Armchair generals, develop a complete battle plan for North Korea,

Tomahawk into all three of their power stations and food production facilities. Oil embargo.

/war

>>34518324
So no complete and total decapitation strike on ports/DMZ/MOABs on Pyongyang Kims palace?

Doesn't /k/ want to see some HD Neutron bombs?

>>34518304 (OP)
>How do we neutralize them
This is the lynchpin question. Presumably, the intent is to suppress their air defenses, disable their ballistic missiles, destroy their nuclear facilities and missile factories, seal off their infiltration tunnels, prevent their army from entering South Korea, and to silence their artillery pointed at Seoul - and all without nuclear weapons unless absolutely necessary?

I mean, in principle, all of this can be accomplished conventionally. The question is, how many friendly casualties and servicemen are you willing to accept to achieve it?

>>34518356

Well we'll have 4 battleships in the area, 3 Carriers and 1 in reserve, their airforce will be wiped out within 5 minutes of the first Tomahawk strike on the Northern Nuclear facility near the Russian boarder.

My problem is as you said the Artillery, we have many batteries installed on the border, what kinda ordnance would I have to drop to wipe out at least 3/4ths of them?


And up to 40,000 Service men and half a Million Citizens if the artillery problem isn't solved

>>34518356
My only answer would be to drop extremely low yield nukes on the artillery pieces

>>34518371

Frankly I don't know if the casualty rate can be kept that low; estimates for North Korean artillery casualties are somewhere around 10,000 to 300,000 in the first hour, depending on your level of optimism or pessimism about the population's actual preparedness to evacuate into the shelters built to protect them in this scenario.

The wildcard is the tunnels. Some people think North Korea has up to 20 of the things running under the border, and South Korea knows of three. If this is true, there's a high probability of an extremely confusing and destructive first few hours in the ensuing confusion, which could undermine South Korea's counter-battery fire and substantially slow down the mobilization of the forces needed to repel the inevitable North Korean advance when they mobilize all forces for what can safely be assumed to be a regime ending effort.

I don't think there are enough Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles, Aircraft Carrier sorties, South Korean and Japanese runways, and strategic bombers to take out every asset within a short time span; North Korea's been expecting such an attack for sixty years and has done a lot to prepare for it.

>>34518405

If I was using nukes on North Korea's artillery, on condition of advisement from people who actually have access to the nitty-gritty details of fallout projections, I'd use high yield airbursts to take out the artillery crews with the overpressure and thermal pulse, and rely on burst height to prevent too much radiological damage. This whole idea might fall apart depending on the effects of terrain, which is quite likely given the mountainous nature of North Korea's southern border.

>>34518405
>>34518336
Also, should we call you Eisenhower?

>>34518522
Presumably.

I feel that to defeat the North Korean threat, there is no 'limited' strike option, there is only one. Complete and total decapitation, every city is bombed, every factory is destroyed. Complete and total destruction. Maybe that and only that would stop the artillery teams from shelling for hours and hours after they know their glorious leader is vaporized.

>>34518304
Nuke them into oblivion because fuck your rules.

>>34518522
Also, this plan would also be known as ((Operation Fuck them all to death))

Once the Artillery teams know their entire country is reduced to ash they will lay down their arms once they don't see all of their tanks rolling across the DMZ and instead they're the only ones attacking.

Stop sending King Fatshit food. Simultaneously blast 24 hours a day on loudspeakers, "If he is a God, and he cannot stop us, then what are we?"

>>34518572
>>34518597

Glassing North Korea is probably one of the more realistic solutions to pacifying the country, but it also normalizes nuclear warfare and that is going to be a very difficult can of worms to manage down the road.

>>34518609
If only it would be that easy.

>implying the fat king shit wouldn't become Cannibal fat king shit

>>34518616
Exactly, with immunity from Russia and China, i.e no retaliation after said glassing.

But it would also help out with the middle east as well, the normalizing of nuclear weapons that is.

High level B2 bombing targeting Kim, followed by ICBMs/cruise missles to level Pongyang. Launch fighters and covert ops to target AA defenses and missile sites. Tell China they're in charge of the northern part.

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>>34518304
Without interference, blockade and starve them. Blow up anything crawling out

>>34518626
>But it would also help out with the middle east as well, the normalizing of nuclear weapons that is.

It wouldn't, I think. This is going to be a one-and-done without a recurrence of extraordinary provocation on par with North Korea's shenanigans, but every nuclear power is going to look to nuclear weapons now for their own domestic thorns in their sides.

>>34518666
Eh yeah, I wouldn't want to see Tibet glassed or Ukraine glassed, I see your point.

>>34518304
Shock and awe. Gotta fuck all those missile bases and command centers and kill the glorious leader ASAP, then just walk on through.

