When and why did Cavalry die out? I'm always told "Guns

>>34399333
right after WW1

Motorization mostly.
Also in old times maybe the first line fell to fire when charging, now with automatic weapons i doubt any horse would even get to the enemy.

>>34399333
>When

1914-1918

>and why

Because airplanes and armored cars can do the job better.

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>>34399333
>When and why did Cavalry die out?

They never did, they just moved to the third world

>>34399343
>>34399388
Poland still used calvary in ww2.

So you guys are wrong. Clavary died faster in developed countries but was still around to 1930's in other places.

>>34399333
Horses are a bretty good form of cross country transport. In the latter stages cav were highly mobile mounted infantry.

>>34399467
Poland used cavalry like once in WW2 and it was useless. Stop being stupid.

>>34399333
Calvary died because charges died. There was no point in getting close to the enemy when you could easily fire at them from at least 300 yards with a rapid fire.

>>34399333
Police still use them

>>34399507
Sure but calvary did not completely die right after ww1.

>>34399467
The battles and skirmishes in which this young lieutenant was a protagonist (Amedeo did not have the appropriates rank, but he commanded an entire brigade) are boldly written in the British bulletins of war. The "devilries" that he created from day to day, almost seen as a game, explains why the British called him not only "Knight from other times" but also the Italian "Lawrence of Arabia". Horse charges with unsheathed sword, guns, incendiary and hand bombs against the armoured troops had a daily cadence.

A look at official documents show that in January 1941 at Cherù "... with the task of protecting the withdrawal of the battalions... with skillful maneuver and intuition of a commander... In an entire day of furious combats on foot and horseback, he charged many times while leading his units, assaulting the preponderant adversary (in number and means) soldiers of an enemy regiment, setting tanks on fire, reaching the flank of the enemy's artilleries... although huge losses of men,... Capt. Guillet,... in a particularly difficult moment of this hard fight, guided with disregard of danger, an attack against enemy tanks with hand bombs and benzine bottles setting two on fire while a third managed to escape while in flames."

WW2 North Africa.

>>34399507
Cavalry still had its uses during WWII as well (not as a front-line fighting force anymore, but just because something isn't suitable for fighting in the front lines it doesn't mean it's obsole), Soviets used cavalry as well.

The use of horses in a cavalry means died around 1939 (after the Polish use of them). But the concept of cavalry still persists to this day (such as the use of light armour in a rapid movement role).

At dawn Gulliet charged against steel weapons with only swords, guns and hand bombs at a column of tanks. He passed unhurt through the British forces who were caught unaware. Amedeo then returned to the steps in order to recharge. In the meantime, the British succeeded to organize themselves and fire at raised zero with their howitzers. The shells ripped open the chests of Guillet's horses before exploding. It was the last cavalry charge that British forces faced as well as one of the last in the history of warfare.

Another cavalary charge took place little more than a year later when a friend of Guillet, Colonel Bettoni, launched the men of the "Savoia Cavalry" against Soviet troops in Russia at Isbuchenskij

>>34399585
Oh yes I did forget about the use of cavalry by the SS to subdue partisans and the Russian use of them.

>>34399585
This is me, sorry about forgetting those instances.

>>34399610
Shit I cooked that, >>34399594 is actually me.

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>>34399333
>When and why did Cavalry die out?

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>>34399333
It didn't - it just traded its horses for helicopters.

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32 cavalrymen had died, including the commanders of the 3rd and 4th squadrons, 52 were wounded. Well over 100 horses were also lost. The enemy had left behind 150 dead, 300 wounded, 600 prisoners (among which some Estonian platoons equipped with Italian uniforms taken from the Sforzesca division), 4 cannons, 10 mortars and 50 machine guns...

Shortly afterwards some German liaison cavalry officers arrived. They were deployed at the left of the Savoia and they had witnessed everything from the neighbouring heights. They expressed their wonder and admiration for the anachronistic episode to Bettoni Cazzago saying: "Colonel, these kinds of things, we cannot do them anymore".

After removing the wounded and the dead, the battlefield remained covered with dead horses....................

Some horses, even though riddled by bullets, would keep galloping for hundreds of meters, squirting blood at every beat, suddenly collapsing only a while after their actual death.

Eastern Front. Italian cavalry charge on soviets

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Flag of the Savoia Cavalry regiment. The Savoia Cavalleria got the last victorious cavarly charge

"Colonel, these kinds of things, we cannot do them anymore".

