Why didn't the Soviets Surrender when the Germans invaded?

Probably because if they had then they wouldn't have won.

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Say it with me now:

G E R M A N Y

L O S T

>>34497602
If the Soviets would have just surrendered when they got their shit pushed in like they should have, then the Germans would have won

the soviet tanks and rifles were superior because they could make more of them

>>34497546

Because they only had to delay them long enough for winter.

Because the Russians had a better military doctrine, "Overwhelm the enemy with superior numbers and force."

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that's a peculiar logic hans.

>if you surrender to your enemies, they win!

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>>34497546
>What were they thinking when they fought them?
Probably "Those fuckers stabbed us in the back and I'll be damned if I role over and let them exterminate us."

Also, German technological advantages like tanks didn't really come about until 1942. But by then they had lost their primary objective by failing to capture Moscow and were left trying to make gains in the South. During Operation Barbarossa, German light/medium tanks where pretty equal to the Soviets, the Soviets had a slight edge with the heavy KV series but poor implementation blunted their effectiveness. The Luftwaffe controlled the air but couldn't do much to exploit it to overall German advantage.
By 1942, the Soviets had secured their capital and production had been moved further East and out of range of everything but Germany's few long range bombers.

>>34497546
This is some pretty shitty bait, newfriend.

>>34497546
Because of Plan Ost which was not a big secret.

>>34497546

Why did Germany attack when they didn't even take over the UK and Ireland?

>>34497546
>Why didn't the Soviets Surrender when the Germans invaded?

Better to die on your own terms than live under someone elses and become a slave. That's what softcunts in the West today don't realize, their entire comfy ''tolerant'' civilizations are built on the bones of men who refused to live by anyone else's rules.

>>34498303
>Better to die on your own terms than live under someone elses and become a slave.
>soviet union
>your own terms

there is a reason why most of the soviet satellite states ended up fielding some of the largest and most ardent /SS/ forces in the fight against communism.

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>>34497546
>The T-34 and KV-1 were inferior tanks when compared to the Germans

I don't think so champ. When the Germans invaded they were still using the Panzer III as their AT and the Panzer IV as their Infantry support.

The Panzer IV was upgunned to the KwK 40 after they realized the Panzer III was having trouble penetrating the T-34, the KV-1 was another story.

>>34497609
It's adorable that you think that.

>>34497707
*Those fuckers stabbed us in the back before we could stab them in the back

>>34497546
Actually the Germans had inferior tanks compared to the Russians during the initial invasion, as >>34498492 pointed out. This has been fairly well documented. The Germans used flanking tactics, infantry based AT, and air superiority to make up for their inferiority before the cool tanks started coming out.

>>34498925
During the inital invasion the russians where still rocking T-26 and BT-7. Several hundreds of these tanks were destroyed every day at the beginning of the war.

>>34497546

Are you sure you aren't talking about the Italians and their leadership?

(Who, in a careful and amusing manner, surrendered as fast as they could to the Allies. Heck, they even dreamed of paratroops drop on Rome to escort them safely while leaving the the Royal Army and the population at large under the Germans. How cute.)

Why did the average Frenchman take up arms against the Nazis even after France was decimated?

Why did the Irish rebel against England multiple times over the course of hundreds of years?

Why did the Chinese basically put their civil war on hold while they tried to get the Japanese to fuck off?

Really makes you think

>>34497546
Why didn't Germany surrender after losing the Battle of England?

>>34497546
Same reason romans didn't surrender when Hannibal kicked their arse up and down Italy for years on end. You're not defeated until you admit defeat. Normally doesn't work but once in a while you can pull off a surprising victory.

>>34497546
>surrender
>to the one power in all of europe that actively wants your ethnic groups decimated and sent to siberia whilst keeping the most aryan of them as slaves or pets for bored hausfraus

Honestly, I'd be a communist too if I was facing Generalplan Ost

Germans would've had a better chance if they hadn't treated people under soviet reign like shit. Plenty of people hated the communist regime but then comes an SS unit making you hate nazis even more. Soviet national identity was practically nonexistent but it strengthened in the fight against the germans.