>>34518304
My plan would be to destroy their will to fight and THEN snuff them out.
First I'd send B2 bombers after statues, fatbois palaces and obvious military targets like airbases and stuff.
Then just show off the full might of the US military and make sure they know Kim ain't no god.
But then again my only experience is Civilization so what do I know

>>34518697
Three words that ruin this idea:
Dead Man's Switch.

Can't be done without complete mobilization, draft, and a wartime economy. They have 2 million active soldiers, so it would take 10 million soldiers and support to fight them.

If we launch a draft, thats their cue to hit U.S. military bases in Korea with artillery. Its not really a winnable war if its done that way.

I guess we would set up countrtbatteries and THAAD and iron dome along the DMZ, and completely deny it. Then sink their navy ships spaced out over an extended period of time, each time denying involvement. They wouldn't go to war over a single ship.

>>34518882
>I guess we would set up countrtbatteries and THAAD and iron dome along the DMZ, and completely deny it.

Not viable. There's no radar tracking system in existence that can keep beam locks on ~30,000 airborn targets to destroy them, and lets not forget how impossibly cost-ineffective it would be to try to hit that many mortars with Iron Dome missiles.

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>>34518882
>hit US bases with artillery
If the Norks start the war, it will only end in them getting unequivocally fucked. Y'all keep forgetting there's hundreds of thousands of soldiers the ROK can muster in defense of their country and who've been ready to kick Nork ass for some time. Yes, cities like Seoul would be decimated by ROK/US counter-battery fire would rip into the DPRK's artillery rather quickly. A combined US/ROK effort would surely defeat the DPRK in an all-out conflict.

>>34518964
>Y'all keep forgetting there's hundreds of thousands of soldiers the ROK can muster in defense of their country and who've been ready to kick Nork ass for some time.

As soon as they can get them mobilized. Cross-border tunneling and artillery fire both complicate this substantially, and the majority of South Korea's population is in the vicinity of Seoul.

>>34518522
You mean MacArthur?

>>34519028
The Eisenhower administration threatened to escalate to nuclear weapons before the armistice was brokered.

Send Toretto

>>34518616
>that is going to be a very difficult can of worms to manage down the road.
nuking the non-nuclear peasants and anyone who dares to have an nuclear program.
Wow... Super difficult. Just don't push the person you're handcuffed to over the cliff like an idiot, push the faggots who you're not handcuffed to.

>>34519377
>Toretto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO_u-EkJZ8E

Only way i see to not have civvie casualties in the 100.000+ range is to somehow silence the Nork batteries pointed at Seoul.

- Simultaneous SF raids could work but they'd need to know where the batteries are and be done before anyone can sound the alert. One slip-up and Seoul is rubble.
- Tomahawk strikes could also be a plan but then it becomes a question of numbers. Can the US launch enough tomahawks to blanket the Nork batteries all on one go?
- A third option is stealth airstrikes. B2s escorted by/preceeded by F-35s going in fast and hard striking at radar stations and other early warning installations. blow then up before they can get a signal out then pummel the batteries unto dust Rolling Thunder style with MOABs, bunker busters and a shit-ton of regular freefall munitions

The best option would probably be a mix of all three. SF doing raids on the harder-to-reach batteries under the cover of F-35s and B2s while tomahawks rain down on the ones easier to blow up.

Only after the batteries pointed at Seoul are silenced is is safe to do decap strikes on Nork chain of command. The war would still be bloody and hard-fought but at least teh initial civilian deathtoll would be manageable.

>>34518304
Probably going to be somewhat similar to the first gulf war i imagine. The best way for america to win is to deliver an ultimatum of surrender.
now we know full well there will be no surrender, but for proper reasons this needs to be done for public interest to show mercy something like that because everyone knows they are proper fucked.
The initial stages would probably hit known artillery batteries and hit power-substations and possibly major bridges/infrastructure with cruise missiles and guided rocket artillery.
a bunker busting bomb might be used on Kim's place to try and get a quick victory.
if they continue resisting i imagine the united states are going to continue hunting down artillery batteries like they hunted down scuds in the gulf war until they are satisfied, as well as continue to cripple the nork military by breaking up runways, hit their ships, clear any sea mines.
The final stages could very well be a mechanized Armour assault to the capital, with perhaps marine elements landing on the beaches just north of the capital for a pincer like attack, and surely with the capital taken by ground troops the north koreans will give up at that point.
stealth bombers with f-22 escorts will be fairly important until radars and SAM batteries are dealt with early on the conflict
i imagine the amercians will have to use a lot of long range artillery from paladins and m270s and quite possibly towed artillery.

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>all these people saying you need to go for the NK artillery pointed at Seoul
It would be better to have Seoul evacuated to begin with. Best plan is to institute sectional evacuation drills(as in one part of the city and not all of it) for a month or two before going to war. Then when time comes evacuate it section by section till completely empty. Its the concept of conditioned response. NK will be skiddish the first few times but will grow accustomed to it over time. A similar tactic is used in ISIS execution videos were they do mock executions on their prisoner till they no longer react when the time comes.

