Are we at the end of the era where MBTs are practical? The advancements

>>34356419
And how else are you going to get a 120mm+ gun into direct firing range? Wheeled vehicles shit themselves when they attempt to fire weapons of that caliber, and AFVs are vulnerable to molotovs, mines, even fucking barbed wire is enough to disable a Bradley or BMP. Aircraft can't hold territory and aren't numerous to use below the strategic level in a conventional war: this isn't WWII where there were more aircraft in operation than tanks and every single Battalion could expect to be backed by a squadron.

Drones have never fought a modern MBT before: they have faced T-72s without computerized firing systems. The Armata would shoot a Predator out of the sky. With advances in automation, tanks will get better at fighting aircraft as their guns become more accurate, not worse. Missiles already solved by APS like trophy.

>>34356498
>in a conventional war
When are we ever going to fight a conventional war though?

The future of combat is drones, soon to be controlled by AI. Just as well considering the bottom of the barrel recruitment efforts the govenment has had to adopt to make numbers.

>>34356498
>The Armata would shoot a Predator out of the sky.
That would require that there actually be a functional model.

>>34356540
>The advancements in drone and miss technology

When we face opponents who possess the latest in either of these. Also the speed of a modern MBT is comparable to APCs and AFVs.

>>34356498
>The Armata would shoot a Predator out of the sky.

Maybe if it's at a 45 degree angle from the ground and shooting at it from a distance of 50 meters.

>>34356419
As the modern technology adapts the battlefield, the MBT will adapt with it.

>>34356594
>When we face opponents who possess these

So when the united states finally has civil war part 2 electric boogaloo

>>34356602
it has an AA shell that can lock targets

>>34356619
Pretty much, or we go into war with our allies NATO for whatever reason.

The only other exception is proxy wars with Russia.

>>34356637
Sauce? I'm only getting AA guns and anit air missiles.

>>34356419
>Are we at the end of the era where MBTs are practical?

no

No. The shitheap in OP-post belongs in the scrapyard though. I like how americans call obsolete everything they're notoriously bad at.

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I reckon war's going in the direction of the smaller the better.

>>34356419
I wouldn't mind seeing nuclear powered tank/cruise missile platform with 1.2 meter thick armor made up of tungsten or depleted uranium plus another meter for ceramic composites.

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>>34356574
And drones will most certainly make MBTs obsolete.

>>34356498
>>34356540
>>34356594
>>34356619
>>34356641
i seriously hope that you're all just out of touch americans and that none of you are involved with the american military, because you are heading straight into a major war with the chinese and everyone can see it.

>>34356865
This. They're like a cancer, and going to war with them in the future is a serious risk, especially considering how aggressive they're starting to get with their neighbors.

>>34356865
>thinking dumb gooks with one aircraft carrier that they basically got from a scrapyard in the Ukraine can ever to take on the us military.

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>>34356807
>using passive armor like some stone-age primitive
>not using tactical nuke ERA all over your tank
Russia stronk.

>>34356865
>a conventional war between two nuclear nations
?

>>34356889
they're taking out american allies in asia and oceania. just a week or two ago it came out that most australian political parties are receiving, and have been receiving, "donations" from the chinese government. they are targeting korea (if you americans think the koreans are on your side you are sadly mistaken), and they're trying to corrupt japan.

they are attempting to corrupt american allies so that they can pull their 5,000 year history bullshit without major opposition. if it works america is going to get kicked out of the pacific without a war, if it doesn't you are probably going to see WW3.

>>34356898
this attitude is exactly why you are at risk.

>>34356908
yes, that is absolutely possible. china can't reliably hit the american mainland at the moment, and america is trying to ensure they don't gain that capability. you'll probably see exchanges in the pacific.

Im so fucking tired of "the tank is dead" maymay

>drone technology
drones are just slow planes. they're worthless as CAS vehicles in a moderately hot airspace. Why does every ignorant idiot have a boner for drones
>missile technology
ATGMs have been capable of ass pounding tanks forever. If anything missiles are less effective than they have ever been, on account of active-protection-systems, reactive armour, and slats finally maturing as a technology
>reliance on more nimble armour
like what? What armour is fucking nimble? Super modern wheeled APCs like the Bumerang and Boxer are not nimble at all. They're heavy beasts, and the super powerful engines tanks are powered with generally make them as quick as anything.