>>34399507
>Poland
>Once
Even germany used calvalry (as a more casual way tho) in stalingrad, its still transport, and also carry artillery

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inb4 : machine guns

Cavalry was already becoming weaker since the 17th century. It has been obsolete ever since Infantry could output enough firepower to stop any charge thanks to breech-loading rifles. It stayed relevant only for raiding, scouting and capturing artillery guns.

>>34399333
Combination of guns, trench warfare, and mechanization. They are still in use in some forms, such as mounted police, border patrol, ceremonial nature, and in special operations.

>>34399723
They didn't have breech loading rifles until the latter half on the 19th century. Even then, they actually helped the cavalry stay relevant, as they cav made use of such rifles. Look at the Indian Wars

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Cavalry is extremely inefficient in terms of equipment, space, capability and cost per soldier.

You could fit all the men in this photo into two trucks.

>>34399467
So did the Russians and Germans long after Poland was occupied. Calvary was still useful for patrolling and as mounted infantry.

Allegedly the last British cavalry charge in history took place in March 18 (other sources state March 24), 1942 in Burma. A force of roughly 100 cavalrymen, consisting of Burmese conscripts, led by Indian Sikh officers and commanded by captain Arthur Guy Sandeman, was performing the reconnaissance of the area near Toungoo, roughly 250km northwest of Rangoon. Captain Sandeman spotted some Asian soldiers on a hill nearby, building some sort of fortification – he knew a Chinese auxillia was in the area, so he paid them no heed. Little did he know he just ran into Japanese vanguard units. He found out the hard way only after two Japanese machineguns started firing, killing many of the men in the open.
Sandeman did not panic – in fact, he ordered the bugler to signal the “charge!” order, drew his cavalry sabre and charged the Japanese position along with the rest of his troops, screaming their Burmese battlecries. They never made it to the Japanese lines, in the open and without cover, they had no chance whatsoever – captain Sandeman died that day with a sword in his hand.

The American last charge actually happened only months earlier on Philippines. On 16th of January 1942, the situation was looking bleak for the American and native Phillipino troops, as the Japanese were attacking the islands in force. On that day, US 26th Cavalry unit moved towards a town of Moron, when they ran into advancing units of Japanese 122nd Infantry. The US commander, Lt. Edwin Ramsey didn’t wait for anything and ordered his cavalrymen to charge. With guns blazing, the cavalry smashed into the Japanese infantry on the main town street, routing them in the process. After breaking thru the Japanese line, they turned around and scattered, picking off the Japanese survivors of the charge one by one. By the end of the day, the town was cleared of Japanese forces and the cavalry occupied it, only to be called back during the general retreat a day later.

>>34399797
>322 KB JPGCavalry is extremely inefficient in terms of equipment, space, capability and cost per soldier.You could fit all the men in this photo into two trucks.

You are missing the point the horse is an ATV that lives on grass and can be eaten.

>>34399774
>They didn't have breech loading rifles until the latter half on the 19th century. Even then, they actually helped the cavalry stay relevant, as they cav made use of such rifles. Look at the Indian Wars


The Boer commandos made extensive use of breech loading carbines as cavalry in the mobile infantry role, in fact the carbine evolved as a cavalry weapon.

Lets see what happens when the oil runs out someday gentlemen. The cavalry are not gone. Only resting.

>>34399723
Cavalry often made up 1/3rd to 1/2 of Western European armies in the 17th century, and the proportion was even greater in Eastern Europr and Turkey. So that's nonsense.

To take one random example, both the Swedish and Imperial armies at Lutzen were 1/3rd cavalry. At Kircholm, the Poles had 2,6000 horse and only 1,000 foot, and still routed a much larger Swedish army .

>>34399838
>It's a "horses don't need any maintenance" implication

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>>34399632

You mean Tanks

>>34399926
Isn't it because they were up against matchlocks wielded by unprofessional soldiers ? By the 18th century, cavalry wasn't the main component of armies anymore.

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Technically they never died out. US Army still has a remount service and trained horsemen.

They're only used for demonstrations, shows, parades, etc, but they're horsemen none the less

>>34399952
Are you implying mechanic shops are more plentiful and easily found in nature than fodder, grass, and water?

>>34400412
>Horses don't have medical issues

Literally retarded

>>34400306
>but they're horsemen none the less

Patton would strongly approve.

>>34399467
>Poland still used calvary in ww2.
Poland got fucking wrecked in ww2. What's your point?

>>34399632
Tanks, trucks, helicopters. Even airplanes are a cavalry of sorts. It depends on what you think the purpose of cavalry was - trucks and helicopters make for dragoons, helicopters and tanks are both light and heavy cavalry.

