So with this whole Fitzgerald incident happening, can we agree

You're assuming it wasn't just some fucktard on the bridge.

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recap

>>34292343
You dumb shit.

The radar is for anti air use only. Why the hell would they waste power and resources to use it as a navigational radar? They have their own navigational radar

>>34292485
>1 person on duty observing the ship's location versus shipping traffic
Yeah that's bullshit. A complement on the bridge and CIC would have been on duty at their stations. The navy needs to own up that their systems missed something and something big. Better to tear off the bandaid so we can accelerate the modernization process.

>>34292502
>They have their own navigational radar
Which can't pick up a carrier-sized battering ram of fuck you apparently.

>purposly turn off alarm system
>get broken into
>blame said alarm system
this is you

>>34292493
What I don't get is the container ship clearly turned around to head right at the Fitzgerald. How could a merchant vessel know where a military vessel was?

3000¥ was deposited to your account comrade

it was a crusty and old flight one burke guis

>>34292597
The crash happened BEFORE the container ship turned around

Media (and a lot of people) got the location and time of the incident (16:30 UTC) wrong

>tfw the naval battles of the future will be fought with stealth container vessels instead of rail guns

I'm not sure how I feel about this....

>>34292559
So multiple fucktards on the bridge. That's not hard to believe in a world where almost everyone is terrible at their job.

>>34292629
That's like $30.

>>34292343
>didn't detect a massive container ship

How did you draw that conclusion? It's much more likely that the Fitz was watching and trying to hail the Crystal, getting no response or an incomprehensible response. Then the watchstander on the Crystal finally wakes up, takes it off of autopilot and starts doing some erratic maneuvering. That would explain the spastic course trace of the Crystal. The watch on the Fitz sees an imminent collision, makes a best guess try at avoidance, and gets plowed.

CO of the Fitz had probably just been notified and was on his way to the bridge when the impact happened. He was most likely on a ladder right in the middle of the impact area, which would explain his injuries.

What China is seeing is that USN ships are highly resistant to the tactics that they're building a whole class of 12K ton "coast guard cutters" for. They're quietly shitting bricks because they've invested a lot of time and resources into designing useless ships.

>>34292797
>Thinking the DDCutters are for hassling the US, not any number of SEA nations they regularly bully
Go back to CNN ameritard

>>34292343
THe SPY were with 99% surity not even on, and even if they were, they aren't used for navigation.

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>>34292343
>purportedly most advanced destroyer in service

according to who?

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>>34292343
>purportedly most advanced destroyer in service

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>>34292343
>So with this whole Fitzgerald incident happening, can we agree this is the end of the line for AN/SPY-1 and most of the current Burke systems?

S&R

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>>34292343
>This triggers the US Navy

>>34292343
It'll be fine as soon as they finish up-armoring all the destroyers.

>>34292797
>They're quietly shitting bricks because they've invested a lot of time and resources into designing useless ships.
I feel like every navy on earth is doing this right now. Is any navy not scrambling to build a bunch of ships that are full of neat tech, but designed for a clearly pointless activity?

>>34293176
>Why does it have a Dalek on the roof?

This wouldn't happen with a Zumwalt, desu senpai.

>>34292797
Even for an Ameritard, you're exceptionally stupid.

>>34292797
>What China is seeing is that USN ships are highly resistant to the tactics that they're building a whole class of 12K ton "coast guard cutters" for. They're quietly shitting bricks because they've invested a lot of time and resources into designing useless ships.
mind explaining these tactics and how they've been rendered useless?

>>34297529
Because the USN has seen that surface combatants are shit and will now shift to subs.

>>34297529
It was mostly a meme response to OP's meme post. The Chinese have a couple of mammoth cutters, partly in response to the not-quite-so mammoth cutters that the Japanese have fielded.

One of the tactics that these steroidal freaks use is nudging or sideswiping vessels from other nations to force them to leave a contested area. It works well on fishing vessels that are an order of magnitude smaller, and it would be effective against smaller warships. Nobody wants to be the first one to start shooting, because the retaliation and escalation would get out of hand overnight. So, schoolyard bully tactics.

Ramming, nudging, and sideswiping presents a real risk to the smaller and/or receiving vessel.

OP was making all manner of baseless assumptions, so I matched him and upped the ante. In short, I was just pretending to be retarded.

>>34292867
>>34296816
Your complaints are meaningless. My scenario stands.

>>34292797

Clearly they should instead be designing stealth rams whose objective is to sneak up on destroyers and melee them to death.

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>>34292343
>purportedly most advanced destroyer

>>34296740
Eat shit and die retard.