OP is just a dumbass trying to sound smart by bandwagoning on dumbass claims like "drones are the future" and "wars are ballistic missile exchanges now"

>>34356929
>china can't reliably hit the american mainland at the moment
They sure as shit can hit SK and Japan, though. They'll be used as hostages.

>>34356939
>drones are just slow planes
That's only because they didn't make a drone fighter, or a drone high-speed bomber. Don't mistake examples of the technology in the field right now for the limits of that same technology.

>>34356954
and america can flatten every major chinese city. tactical usage will happen.

>>34356939
>Why does every ignorant idiot have a boner for drones
america hasn't been up against a proper opponent since the end of the cold war, so everyone is getting used to the idea of war just being COIN operation after COIN operation. once 2-3 aircraft carriers are taken out in the pacific and china is coming for south korea, america will remember why it threw 1,000,000+ people into the abyss during WW2.

>>34356865
>The Chinese

Oh no the Chinese are going to invade us with their- oh right, the Chinese have a shitty navy and airforce and.almost no force projection and their economy is tied to ours

At this point a war with Russia is.more likely

>>34356856
AI drones will make war obsolete, whoever develops them first and utilizes them to their full potential wins forever.

>>34356929
>if you americans think the koreans are on your side you are sadly mistaken)
>China allying with Japan

Hahaha oh wow you are the dumbest motherfucker in existence aren't you this is amazing

>>34356988
>the Chinese have a shitty navy and airforce and.almost no force projection
get off your national high horse, they're clearly attempting to improve their military capability. you americans have maybe a decade at this point to get your shit together before a chinese-american war is a possibility.

>>34357000
the koreans fucking hate you, and japan doesn't have to separate from you willingly.

You are going to war with Germany.

You just don't know it yet. After they make a pact with Russia and China. Yes. Again.

>any nation with an import-based economy declaring war on a major trading partner
no. they'll try underhanded tricks or outright lie to get into a better position, but a war would basically kill both our and their way of life.

>>34357016
>advantage over manned ones?

Size. Weight, speed, cost, expendability. Automation.

>>34357022
>>34357022
>their way of life.


Germany is already killing your way of life.

>>34357007
>the koreans fucking hate you,
South Korea sucks our nuts every ding ding day, we're the only thing that stands between them and Nork Annihilation. The Chinese and Japanese HAATTEE each other with a passion.

You're one of those faggots salty we got out of the TPP aren't you

Sorry we didn't give your corporations extraterritoriality and the right to make their own laws you Flip Faggot

>>34357045
>South Korea sucks our nuts every ding ding day, we're the only thing that stands between them and Nork Annihilation.
>american foreign policy


>The Chinese and Japanese HAATTEE each other with a passion.
as i said before, they don't need to get along willingly. it's amazing that despite all of your meddling in the middle east, you still don't realize that other countries only play along with your shit because you're stronger than them.

>You're one of those faggots salty we got out of the TPP aren't you
no?

>you Flip Faggot
it's not my fault your sailors can't see 50,000 ton freighters.

>>34356987
You truly are the best goy

>>34357068
>you still don't realize that other countries only play along with your shit because you're stronger than them

As with every other nation in history. And seeing as this state of affairs is unlikely to end any time soon, people will continue to play along, and we will continue to develop the best weapons in the world to ensure things remain nice, peaceful, and civil

We're all in this together. America needs allies and friends. But if you fuck with is so help us god we will make you miserable one way or another. Welcome to geopolitics