Honestly I don't even know why the army has an armor branch.

>>34399952
>>It's a "horses don't need any maintenance" implication

You can't eat a jeep with a busted transmission and you can't take it where you can take a horse without a logistics train. Cavalrymen were trained to shoe horses etc had veterinary officers. They had a useful role until very very recently and undoubtedly will again someplace. Most of the German transport in WW2 was horses. The obsolescence of the horse is entirely based on the rise of oil and mass production...not a situation that may definitely continue or indeed be available as the modern style of warfare is dependent on massive and complex supply chains.

I get it. You can't ride.

>>34399333 (OP)

Technically they are around. Gun powder did not end their need, vehicles and roads did. Also considering how many in the wold are trained to use Western, English, etc saddle riding. If for some reason horses are needed there are more than enough people left to train others to ride again.

>>34399333
As the mean of main assault power - by the time of WWI. You can't do much of a horse riding in the trench against enemy machine guns
As the mean of transporting troops - by the beginning of WWII. Soviets and germans used horses when there was a truck shortage

>>34400540
static urban warfare is not the history of warfare. I anything in COIN in places like afghan mules would have been fucking useful not youtube videos of shitty robots trying to be mules. Why not? No skillset for working with animals left in western populations outside of critical food production industries

>>34400574
Do ISIS troops make charges while riding mules and camels? No. Do they use them to get to the battlefield and then fight as ordinary infantry? Neither.
This is not a cavalry, just animals carrying goods

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Around the same time swords stop being useful on the battlefield.

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>>34399333
A combination of barbed wire, tanks, machine guns, and trench warfare caused cavalry to become obsolete on the battlefield. However the special forces still use cavalry units.

>>34400622
>he didnt read Horse Soldiers

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>>34401076
>you will never participate in a calvary charge
why live?

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>>34401528

To participate in a long-range, behind enemy lines cavalry raid

>>34399333
Machine guns in WW I are the real reason they were removed from battle.

A tank can handle being shot at by small arms fire, a horse cannot. So the tank replace it. But you already knew that.

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>>34401542
thats not even close to being the same

I'm guessing a good number of you have never owned horses, and have no idea how incredibly fragile they actually are.

They're boxes on matchstick legs with temperamental digestive systems.

>>34400412
You don't need a "mechanic shop" to maintain a vehicle.

>>34401794
No, but you do need one to maintain a mechanised unit.

In the winter of 1941 Army Group Center was losing a thousand horses per day, largely due to exhaustion. Local panje horses were found to be too small to haul steel wagons designed for heavy horses, and the heavy horses were skeletal wrecks incapable of work. Out of 11 million horses in Europe 7 million were either dead or in military service by the end of the war. I'd also like to note that it takes less than 4 years to produce a new truck ready for service. German horses were ideally acquired about three years of age and they spent a year in training.
>muh fodder
In France at least units rapidly ran out of local fodder and needed to have it shipped in by rail. Fodder for one horse takes up way, WAY more space than fuel for one truck for the same amount of time.

t. someone who grabbed a full book on the Axis use of horses for no clear reason and became unhealthily interested in the topic.

>>34399333

Right question is not "why horses when we have trucks and ATV´s", but "why horses when we have bicycles"?

Why would we equip troops with horses?
>Faster mobility than on foot
>Requires less supply than truck
>Good offroad mobility
>Can carry relatively heavy load even offroad

Why would we NOT equip troops with horses?
<Warhorses need training so that they don´t scatter off when rifle is fired
<They die(diseases and wounds as well as bullets and shrapnel)
<They need food and medicine(grass only doesn´t feed battalion or company of horses properly)
<They are slow when compared to trucks(horse mounted elements lag behind rest of the division/brigade.)

In general, you would need to equip full brigade with horses to prevent mounted elements from falling behind. Strategic mobility of horses is really not good. It is actually quite shit. Horses need to walk or they get exhausted. Transporting horses faster needs completely other logistical element(trucks or railroad) dedicated for this job.

Bicycles dont need fuel or food and travel way faster on road than horses. Bicycle also allows soldier to carry all of his individual stuff with him. Horseman wouldn´t really have more stuff than regular infantryman anyways, so the better carrying capacity of horse isn´t really used.

Only advantage horses have is the offroad mobility, but i dont really see large formations taking long offroad routes that trucks or bicycles couldn´t use. Advances are always "road-directed", because of the massive logistic train following the frontline troops.

Cavalry is just too slow for modern motorized/mechanized combat and doesn´t really offer any relevant advantages over cheaper, easy-use bicycles. For some long range, behind-enemy-lines-patrol that needs to carry heavy loads, offroad, out of sight, horses might be useful, but in very limited numbers.

