Do we have any HEMA practitioners lurking /k/? If not, why

Because I can shoot you instead
>>>/asp/

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>>34385021
>Do we have any HEMA practitioners lurking /k/?

I [i]fence[/i]. "HEMA" is for pretentious middle aged dudes. I also do kendo when I get the chance.

>>34385021
the rapier is better

>>34385062
I tend to agree with you anon.
I think its very sad that HEMA has such an unyielding attachment to the historic sources. And no, Im not being unironic. I am looking forward to the day when the various manuals get condensed into one uniform manual, dedicated to winning tournaments

>>34385046
please dont make me go back there
Fuck the wrestlefags

>>34385084
>I think its very sad that HEMA has such an unyielding attachment to the historic sources.

Then they wouldn't be historical.

You can take the manuals and add in new, proven combat sport training methodologies but that then takes it out of the realm of historical. Which is fine. But that's just "modern" fighting with whatever given weapon (longsword, dagger, arming sword and buckler etc.).

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>>34385021
>HEMA practitioners lurking /k/
Yes.

>If not, why are you not practicing the Art of Longsword?
Because I like Bolognese sword and buckler more. I'm not a fan of two handed swords.

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>>34385099
You know, Ive had this same argument with many HEMA practitioners and it always end up here.
>that then takes it out of the realm of historical

I dont really find this argument compelling, as the year a sword is used in will not necessarily change the fundamental way that sword was used.

We dont see many historical techniques preformed in tournaments because they simply do not work in a martial/sporting context. And I would argue you would see the same thing 500 years ago, given both combatants where of a high skill level.

>>34385120
Very interesting, do you do any sabre work?
Any polish sabre?

>>34385021
2 handed swords are a meme though. They perform hardly any better than one handed swords without having the extra hand to carry a shield or a pistol.

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>>34385021
>If not, why are you not practicing the Art of Longsword?
Because I'm already learning kenjutsu and I don't want two systems for a two-handed sword to fuck each other up in my head (nice Jodan there Meyer btw).

Dall'Agocchie and Bolognese fencing in general is totally dope though.

>>34385161
>European
>Learning asian fighting styles

>>34385021
Yes.

I prefer military sabres.

>>34385149
>I dont really find this argument compelling, as the year a sword is used in will not necessarily change the fundamental way that sword was used.
Context absolutely changes the way a sword is used though. Since no one is susceptible of using a sword in self-defense in our days, the perception we have of fencing and the feeling that we build around it are already completely different from the old days of the actual swordmasters. So no, it would be changed and quite strongly, the very fact that we have better protections already change the fencing that is done. It's not a question saying which is better or worse, just acknowledging that it's different.
Some people are interested in learning historical styles, not just general fencing and for those, the study of historical sources will always be important, doesn't mean it's the be all end all of fencing, just that not everything as to be dissolved into a "modern fencing" thing. Winning Tournaments isn't the end goal for many practitioners, it doesn't make tournaments useless.

And by the way, historical techniques are performed regularly at high level and this has been discussed and adressed since years. They do work in sporting context, you're posting a picture of Meyer, the king of sporting longsword ffs! If they weren't working in martial context, why are we looking at sources in the first place, let's just pick swords and fight as we care.

It's funny that you then ask about polish sabre, one of the most popular historical discipline who has no first hand sources...

I would, but I live in Straya where everything is way the fuck too far apart unless you're living in shitney or smellbourne

>>34385182
Asian martials arts, still passed down from master or master, knows exactly what they are doing

European martial arts, dig up scrolls with shitting drawings on them and bunch of nerd try to make up whatever they think is right based on them, neckbeards pay them money to learn them

>>34385198
AHAHAHAH get a load of this weeb.
Majority of Asian martial arts are bullshit.

Keep buying into oriental hype like a typical westerner. I bet you also believe that yoga is ancient.

>>34385182
Damn you're right, why the hell would I be interested in different culture...!?
It probably means I can't be interested in european history at the same time...
Btw, am I even european?

>>34385198
Some 3rd generation Asian immigrant whose food business did not work out convinces anon that he was taught by ancient masters.