>>34499313
>Germans would've had a better chance if they hadn't treated people under soviet reign like shit.
The Strong Survive and the Weak Perish anon. They had the right idea

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>>34497546
>I mean the T-34 and the Kv-1 were inferior
>The 6th Panzer Division's vanguard entered directly into the well-prepared Soviet ambush. The gunner in Kolobanov's KV-1, Andrej Usov, knocked out the leading German tank with its first shot. The German column assumed that the tank had hit an anti-tank mine and, failing to realize that they were being ambushed, stopped. This gave to Usov the opportunity to destroy the second tank. The Germans realized they were under attack but were unable to locate the origin of the shots. While the German tanks fired blindly, Kolobanov's tank knocked out the trailing German tank, boxing in the entire column.

Although the Germans now knew where they were being attacked from, they could only spot Lieutenant Kolobanov's tank, and now attempted to engage an unseen enemy. The German tanks got bogged down when they moved off the road onto the surrounding soft ground making them easy targets. Twenty-two German tanks and two towed artillery pieces were knocked out by Kolobanov's tank before it ran out of ammunition.[1] Kolobanov ordered in another KV-1, and 21 more German tanks were destroyed before the half-hour battle ended. A total of 43 German tanks had been destroyed by the five Soviet KV-1s
>after the battle Kolobanov counted more than 100 hits in his tank
>Wehraboos

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>>34499318

>>34497707
What this anon said. Hitler flaunted and tried to take the most secured city in Russia, Leningrad instead of Moscow. They did get extremely close though. Also, it was a patriotic war for the Soviets, everyone Russian was behind it, meaning they would take longer for a surrender. Also, the Russians had more people, losing like 12 million in the war

>>34499396
To be fair they had pretty good chances and fought well

>>34497546
>What were they thinking when they fought them?

"Yeah we can win this."

And, oh look, they were right, too!

>>34497609
>like they should have

whom'st bitch this is?

>>34499467
Can't win war working two shifts.

>>34497546
Why didn't Romans surrender when Hannibal attacked?

>>34499467
>To be fair they had pretty good chances and fought well

And lost.

The strong USSR prevailed and the weak Germans failed.

>>34499313
The problem is that this kind of idea leaves their governing ideology in kinda bad place. The east was meant as a new living space for Germans, the colonization was already underway. Of course it meant that slavs and balts living there were meant to "disappear".

>>34499527

Yeah but if they weren't faggots they'd have done like Israel and waited until the war was over.

>>34499536
Well they thought they were just mopping the floor at some point.

>>34499460
8 million military and approx 20 mill civilians

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>>34499392
You know how Lavrinenko was the highest scoring "allied" tank ace?

He wasn't even the highest scoring tank ace on T-34. That would be Emil Seibold, Waffen SS infantryman made tankman.

>>34499467
>they had pretty good chances and fought well
They had shit chances and only lasted as long as they did through luck.

Germany had such an unbelievably atrocious grasp on logistics it's not even funny.

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>>34499467
Good chances of what? Winning the war in the west or the war in the east?

>>34499571
because due to doctrine german aces lived longer that's why they have more kills

>>34499571
Also soviet tankers counted only destroyed tanks meanwhile germcucks counted every damaged tank as knocked out

>>34497546
Unconquerable strength of spirit, comrade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzHj-R9McA

They had balls unlike you

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>>34497546

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because they arent germans

>>34497546

What would have happened if Nazi Germany never attacked the West directly aside Poland and instead went after the Soviets and the middle east? I think the West would have let them with their appeasement policies

Would they have destroyed the Soviets only to have their economy go to shit 20 years later without war?

>>34499277
>Why did the average Frenchman take up arms against the Nazis even after France was decimated?
never happened in relevant numbers. most French girls were sucking off germans in paris.

>Why did the Irish rebel against England multiple times over the course of hundreds of years?
lol. being terrorist has nothing to do with a successful campaign.

