What is the most realistic/historically faithful depiction of

Kingdom Of Heaven, when Saladin shows us was a true leader is like.

>>34428099
Don't forget to watch the Directors cut and not the studio butchered version.

>>34428099
Saladin was a butcherer.

>>34428099
>>34428293

KoH is hollywood propaganda, a terrible film, and entirely inaccurate historically

Robin Hood (2010)

>>34428088
braveheart

Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

>>34428417
This

>>34428362
That sure is a nice list of films you provided in your post to counter what has been said earlier. thanks

>>34428099
>>34428391
>>34428417
Stop.

OP, most of the movie and TV choreography for Middle Ages combat is garbage, but the least bad one out there is Ironclad.

Game of Thrones has absolute nigger tier melee combat.

This video is decent.
https://youtu.be/Cn36Pb8z3yI

>>34428088
A Knight's Tale

>>34428088
>What is the most realistic/historically faithful depiction of medieval combat in a a Hollywood film

Braveheart. battle scenes are just about perfect.

>>34428826
Lindybeige has already picked apart and trashed Ironclad.

>>34428328
My understanding is that even the Crusade leadership agreed Saladin was a decent guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2XXXIf97sg

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>34428899
I know it's not good. That's why I said the least bad.

>What is the most realistic/historically faithful depiction of medieval combat in a a Hollywood film

Python and the Holy Grail is pretty much the benchmark.

No, I am not joking. and I am a historian who does HEMA.

OK, I am being sarcastic. Holy Grail's combat is terrible. But everything you see in Kingdom of Heaven, Robin Hood, Ironclad, braveheart, etc? They're *equally* terrible, and dont have the redeeming quality of being a comedy like Holy Grail.

Braveheart is utter shit, it does not have a single redeeming quality to it. the story is laughably wrong, the costuming is less accurate than Monty Python, the weapons are wrong, the locations (battle of Stirling Bridge, in an open field. it hardly takes rocket science to work out it was on a bridge.), etc.

Robin Hood? 13th, 14th, 15th even a few 16th C helmets thrown together, costuming from the same spread. combat that's as much of a joke, the only redeeming factor is its not got Kevin Costner...

Ironclad plays up the grim covered in shit stuff to the nth degree, but its pretty fucking terrible all round.

Kingdom of heaven got one name right. the actual combat is a mess.

-

I'm in no way a japanophile, but "13 assassins" from 2010 is perhaps the closest to portraying what actual combat was like, in that its bloody, miserable, and un-glamorous. ok, its a bunch of samurai with all that that entails, but the actual battles and deaths in it are a damn sight closer to the reality than those in the hollywood stuff.

>>34428900
This.

Don't tell an Arab that Saladin was a Kurd. (He was).

>>34428362
KoH the theatrical version was pretty bad. The extended cut with overture, intermission, entre'acte is significantly better, and I do mean it. Even if it still propogandized and innacurate.

>>34428899
so what you're saying is that ironclad is very accurate

>>34429422
While lindy beige is garbage, iron clad is also garbage.

>>34429481
having seen lindybeige but not ironclad, i can accept this

>>34428899
Lindybeige a shit.

Although it was largely a stupid movie, Troy had very realistic portrayals of pole arm use by professional soldiers.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=v67K9pJsjbQ

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>>34429481
>>34429504
Lindy is awesome, even if I disagree with him half the time.

The main misconception that Hollywood makes with medieval battle is that the vast majority of fighters were carpenters, leathersmiths, blacksmiths, barbers, farmers, butchers, and slaves. Very few were ever trained in any way, and even fewer were dedicated as professional soldiers. Most were just craftsmen who showed up with their work tools and no training. Most of the killing was done with carpentry and farming tools.

>>34429705
This

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aNa3Co83_gk

Valhalla Rising

>>34429724
that flute player must be the most popular guy in the camp

>>34428328

So was everyone else for that matter

>>34429940
not the baker, nor the candlestick maker

>>34428088
Maria The Virgin Witch

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>>34429868

Not Hollywood, but Alatriste. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625iTKITRoA

>>34429705
Nobody has actually seriously believed this to be true about the Middle Ages since the fucking 60's. Please, read actual accounts of fighting, troop rolls, armoury lists, actual history.

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HistoriaCivilis has some good content on youtube and Decisive Battles of Ancient History was one of the better History Channel programs.

Neither depicts individuals though.

>>34430476
Nobody who knows anything. But Hollywood portrayes that everyone fighting was a professional soldier, and as such most people believe that to be true. #fakenews

macbeth

>>34428088
Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Sn_TiPPlQ

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Faulting Hollywood movies for not being historically accurate is like walking into olive garden and wondering why they arnt serving real Italian food. all yall is fucking dum

The sword duels in Rob Roy were pretty good, 18th century Scotland was basically medieval right?

We're talking about personal combat, which despite what Hema wishes was true is not well documented at all. Films can take liberties with melees. When they fuck up how a trebuchet or seige engine works is less forgivable.

>>34428293
this

pretty good overall. history autists will still REEEEE at it for hollywoodisms like fighting without a shield/17th century persian armor/etc but it is the closest to good major motion picture out there.

>>34429959
Unironically this.

>>34428892
Wrong

Ermanno Olmi's - Il mestiere delle Armi
(The trade of war)
Alatriste

Ironclad is decent
KoH director's cut the same

>>34429210

13 Assassins is fucking dope.

>>34428088
None of them. Have a good day.

