its the same type of pointless as the sig. just brand fanboism. if you want to make sure everybody knows you love Glock, go with it. it's not a bad round - if you can find and afford it.

The only thing keeping .45 GAP alive are countries were civis can't own military calibers.

>>34556112
.357 sig does have a benefit though. It mimics 125gr .357 magnum from an autoloader.

>>34555821
At best, it's just .45 Auto for handlets.
Even according to Speer's own advertising, it expands less than common .40 S&W loads, while also having lower capacity and needing special holsters to accommodate its fat slide.
Any advance in bullet design or propellant chemistry that would make it suck less would also make every other cartridge proportionally better.
Everybody falls for memes sometimes; what's important is admitting that you made a mistake.

>>34556092
Kek. You're tripping, 40 SW will never die. I get tons of brass at both of my ranges full of 40SW.

>>34556066
I was thinking didnt know gap isnt acp until it was to late

>>34556240
Not him, but by that standard GAP does too. It has the same energy/performance as original g.i. ACP, but it fits in a 9/40ish size frame as oppose to the g21/20 and g29/30 frames. So same performance as 45 acp but smaller package.

>>34555821
It basically performs like a *slightly* heavier .40S&W wih *a lot less* capacity. To top it off, ammo costs more and is a lot less available than .40S&W. I wouldn't refuse a .45 GAP pistol given to me for free, but, aside from "collecting em all," there's no reason to own a Glock chambered in it.

>>34555821
>$1.00 per round
Fuck you>>34555826

>>34556240
>.357 sig does have a benefit though. It mimics 125gr .357 magnum from an autoloader.
What's the benefit of doing that? It's still weaker than .40S&W. Maybe slightly less recoil, though?

>>34557341
You can get it online for around 30 cents per round.

>>34555821
Oh man American Handgunner mentioned this round ONCE and said it was a rising cartridge
I figured it was a .357 Sig sort of deal, but I literally have no info to draw from.
Popular police cartridge my ass

>>34557353
Juicy contracts from fudd LEAs that want muh .357 stoppin powah but in a high-capacity plastic service auto, mainly.

>>34557398
It is a popular police cartridge (for the same reason the AK is the most popular assault rifle in the world (because they were given away for free to anyone who wanted them)).

>>34557353
The necked cartridge is inherently more reliably feeding than a straight wall cartridge - feeding a small nose into a big chamber - although they are more susceptible to bullet setback.

>>34557302
So if it mimics .45 ACP you get a round that is roughly effectively equivalent to a 9mm or .40 s&w with less rounds. Sounds like a pointless endeavor to me.

>>34557353
Are you high? Hot .357 magnum has roughly double the energy of a .40 s&w.

>>34557815
and .357 sig in any loading comes nowhere near hot .357 magnum. Sig fags are deluding themselves

>>34557851
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/357-sig-125-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/

>>34557851
In all reality .357 sig when loaded to the original intended levels, it does come close to a 125 gr .357 from a comparable barrel length. It does outpaces all other small frame handgun cartridges by a fair margin at the expense of muzzle flash and recoil.

It is a fantastic cartridge in the LEO market for agencies that have the budget to train with it as the high velocities give it excellent barrier penetration. On top of this the bottleneck case helps with reliable feeding.

I don't own anything in the caliber, but to say it's as useless as .45 GAP, shows a poor understanding of the intended use of the cartridge.

>>34557869
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/357-magnum-125-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/357-magnum-180-grain-lead-flat-nose-gas-check/

>>34558064
The muzzle velocity from the inch barrel is right in line with 4 inch barrel .357 sig. Thanks for proving my point.

>>34555821
Not gonna lie, i thought 45 GAP was a /k/ name for 45 ACP until a few minutes ago till i googled it (geriatric auto pistol)

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>>34558199
And 125gr .357 loses about 200 fps going from a 4" to a 3" barrel, so thanks for proving my point.

>>34555821
If you can get the ammo cheap enough then a gun in a wildcat cartridge is good for a vehicle gun because
>if some nig steals it, he won't be able to find the right ammo at the grocery store
>he will try to sell it, it will come up stolen and then a nog goes to jail for firearm theft

>>34558344
You're not the most intelligent guy around are you?

Let me dig up my reloading data. There are plenty of .357 sig loads that come close to mag ballistics and far outpace any .45 GAP or .40 loads which is the entire point of the conversation.

You can choose not to like the cartridge. But the old time golden standard for man stopper magnum cartridges was 125 gr. @ 1500 fps from a 4 inch barrel. Which .357 sig does.

>>34557806
Yes, sort of. 45 edges 9 and 40 in momentum and energy, but falls short in penetration and projectile drop ( not that it matters in a pistol). The only problem is that the first statement only holds true for standard P loads, GAP doesn't have much in the way of +P loads iirc, so getting +P of either of the others more or less negates the difference. So if you hate excessive noise/recoil from +P and your hands are too small for a double stack 45 acp frame ( or you can't figure out how to carry one), but you still want a "45", the GAP might be for you.

Realistically though, cheap glocks are better than no glocks, or just getting any gun in good condition for a drastic reduction in price from the original msrp heightens the appeal.

>>34555821
>10mm revival

Top kek. .40 is it's successor round and even that's dying.

>>34555821
Why are people against having more variety in calibers? Unless companies start having exclusive caliber rights or something only good can come from more variety.