But in reality he just googled asian martial arts and tries to sound like a professional using some strange words

>>34385218
Nothing wrong with being interested in other cultures it's just that white weebs talk about superiority of asian martial arts and you sound just like one.

>>34385218
Depending on which end of the horseshoe you're on, it would either be cultural appropriation or betraying your heritage

>>34385225
Well I went the simple route, I started young and kept practicing. I didn't went for the "superior art", just the available one, like most people, that's about it.
I couldn't care less of which is "superior" between the katana or the longsword, I don't plan on using either of them in a serious situation anyway. The main questions were: is it fun? and is it interesting historically and technically? And since it was yes for both, I rolled with kenjutsu and affiliated stuff. Doesn't mean I don't read european treatises and appreciate HEMA stuff, cause I do.

>>34385228
Ah ah, that's a nice one, got told both btw which is particularly ridiculous when talking about japanese martial arts since they have a history of taking students of my country since very long and some of my historical countrymen also joined on their own starting in the Meiji era, so both sides of the horseshoe would be stupid af, not unusual.

>>34385191
>Since no one is susceptible of using a sword in self-defense in our days
Someone pls defend yourself against a jigaboo mugger with a sword one day, pls. I want to see a resurgence in gentlemen having a nice blade hanging at their side in everyday life.

pls

>>34385276
Are you not the guy who said that oriental martial arts are passed down by masters and HEMA is nothing but scrolls?

That part pissed me off.

>>34385314
That's still happening with knives mind you, just like in the old times. I have a training daisho though so who knows, if my house is ever broken into, the first thing I'd do is probably grab that "blunt" kodachi and start stabbing people with it, cause the tip is absolutely functional.

>>34385322
nope not me, I'm the second Bolognese admirer on this thread.

>>34385021
>Do we have any HEMA practitioners lurking /k/?
Yes, long enoug to know that whenever I see this pic >>34385062 some wannabe asshole is gonna post a load of dumb shit

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>>34385021
QUESTION
how do cutting blades and attacks do against plate armor and chainmail?

>>34385548
they don't.

>>34385021
because grosse messer and buckler and hammer is better

>>34385563
Then how the hell did the saracens fight the crusaders? allah's power?

>>34385578
you have to go back to >>>/v/

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>>34385580
>he thinks you fence against armor

>>34385580
Saracens largely had straight swords during the crusades, very similar to the crusaders ones actually. Also arrows. Turks were for a good part a horse-archer people.

Curved swords like the one you've posted are a late medieval thing for the middle-east people. Well they probably were used earlier but they took on the later days of the middle ages.

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>>34385580
By not trying to hit a heavy armored knight with a light (800g) single handed blade on the spot where they had absolutely no hope of doing any damage.
>arrow barrages against unarmored men and horses
>heavy lancers
>crossbows
>maces and axes for tin cans
>sieges & siege engines
and so on

>>34385611
Goddamn that's aesthetic

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>>34385614

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I used to do english saber when i had a group within driving distance of me. Now i just do the wrist warmups and some of the cuts occasionally.

>>34385211
that is correct
most things ending in "do" are bullshit
everything ending "jutsu" was practised before the meiji restauration, meaning it was not a sport but meant to do serious harm or kill your oponent

kendo is a sport
kenjutsu is a martial art

if you want to practise hand to hand combat you may want to look into ju justu or bujinkan budo taijutsu which is basically japanese krav maga in the sense that everything is allowed to win and you aren't stuck in any dogma

that is at least my opinion

>>34385084
nonhistorical sword fighting for sake of winning tournaments is called fencing. I'm a foil fencer, saber and epee are interesting but i prefer the complexity of foil.

>>34385084
That would be quite terrible. The actually interesting bit for me is the historical reconstruction. From what I've seen that's what attracts most of the community. How people used to do things, rather than a modern blend made for tournament. If that's what interests you, more power to you, but I think losing the sources would lose a lot of what makes medieval martial arts so damn interesting.

