Name a pistol objectively better than the 1911. You can't.

Taurus PT92

>>34551243
Practically any other gun that follows the same concept except has a double action trigger.

>>34551274
>not having a double stack 1911
Stay pleb

>Having a pistol with 15 rounds in its butt is like having a car with a 50 gallon gas tank.

You get to go further before needing a refill? Not sure how the primary benefit of higher capacity is a valid argument against it.

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>>34551243
>muh capacity
This is a fundamental misunderstanding. If you need more than 6 rounds, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. If six rounds of .357 Mag is not enough to put down your target, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it anyway.

>outdated
Appeal to novelty fallacy. WW2 cred is not necessarily better.

>I don't like the safety
Your finger is the safety, retard.

>>34551270
What practical advantage does it have?
>>34551274
Double action triggers are a solution in search of a problem. Nobody who knows anything about shooting wants a long, heavy trigger pull.
>>34551288
There's nothing bad about it per se. It's just unnecessary. Don't sacrifice anything important in design in order to meet some arbitrary capacity goal.

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>>34551243
But Anon...

>>34551300
>Don't sacrifice anything important in design in order to meet some arbitrary capacity goal.

And what is it exactly, that you think modern high capacity guns have sacrificed that the 1911 did not? I like my 1911s, but if I had to choose a sidearm to carry, it would not be either of them. Modern combat pistols have relegated the 1911 to the level of range toy. The only thing it really does better than more modern designs, is having a nicer trigger out of the box.

>>34551299
>If you need more than 6 rounds, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns
I agree, but the advantage of a semi-auto is not capacity. The advantage of a semi auto is that it does not need to be cocked on the draw.
>>34551312
Cute, but 9mm has 60% less impact area than 45 ACP.

>>34551300
I just work for (You)s

>>34551327
>9mm has 60% less impact area than 45 ACP.

Your agrument holds bretty much no ground; a bullet will kill you dead, friend.

>>34551243

15 rounds of .357 SIG baby!

>>34551321
>And what is it exactly, that you think modern high capacity guns have sacrificed that the 1911 did not?
9mm bullets are too small, and double stack 45s feel like 2 liter soda bottles in the hand.
>>34551321
>Modern combat pistols have relegated the 1911 to the level of range toy.
Prove it. Tell me exactly what "modern" pistols do better than a 1911. Are they more accurate? No. Are they more powerful? No. Are they easier to hold and shoot? No.
>>34551339
Most handgun bullets actually don't kill immediately. They wound.
>>34551359
The 1911 can also be chambered in necked down cartridges, if that is an advantage, though I'm not sure that it is.

>>34551284
Double stack is fine too, but that reaches into the "compact or not" territory which at least is just a personal preference where as having the option for a double action trigger pull is always superior.

>>34551367
>Most handgun bullets actually don't kill immediately. They wound.

Thats why you have more than 9 bullets

>>34551327
By your arguments, a deadly brand desert eagle is a straight upgrade to the nyanteen elebun
>bigger round
>single action trigger
>muh craptastic capacity
The only "sacrifice" is you don't get to jerk off over how old it is, you GILF fetishist

I'm biting!

>>34551327
impact area / power doesn't put somebody down, CNS and less-so vital organ hits do. Impact area doesn't substantially increase chance of a CNS/vital hit, more rounds on target do. In which case, provided the round can adequately reach the CNS/vitals which 9mm does, more capacity and less recoil is advantageous.

>>34551243
I love the 1911, but your shitposting sucks.

>purpose of the pistol
Is to have a relatively light gun that is fairly agile relative to it's bigger brothers. The 1911 was used offensively in war, and designed as such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol
>diminished returns
>for having much higher capacity while very slightly adding weight

Most retarded thing I've heard today. 15 rounds = 50 gallons? By that logic your 1911 "car" has 23 and 1/3. If going by modern day car to gun standards, the ideal usual capacity for a regular sized gun is 4-6.

The rest are counters for pointless insults.

Anyhow, the gun is relatively heavy and sucks to CC. Fine for OC and range fun.

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>>34551367
>Are they more powerful? No.