>>34399519

Shooting the horse gets you manslaughter+copkiller

>>34399821

Statistical outliers have two purposes: to prove that something can happen every time, and that it can never happen.

>>34399467
>>34399343
>>34399388
Chinese were using it till' 50's

The last American cavalry charge was in 1942 against the Japanese, but cavalry as a concept was obsolete once barbed wire and machine guns hit the field. So just prior to WW1.

Here's a good article on the subject:
http://angloboerwarmuseum.com/Boer20c_techofwar_lance.html

>>34399507
They actually were doing pretty good hazing german infantry. And then they got flanked by german tanks. Which went exactly how you'd expect.

>>34399333
How many of them fucked their horses?

>>34401584
That is exactly what they did for hundreds of years since the invention of the rifle. What the fuck do you think they did during the Civil War?

>>34402786
>say i want to participate in a calvary charge
>you say just go on a long range patrol
>no really its what they did for hundreds of years
how many point did your recruiter have to add to your asvab for you to mee the minimum?

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>>34400306
Actually, if I'm not mistaken they were pressed into serving in Iraq when they needed a fast response unit for the really rough terrain that the Stryker was unable to maneuver through. Cavary still exist in China and India through intertia because why should these trained men be placed into a shitty T-55 that they don't know how to use and would operate less effectively in? Cavalry and mechanized unit supply lines hardly overlap, so there is no real need to replace one with the other.

>>34402865

There was a women's pro riding champion who was teaching SOF how to ride horses for combat

>>34399507
>Knows fuck all about WWII: The post

Soviet Union, Hungary, Italy, Germany, France, China, Romania, Japan, Mongolia (obviously), Poland and India all used cavalry. Mostly as scouts, or dragoons. But cavalry charges did take place and were often effective.

>>34399333

in WW2 the Germans were reluctant to use chemical warfare because it would have destroyed their horse based logistic system. Some of the commanders later remarked that had the allied forces gone through with using chemical weapons, Germany would have lost sooner.

>>34402915
Mongolia was part of the Soviet Union, so there's no reason to mention it.

>>34399632
>Cav units were probing German lines on horseback in WW2

>>34399904
>what are electrics
>what are biofuels

>>34402915
>>34403346
The obsoletence of cavalry pretty much wrecked Mongolia's ability to be a military power, didn't it?

>>34399333
Cars, trucks and motor cycle is what did it.

>>34399838
What about water?

What about shit and piss?

Also, horses need to rest eventually. You can drive a car days on a fulll tank of gas.

Big thing though...fear and bleeding

Horses get spooked and they can get injured or killed easily.

>>34400509
Your more delusional than Anita Sarkeesian

>>34401528

Closest thing today is yo Join the Riot Mounted Police and charge Antifa or BAMN with a baton.

>>34402106
Not trying sound anti cop or "fuk da pol ess" but I think it's bull shit that animals they use are considered cops and harming them is the same as assaulting a human police officer.

You don't have an argument for it being right until said dog or horse can verbally tell me what I did wrong and then hold a pen and write me a citation.

Further, police intentionally put these animals in harms way and a person trying to prevent a dog ftpm ripping their throat out by pushing it away is a normal thing to expect a person todo...further riot police charge protestors with their horses, dose you being trampled by said horse count as trying to trip an officer?

>>34404100
>dose you being trampled by said horse count as trying to trip an officer?

Yes, you fucking commie

As a mode of transport in rough places it's still viable.

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>>34400540
>germans used horses when there was a truck shortage
The vast majority of the German supply train was always horse-drawn. Every German infantry divisions averaged something like 2,000 work horses for supply and 200 for scout cavalry.

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The cavalry command of the Red Army was also the only branch to largely avoid Stalin's purges, and after the poor performance of their light tanks in Poland the Soviets actually gave the deep strike role to the cavalry, supported by tanks, which later evolved into mechanized units.

>>34399333

Rapid fire portable weapons.
Cavalary died with the invention of the full metallic cartidge. So more or less around the beginning of the XX century it was already fated to become obsolete.

>>34399333
It never really did, some specialized mountain infantry still use them as off-road transport.
Usually motor vehicles are cheaper and more effective though.

>>34401757
Correction: EXPENSIVE boxes on matchstick legs with temperamental digestive systems.

ATV is better except in the absolute most remote areas.

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>>34401076
That grip disturbs me. It's not the first time I see it. Is it how you are supposed to hold a Kilij ?