>>34385721
>nonhistorical sword fighting for sake of winning tournaments is called fencing
Fencing is an old germanic word and means fighting with arms.
What you do is called modern sports fencing or oly(mpic) fencing and it looks something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHnL5KD9RYE

>>34385021
>why are you not practicing the Art of Longsword?
Mostly because I practicing the art of the messer, and halberds a little too

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>>34385716
>most things ending in "do" are bullshit
>everything ending "jutsu" was practised before the meiji restauration, meaning it was not a sport but meant to do serious harm or kill your oponent

That's the modern, western distinction. The Japanese don't give a fuck, kendo could be any fencing, or it could be the modern sport specifically. Context decides.

The old stuff usually comes sorted by school, not by weapon. Many practice multiple weapons.

Nothing stops a modern bullshido scammer from calling his stuff Aho jutsu, or calling the school Baka Gaijin Ryu. So many do.

Bujinkan is ninja nonsense.

>>34385149
Not interested in Polish sabre. Looks cool, but it's not my thing. I just really like sword and buckler or sword and shield. I tried longsword several times, but it's just not my thing. I find it boring.

>>34385149
>dont really find this argument compelling

It doesn't matter if you find it compelling or not, it is a factual statement. Once you move away from the historical manuals it is no longer historical and attempting to represent it as such is lying.

I'm not trying to convince you to stick with only the historical material because I couldn't give less of a fuck what you personally do. So there is no argument here to compel you. It is a statement of fact that you can either deal with or not deal with, but that doesn't change it.

>>34385198
>Asian martials arts,

Ok.

>still passed down from master or master,

Maybe. Are you 100% sure about the lineage of your "master"? Do they have a documented lineage? Is it actually true?

Because there are a lot of Boojers out there who trusted Hatsumi's claimed lineage and then it turned out once everyone was able to access the internet his claim fell apart because the one guy with actual historical lineage to the Iga who runs the Iga Ryu museum has no fucking clue who Hatsumi was and Hatsumi was just making everything up.

>knows exactly what they are doing

Please see above.

>>34385716
>bujinkan budo taijutsu which is basically japanese krav maga in the sense that everything is allowed to win and you aren't stuck in any dogma


That literally could not be more wrong.

Also Bujinkan is completely made up with no historical connection to any koryu. Hatsumi is a fraud. Even Stephan fucking Hayes thinks Hatsumi is a fraud, that should tell you something.

>>34385195
Have you considered gathering other interested people in your area and making your own study group? You could find some manuals or treatises to study together then spar.

>>34385084
>dedicated to winning tournaments
Worst kind of faggot
Most HEMA sources are tailored towards fighting for you life, not scoring a fucking double with a feder.

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>>34385021
Fioreist here
Dabble in Vadi and Marozzo though, end spar with some Ringeck blokes.

>>34385084
Let me guess. You're one of those people who want to sell out HEMA to the Jews so that it can be regularly broadcasted on ESPN. No thanks.

>>34385643
God fucking damn...

>>34385580
Someone else can confirm this, but I don't think full plate armor was in use until the mid 14th century which is about 100-150 years after the Holy Land crusades. Also, you don't use swords to cut armor.

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>>34387023

>>34387090
yep, no plate armour around that time. And to answer the original question: stabbing and excessive use of violence can always win battles

>>34385021
Yes. Sword and shield and polearm though.

>>34385211
This. A lot of it even stems from stage fighting

>>34385580
1. They were using straight swords during the first 3 crusades
2. Most killing was done with spears and arrows

>>34385580
Not to mention, if you actually break it down battle to battle, siege to siege, the Crusaders usually won. Muh Hattin gives off a misleading image of the crusades.

I HEMA a little, I prefer English saber though. Also did a bit of kendo and tameshigiri back when I was going through a weeb phase.

Anybody know where I might find a Hutton saber? I'm aware of the Hanwei ones but they're too short and too expensive for what seems to be rather hit or miss quality.

>>34387308
The fucking work that goes into the ornate designs is mind boggling.

>>34385021
>HEMA

Not a weapon. Shit for larpers to hit each other with in safety. Please go.