>>34551383
In most situations, gun shot victims are incapacitated via loss of blood pressure. Which is still an argument in favor of higher capacity, more bullet holes=quicker loss of pressure in the circulatory system.

>>34551243
USP 45. Higher ammo cap, more or less same performance, generally a bit lighter, can attach accessories without modification to the frame, recoil reduction system, etc.

>>34551377
If you have to shoot your enemy more than one, that is your gun's way of telling you it needs a better cartridge.
>>34551380
I've never fired a Deagle, but I imagine the recoil would be overbearing, but if you are enough of a he man to carry one, more power to you.
>>34551383
No. Death is caused by bleeding unless the brain stem is destroyed. There are doctors who will back me up on that. Faster bleeding means faster dying.
>>34551386
>Is to have a relatively light gun that is fairly agile relative to it's bigger brothers. The 1911 was used offensively in war, and designed as such.
You describe the physical properties of the weapon. I am describing its intended use.
>>34551386
>Most retarded thing I've heard today. 15 rounds = 50 gallons? By that logic your 1911 "car" has 23 and 1/3. If going by modern day car to gun standards, the ideal usual capacity for a regular sized gun is 4-6.
It's not meant to be directly proportional. It's just an analogy. You don't have a 50 gallon gas tank because you never take a trip that far without an opportunity to stop for gas. Nobody is going to be ambushed by more than 7 people. The only reason for more bullets is bad marksmanship, which is very much a liability to bystanders.
>>34551386
>Anyhow, the gun is relatively heavy
But not too heavy. A little bit of heft is not a bad thing as long as it is not painful to carry. And I have CCd a 1911 before, so I know firsthand that there is nothing wrong with that.
>>34551396
>implying 10mm isn't available in a 1911 action
>>34551412
>In most situations, gun shot victims are incapacitated via loss of blood pressure
This is true.
>>34551412
>Which is still an argument in favor of higher capacity
This is not true.
>>34551412
>more bullet holes=quicker loss of pressure in the circulatory system.
So do bigger holes. Quality is better than quantity.

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>>34551454
You're a fucking mastermind troll, or you're just a fudd; either way I salute you.

All pistols should be glocks, all glocks should be 9mm, all 9mm glocks should be 19s

>>34551454
>>implying 10mm isn't available in a 1911 action

1911s are prone to frame cracking as it is. Also every non Glock 10mm pistol fairly expensive. The Glock 20 is the only affordable 10mm pistol on the market.

>>34551437
>Higher ammo cap, more or less same performance, generally a bit lighter
None of these features have any real, practical benefit.
>>34551437
>can attach accessories without modification to the frame
This is the first valid argument I've heard in this thread. A flashlight on a gun can be quite useful.
>>34551461
>either way I salute you
I'd rather you gave me a valid argument.
>>34551467
James Yeager is really funny. He made a video denying the fact that he is a shill, and even in that video he could not resist the urge to advertise a set of brass knuckles. What a lack of self awareness! To be fair, some of his videos are informative, but most of them are thinly veiled advertisements for various products. I wonder how much they pay him for that?>>34551501
>1911s are prone to frame cracking as it is.
No, they are not. Even if they were switching to a plastic frame certainly wouldn't help.

>>34551508
>switching to a plastic frame certainly wouldn't help.

>muh all steel
>fug your shitty tupperware gun

Fudd spotted.

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>Work with guy
>HK guy
>Carries USP compact in .45
>Always talks shit about the 1911 being outdated and 7rd capacity is shit (he's not wrong)
>Us and another guy from work go shooting one day. Other guy brings his Wilson combat with extendo in a crossbreed
>Let's HK guy try it on
>Admits that the slim profile is nice and the extended mag doesn't print anymore than his
>But says he prefers a more modern design and can't deal with the capacity loss
>His face when Wilson combat guy points out that his USP compact only holds 2 more rounds, but he still says it's not worth it

>>34551327
By that logic a .308 has 66% less Impact Area than the .45 acp and an average of 72 less grains of weight. That should mean it is even worse at putting people down.