>>34404317
its perspective and wrist angle they arent holding it reversed

>>34399467
Poland. The country that got their shit pushed in so hard, only second to France

>>34404338
The edge should be on the index side whatever the perspective.

Why did motorcycles never stick around?

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>>34404555
>Poland. The country that got their shit pushed in so hard, only second to France

That might be because they had stalin and hitler either side of them co-operating.

>cavalry in 20th century

Are we talking men who fight on horseback? Because guys who just ride horses around but dismount for combat aren't cavalry.

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>tfw you'll never be a messenger on horseback for Patton

>>34399333
Tell that to the morons at III Corps that insist on wearing a goddamn cowboy hat and spurs while in uniform. I mean, it's Texas, but for fucks sake. Yes I'm mad.

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>Implying Cavalry died out

https://youtu.be/u04KA8eYwBg

>>34404555
Poland lasted 36 days vs germany and the USSR. France, Belgium, The Netherlands, and UK expendition forces lasted 35 days vs Germany.

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>>34405160
>and spurs

>>34401965
are you the faggot who spams battleship threads?

Imagine having a machine capable of moving off road and can move heavy equipment, but instead of gasoline it uses grass/hay for fuel.

Why would anyone want to use such a machine during a time where resources might be limited?

>>34405324
>large skittish animals are the same as a machine
>a battalion or larger element can feed its horses on forage alone
>cocks go in my mouth now

>>34405338
Don't get me wrong here. You won't be fighting the same kind of war like Iraq 1&2. But my point was that horses have been used for non-critical and non-emergency transport during wars even after WW2.

ATVs are handy for scandinavian forest paths, but, from unconventional warfare point of view, I'd rather have a horse carrying ammo, explosives and rations due to them being more quiet and abundance of fuel.

While horses aren't as fuel efficient you can still find more of grass than gas in a war torn / occupied country and getting spare parts for ATVs can be a bit tricky during war.

Lastly you can condition horses to be less sensitive around gunshots.

>>34399467
it was still around, but extremely inefficient. Mainly, it was tought and used in backwater places, more for traditions sake rather than meant for actual warfare. Also, it was effective policing places like the eurasian steppes and the likes (think Kazakhstan, Mongolia and the likes).

There's an account of a german being charged by the 44th mongolian cavalry division during the Battle of Moscow. Similar charges wasn't too uncommon from cossack units, but again, never very effective.

They were used some places in a dragoon sort of style, if you could actually close on the enemy, cavalry could still be somewhat effective, but that's an "all stars aligning" kind of moment, more luck than thanks to the tactics.

>>34399467
Poland was literally starting big modernization just before WW2. Those cav units would be replaced if they had time.

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>>34405414

Good luck finding grass during winter

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>>34404218

In 1943, the horses for the recon company of Heer infantry divisions were reallocated to logistics. As a result, most german recon companies became bicycle units.

>>34405414
hahaha

abundance of fuel? you think that horses can just "eat the grass around them" and sustain themselves?

>>34399333
OP, cavalry is still a thing, it's what we call IFV mounted infantry yo.

The only cavalry that was gone after WW1 was medieval style heavy shock cavalry, meant for literal melee combat. People still rode horses around carrying rifles n sheeeit

>>34399467
>Poland still used calvary in ww2.

Yes...for about two weeks, before they lost that war and were conquered.

There is a connection between action and consequence in this case.

>>34405625
You think you can just pull a jerrycan of fuel out of your ass when you run out? You can only carry so much extra fuel with you.

>>34405699
>Small country between two leading world powers who seek conquest
>Poland lost because they used cavalry

Jesus you are a fucking moron.

Can you dumbass Americans learn how to type "cavalry"? So many retards saying calvary or even calvarly.

>>34399333
Horses are still in use today in areas with shit terrain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Special_Forces_Group_(United_States)#Fighting_on_horseback

>>34399333
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXLcbrD6nsQ

At the moment when machine gun and barbed wire appeared on the battlefield

>>34399797
Yes, but trucks cannot eat grass for fuel.

>>34405717
>>Poland lost because they used cavalry

I didn't say that. You said that.

Why did you say that? That's retarded.

1914

Infantry ran, cavalry pursued, as they always had.

Infantry just turned around, shot the cavalry to pieces, and kept running barely having lost a step.

That was new.

>>34405706
how much hay do you generally have up your ass? A working horse requires more than 30 000 calories a day, and if you're going to let the horse eat only pasture he's not going to have time to do any work at all.

Id take a truck with only a jerrycan over a starving horse any day.