Why would I wanna take them down they're one of the few non Jewish countries left? If I was in charge I'd just nuke all the US infrastructure so city fags starve

Collapse the giant from within.
Contaminate imports in transit.
Unattributed sinking of merchant vessels by torpedo on high seas or intelligent submerged mines closer to harbour causing 'unexplained' natural losses of oil tankers and other volatile cargoes.
Biological agents - pesticide resistant beetles etc - to destroy food crops.
>Nothing identifiable as an outright attack or military action
Psyops whispering campaign against Fatboy's rising paranoia that the evilcapitalistpigs are conspiring to cause these natural calamities, until somebody more rational stages an internal coup.

>>34518371
The United States hasn't had a Battleship in service in years.

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>marine landings from either side at the thinnest point of NK. search and destroy mission on everything between them and pyongyang, destroying and denying the enemy any type of infrastructure.
>SF HALO jumps in and around major government buildings with the objective of securing/executing high ranking government and military personnel.
>psyops dropping not only pamphlets talking about how they were there to free the north koreans, but also playing propoganda from loud speakers saying surrendering koreans will not be harmed. (has to be audible, as literacy rates in north korea are startling low)
>airborne landings outside of major cities, in front of the front line. these airborne troops will slow enemy mobilization and cut off troop reinforcement attacking the main army force
>army and marine artillery shelling from the other side of the dmz in the very beginning of the attack, along with cruise missiles ready to shoot down any north korean missiles.
>through that the main army force will move forward, spread evenly across the line they will be spearheaded by combat engineers, who will quickly disable any types of mines and other traps they come across.
>the invasion will mostly be armored vehicles, and light vehicles should only follow in the path of armored vehicles that have already cleared mines
>after the marines and army meet at pyongyang they will spread out in a half circle, moving to any major settlement left in korea.
>airborne assault and night raids will be common to catch the enemy of guard. airborne/rangers go in in a blackhawk in the middle of the night, neutralize an enemy camp, and are out. word of the americans decimating them, along with general conditions in NK and the propaganda from psyops should see a pretty quick capitulation from most of the military, and soon enough the country in general.
>seoul should be evacuated before any of this happens, SK people will be reimbursed for property damage after all is said and done.

>>34518964
You don't win wars by plunging your and your opponent's economy into the middle ages.

>I don't care if we lost the entire Washington DC, Los Angeles, *name some other super important cities here*. The point is we'd nuke Moscow and St.Petersburg as well so that's a win for us!

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major bombing raid across the whole country
missile strike and precision guided bombs to their major electricity plants and administrative center
amphibious assault on the nothern half of the country, where the width of the country is the smallest
complete blitz into pyongyang
airborne insertion into difficult or rought territory,keep the blitz momentum going


the largest problem is dealing with the consequence of taking care 30 million starving brainwashed zipperheads

>>34518304
>Calm the Chinese' tits
>Find as much Nork artillery batteries as you can
>Get a carrier group on each side of the peninsula
>Mobilise ground forces
>Evacuate Seoul and everything north of it
>Declare war if they haven't attacked already
>Establish air superiority
>Aim every single piece of tube artillery, every MLRS, every single plane against their artillery
>Hold ground for two weeks
By this time, Nork air assets will be gone, ground forces can;t do jack shit without their arty, and the country is starving. They either die, or you start marching inland.

>>34518356
>to silence their artillery pointed at Seoul
This is the only primary goal.

Air defense and air assets are dubious (and dusbiously maintained) at best.
Ballistic missile capability is clearly sub-par.
Nuclear weaponry cannot be used in conventional warfare. The USA will retaliate - with bigger, more powerful, more numerous nukes.
Their ground forces cannot advance into South Korea. They'll run out of supplies within a week, after which any lost terrain can be easily recaptured. However, the Southern army is literally decades ahead, it'd just be a slaughter.

>>34518597
>Once the Artillery teams know their entire country is reduced to ash they will lay down their arms
You underestimate several generation's worth of propaganda. They'll stop shelling once they run out of ammo (likely), or once they're dead.

>>34518405
oppenheimer just did a bit on why nuclear counter battery needs to be ridiculously massive to be effective against dug in positions. I should have screenshotted it. Anyway, no low yield option, you need to go really big

>>34518371
>battleships
yeah right, we'll just have to break them out of their concrete display ports.

>>34520569
Agree with this to some extend, however I do see some potential problems: First being simply the difficulty of silencing thier numerous artillery assets. I think you're right about the Norks not being able to deny the airspace to the US/SK/Japs but even in the Kosovo-krisis jets was lost, and NK has way more AA than the advesaries had back then. It's either going to be somewhat slow methodic work, or it's going to be ugly.