>>34551524
1. Steel is stronger than plastic. Nobody denies this.
2. You don't know what a fudd is. A fudd is someone against using guns as weapons. They think hunting is legitimate but fighting is not.
>>34551569
Why all this obsession with capacity?
>>34551593
The difference being that a 308 has much better sectional density and almost 3 times the speed of a 45.

>>34551643
And spider silk is stronger than Steel, but it's garbage for rigid applications. Frame, bolt, and chamber design can mean that while a frame isn't STRONGER than a 1911, it may suffer less stress in the first place.

>tfw never cared for 1911s
>finally got one to round out my collection
>now actively dislike 1911s

The only good thing I can say about it is that I like the trigger. I don't understand all the circlejerk around them as match guns, though, since I've shot many other guns with SAO pulls just as nice.

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Which one would you rather have

>Car with a 20 gallon tank and 20MPG

or

>Car with 50 gallon tank and 25 MPG

>>34551707
how many hp?
what's the hp/gvw

>>34551709
The MPG was the analogy for the ballistics

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>>34551299
>>34551299
>>muh capacity
>This is a fundamental misunderstanding. If you need more than 1 round, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. If one round of a .69 caliber lead slug is not enough to put down your target, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it anyway.
>>34551299

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>>34551243
>>>34551299
>>>34551299
>>>muh capacity
>>This is a fundamental misunderstanding. If you need more than 0 round, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. If one foot long spear is not enough to put down your target, you probably shouldn't be charging at it anyway.

>>34552186
>If one foot long spear is not enough to put down your target, you probably shouldn't be charging at it anyway.

not the guy your talking to but this actually makes complete sense

>>34551243
>grip safety
>needs upgrades to be viable
>heavy as shit
>GRIP FUCKING SAFETY
This thread is pure retardation at its finest. And the 1911 is JUST tier now.

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No (You) yet OP.

>>34551300

>Double action triggers are a solution in search of a problem.

Double strike capability

>Nobody who knows anything about shooting wants a long, heavy trigger pull.

I thought it was a defensive weapon, not a fucking target pistol

>>34551243
USP 45 is objectively better.

>>34552226
Owned both. I'd take the USP over the 1911 to a fight. I'd take a lot of the modern 9mm's, .40s, and .45s over a 1911 if there was a choice. And this is from someone who loves the 1911.

>>34552241

You know who else would take a lot of different sidearms to a fight over 1911s? Every military in the world.

Fudds forget this.

>>34551691
They look good. Big caliber. And there's that famous trigger.

But if it wasn't for it being "our" gun in WW2 and used in the branches for so long it would have been the Hi Power that everyone goes nuts over like the rest of the world.

FN Herstal/Browning Hi Power
Beretta 92FS
Glock 17/19
Heckler & Koch USP
SIG Sauer P226
There's more but these are the major ones that replaced it. They are all objectively better overall.

>>34552263
Half the guns listed have shittier triggers and dont fit comfortably in 30% of the worlds populations hands.

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>>34551396

>>34552247
>Appeal to authority

I'll stick to my CZ 75B, thanks.
>m-muh 1911 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>34551243
>muh capacity
if you need more than 2 shots of 9mm to take down your target, you're simply not accurate enough. Having a pistol with 7 rounds in its butt is like having a car with a 25 gallon gas tank.

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>>34551243

>>34551659
>but it's garbage for rigid applications
Steel is also more rigid than plastic.
>>34551659
>while a frame isn't STRONGER than a 1911, it may suffer less stress in the first place.
1911s do not have a problem with breaking. They just don't. Sure, you can find examples of any gun breaking, but those are few and far between.
>>34551843
You may have multiple enemies, although it's unlikely you will have more than 7.
>>34552215
>grip safety
Never been a problem for me. Are you missing fingers or somthing?
>>34552215
>needs upgrades to be viable
Prove it.
>>34552215
>heavy as shit
So? Do you have some kind of disease that you can't wear a two and half pound object on your belt?
>>34552225
>Double strike capability
What does that even mean?
>>34552225
>I thought it was a defensive weapon, not a fucking target pistol
The same properties that make a pistol good at accurately punching paper make it good at accurately punching people.
>>34552241
Not an argument.
>>34552247
Appeal to authority and bandwagon fallacy.
>>34552253
Still waiting for you to tell me what the hipower does better than the 1911.
>>34552263
>They are all objectively better overall.
Prove it.
>>34555028
>>34555028
Shooting twice is silly.