>>34558843
I think that we will see a revival of the 10mm automatic as the hunting autoloader of choice. There have been several manufacturers to start producing offerings in the last couple of years alone. I don't see the 10mm momentum drying up anytime soon.

Is .327 Magnum the .45 GAP of revolver cartridges?

They both are try to get the power of a bigger round but in a smaller overall package.

>>34558879
I agree that variety is good, but only when it innovates or offers something drastically better than the competition. If there was a .46 ACP would anyone use it if the ballistics mimicked the accepted .45ACP?

>>34558920
.327 Fed Mag is arguably a good idea, since it fits an extra round into J-frame-sized guns and has the case capacity to get its bullets going fast enough to mitigate their light weight.

>>34558921
Yes, people would use it, becuse it's .01 more.
Do you really think that every single one of the people on ARFCOM with sigs to the effect of "I only carry a .45 because they don't make a .46" are joking?

>>34558921

Yeah. What's the point of a round if it's going to be a clone of a round we already have? Why pay extra for something that's basically the same as one of the classics?

I think a problem is that there are a lot of neat rounds rounds out there that have their town niches, but the market is slow as molasses to adopt them. The rifle market is finally starting to warm up on 6.5 Grendel, and that took many years.

The pistol market is even worse; the only major changes to the pistol market have been 9x19mm ammo designs that have finally fixed it's perceived deficiencies for the American market, the .40 S&W's rise and slow fall, and the 10mm slowly coming off of life support as people are finding the advantages of having magnum-level power in an autoloader. For most shooters, there hasn't been any real changes in pistol cartridges ammo for a long-ass time. The pistol world seems more interested in improving existing designs than introducing radical new cartirdges that have a niche people want (not the .45 GAP). The .357 Sig tried something a little different, but recent advances in ammo have pulled out it's main advantage from under it, making it another round that's doomed to die in obscurity.

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>>34559049
6.5 Grendel is my favorite caliber currently.

>>34559049
Nothing about modern bullet designs fixes 9mm's lack of momentum and corresponding difficulty with intermediate barriers like bones and auto glass.
.40 S&W is still the ideal service pistol cartridge, and the only reason agencies like the FBI are moving away from it is to save money on ammo and artificially boost the qual scores of girls and wimpy men.

>>34559121
lol, ok.

>>34558747
45 does not 'edge' 40 in energy. The myth dies here. With standard pressure loadings, the 40 Smith and Wesson is more energetic than the 45 ACP. Look up the charts, it takes 2 minutes.

>>34559174
The difference being that there are SAMMI accepted .45 & 9mm +P loads, and no such thing for the .40.

>>34559196
They do exist, but looking into it you're right, and wording suggests that those loads are probably retarded.

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>>34559121
>.40 S&W is still the ideal service pistol cartridge

Just use 9x19mm unless it's a mousegun, revolver, or illegal in your country. Anything else is dumbassery. Seriously. You can do it if it makes you happy but don't pretend it's smart.

>>34555821
.45 Super is better.

>>34559218
+p loadings exist for the .40, but they are not SAAMI accepted, and are therefore inherently dangerous.

>>34559196
Unlike .45 ACP and 9mm Luger, .40 S&W was designed with modern handguns in mind; +P loads would be redundant and dangerous.

>>34560039
You're a retarded shill. Please go away. There are legitimate reasons for .40 S&W falling out of favor.

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>>34560118
This is the ideal service pistol caliber. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

>>34560458
lol. k.

>>34559091
Any 6.5 mm caliber will do that.

>>34560118
Not him; such as?

>>34556240
>it mimics
Thats the thing
Revolvers can usually push heavier grain .357 and .44 easily, and are usually shot put of a longer barrel too. Sig is mostly just trying to forget their own .45 gap-esque project because I'm sure they realize by now that the round is a failed idea made during a very strange time.

>>34562415
Not from a standard AR15 lower. There isn't another cartridge that brings the accuracy and BC that good to the AR15.

>>34564084
You get less capacity, sharper recoil characteristics, higher ammunition cost, and increased wear on the firearm in comparison to a 9mm. There was a legitimate place for .40 in years past, but newer bullet technology has helped 9mm become a smarter choice.

>>34564136
That wasn't the point of .357 Sig though, it was intended to mimic the known man-stopper 125 gr. magnums. Its a great load for the law enforcement community as its barrier penetration abilities are very very good.

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>>34564397
The ubiquity of the AR platform is the greatest current impediment to advancements in small arms technology.

>>34564434
The AR has made firearms accessible, and exciting on a scale that hasn't been seen in recent history. In my personal opinion the AR15 is mostly responsible for saving US gun culture.

>>34564642
It's a double edged sword; the AR's economy of scale makes EBRs accessible, but its magwell is a bottleneck that's holding us back from the One True Intermediate Cartridge that we've been narrowly missing for over a century now.

>>34564688
Agreed on the magwell, but ballistically the Grendel comes damn close to a perfect intermediate.

>>34564136
A failed idea that law enforcement agencies are so pleased with that none of them have ever switched away from it except for cost concerns.

>>34556092
>.40 has no use
>More powerful round in a 9mm sized pistol that still has significant capacity
>Introduced in the 90's when even bottom bitch 9mm loads were weaksauce
>Has gone on to kill more black people than Nike, AIDS, and KFC combined.

Pretty useful to me, anon. .45 GAP hasn't done shit for anybody except further reinforce the notion that Florida needs to stop drinking their own water.

>>34559336
9mm mouseguns and revolvers exist and they're fine.