Another point. We can't be sure that an intensive bombing campaign will result in a surrender - despite starvation and ect, to be honest history tells us that they won't. Now actually putting boots on the ground is going to be a slaughter. The amount of tunnels and forticications in NK make those in Vietnam look like nothing. Just try to google the underground complexes that they have built. It's kinda impressive.
As for bombing them, cutting them off and waiting for them to surrender: there is no saying that they will only use the nuke-threat (which is harder to completely illiminate than I believe most people think) to make the attack stop, or finally actually launching nukes at South Korea, Japan or US bases as a last breath of the NK regime.

>>34520766
Typo. There's no saying that they wont' use their nuke threat...

>>34518304
>Armchair generals, develop a complete battle plan for North Korea, NO Retaliation from Russia OR China expected.

OK, then my plan is for China and Russia to attack NK.

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>>34518304
To achieve best results, it should be performed as a surprise unprovoked(because norks are always on the aleart when they provoke with MRBS launches or nuke tests) attack.
>deploy 4-5 carrier groups and all available ESGs in yellow and japan seas at a standoff distance so norks can't see them
>get accurate locations of the nork high command
>deploy serious airpower in Japan and Korea (the airbases are already built so we're looking at ~3 months to achieve)
>spam PAC-3s a bit in depth, around Seoul, Incheon and Busan (if norks try to fire form the east)
>reinforce the USFK to 6-7 combat brigades with 100-120k men

The battle:
>1,000+ aircraft take off from Korea/Japan/Guam/Okinawa to reach DPRK at 1-2AM
>massive SEAD led by F22/35s and B-2 with standoff weapons, Growlers and F-18s, F-15 and B-1s start the second wave, bombing military compounds
>DPRK navy is destroyed at port, air force- on the ground
>south korean artillery and air force start shredding the nork border gun spam later that night since norks are stuck in the 50s and probably wouldn't offer much counter battery fire
>south korea starts advancing and sweeping away any resistance with superiour firepower and undisputed air superiority
>US SOFs secure/sabotage reactors and various nuclear sites
>a division of US marines and a brigade of paras land 40km form Pyongyang, later that week being reinforces by at least another division by sea
>after 2-3 weeks, korean and US forces from the bridgehead meet around the capital
>1-2 weeks after that, what's left of the nork resistance runs out of ammunition and is swept away
>rest of the country is completely swept in another 2-3 months (the north NK is mountainous)

Losses: (only KIA)
>S Korea: 100-200k military and 50k civilians
>USA: ~20-30k (urban warfare is a bitch), 2-3 destroyers and ~50-80 aircraft
>DPRK: 2-4m combined (depending on fanatism)

>>34520766
>even in the Kosovo-krisis jets was lost
Because they had somewhat competent AA operators. North Korea's AA assets consist of mostly guns, not missiles, and there's significant doubts if they can even engage US air assets. Even if they could, there will be regular counter-AA missions.

Vietnam was only as bad as it was because of Chinese support. An assault on NK hinges on there being no support at all from China, which means it's a tiny economy vs. several huge ones.

>>34520784
If they launch a nuke, US retaliation will be swift, imminent and complete. It's simply not a viable option - and there's a large chance said nuke is hard to deliver (even to Japan or SK), and an even bigger chance that it can be intercepted.

>>34520795
You are assuming they will fight, and your estimations are, quite litterally, gulf War like.

I don't think they will fight at all, beyond a few hardliners units. The biggest problem will be the logistical issues with mass surrenders

>>34520795
>2-3 destroyers and ~50-80 aircraft
I'd say 2-3 aircraft, at most.

>>34520836
Oh come on, in an operation like this 20+ aircraft will be FUBAR only by engine failures and accidents.

>>34518304
Step 1 Goad NK to actually attack Seoul. This sounds crazy but gains the support of the international community and most importantly stopping either Russian or China from directly getting involved (I know the original scenario states they won't get involved, this just is a side benefit). Use "Remember Seoul" as a rallying cry.
Step 2 Organize the international community. Full sanctions on anybody who helps NK and get a coalition of military forces together in preparation for an invasion.
Step 3 Start air campaign. Focus on military assets and especially NK air power.
Step 4 Issue ultimatum to Kim family and "advising" generals to surrender the country. I don't expect them to actually surrender but that would be nice. If they do surrender but run to China or Russia, don't pursue them as US or the coalition (if SK wants to they can on their own).
Step 5 Land invasion by coalition forces. Use up and coming powers as testing forces to see how both they and NK forces react and organize. Take over offensive duties once patterns are recognized. Use the same forces as occupying troops (so any atrocities are blamed on them).

This would not just be a war to show our strength. We did that in the Persian Gulf War. This is a war to test out potential enemies in the future and potentially stunt their growth.

>>34520831
>I don't think they will fight at all
You underestimate the nork total brainwashing that's been going on in the last 65 years. A good chunk (5-10%) are some type of politofficers and will totally pull the gook trick with suicide attacks, banzai charges an the whole array of dirty 4th gen warfare memes. Also, everything will be boobytrapped and a malnourished nugget-wielding nork will be waiting behing every door.