>Why did the Chinese basically put their civil war on hold while they tried to get the Japanese to fuck off?
they didn't actually. that's why Taiwan exists.

>>34498334
Yes but when they figured out that the Germans thought only slightly less of them as the communists that support dried up awful quickly.

>>34499989
Look I know it's summer but maybe hold off getting into historical arguments till you've finished your world history requirement.

>>34499467

They did not have good chances, they were a country the size of Texas who thought they could take on the world with the help of (lol) Italy. They were impressive, and it's interesting to think how far they might have got without being hyper aggressive little shits but that was part of their philosophy, kill the untermensch, not make peace until they have the ability to kill them later.

>>34497546
>Implying the quality difference between the mosin and the Mauser would have any impact on the course of the war

>>34498282
Because hitler knew that it was a question of time before Stalin invaded and he wanted to be the first since the one to invade would have a big advantage. Hitler had been planning the war in the east all along and the western front was just an annoyance to him.
TIL the iPhone automatically caps the first letter of Stalin but not hitler

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>>34497546

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>>34497546
they did
over a million of Russian surrender in 1941

then stalin started deporting the families of the one who did, so soldier would rather die than surrender

>>34499649
It inevitably wouldnt have made much a difference, but I've always wondered how the war would have been changed had Germany had a better logistics system, i.g trucks and not horses etc...

>>34497546
cuz they weren't cucks like the g*rmans

>>34498282
In Axis and Allies Germany could take over Britain in the first round of the game

>>34500014
>take on the world
Source: the history channel

>>34499508
This post is retarded no matter what side you're on so you should kys

>>34498905
Lots of people like to say this but never provide any source that Stalin ever was planning to attack Germany. He really seemed to believe in the non-aggression pact and was clearly surprised when the Germans invaded.
With the initial reports, Stalin flatout refused to believe Hitler could have betrayed him and refused to send out orders to try to halt the advance. Such is the ego of a dictator, much like when Hitler refused to believe the Allies were really landing their main force in Normandy.

>>34502106
Look it up some historian published a book about it after the big declassification of documents in the early 90's. Basically he says that Stalin and hitler both planned on invading but also didn't think the other would invade. This is why the Russians were defeated so soundly in the first months, because their armies on the border had zero defensive positions. Some other historians disputed his claims mostly because they didn't want to accept that maybe hitler was right about even one thing.

>>34502325
What is the molotov line?

>>34497546
Stalin was so confident he would win he refusd to leave Moscow.

>>34502106
>Stalin flatout refused to believe Hitler could have betrayed him
flat out bs the only thing stalin refused to belive was how fast the German were able to go trough his division

the fact that Germany destroyed so many planes and tanks is proof that russia was massing it's troops in on her western border
look up the number of new airfield they build in Poland between 1940 and 1941

they were preparing for war and most likely just waiting for the right time, maybe an eventual invasion of the UK

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>>34502106
>Refuses to believe that Hitlaer may attack
>Send order about full battle readiness few hours before Hitler attack
Something is not right with your logic. Maybe you're not clearly understand what happened on Eastern front back then.

>>34502598
This, Soviets wanted the west. WWII didn't even need to happen. Once red army would be modernized and rebuilt Stalin would just order it to steam roll Europe.
tfw we got WWII which ended in half of the Europe being under commies, most fighting white males killed and started white guilt.
We could've had ultimate battle of good vs evil with west vs commies. We could've eradcitaed them if the US would back us up.

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>>34497602
>when you believe might males right, and lose the only war you ever fought

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>>34503042
>Soviets wanted the west.
No, they didn't. Those, who wanted the west (and whole world) were followers of Trotsky and opposition to Stalin's theory of "Socialism in One Country". To the time when Hitler poped out and shitstorm began to formed up, Stalin was in charge and being "Trotskist" became a very dangerous thing.
>Once red army would be modernized and rebuilt Stalin would just order it to steam roll Europe.
Nope, Marxist theory tells that imperialist\capitalist countries will try to defeat young socialistic republic by military force. Antanta intervention and later events showed that theory was right and Soviets began preparation for Big War (also predicted by Marx and Engels). They followed the book, not tried to conquer whole world.