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Wow that was hard. I'd you want to stick to gimped guns the P220 SAO, XDS 4.0, 3rd Gen S&Ws, jericho/baby eagle .45s, and even clones of the 1911 are objectively better than the 1911.

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>>34551243
>>muh capacity
You're argument against capacity is meaningless projections of your own deluded perceptions

>>34557038
>prove it
You mean besides better materials, more efficient and more mechanically sound designs that have better maintenance schedules and more longevity while holding the same or more ammo with less weight and not suffering from variances in construction and quality control between manufacturers.

I'm a 1911 fan boy, but I'm not delusional and unlike you I understand what objectively means

>>34557038
Bravo, sir.

You are rustling the fuck out of quite a few individuals.

>>34551243
>If you have more than 7 rounds, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. Having a pistol with 15 rounds in its butt is like having a car with a 50 gallon gas tank.
Bull fucking shit. 17 rounds in a pistol is better than 7 rounds in a pistol every time.

>Name a pistol objectively better than the 1911. You can't.

I don't need to or care to. Pistols are for when you were too stupid to bring a rifle. I don't have that problem.

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>>34551243
>tfw CA's cucked mag caps mean capacity is a non-starter for me anyway so I might as well get a 1911

>>34551454
>you described the properities of the gun
Which also hints at it's use. And as stated, it was used offensively during it's time in use. Furthermore throughout history, handguns have been used offensively.

>nobody is gonna be ambushed by more than seven people
Yet it has happened, both in theater and outside.

>>34551243
I agree about the 7 round capacity, that's why I modify all of my Glock mags to 7 rounds.

>>34551508
Having same performance has no benefits, nor a recoil reduction system? Oh and higher ammo cap is bad now? History would like a talk woth you.

Gee, did you bonk your head on the keyboard too many times or something?

>>34551243
Pretty much any miriad of modern polymer semi-autos.

>higher capacity
>lighter
>can be smaller, for CCing
>accepts accessories
>lighter, double action triggers
>better sights, depending on what you go with

Find reasons to own a fuddyfive 1911 over, say, a PPQ.

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Nothing beats this BEAST of a gun. Ultimate conceal-ability, excellent ergonomics, powerful skull bouncing caliber, extremely accurate. Ever used a better gun? Well, you've never used that 1911 either, so I guess you really wouldn't know would you.

>>34551454
>If you have to shoot your enemy more than one, that is your gun's way of telling you it needs a better cartridge.
So are handgun rounds shit or not? Stupid faggot.

You know 1911s are the only guns that fire .45cal, right?

>>34551367
>he doesn't know that modern 9mm cartridges compare very well ballistically to literally any other modern pistol cartridge

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>>34551243

>>34551454
>If you have to shoot your enemy more than one, that is your gun's way of telling you it needs a better cartridge.
I've never seen 1911 with 7.62 NATO chambering.

>>34551643
>Why all this obsession with capacity?
Maybe because that's the #1 reason that modern handguns trump 1911s?

Are you retarded?

>>34557282
>You know 1911s are the only guns that fire .45cal, right?
Wat?

>>34551299
>If six rounds of .357 Mag is not enough to put down your target, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it anyway.
What is more than one target

>50bmg
>all steel
>weight is irrelevant
>if you need more than 1 shot, you're just bad

Your move, OP.

>>34551243
>This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of a pistol. A pistol is a conceptually defensive weapon.

Can I carry a rifle everywhere? no? I didn`t think so.
Leave me alone with my 17+1 magazines.

>>34557343
obviously I meant "aren't"

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>>34557369
forgot image

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>>34551367
>Tell me exactly what "modern" pistols do better than a 1911.

Modern pistols using polymer and carbonated finishes are more corrosion resistant and lighter. For example, the Glock 21 with a loaded mag is 2.4 lbs, an UNLOADED 1911 is 2.4 lbs.
Additionally, the 1911 is a pain in the ass to strip compared to Glocks, Euro designed SIGs, XDs, and even the TT-33.