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>>34385191
>>34386279
>>34386965
>>34385741
>>34387003

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>all these beginner HEMAutists shitting on anything not European and not appreciating everything in context

>>34385021
>Practice swordplay?
Yes
>HEMA?
>ARMA?
Absolutely not.
>2017
>Not using glorious claymore for open engagements
I love the damned thing too much, I love pommel striking, when I can, with it too much to be honest.

>>34390186
HEMA is weapon arts you fucking mong
Yeah let's just kill each other so we never get good since we fucking died after two fights

Not really a fan of longsword, I get why people like it, just not my thing. I practice English naval cutlass, a couple different systems of dagger fighting, and bayonet. Really want to get into some sort of halberd/poleaxe fighting, but need to both find a manual covering it's use, and find someone interested to practice with.

>>34385062
Never seen fencing with anything other than a rapier. Neat.

>>34390269

There's a sport side to it of course, because there are tournaments that use rules to approximate a "fair" fight.

Though there are historical rule sets.

>>34390186
>Not a weapon.

I don't think you know what a weapon is.

>>34390316
>>all these beginner HEMAutists shitting on anything not European and not appreciating everything in context

Please point out what is incorrect about this:
>>34386335

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>>34385021
>The Katana is heavy for its Length
Yeah it's almost like it's a heavy saber or something. I swear that sword brings out the autist in everyone.

>>34390316
Thank you for being one of the only other people to understand this. There used to be a massive katana culture, but the recent HEMAsurge has made a counter-culture just as embarrassing. You see countless people like OP who watch a few youtubers and suddenly have to inject random anti-katana comments to "weeb HEMA haters" who aren't even there. When people actually mature and do sword stuff for a while, they stop being such autistic elitists. Enjoy swords and swordsmanship from all over the world. When I started I was like these spergs, and swore I'd never use a katana. Now I do HEMA longsword and kenjutsu sparring.

>>34385062
>i fence
>proceeds to call others pretentious

Kek.

>>34385021
im definitely not the medieval larper type but i stumpled onto that last video with the sabre sparring just a few days ago after it autoplayed after a hatchet sharpening video and thought it was badass as fuck

>>34391882
>Now I do HEMA longsword and kenjutsu sparring.

You also believe that Bujinkan is historical apparently, assuming you're the same anon in here talking about Kenjutsu earlier. And if that's true I'm not sure your judgement about anything should be trusted.

>>34385073
>the rapier is better
>Dude LMAO use a dueling sword for dueling.

You wished the world worked like that.

Don't be a fool, remember that a rapier will get you killed on the street. Only trust a good backsword.

>>34391882
>Now I do HEMA longsword and kenjutsu sparring
I bet you're garbage at both. No way are you going to best anyone who devotes their time to a single form.

>>34390668
Sounds to me like you're not currently attending a HEMA club or study-group.

>>34390995
>I don't think you know what a weapon is.

I think you are mistaking the pseudo sporting larpy blunt implements used in HEMA with weapons.

>>34393346
The group I study with does some kind of longsword, I believe it was a German treatise (never looked into it), multiple styles of saber and English cutlass (so basically saber), and dagger from meyer and morrozzo. I practice bayonet and another system of dagger fighting (don't know what it is called) with a couple army types I met practicing saber.

>>34385084
>I am looking forward to the day when the various manuals get condensed into one uniform manual, dedicated to winning tournaments


So....

You want to go to MMA Swordfighting?

Call it... THE ART OF CUTTING

TAOC

Dooooo ittttt.....

>>34393595
IDK if this is meant sarcastically or not, but yes, I want the MMA of swordfighting

HEMA practitioners who get butthurt over their sources are basically LARPers and SCA guys in my book. Fuck the history, saying thee and thou, and fuck your puffy pants. I just want to fight

>>34393403
>I think you are mistaking the pseudo sporting larpy blunt implements used in HEMA with weapons.

If you aren't training only with live targets who shoot back then you shouldn't be talking about anything to do with guns on /k/ because you're playing with loud pop guns, not real weapons.