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>>34406394
not terribly new. But it was definitely more effective

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>>34405306
Reaction unclear. Either anger or laughter.
Regardless, I'm not kidding. We're soldiers, not fucking cowboys. It just doesn't look right. Cavalry and Fort Hood just insist on playing Special (Ed). They should keep their Wild West LARPing off duty,

>>34406304
have you ever wondered why people say horses are expensive to own? Even though they have lands with tons of grass?

>>34399343
Both the Germans and Soviets used division sized Calvary units on the Eastern Front during WWII.

They had the advantage of being more mobile then infantry but not needing the POL supplies that mechanized or armored troops did.

>>34399467
>So you guys are wrong.

They're not wrong necessarily. But the use of horses shifted from combat to logistics only. The German army was still using horse drawn vehicles for logistics in WWII.

>>34400059
Based on my studies, the average musketeer of the 17th century probably got more training than the average musketeer of the 18th. A matchlock is much more dangerous than a flintlock and requires a lot more practice to reload safely. There was also more emphasis placed on training accurate shooting in the 17th century, and by the 18th commanders were realizing than was a waste of time because soldiers fire in random directions in actual combat. 17th century formations and evolutions were also more complicated than 18th century lines.

>>34399333
Machineguns put an end to it. Whose worried about horsemen when a MG08 can shoot them at 1000 meters and pour the lead on them?

>>34406454
Talk about sour grapes.

>>34399333
Nitro cellulose pushed them into logistics and offroad vehicles pushed them out of logistics but that was only post ww2.
>>34399343
How is it that the first post is always either genius or borderline retarded?

>>34406899
It's an embarrassment

They make a fool of themselves with those fucking hats when they go to international training

>>34399467

Jesus I'm so tired of this

We used cavalry for mobility and they fought dismounted. These tank charges didn't happen.

What did happen was cavalry units breaking out from encirclement, yes it was done on horseback and it was successful a couple times because the Wehrmacht did not expect it in the middle of the night.

Nobody ever had them charging tanks on purpose jesus christ. Even americans had horse cavalry this early in the war.

t. polak

>>34408202
If you fight dismounted, you're a dragoon, not cavalry. Cavalry fights mounted.

As >>34405538 pointed out, some desperation charges did occur though.

>>34408202
>If you fight dismounted, you're a dragoon, not cavalry. Cavalry fights mounted.

Thats an american distinction.

Also the polish army was going through a modernisation process at that time and the pride of the army, a motorized cavalry brigaded actually acquitted itself very well against the germans, managed to retreat from poland and later formed the basis of the 1st Polish Armored Division that ended up taking Wilhelmshaven in 1945

their general went unrecognized due to political considerations and had to become a bartender in Glasgow after the war

>>34408307

Dragoons fighting dismounted started much earlier, in the 1600's. Then "Dragoons" started having their roles blurred as they started fighting on horseback. It was during the Napoleonic wars that Dragoons lost their original role of mounted infantry, which went over to Voltigeurs for a little while.

Americans employed Dragoons in their original meaning.

>>34408521
Yes, original dragoons were infantry on horseback. Dragoons became more light infantry with the advent of practical and cheap pistols.

>>34408307
>Thats an american distinction.
Not in a generic context like we have here. Otherwise why bother with two words that mean the same thing.

>>34399467
>calvary
>clavary

>>34401251
Finally, someone that has read All Quiet on the Western Front.

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>>34400509
>You can't eat a jeep with a busted transmission
Maybe you can't.

>>34402057
What do you think is the better bicycle design for such a bicycle dragoon role?

There are a number of options, the Swiss MO-05, MO-93, the Montague, and that is about it.

The MO-93 type, with fenders, racks, frame bag, 1X drivetrain, hub generator is the most sensible design for mainline use, with long range mountain bikes converging along similar lines. Replace a few components with current equivalents namely the brakes (hydraulic rim to hydraulic disk), and generator lighting (generator hub with multimode visible/IR LED lights and device charging). Dumb down the derailleur gearing to singlespeed cassette should the troops be unable to maintain the multispeed gearing.

The Montague makes sense if the intended users are going to transition frequently from road to offroad and back like the Bersaglieri; or used from larger vehicles as a patrolling implement (there was an Armored magazine article from the late 90s about this use, bikes deployed from LAV IIIs to quickly patrol the area around but within the LAV's autocannons range).

>>3441111

>>34411111

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I LIKE HORSEs

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>>34405257
>lol look at me and this stupid hat i'm wearing for """""tradition""""" lmao xD

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>>34413290
>hating on a Stetson
>in any context, military or otherwise
Don't worry, anon. I found your traditional silly hat.