>>34520853
Sure, but KIA implies shot down by the enemy.

In the Iraqi war, more US fixed wing planes were shot down by US AA, than by Iraqi AA.

>>34520897
Yeah, should've included them separately but char limit maxed out. There will still be a 1-2 dozens of 4th gens and para transports shot down over several months by various manpads, hidden launchers etc.

thousands of ICBM strikes filled with air burst anime

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How would pre-emptive evacuation of Seoul before actual hostilities go?

Naturally the North Koreans would have no trouble seeing this happening but as a first response action before any shots are actually fired, I think it would be effective. Rush the Korean gunners into firing early, which, while still accurate since they've had half a century to lay the guns on target, won't get the same result as an immediate, coordinated first strike since Seoul's population now has about an hour's head start into the shelters.

>>34520889
>You underestimate the nork total brainwashing that's been going on in the last 65 years

No, I am saying you are overestimateing it. Every documentary that has been there that got CANDID interviews of the populace shows they know its all BS.

>>34518304
Covert negotiations with generals of local areas to gain military access, or even support, in exchange for postwar concessions.

If you really want to go full retard, orchestrate landings along the coast with follow-on airborne assaults to outflank artillery positions near the DMZ and immediately threaten Pyongyang. Casualties in this scenario are likely to be the highest of any US military action in recent memory

conclude a non-aggression pact with china,dividing your sphere of influence with theirs
ask the norks to concede some land inbetween the parallel and accuse them of being unreasonable when they reject your claims
orchestrate a false flag attack on Seoul , detonating a round somewhere near the heart of Seoul and attribute to a stray round
the international community would scream in rage, basically everyone would rally for the worst koreans
then stage a mock up attack of some border city with people in fake uniform, make sure to leave a corpse of a nork with their uniform to make it more convincing
unleash a combined arm assault right into their land and take out their capital
the chinese will come soon enough swoocing in right through the north, make sure you hide any war crimes they commit for your interest
now wait until the inevitable conflict with the burgeoning commies

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>>34520473
>psyops
I did a degree in audio technology and did a minor amount of psychological warfare against my awful housemate. When I worked nights I would have my sub pointed at the floor (he was below my room) and I made a loop that every 2 minutes his room would be hit with 32hz (the resonant frequency that made his ceiling shake) and my L and R monitor speakers would spit out a whispering voice saying his name every few minutes. It was enough to keep him waking up on occasion and think since I was out and the noise wasn't constant that he was just having bad dreams.

Dude was a cunt. Unplugging my internet access during the day so his YouTube videos would upload faster. Not to mention the theft of my aftershaves and food.

I want to get into psyops. Anyone got any good reading material other than the Vietnam death sounds?

Pic related, the sub. It doubles as a great coffee table.

>>34518336
>neutron bombs
You know, despite how much of a meme these are, and the fact that no one has any anymore, this might be exactly the type of nuclear weapon you want to use along the DMZ.

Even in real life Russia wouldn't dare intervene and China would get btfo if they tried anything.

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>>34521824

>>34522132
Okay that's cool. Though we could just rig up massive speakers to helicopters and blast them.

Or scale up leaflet dropping and paint the country with paper

>>34518572
>I feel that to defeat the North Korean threat, there is no 'limited' strike option, there is only one.
Yep. Any conflict with NK is gonna end in a fight to the finish.
>Complete and total decapitation, every city is bombed, every factory is destroyed. Complete and total destruction. Maybe that and only that would stop the artillery teams from shelling for hours and hours after they know their glorious leader is vaporized.
...or you could do what they've planned to do for decades, and hunt down the arty pieces with aerial recon and satellite imagery, and not rely on elaborate psy-ops that might not even kill Dear Leader, much less sway lifetime fanatics into surrendering. This isn't WWII, and North Korea isn't a typical enemy. Total warfare would only have a minor effect on the strategic effort (if at all), and it would sow distrust and hatred amongst the populace after the eventual win. Not to mention that adding unnecessary civilian casualties and infrastructure damage just to tug your horn over MUH COMPLETE AND TOTAL DESTRUCTION is just fucking stupid and disregards the human element entirely.
>hey, this artillery's pounding SK positions bad, should we maybe bomb them-
>NO FUCK YOU BOMB THEIR SHIT
>w-what shit-
>ALL OF IT
No. Stop.

>>34518304
We back them to invade the south.
>nobody will ever see it coming.

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>>34518304
North korea is a conventional military. Use Cluster bombs like the BLU-108
From there MOABs to strike the underground bunkers, no need to destroy it entirely, just bury them alive.
Wrap it up with some BLU-96/Bs (FAE-II). Do all of this from high altitude bombing with guide kits.
anti aircraft factors are taken out with whatever means is necessary.