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>>34503201
>No, they didn't.

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>another falseflag wheraboo thread
are these just going to be a daily occurrence?

>>34503042
>World war two caused white guilt

This meme needs to fucking end. If anything the liberal/progressive/counter culture movements combined with decolonization lead to it.

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>>34497546

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>>34503450
*collapses without capitalist subsidies*

>>34502384
Irrelevant. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of troops in the open acting like an invasion force in waiting. But hanks for your contribution, Exception Autist.

>>34503554
>I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of troops in the open acting like an invasion force in waiting.
was just parade)))

>>34503201
I see you've learned your Kosher History well. Thank you for repeating what we've all been told to believe all along.

>>34503425
It's funny how you can say something like this and not realize what is wrong with your statement.

>>34503593
He's right though. Nobody batted an eye over Manifest Destiny and Indian Removal Acts. The world's response to Leopold II's Belgian Congo was "wew lad." European powers dogpiled over Africa and England conquered/bought/or addicted to opium any land they could. Without a large scale cultural and political effort to demonize imperialism, both Germany's and the Soviet Union's acts in WW2 would have been regarded as business as usual for developing Empires.

>>34503732
And this large scale political and cultural effort came from...

>>34497656
Well, time to fap.

>>34503795
Primarily, the socialist/communist diaspora who emigrated to America in the 20s and 30s.

>>34503845
>>>/pol/

>>34497546
Because they weren't faggots like you are.

Ps they won.

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>>34499989

>>34497546
This is probably shitty bait, however I'll take it.
Most accounts of the T-34 and KV-1 in operation Barbarossa on the German side were very favorable. Remember, at this time most of the German armor comprised of short barreled Panzer 4's, 3's and captured 38's. German towed AT guns were largely inadequate too. The reason why the Germans had good success during the early war was largely due to the fact the soviet military was going through major organizational changes due to Stalin's purges, as well as it being a surprise attack.

>>34504371
Go on

>>34502325
and most historians don't believe it

The Germans would've won if the Japanese invaded Russia instead of invading the Pacific

>>34508337
>all of the fucking japanese freeze to death in siberia

>>34508337

No. Stop thinking this.

Even in the darkest days of Barbarossa the Russians still had something like a million troops in the far east, in rough and undeveloped terrain prohibiting any kind of quick Japanese thrust. It would heavily favor the Soviet defenders who were also better equipped even with pre-war tanks and planes, meanwhile the Japs were fully engaged in China and had their hands full already.

Even if the Japanese somehow pulled off the greatest military campaign of a millenium, they just managed to conquer the far east which was mostly worthless to the Soviet war effort, and deal with troops which were already not even used against the Germans.

The most important thing they could have done was stop lend lease convoys to Vladivostok

>>34508401
Anon. Japanese steel is superior to russian steel

>>34497546
gr8 b8 m8, i r8 8/8

russia had the upper hand the entire time. It's not like they pulled off a hard victory, rather, they played their hands extremely poorly considering their overwhelming advantages. Germany would never have won, get over it. And even if Germany could have won (which it couldn't) the ussr would have never surrendered, not on principle, not on logical terms. I mean, would you surrender to an enemy that would take nothing but the subjugation of your race as victory? not much incentive, is there?

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>>34498997
Yea but the T-34 and KV-1 had already been in production for months, while yes the Russians did use inferior tanks, they still had some superior tanks already in the fight.

The KV-1 had it's baptism of fire in Finland, 1939-40, this gave the Russians a chance to work out the problems of the KV-1 and produce more.

>>34497546
Stalin wouldn't let them.

Only faggots surrender as soon as you invade. Tough countries fight to the death.

>>34498997
Big woop. The germans were still using Pz IIs and Pz 38 and pz 35 (ts)

>>34509796
But they were still superior to their soviet counterparts