>>34357026
>Size
in what world? Fighter jets are BIG, bombers are BIGGER. Why? Because they need to carry a fuckload of a fuel, and munitions. Tiny drones already exist, and they're used as nothing more than cameras.
>Weight
?????? How does putting a person in a plane affect the weight at all ??????? Fighters weigh like 20 tons, a pilot weighs ~0.08 tons.
>Speed
also no clue what tree you're barking up here? What engine technology exists that is going to let bombers or fighters actually travel at speeds so fast that a human pilot could not practically man it?
>Cost
what? How does cost go down? You still have to have a plane with all the same capabilities. Does taking the man out of the F-35 suddenly makes it engines, RADAR suite, or whatever makes it cost 100 mill cheaper?
>expend-ability
Modern fighters cost about 100 million a pop. When a fighter goes down, the pilot isn't even lost most of the damn time. Even when they do, the cost to the overall war machine is 99% on the price of the plane. Drones are baaarely more expendable
>Automation
Again, what technology are you talking about here? The AI we are currently working with is not up to the task of being a full automated fighter jet.

This thread is about the tank being useless today. Not in 30 years when new tech shows up but now. Drones are not special. You are not smart for thinking they make manned planes obsolete. In fact you are dumb for it.

also to add to how retarded drone-shills are, here are the disadvantages of a fighter-drone.

1. If your enemy is a step ahead of you in decryption/encryption technology they could literally make your plane fall out of the sky or even take control of it without having to fire a single shot
2. There is significant input lag associated with encrypting, having the signal travel from the base to the aircraft, and then decrypting. It's not super long, but why have this disadvantage for nothing?
3. If the enemy employs jamming successfully, again, your plane becomes completely useless as you can not communicate with it

>>34357093
You aren't factoring in controls and safety equipment which takes up about 1/4th of the planes mass as well as the structural weakness of the canopy

>>34357124
Good thing no such enemies exist

>>34357156
>rob bank
>good thing there's nobody who has more guns than us!

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>>34356775
>the smaller the better.
have you seen the newer wheeled vehicles on the market?

>>34357167
Shall we start future proofing our arsenal to fight the exoplanet aliens too?

>>34356419
Drone tanks are the solution.

>the final solution.

>>34357207
if you view the fucking russians and iranians as exoplanet aliens, yes.

>>34357212
>Russia and Iran
>Sophisticated

Pftahahahhaha

>>34357010
>>34357037
>Ze germans boogeyman
Go back to WWII grandpa

>>34357249
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident

>>34357178
Holy shit, those two on the left dwarf an M1 Abrams

>>34357254
>The US confirms it was there's
>Nothing else
>We totes hacked it and made it land bro

Uhuh.

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>>34356865
Yes, the Chinese will flank us with their cavalry forces and cut off our supply lines!

>>34357479
more like they will corrupt your allies from within and will start blobbing when you can't do anything about it.

>>34356929
Japan will, never, ever, EVER view China as an ally and/or equal, neither will Vietnam and El Presidente of the Philippines shot down any attempts the Chinese would ally with his rustbucket of a country a couple months ago (not like public support would have let him hear the end of it if he did). They aren't much, but Japan alone took out China with less and that was when the Chinese Military actually had experience from previous wars under its belt. Today's PLAN is 100% green and has a nationwide glass jaw in the Three Gorges Dam and the governments of Taiwan and Hong Kong existing as two other parties the Allies could insert to replace the current communist party if they misbehave too much.

>American-Chinese war
For what purpose and benefit? Do people not understand how global economies work? That would be the stupidest thing China could do is attack America. That would be like blowing your heater up in the middle of a blizzard.

>>34356419
We just don't know since 2 countries with tanks haven't really fought in decades.

>>34356498
>implying you'd ever need 120mm+ guns when you have missiles that do the same damage

>>34357093

A drone could be the bomb, you dumb motherfucker. Nothing says it has to be a giant lumbering bomb truck.

It takes like, three seconds to realize how valuable and dangerous drones will become.

>>34356498
>and AFVs are vulnerable to
Tanks are AFVs kid

>>34357252
why do you think the media keeps puffing up the "EU Army" story?

do you not know that Germany is stuck in a tough place and naturally tends to vacillate between East and West?

>>34357124

Damn, I guess drones are useless then. Oh wait, I circumvented your retarded concern by loading one time codes into the drone. So only the controller will ever give commands, if jamming is successful, artificial intelligence means they'll either RTB without proper authentication or continue continue to their predetermined target.