>HEMA Practitioners
Sort of. I'm teaching myself how to properly use a longsword

>>34393668
>HEMA practitioners who get butthurt over their sources are basically LARPers and SCA guys in my book

This is retarded.

>I want the MMA of swordfighting

Awesome, but it wouldn't necessarily be historical. Before you get your panties in a twist there is nothing inherently wrong with that and I'm not arguing that there is. But it's a factual statement. If you just want to swing swords at people all day and you don't want to have any historical basis for it then you aren't practicing HEMA. You're playing around with swords, and maybe learning how to fight depending on the level of expertise of the people you are training under and with.

And honestly I don't really understand why you think there is a dichotomy between historically based practice and modern fighting application. You're argument is akin to someone who wants to learn how to box but is upset that most people base their training methodologies on what has proven to historically work in the context of boxing, and you just want to throw the gloves on and dick around with your friends in the backyard.

Which is ironic considering you want "the MMA of swordfighting".

>>34393668
You sound like the type of guy who does the WORST out of a class for any given subject.

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>>34392348
George please...

>>34390186
>>34393403
>>34393968
You have to be 18 to post here.

>>34385062
>I [i]fence[/i].
hey me too.

>>34385182
>>>/pol/

>>34385716
>recommending bunjinkan as an example of le ancient nippon samurai style
>literally the most well known fradulent lineage in Asian martial arts

Holy shit lol

seeing the shitfest a /k/ hema thread is, I am kinda grateful for the mandrama queens on /asp/ at least they keep the riffraff away.

Sportsfencers seem to get extremely butthurt by HEMA. Understandable, in a couple years they run out of youths because everybody rather joins HEMA than antenna tag.

>>34392885
some people enojoy fencing for fencing's sake and don't do it to be the best at it

>>34395839
kek

>>34395823
i don't know
maybe you are right about the lineage

but that doesn't mean that the martial art has to be bullshit since someone doesn't have to be the son of a master to become a master

what martial art do you think is effective and good for self defence?

>>34396044
Combat sports that actively participate in competition are the best shit. They force you to figure out what you can and can't do realistically and get you used to actually fighting against someone who is trying to win, not just go along with the moves.

Boxing/kickboxing/mauy thai/sanda + bjj/judo/wrestling/sambo

>>34396146
i think the problem with sparring in boxing for example are the gloves
can't grab someone and your punch is weakened

all of these sports have restrictions

no strikes to the neck
no poking out the eyes
no kicks in the groing
no breaking arms
etc.

i don't see how judo is recommended but bujinkan is not, even if the lineage is bullshit

however i agree the sparring in a real environment with an active oponent is very usefull and something that most of japanese martial arts lack

they should implemend that you do your forms in full speed (except leathal strikes of course) if you want to a higher belt

>>34395410
>You have to be 18 to post here.

Then why are you here?

>>34396044
>but that doesn't mean that the martial art has to be bullshit since someone doesn't have to be the son of a master to become a master

Except this is the self imposed marker of quality among Asian martial arts. And sometimes lineage actually does matter, even in more combat sport oriented training.

>>34396218
>no strikes to the neck
>no poking out the eyes
>no kicks in the groing
>no breaking arms

I'm assuming in your first point you mean the throat, not the neck. If you can punch someone in the chin you can punch them in the neck.

Eye gouges aren't guaranteed fight enders they are violence escalators. If you try to gouge someone's eyes and you aren't in a dominant position you're probably waking up in the hospital. Same thing for biting. Someone on /r/ martial arts put together a well sourced write up showing multiple videos of people attempting "dirty fighting" and getting their shit pushed in for their trouble.

At one point you could kick to the groin in UFC. But it's not necessarily a fight ender and really serves no purpose. But if you can kick the inside of the leg you can kick the groin.

If you can do an arm bar you can "break" an arm.