>>34413290

What traditions you got, queer?

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>>34399333
>When
Early WW1 primarily, although cavalry are still used to this day. WW1 sees the decline of cavalry as a "charge the flanks" kind of force

>Why
They weren't very good against machine guns. a few well-positioned machine guns could mow down enough cavalry that none would be left to complete the charge.

>>34399507
Cavarly was still widely used in WW2 - notably in China. Poles used Cavalry on a few occasions, as did Japanese and even US.

The battle of Khalkin Gol in 1939 was started by cavalry forces on both sides.
In 1930s China and Mongolia a horse is pretty good to cover distance as not everyone can afford a car and fuel, and not everywhere has a good road to it.

When my dad was in the army, he knew a guy that used to work some sort of special ops. In the late 90s/early 2000s, he was tasked with helping these tribes get rib of the Taliban in their areas. Problem is they didn't have modern weaponry.

Taliban had taken a village, so he gather up the tribe. They had swords and horses. So he called in a bomb strike, and while the Taliban were still stunned and surrounded by smoke, the cavalry charged in and cut them all down with swords. Guy told my dad it was the coolest shit he ever saw.

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>>34413290
>>34413315
Better than the 1872 campaign hat everyone hated.

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>>34406454
It's not the most retarded uniforming decision around, but the cowboy hats really should be Camo to match with the uniforms.

>>34402256
Turks used to do that up until that time too

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>>34402256
>Chinese were using it till' 50's
The Chinese *are* still using mounted cavalry TODAY.

The PLA maintains two cavalry battalions (1st and 2nd Battalion of Cavalry) stationed in Xilin Gol in Inner Mongolia and another in Xinjiang.

Their primary mission is long range patrol, and are mostly involved in law enforcement and anti terror. Also rescuing nomads stuck in the steppes during harsh winters.

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>>34414076
Fun fact: they still get issued swords on a non-ceremonial basis: the Type 65. Since nobody updated the equipment list of the cavalry.

Though they probably leave it at base.

>>34414076
Mongolia has always been good horse country. Large distances. You certainly don't walk anywhere...

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>muh machine guns
Bayonet charges were already obsolete before machine guns became common. It's the Repeating rifle that was the real game changer.

>>34413428
I have never heard such a story. Is there an other account of this action ?

>>34399333
Pretty much when we decided a human should carry 150lbs of gear and started using vehicles to roll an entire unit to a specific area quickly rather than a relatively slow moving animal.

>>34404100
Unarmed protestors deserve whatever happens to them, as they're only chance at progressing their cause is an action that draws normal people's outrage against how the bottom feeders were handled.

But then again protestors are almost always the lowest denomination of intelligence that society artificially props up above the Darwin line.

>>34405560
Do what the finns did and use reindeer.

>>34406430
I'd take the horse because I can't eat the truck.

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>>34413317
Having our sappers grow bitchin' beards
Foreign Legion's kepi
Actually wearing the beret right unlike you burger jerkoffs

>>34413844
>the cowboy hats really should be Camo to match with the uniforms.

that's the tackiest shit I've ever heart. camo uniform with a single traditional non-camo element is what makes it work. like wearing black or maroon beret with camo uniform.

>>34399343
before WWI ended.
they went in with horses and left with tanks

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>>34415451

>FFL

Ironic you need to bring in foreigners in order to have some real traditions...

>>34406454

>I failed my spur ride

It's okay son, we can't all make it

>>34399467
Polands cavalry actually did extremely well in WW2. Read up on how the myth of "charging tanks with horses" came about and you'll be surprised.

>>34416277
>le foreigneurs argument
Listen, these guys signed up to give their blood for France while being treated like shit and used as cannon fodder. I'd say it makes them French enough.

Also, that's funny to hear coming from someone whose country was basically made from every damn ethnicity on this earth.

Marines kept sucking off their horses instead of stacking and unstacking sandbags.

>>34404317
It's confusing because some illustrations don't really do a perfect job of depicting it. This painting for example, the guy third from the right in the front row is simply holding it backwards. Everyone else is just the angle.

>>34399333
>Cavalry seemed to last pretty long into the age of gunpowder.

that was because guns were limited to one shot, or a handful and long ass reload times

you could ride around really fast and expect to not get hit by the local country fudds and their flintlock guns then shove a sword up their ass at incredible high speed

then cased ammo appeared and repeating guns and suddenly moving around out in the open was stupid

>>34414085
Probably not. Swords are a status symbol, especially in those parts of the world.