This happens on day 1.

After the strikes the north Koreans will start getting SMS/ radio messages to relocate to "Safe zones" where humanitarian aid is dropped and in approximate location. The military will be offered amnesty, and a chance to keep their jobs if the the senior officers are captured and/ or killed at all levels, this is also via radio.

That is day 2.

We begin airdropping spiders. Millions upon millions of spiders. Day and night as a constant light rain, interspersed with periods of heavier saturation. These are Korean banana spiders, oh yes, capable of building on their own, a six foot diameter web.

This campaign lasts until the end of month 1.

A new provisional government is put in place, with the overarching goal of unifying south and north korean in provincial phases. A separate office is put in place to ease inter species strain between the spidermen and humans.

This endures until year 3, with 45% of North Korea absorbed into South Korea.

At this point a genocidal war erupts between the Koreans, Chinese, and spider-folk. This takes us into world war 3, with the Israeli's recognizing the Arackenazi Jews and subsequently nuking Palestine and Yemen in response for Jewish spider persecution of young vacationers.

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>>34518304
1/5
I can't find the link right now but there is an open source analysis of the actual efficacy of the Nork barrage. It's not as devastating as its made out to be, the people of Seoul are well drilled. Only a portion of the metropolitan area is even in range of the border and the guns are a few miles behind that, so conventional means of counter value vs. Seoul are actually meh. A few thousand people will die, but it's a city of tens of millions and Korea 2.0 will inevitably involve millions of civilians dead north of the border, a few thousand Starcraft players is barely a factor at all.
As for the tunnels, collapsing tunnels is easy as piss, the USAF has a bit of practice at it. The hard part is knowing where they are, but the USAF is pretty good at surveillance too. Like fuck does SK/US not know where more than 3 tunnels are, it just makes no political sense to disclose their locations (Norks will dig a new tunnel, might as well just covertly spy on them using the old one). They don't know all the tunnels, but tunnels can't sustain a full blown invasion, just shenanigans.
The real problems are WMDs (not just nukes, Norks have gas and almost certainly some basic bio too, the latter two deliverable by line artillery and are the real threat to Seoul), booby traps, mines (including potentially nuclear mines and concealed gas dispersion systems), and concealed suicidal ambushes. (Lots of 'trade-up' potential).
Also when the west does start making gainz it will have to deal with the biggest refugee crisis in modern history, which would be a logistical fucking nightmare because it means taking massive amounts of extra food/medical supplies everywhere you go. The roads in NK are non-existent or shitty dirt tracks for the most part, and certainly heavily mined.

>>34518304
2/5
US gear is logistically intensive in its own right (sorry burgers, they are very pretty toys but you know this is true) but operating in boggy jungle means getting stuck in mud, extra mechanical stresses driving off road, more demand for spare parts. On top of the constant high intensity fighting with lots of suppressive hosing of suspicious bushes, you're gonna need to move a lot of brass. And a lot of bandages and blood and morphine and body bags and stretchers and body bags going the other way. All this means more trucks, using more fuel and more spare parts multiplying the issues.
Finally, this all presents a target rich environment where each target is extra valuable and extra vulnerable (limited road space) to Nork light infantry/ SF. Norks have some solid Oper8orz, and even old RPGs will fuck up ammo trucks.
The logistical side gets worse and worse. Heavy traffic exacerbates potholes and will quickly ruin what shitty roads there is. Norks would leave no bridges as they retreated. It's a place littered with valleys, gorges, rivers. The southern invaders would need to lay roads and bridges as they advanced. Hard work, yet more people in the rear to feed and fuel and protect.
Is it doable?
Presently, the ROKArmy has some 495,000 active personnel (frontline, mostly conscripted) and the US Forces Korea is 28,700 strong (mostly Marines and Army frontline, but that includes support and logistical/admin) plus 25,000 ROK Marines. Let's throw in ~25,000 US and leave EU NATO out for now. That leaves 583,000 capitalist pigs squaring off against the KPA's 1,200,000 glorious warriors and 600,000 valiant reservists.
Say the South launched a surprise attack tonight. Despite the numbers disparity, it's difficult to make the case that the Norks are actually the better fighting force, but they are heavily concentrated. There is no room to manouvre on the peninsula, the South can't encircle the north.
It would be a meatgrinder.