>>34428826
That was a nicely choreographed duel, in that vid. Lasted about ten times as long as any HEMA fight I've ever seen, but that might even be realistic if you you don't fight by points. The one thing I do not believe is that they actually disentangle from grappling - that I've never seen happen.

Rob Roy.

>>34428088
Shit. I love medieval illuminations. Just look at that guy, he's got a god damned axe in his head and what does he do? He smiles and shrugs it off, "Yup, you got me. You finally caught old Tater Salad." Fucking classic.

>>34428907
Wallace changes weapon three times during the charge

>>34430347
>ywn operate operational black ops in Flanders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDS7l3sbXw

>>34428826
Game of thrones is to Melee what The Walking dead is to guns

>>34433401
The silent throat slash not alerting anyone nearby trope is one of the worse film things that never goes away, and gets my eyeballs rolling every time

Star Wars Episode VI

>>34433038
>tfw no cool alias

>>34431109
>We're talking about personal combat, which despite what Hema wishes was true is not well documented at all
There's fucking hundreds of texts on this topic

>>34429705
>The main misconception is...
>Immediately goes off into the biggest misconception pseudo-historians spew

I suggest you look up medieval troop rolls
They weren't all men-at-arms who trained regularly but people were required to train to perform their role.

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>>34429210
>but "13 assassins" from 2010
7 samurai combat is good as movie can be too.


>Python and the Holy Grail is pretty much the benchmark.
>They're *equally* terrible, and dont have the redeeming quality of being a comedy like Holy Grail.
Kek. May even agree.

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>>34430347
Not bad, overall.

>>34434252
But of course. I mean, well, there's a couple of vary obvious duels, but they're goddamn duels. Otherwise, it's ambushes and fortifications. Kurosowa is the shit.

>>34429537
Troy is legitimately my favorite movie

>>34428417
this

>>34429705
this guy is a retard who never educated himself in this subject

>>34428811
It's trash not only as a historical film but as a film in general. Directors cut is a decent film, but still shit historicaly
>>34428417

>>34429210
What about "Alexander Nevsky" by Eisenstein?

Movie battles are not accurate because the director needs to clearly show the hero/villian fighting instead of a scrum of people hitting wildly at each other as in real life. You see this in kung-fu films as well. That's why we always see actors fighting one on one when that's retarded and foolish. In reality, you gang up on a sucker and beat him while he's down and move on to the next. Real melee combat has more in common with street riots and prison fights than Total War Games.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier is pretty solid...

Parts of this are pretty goofy but it's definitely not a typical over-choreographed Hollywood fight scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waVOnG-PEw

>>34437870
that one isnt that bad compared to how much people butcher combat
but its still not good

>>34429537
>>34434888
Though I thought Troy was a shit of a movie, that fight scene between Achilles and Hector was probably the best swordfight ever

>>34428088
Game of Thrones Season 6 episode 9 : Battle of the Bastards

>>34429705
Whew lad


No one listen to this nonsense

>>34439012
Has some flaws for sure but probably the ONLY film to showcase some good use of armor.

One on one fighting in armor was either done really quickly because one guy just was outmatched or had some damn tough grappling in there somewhere.

Films never show that.

>>34428088

this

https://youtu.be/7EAuLL9n42s

>>34429705
Maybe levy's but late medieval was mostly professional

The problem with depicting melee fights with any sort of accuracy is that it would be far too dangerous. A firefight you can make look realistic easy, it would look boring but be realistic. A melee practically impossible without CG, even if you fight with rubber swords getting stabbed in the eye will still fuck you up.

None of you mother fuckers has brought it up yet. How is this not an issue. Are you just film morons?
The Duelists with Keith Karadine and Harvey Kietel.
It nails suspense. It has a lot of stuff that seems historically accurate. I love that fucking movie. I swear I'm going to disown you as a son and not even fuck your mother over this.

>>34441529

ummm... I forgot?

sorry dad.

but i got an okay sabre duel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDj5UPZNzsU

>>34441515
>The problem with depicting melee fights with any sort of accuracy is that it would be far too dangerous.
nah, just need to use thick armor like 2-3mm hammered steel. it would be plenty safe to use blunted swords for real. actors (and mostly stuntsmen) can rest a lot between takes so the extra weight is not much of a problem.

>>34430590
You have it backwards. The reality is that most of those fighting were trained to some extent, be they mercenaries hired by burghers to fulfill obligations, burghers themselves who were required to furnish arms and armor (and not farming tools) and who fought as part of a militia as an obligation born from citizenship, archers who were legally required to regularly train even in civilian life, or men at arms who literally existed as a social class to train and fight. Peasant levies did not exist. If you fought, you were almost certainly trained to some extent. Mercenaries and professional soldiers and warriors (note that this is different from professional armies) were the norm of the battlefield, except in perhaps desperate siege situations where townspeople assisted the defenders.

>>34428900
He was a decent guy for the time in that he kept his word to his enemies. For example he honored the agreement to allow the Christians to Jerusalem if they paid a per head ransom so most avoided getting sold into slavery. Agreements of that kind were broken by other Mohammedan leaders who then brutally tortured those they captured.

>>34430347
I got into early gunpowder/late tercio era warfare though the 1632 series. Altriste is pretty much how it went, with the tercios pikemen's spears standing off a few inches from each other bodies, and gutter rats , which were mostly young boys and small men, running under the pike with knives to hamstring the front ranks of the other side, and getting into some nasty as fuck knife fights against the other side along the way.

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>>34429868
Yup

>>34428899
So you are saying that it is pleasantly historically accurate?