>>34414838
Sort of a failed logic though, because you're probably better off not having the horse in the first place then.

>>34400509
Holy shit wanna be cowboys are delusional.

>>34400427
Well, then it becomes part of tomorrow's lunch.

Can you do that to a truck which suffers a similar catastrophic failure?

>>34399333
Wasnt the Italian charge on the Soviets the last "professional" cavalry charge?

>>34401757
That's only because most modern horses are racehorse breeds, which were bred to be fast, and not much else.

>>34414085
That is a very nice looking sword. Pity that it's made of chink metal.

>>34418719
I'm pretty sure it's steel.

>>34418741
Pardon me then, chink alloy.
I'm still sorry for the poor Mongolians who have to use it and not just wear it.

Taking a wild guess, cost was a pretty big reason why.
You can't just take any horse and ride it into battle and expect it to be a good warhorse. You gotta find a horse, condition it to gunfire and handling under stress and lord knows what.
In addition to that, you can't just take any soldier and put him on this specially trained warhorse - It'd just be a big waste when he fucks up and loses his horse, gets thrown off, or any possible way (many!) an untrained soldier can fuck up.
Instead of spending money on this (plus feed for the horse, plus a saddlemaker, vet, horse medicines, spare horses), you just train everyone the same and teach some of them how to drive bigger cars that don't function too differently from the Civic they're used to driving from before.

>>34399394
>Hand blocking ejection port

>>34399712
>Even germany used calvalry (as a more casual way tho) in stalingrad, its still transport, and also carry artillery
In any capacity, Germany apparently used more horses in WW2 than in WW1.

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>>34399333
We just moved from horses to Jeeps and then HMMWVs.

>>34400058
>M1 Armor Crewman (19K)
>Cavalry Scout (19D)
Nope.

>>34414085
you wirr raugh
untir yuo get pierced by grorrious cavary sword after we conquer the whore worrd

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>>34419629

"Cav" Scouts are the Dragoons to the Armor's Heavy Cavalry

>>34399333
It stopped during WWI because Europe was too dumb to listen to military commanders from the U.S. civil war that said it died out there.
Whenever there is something dangerous you'll get more volunteers for certain death than you realize to the point you have to set customs and tactics around not letting them die.

>>34419932
Although to be fair they still used calvalry after the civil war for a tiny bit, teddy rosevelt had his rough riders which lead to getting rid of the current bolt action rifle they had for the springfield1903 but that was more of a privately funded militia/military force, than anything really official

>>34399757
>Combination of guns, trench warfare, and mechanization. They are still in use in some forms, such as mounted police, border patrol, ceremonial nature, and in special operations.

/thread was here, but that sure didn't stop anyone.

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>>34419932
>too dumb to listen to military commanders from the U.S. civil war that said it died out there
>meanwhile US used cavalry until the start of WWII

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>>34414085

>>34403958

Being a desert backwater with no resources and barely one city's population worth of sand chinks wrecked their ability to be a major power.

>>34417338
Not really. If logistics are an issue, then it's unlikely that rations would be arriving on time either. That being the case, I'd rather have something I can eat in a pinch.

Sure, after the horses are gone I'd be in a completely ineffective fighting unit but at least I'd be alive for a couple of days more.

>>34416835
>being treated like shit and used as cannon fodder makes someone french

?

>>34422015
Yup, Just look at most wars they where in except for WW2.

>>34414830

Except the Finns always used horses in far larger numbers than reindeer. Reindeer are physically not even remotely as strong as horses and are not as well suited for the purpose. Hence they cannot haul nearly as much equipment and the Finns only used them to tow small ledges at winter-time.

Keeping horses in working order is way more difficult than with motor vehicles.

>>34421973
But you could've just carried with you more rations instead of the extra horses and horse food...

>>34399333
Cavalry died in 1914. Mounted infantry continued to exist until ~1950's when trucks became so widespread that it simply didn't make sense to keep horses.

Remember that horses are massive maintenance drags.

>>34414076
>The Chinese *are* still using mounted cavalry TODAY.
>The PLA maintains two cavalry battalions (1st and 2nd Battalion of Cavalry) stationed in Xilin Gol in Inner Mongolia and another in Xinjiang.
>Their primary mission is long range patrol, and are mostly involved in law enforcement and anti terror. Also rescuing nomads stuck in the steppes during harsh winters.


Very practical

>>34422365
If I'd known beforehand, sure. But then again, if I'd known I'd be starving I'd rather be trying to escape the draft in the first place.

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>>34424071

>>34415451
you do realize burgers also serve in the legion