>i don't see how judo is recommended but bujinkan is not, even if the lineage is bullshit

Because Judo has produced people who can fight and has an openly demonstrated test of skills in the form of competition. Lineage is more than just proving that you are part of the Igaryu tradition (which is bullshit, there's only one "real" lineage and it's to a museum, not Hatsumi) it's being tied to a lineage of people who have proven they can fight. That's why getting your BJJ black belt under a Gracie means a hell of a lot more than getting whatever the Wing Chun equivalent is under Alan Orr.

>they should implemend that you do your forms in full speed

Why? Kata is completely useless as a training tool. Effective training methodology has evolved beyond it.

>>34396218
You cant realistically practice that shit unless your maiming your sparring partners on a regular basis. I can practice my 1-2 and sweeping hip throw all god damn day.

Spoiler alert by the way, none of that shit is half as effective as you think it is and theres no way in hell youre going to pull it off against someone who isnt standing still for you, especially when youve never sparred in your life

>>34395839
I actually switched from epee to longsword. Noticing a huge leap in enjoyment from the change.

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>>34385021
halberds rule, swords drool

>>34385046
>/k/-only guns

>>34385721
>Right of way foil fag
Lmao @ ur life

Anyone down at History Alive this weekend in Suffolk, UK? Mostly re-enactment but I'm part of a HEMA display in medieval kit.

>>34388931
They had nothing but time.

>>34392885
Musashi and Lichtenauer say you're a retard. Are you aware of the concept of formless form?

>>34393994
HEMA is different because if it works then why have the need to go backwards and justify it by finding the closest picture that fits it in the often unannotated manuals? If it works it works, there's no need to try and bolster your legitiamacy.

>>34399261
Cool bro, got any videos of you sparring with halberds in earnest?

>>34399261
>IMPLYING I'm not using both as per their intended purposes.
>Primary and side arm

>>34399998
That's something a butthurt peon would say.

>>34385021
Because I'm a poorfag with no local clubs.

>>34400025
>HEMA is different

Wrong.

>because if it works then why have the need to go backwards and justify it by finding the closest picture that fits it in the often unannotated manuals?

There is no need to do so, but then you can't claim what you're doing is historical. If you don't care that it isn't necessarily historical and you're not interested in the historical that's fine. But then you're not training HEMA. You're swinging a sword around and hoping to learn by trial and error.

Which is why the analogy of the backyard boxing is accurate.

Instead of going to a boxing gym where they train based on methodologies that have worked and still work based on the last century of boxing, you want to play around in the back yard with your friends. And by your seemingly desperate need to justify it you want to play around in the back yard but claim that you're doing the same thing as Mayweather.

>>34402673
>methodologies that have worked and still work
You guys look at pictures of ancient books and desperately try to construct something out of it. You have no idea if what you're doing is even correct.

>>34403954
we have pretty good ideas about it.
They may not be correct all the time but that's true for a fuckton of things that are older than 300 years and we want to reconstruct.

>>34399998
Implying Musashi didn't taught you dozens of forms before you could come up with formless form.
You don't break the mold if you can't make it in the first place. Musashi was himself taught in the traditionnal manner so Shuhari was nothing unknwon to him. You can't just start with "formless form".

>>34402673
>Instead of going to a boxing gym where they train based on methodologies that have worked and still work based on the last century of boxing

Are you retarded? Go look at boxing in the 1920s and compare it to now. Boxing is a living and evolving art.

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>>34388931
craftsmanship was better in ye olden days.

>>34405098
I've always wondered why the finger rings don't go BELOW the guard. Why not a guard that is raised somewhat higher and closer to the center of the whole design than usual with the rings below so that you can still put an index finger through them? Is it just a weight balance issue? Putting the guard higher up would also help to prevent slicing cuts to the sides of the fingers.

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>>34405234
thumb rings for extra oompf blows are often found on cutting swords below the cross guard. For stabbycentric weapons, rings above the ricasso are preferred for better weapons and point control.

>>34385084
Kindly kys.

Just started going to a local hema club a few weeks ago, I'm terrible.

>>34404729
The change happened with headgear, and boxing gloves. Modern boxing teaches people to fight without teaching them to fear being hit as much as people used to.

>>34405524
Seems like it would go triple for hema considering a single hit could be fatal.