For fucks sake, 1911 is inferior to the TT-33. The Tokarev has a couple more rounds, easier to clean, lighter, no superfluous safety, and an external extractor.

>>34557428
the tt-33 is unreliable. a 1911 can at least me made to be very reliable.

>>34557459
tt33 unreliable? Fuck of troll.

>>34557459
>a 1911 can at least me made to be very reliable

Thanks for the conjecture, grampa.

>>34551243

the glock 19

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>>34557459
>the tt-33 is unreliable
>a 1911 can at least me made to be very reliable.

>>34551243
USP in .45
5 more rounds

>>34551243
Yugo M92 with an armbrace and an Aimpoint is a better pistol than the 1911. Prove me wrong faggot.

>>34557134
>objectively better than the 1911
Prove it.
>>34557157
Prove it. Tell me how often a gunfighter needs more than 7 rounds, not counting guys who miss a lot because of spray and pray marksmanship.
>>34557162
>better materials
Better how?
>>34557162
>more efficient
In terms of what?
>>34557162
>mechanically sound
Prove it. You keep making assertions that one thing is "better" than another, but you can't tell me exactly how one thing benefits the shooter over another.
>>34557162
>less weight
Why does that matter? How does a little less weight help the shooter in any way? Do you have muscular dystrophy or something that you can't heft a 2 lb object?
>>34557177
Except it isn't. I have yet to find a single documented case where a man was able to save his life because he had an inordinate number of rounds in his pistol's butt, only cases where guys with excess capacity wasted it by missing.
>>34557217
>And as stated, it was used offensively during it's time in use.
Exceedingly rarely. Pistols are and were defensive weapons. The only exception that comes to mind is tunnel rats, who couldn't carry a rifle for obvious reasons.
>>34557217
>Furthermore throughout history, handguns have been used offensively.
Yeah, back in the Civil War era.
>>34557217
>Yet it has happened, both in theater and outside.
Prove it.
>>34557235
>Having same performance has no benefits
If it's the same, then it's not better.
>>34557235
>nor a recoil reduction system
The 1911 has very mild recoil. I honestly don't know what you're complaining about.
>>34557235
>Oh and higher ammo cap is bad now?
Not bad per se. Just not needed.
>>34557258
>>higher capacity
Do you miss a lot?
>>34557258
>lighter
Got weak arms or something?
>>34557258
>can be smaller, for CCing
I've concealed a 1911 no problem.
>>34557258
>lighter, double action triggers
You just contradicted yourself. If the trigger is double action, then it is going to be heavier.

>>34557258
>better sights, depending on what you go with
There is absolutely nothing wrong with 1911 sights. It's just a notch and post. Paint them if you must.
>>34557282
Yes, I know 1911s are not the only guns in 45, but so far, they are the best gun offered in that caliber.
>>34557323
It's not a reason at all.
>>34557360
Something you can easily shoot with 7 rounds.
>>34557373
Non sequitur.
>>34557428
>are more corrosion resistant
What is oil?
>>34557428
>lighter
What is arm strength?
>>34557428
>1911 is a pain in the ass to strip compared to Glocks, Euro designed SIGs, XDs, and even the TT-33
Who the fuck cares? A gun is made to be easy to shoot, not easy to take apart. Taking it apart is an afterthought. Shooting is the primary purpose.
>>34557508
It's not conjecture. It's a fact.
>>34557712
They don't make a holster for the Yugo.

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>>34551243
this is shit bait but I'll respond

>fundamental misunderstanding of a pistol
More is always better, there's a reason why low capacity firearms were abandoned. People needed more ammo than they provided.

>fudd
Fudd's love 1911's and revolvers for some stupid reason.

>Newer isn't better
I assume you're making this post from a 1980's macintosh with dial up then

>leave the safety off
>on a single action only pistol

>nobody who knows anything about shooting wants a long heavy trigger pull

Yet people were doing it with double action revolvers for decades anon. Not to mention how many competitive shooters and self defense experts advocate for DA/SA guns.

2/10 you got me to reply, don't be a faggot.