So short sighted.

So without tanks, what will be the primary force of a mobile ground unit? Mechanised infantry in their Bradleys/BMPs? Or are we in the delusion that airpower can hold and secure ground?

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>>34356648
his fucking asshole

>>34357016
>do you honestly think fighter developers have had the ability to make planes that are so maneuverable that a human pilot can not fly it?
Y-yeah?

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>>34356987
Chinese are ahead of you yankee dog

>>34357490
I would really hate to see how many primary services the Chinese 'own' in America.

No. Look up data from the ukraine conflict. MBTs (with active denial systems) are still where it's at - light armored fighting vehicles however are getting raped by guided artillery and ATGM's left and right

>>34357124
The greatest power of drones isn't carrying weapons, it's reconnaissance and painting targets for missiles and artillery shells fired from half a country over. You'll want a mix of different drones suited for different altitudes and have them share data with each other and friendly air craft and guys on the ground.

>>34357210
Those already exist - look up Uran-9 on youtube. A Russian remote controlled tank, 30mm autocannon, 7,62mm co-ax MG, half a dozen ATGMs.

>>34357016
Are you retarded? We can easily build planes today that are capable of pulling maneuvers that would instantly kill a human pilot, literally. A drone plane could pull 30 or 40g, for as long as you please, a human can bear maybe 9g for a few seconds.

>>34356856
Fuck these god damned soviet bitches.

>>34358053
The true greatest power that drones have is that nobody, especially not the taxpaying public, gives a shit if they are shot down over enemy territory and are captured by the enemy. That is certainly not true for human pilots. Public opinion at home is more dangerous to war efforts nowadays than enemy weapons and soldiers. Drones make it possible to wage war with impunity.

>>34356540
>When are we ever going to fight a conventional war though?
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

>>34357093
>>Size
>in what world? Fighter jets are BIG, bombers are BIGGER. Why? Because they need to carry a fuckload of a fuel, and munitions. Tiny drones already exist, and they're used as nothing more than cameras.
>>Weight
>?????? How does putting a person in a plane affect the weight at all ??????? Fighters weigh like 20 tons, a pilot weighs ~0.08 tons.
On small fighters, up to a third of the dry mass is a direct result of the pilot, user interface, and life support systems. Cut them out, and you have a smaller, lighter aircraft->you need a smaller engine and less fuel->you need smaller wings->etc.
The spiral ends up saving you around a third of the mass of a light fighter. On larger aircraft it is significantly less pronounced.
I'd also like to note that the F-15 can withstand harsher maneuvers than the pilot. There have been F-15s which survived 10G (instantaneous) turns, and designing for more isn't an issue- AAMs regularly pull 30-40.

>>34358166
>Public opinion at home is more dangerous to war efforts nowadays than enemy weapons and soldiers.
Absolutely correct.
/thread

>>34356637

THIS IS WHAT SLAVBOOS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

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tanks are vital in the ukraine war. i guess it depends on the conflict.

>>34357007
>the koreans fucking hate you
which is why they are still insistent that should the war ever go hot again, their military WILL go under our command.

>>34356540
>says man after WWI/WWII/Vietnam/Desert Storm I/Afg/Irq

>>34356898

They have one carrier NOW. In ten years, they could have twenty. It just depends on how quickly the Chinese want to build their shit up. There's nothing stopping them from trying to pull an Empire of Japan.

There was a time when the USA was one of the most poorly-armed countries in the world and was so militarily insignificant that it was getting invaded by fucking Mexico. Now we dominate the planet with weapons that can destroy an entire country in the blink of an eye.

Pretending that the way things are right now is how they will be forever is foolish.

>>34357178
>BRAZZERS.COM

>>34359058
Last I heard they will have 4 by the 2025-2030 time frame.

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>>34358218
>Shoots your drone out off a sky.

>>34356419
Yes.

Infantry fighting vehicles are where it's at.

>>34359885

But that is not an Armata which that Armatard claims that it can shoot down planes flying several kilometers up in the sky with a so called dedicated 125mm projectile fired from the main gun.