>>34405524
Right, that's why head injuries have increased and hradmovement has become more dynamic.

Fuck off, Tyson would have knocked the shit out of sullivan

>>34405592
This is why HEMA clubs usually spar to a first hit, and count any afterblow in the next second or two against the one who struck first. The emphasis is not on killing your opponent, but on escaping harm during the fight. It doesn't matter if you hit first, if you do nothing to prevent your opponent hitting you back.

>>34405597
More head movement has been a response to the problem of all these head injuries. Prior to the gloves, people kept their guards much further from their body to prevent being struck in the head at all.
>Tyson would have knocked the shit out of sullivan
Under modern rules? Probably. Under the rules Sullivan learned to fight under? I highly doubt it.

>>34385149
HEMA doesn't exist to modernize sword combat, it exists to preserve historical techniques. Modernizing would be like going to a civil war re-enactment where the soldiers all cook hamburger helper on trioxane stoves. modernizing defeats the purpose.

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>>34385149
>We dont see many historical techniques preformed in tournaments because they simply do not work in a martial/sporting context
You have to ask yourself whether or not that's because the techniques don't work, or if they just don't work in tournaments.

While I think the argument that "the sport aspect of combat sports divorces it too much from reality" is kinda bullshit when it comes to stuff like MMA, I think it holds more water when applied to HEMA.

Most HEMA tournaments are based around unarmored fighting. The argument can be made that all the safety equipment we wear has influenced our fighting. Consider how many people will kamikaze only to get double hit. I doubt we'd see that much of it back in the day when they'd just rip off their shirts and go at each other with sharps.

Look at HMB. The guys are wearing heavy armor, but don't use thrusts or any actual anti-armor techniques. It's not that those techniques don't work; they just don't want to fuck anybody up for life.

tl;dr: just because it doesn't work in tournaments doesn't mean it doesn't work period

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>>34393668
>I want the MMA of swordfighting
That's how you get shit like UWM.

>>34405938
Thing is though; there really isn't that many ways to use a cutty stabby object so studying historical treatises is about the same as studying every possible way you could want to swing a sword. The rest will be some occasional improvisations during practical use and competitive tournaments.

>>34406251
The same could be said of grappling techniques. In both cases there are some basics that are easy to pick up, but there are other things that take explaining, and most won't pick up on their own immediately.

>>34385021
If you are really into hema check out polish sabre and stop being the weeaboos of the west.

>>34387090
Yup during the crusades the best that was metallurgically possible was a coat of plates i.e. medieval plate carriers but they would only shield the torso.

>>34385021
>inferior steel
B-b-but muh 6 gorrillion times folded

>>34403954

Like I said, you do you homie. You are welcome to ignore historical sources if you want. But then you're not training HEMA and can't claim that you are.

I don't know why this statement of fact is getting you so riled up.

>>34404729
>Boxing is a living and evolving art.

Where did I say it was static?

>>34385021
T. Matt Easton

>>34385149
>We dont see many historical techniques preformed in tournaments

I've seen plenty of people use the basic and master cuts from Meyer.

Do you mean situational things like half swording, unscrewing and throwing the pommel, or do you mean outright using the stucke as depicted in the manual?

Because to that last point you also don't see Kyokushin Karate guys dropping into kata in the middle of a knockdown tournament.

>>34406446
>>34406446
Polish sabre people are exactly the weeaboos of the west, even polish people think that way! Most of the polish sabre is just a reinvention of a reinvention btw.

>>34406251
The difference is that historical sources were written by people who had the chance to use their techniques in actual serious fights, they weren't as divorced for the realities of swordfighting as we are now, so their insight is much more valuable that what we can think of in our days. That is only really true for swordfighting and the likes though, stuff like unarmed or knife fighting is still as real as it is now as it was then because there is still occurence of it regularly. Swordfighting... not so much anymore.

>>34406542
Matt Easton would be promoting military sabre, not longsword.

>>34406729
He has been doing longsword for longer than he is been doing sabre though.

>>34406790
Doesn't really show, hbe is way better at sabre.