>>34551243
>Capacity
As long as the number of rounds does not measurably impair the shooter's capacity to shoot or render the weapon unergonomic and awkward to use, more rounds before reload means more time attacking before you leave yourself open to attack while reloading. The fewer times you reload the fewer openings you leave.
>Fudd
Is this a criticism of 1911s?
>Outdated
Newer might not necessarily better, however if two tools are constructed for the same purpose and one is newer, the newer tool will have a higher probability of being optimized to fulfill said purpose.
>I don't like safety
I don't understand not wanting a safety and you're right, it can just be switched off.

>>34557397
I unironically want one.

>>34551243
>More capacity is somehow worse!

That's some nice rationalization you're attempting there.

>>34551243
If revolvers count then smith and wesson model 19

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Capacity really is a meme; the vast majority of people carry single stack 9mm's or .380's if they carry at all.

>>34551243
"Name a pistol objectively better than the 1911"
A better 1911

"A fudd is someone who is opposed to using guns for fighting"
I'm opposed to using guns for fighting. I don't understand how anyone who has seen combat can abide that shit going on in the USA.

CZ 75. How you ask?

CZ 75 is based loosely on the Browning Hi-Power. The Browning Hi-Power is the successor to the 1911.

>>34551243
good luck using any ACP if your opponent is wearing body armour.

>>34551243
>>muh capacity
>This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of a pistol. A pistol is a conceptually defensive weapon. It's not meant as a substitute for a rifle for storming buildings. It's meant to repel a close range ambush. If you have more than 7 rounds, you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. Having a pistol with 15 rounds in its butt is like having a car with a 50 gallon gas tank.

>nato puts out request for 20 round handgun
>us military puts out request for 17 round hangun

>>34552754
I love .45 super/smc but it's just an analog for .357 or 10mm without the same sectional density and worse capacity.

>>34551843
>>34551299
Reductio ad absurdum

>>34560056
>More is always better
No, it isn't.
>>34560056
>there's a reason why low capacity firearms were abandoned
They were not abandoned. They are produced and sold.
>>34560056
>People needed more ammo than they provided
Only because they couldn't shoot straight.
>>34560056
>Fudd's love 1911's and revolvers for some stupid reason.
If you love handguns, then by definition you're not a fudd.
>>34560056
>leave the safety off
>on a single action only pistol
There's nothing wrong with that. I've done it many times.
>>34560056
>Yet people were doing it with double action revolvers for decades anon
Those people would cock the hammer whenever they had the chance. The only time they wouldn't is when they didn't have the opportunity.
>>34560056
>Not to mention how many competitive shooters and self defense experts advocate for DA/SA guns.
Appeal to authority fallacy. There is not one good reason you can name why a trigger on an automatic pistol should be double action.
>>34560063
>As long as the number of rounds does not measurably impair the shooter's capacity to shoot or render the weapon unergonomic and awkward to use, more rounds before reload means more time attacking before you leave yourself open to attack while reloading. The fewer times you reload the fewer openings you leave.
A pistol is not an offensive weapon. It's not meant for attacking large numbers of people.
>>34560063
>Is this a criticism of 1911s?
Some people make that criticism even though it doesn't apply.
>>34560063
>Newer might not necessarily better, however if two tools are constructed for the same purpose and one is newer, the newer tool will have a higher probability of being optimized to fulfill said purpose.
Wrong. Manufacturers come out with new products to make money, not because the newer products are better.
>>34560078
Strawman argument.
>>34562269
>Browning Hi-Power is the successor to the 1911
Appeal to novelty fallacy.

>>34562835
A fair point, but body armor will stop just about any pistol cartridge.
>>34562907
Appeal to authority fallacy. Just because some bureaucrats think they need it doesn't mean you do.
>>34565138
Except it isn't. Having more rounds is better BUT ONLY UP TO A POINT.

>>34564758
Not really. It's a round or two less, if that. The Glock 21 is 2 rounds less than the Glock 20. The Delta Elite is the same capacity as the average 1911 platform. And so on.

You are not gaining many, if any, rounds for 10mm.

And, I am going to assume you are talking about .357sig and not .357mag when comparing capacity.