>>34518304
However, the KPA would be attrited and fast. Both sides have thousands of dug in artillery emplacements, but the ROKA and US have much better guns, with higher rates of fire, faster setup times, longer range (which also allows for better dispersal), and counter battery RADAR that gives early warning of incoming Nork barrages as well as multiplying the efficiency of Southern arty. Plus drones scouting for artillery targets. The ROKAF and USN would be flying too, but during the first 12 hours it is likely they would be restricted to strategic level targets and SEAD. The USAF/N would also be trying to collapse as many tunnels as it can, as the US has many more penetrating weapons. The first 24hrs would be very intense but also probably quite static. The poorly equipped conscripts of the north would be forced back but the South is also going to be heavily attrited.
The KPA may be fighting on home turf but logistically it is fucked. North Korea has very little fuel reserves, and few working trucks. So little they don't fly their planes and don't drive their tanks during training or exercises. They do have stockpiles of ammunition but under the weight of the air campaign its unlikely they will be able to rearm their frontline units. This leaves them with the supplies they have to hand, and though this would include concealed stockpiles the intense fighting would mean it gets burned though fast.
After 24-48 hours most of the strategic targets would have been bombed or Tomahawked and the DPKAF would be totally neutered. With control of the air the nearest CBG and ROKAF would be able to focus on operational and tactical support for the ground campaign.
At this point the Norks would have to pull back from the DMZ.
But because of the mines, terrain and roads, the ROKA advance would be slow. This is the clutch moment, can the South turn retreat into rout, and shatter the DPRK?

>>34518304
4/5
Well, as evinced above, the answer is probably 'no.' By this point the leading ROK and US units will be fatigued, in need of resupply and have taken casualties not seen since the first Korean war. The ROKA is heavily mechanized with 2000 tanks and 2000 + APCs so the potential is there. Just beyond the DMZ is Hwanghae, flatter than most of North Korea but criss crossed by river deltas. Most of the population lives in the lowlands, and with the mountains in the east a corridor to Pyongyang is formed. 180 km of dense hedgerows, marshland, river deltas and streams, farms and rice paddies, pockmarked by towns and villages. Dense, defensible terrain, few bridges, shit roads, and every few miles of progress brings a few thousand liberated refugees. Starving, terrified, illiterate, unvaccinated refugees. The KPA would confiscate or burn grain stocks as they retreated, exacerbating the starvation crisis.
How does the US+SK win this war?
A conventional enemy might capitulate when his capital is lost, or after a decisive engagement when he feels he can no longer win. Pyongyang is ~180km from the DMZ and ~60km inshore. A breakout that long seems impossible given the terrain and conditions.
It would be a slow, nightmarish crawl all the way to the fake capital.
The only to avoid it would be a sudden breakthrough in the transition from the opening phase of the war, with the norks dislodged and in disorder being routed. But everything is conducive to that not happening.
All this before we factor in the loose cannon aspect. The norks would use nukes, because they have nothing to lose. A last ditch counter value strike at LA makes no sense, but they would try to see what they could get away with.

>>34522745
>>34522773
>>34522783
You have no idea how a perimeter works. Do you?

>>34522816
he doesn't. this isint Vietnam, though people like to think the US military stopped evolving then.

>>34522736
>>34522745
>>34522773
>>34522783
see>>34522312
the first two parts were serious. the rest is a joke.

Want to know how to deal with a heavily forested or mined area with no civilians and a likely enemy presence? Drop bombs that clear out several city blocks and establish a perimeter. The overpessure wave will set off or disable the mines.

>>34518304
Mines would be where my money is, personally, just because it's way easier to do than IRBM, a small 10kt weapon buried at chokepoint. Ground bursts also produce the most fallout, so it has the added benefit of area denial.
And it would kill the momentum of the South. Stunt the advance long enough for retreating Nork units to prepare positions. That's all they need anyway, a long campaign increases the likelihood on Chinese and Russian support.
Desperation and a rapidly advancing enemy would make it an easy decision.
Would the US glass PY? Would they even bother? Why? It might just make the follow-up crises worse!
Tactical retaliation would just be irradiating dirt you're about to conquer; and by this point most of the things worth nuking have almost certainly been bombed anyway.

found the link
http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/

>>34522816
>>34522816
It's a good way to clear bits of Afghanistan, mines themselves only slow or deny areas for the most part anyway, they don't attrit in their own right much. They are a problem because they slow you down or limit your movement under fire.
Rereading, I overemphasized them a bit.
The nuclear mine is a different problem, because they don't need to be arrayed in a minefield.
However, this is a conventional war we are considering, in a very densely vegetated place. It's not the same as fighting angry goat herders, you would need to be bombing a corridor of stuff out every few minutes. Wasting munitions is actually a problem in this scenario.

>>34523043
Conventional = symmetrical I mean *

>>34523043
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJaT4LWTC1k
https://youtu.be/KetozAEuDmg?t=266

pew pew/

>>34518356
ALL OF THEM!

>>34518304
strategic bombing of military installations close to the border, and bunker busters on known artillery positions.

BTFO airforce as well as launch site.

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>>34520889
>banzai charges an the whole array of dirty 4th gen warfare memes.
Nuclear Backpacks when?!

>>34518304
Bribe one of his generals to be my puppet, then assasinate kim

>>34522312
underrated post

>>34518982
it's not like the tunnels are huge highways that can transport a battalion of tanks. more realistically its rat tunnels and some malnourished nork squads will be able to get through

>>34518748
Irrelevant if the missile sites themselves are destroyed.

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>>34521824
Did the fucker leave after you installed the sub? What happened to him?

Launch the Radiation weapons.

They fall in country quietly, landing in fields in rivers...everywhere.

Turn on.....


Radiation everywhere.


ALL LIFE DIES

All weapons have chinese markings on them.
Remnants of NK army takes revenge against china.


There I just took care of North korea and started a war between china and NK.

>>34519955
I like it, we could all but guarantee weget enough of the batteries if we just turn every piece of Nork controlled land within 50 kilometres of Seoul into glass

>>34520549
>Implying a massive population moving south will not tell everyone without a brain what you intend to do
>Implying mobilization will not provoke them to shoot first
And that's how anon got most south koreans in Seoul dead

>>34520937
there is no way that you could evacuate that city without the norks knowing about it

you would have to just try to destroy as much nork artillery as you possibly can before they have a chance to hit seoul

>>34525374
He had no idea what it was. Just thought he was having trouble sleeping and had bad nightmares.

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>>34520473
>>Biological agents - pesticide resistant beetles etc - to destroy food crops.
surely this won't come back to bite us in the ass

>>34518304
1st - Prepare for a refugee crisis. Once freed from their prisons and able to escape the regime, many Nork civilians will flee either South (if they know their government is full of shit) or North (if they believe the South Koreans are really going to eat their babies and torture them for no other reason than being Norks). Regardless, the flow of refugees in such a confined region will be biblical. We had a similar problem during the invasion of Iraq, the problem is that we were completely unprepared for it which later bit us in the ass.

2. Precision strikes against communication, radar and ADA sites.

3. Begin a psyop campaign that will incorporate leaflets, loudspeaker broadcasts with clear instructions on how to properly surrender.

4. Fuck with their command. Fake communications broadcasts from Pyongyang instructing (a) certain units to fall back to defend an imaginary perimeter, (b) instruct other units that they are cut off from friendly reinforcements and that they are to surrender peacefully, but pay attention to every detail so they can provide intelligence when they are inevitably rescued, (c) instruct units to attack "false flag units dressed in North Korean uniforms at a certain location, (d) load civilians onto trucks and begin evacuating them to 'captured' areas in the south so they can begin colonizing newly captured areas, (e) announce the 'capture' of Kim Jung Un and that units XYZ are to surrender as part of the ransom for his return, (f) instruct possible reinforcements that the war has been nothing but an elaborate drill and that they are to stand down, (g) instruct units to attack Chinese border posts, (h) inform certain units that the Dear Leader is besieged in his bunker by traitors perpetrating a coup and they are to rescue him, (i) to feed and begin training populations of certain prisons who are to now fight for their homeland.

4. Take out positions along the 38th parallel.

5. Take islands, use them as supply & command posts.

>>34528196
6. Establish air dominance during the island capture campaign.

7. Begin landings on the North Korean mainland without yet crossing the land-drawn border.

8. During step 7, annihilate sections of the land-drawn border with indirect fire, clear with engineers.

9. Once an area has been determined safe for crossing, begin land movement and take the cities as objectives.

10. Send refugees to reintegration areas, begin reuniting families where possible, start turning them into people.

11. Wipe out remaining pockets of the North Korean military and resistance.

12. Conduct a full hand over to South Korea.

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Massive decapitation strike (Shock and Awe style) utilizing Tomahawk's delivered by sea and 2000lb GBU's delivered by B-2's to every known popular location Kim Fatty the Third likes to hang out at. Followed up by bombing known artillery positions along the DMZ. Would also have arty crews on standby ready for counter-battery fire. Could also sound the go hide in a bunker alarm in Soul shortly after the decapitation strikes hit.

>>34525546
>>Implying mobilization will not provoke them to shoot first
At which point you have grounds for war, grounds for mobilising NATP, and most importantly, grounds for getting US boots on the ground.

Also, if they use biological/chemical weaponry in their artillery strike, they're fucked seven ways to sunday. The US has a standing policy to retaliate in kind.

Also also, Seoul is drilled well enough that casualties will be minimal. See >>34522736.

>>34520514
>literacy rates in north korea are startling low
Multiple NGO's agree that North Korea has 100% literacy rates

>>34518304
>No nukes.
>Shit.

You can't smack Norks without massive carpet bombardment. They've spent their lives in learning, teaching and believing Kim family propaganda.

Imagine that they're ISIS with WMDs and 25 million fighters because just like ISIS they will have no problem in strapping little children with suicide vests and women will fight with whatever arms they can spare for them.

Your only choice is to decapitate the state hunting every single member of the Kim family down and killing them. The problem of centralizing power into hands of a small and very selective group is that if that group suddenly disappears there is no longer anyone to lead and army without a leader fall in to disarray and will slowly dissolve.