>>34292485
The Crystal's track looks like the ship was on autopilot and the crew snug in their bunks. Nobody headed to the bridge until twenty minutes later.

>>34292597
>How could a merchant vessel know where a military vessel was?
Because they were in a coastal waterway.

>>34292784
You only need one fucktard in charge and a culture of "the superior is always right" and you get this

Airlines realized after painful mistakes that the captain needs to be able to be countermanded reliably

>>34298608
Long ship is long. They might not have realized that they hit a ship at first.

>>34292343
In b4
>Muh munkey model

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>>34296740
response

Having served on a DDG, I know how watches are at 02:30. I think we're going to find with this investigation that at least a few watch standers, particularly any lookout, were asleep. I used to stand bridge watches and I've seen the OOD passed out leaning over the captains chair more than once.

It just shows that most of the American naval exercises are just for show. In real conflict most will not work.

>>34298923
Explain your reasoning, pls.

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>>34292797
>What China is seeing is that USN ships are highly resistant to the tactics that they're building a whole class of 12K ton "coast guard cutters" for.

>>34292493

>that song

Oh sweet salty christ yes

>>34298923
You can be sure of one thing: the navies of other countries will be fully as retarded, or more.

>>34299713
Yeah, the Fitz didn't appear to be especially resistant against ramming.

>>34298923
Isn't Americas navy one of the few that have even seen combat?

>>34298574
>Destroyer
>15,000t

They can pretend its a destroyer all they like. Its double the displacement of a Burke.

>>34293176
This, The ABs are over 25 years old and they're still building them

Granted upgrades and modern flights, but there's only so much reshuffling you can do to an old ship

>>34292789
No, that's $440.

Yuan is much stronger than Yen.

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>>34299797
>destroyer
Hell with that, it's of comparable specifications with battleships and ships the USN itself admits are cruisers.

>>34299779
But it is sink resistant.

>>34302293
after 3 hours of mad scramble as half the ship flooded

>>34298608
This. Crew was fucking asleep. Watch crew was fucking asleep. Duty officer was fucking asleep. Skipper was running a loose ship with predictable results. Now they are arguing about the time of the accident.

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>>34292343
They're not seaworthy anymore, and haven't been for some time.

Most of them don't even mount a main gun anymore.

>>34292493
>Edmund Fitzgerald
>USS Fitzgerald
It was destined to happen.

>>34292797
The Fitz shouldn't have gotten so close to a non-responding ship then. For all they knew it could have been hijacked by terrorists who rigged it into a giant suicide bomb. Unless of course there were orders to try to board the ship to figure out what was going on.

>>34299797
And Burkes are three times the displacement of a WWII destroyer. Your point being?

>>34302838
Three compartments isn't half the ship.

>>34302987
>They're not seaworthy anymore, and haven't been for some time.
Boi I hope you meant the Flight I Burkies there

>>34302987
>muh main gun

>>34302987
>Most of them don't even mount a main gun anymore.

They never use it.

>>34299797
>>34301878

It's also CLEARLY a technology demonstrator program for whatever is going to replace the Ticonderogas, one that the USN was able to hoodwink Congress into funding by calling this 15,000 ton American Kirov of a monster a "destroyer".

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>>34292343
>ramming speed titus

>>34303518
>technology demonstrator
Not is not.

Government saw that the Stealh Ship is Meme and cancelled his class, also money drain piece of shit for 300k USD a single round.

>>34298889
Isn't there some sort of automatic alarm?

Like radar picks up something large in collision, alarm goes off and wakes people up?

>>34298854
At least I got one.

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>>34292343
theorizing is fine but until the navy releases its investigation I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what really caused it. I can say the crew was on there shit damage control wise. I just hope the 7 sailors found in the flooded compartments died quick thats a death I would never like to see
>>34292797
i've heard the captains quarters where part of the ship smashed by the cargo ship, we was probably off watch when it happened

>>34302838
doesn't know anything about ship DC: the post

>>34292502
>The radar is for anti air use only.
That's not true but the rest of your post is alright and yes, OP is a dumb shit.

>>34292485
There are several people on the bridge and several people in CIC, someone should have caught it. What I heard (word of mouth, so not necessarily true) was that the merchant was overtaking, so FITZ should have held her course and speed until overtaken. Then the merchant turned towards them all of a sudden (close proximity/less reaction time (especially if people aren't paying attention)). We'll know when the official investigation comes out, comms are recorded, all the nav data and radar data will be in there.

Shitty things is the FC1 that died was on my first ship and I'm friends with him on fb. He was 3 months away from retiring.

>>34292559
You can't say it was their systems. DDGs have 2 dedicated surface search/nav radars and they probably had a track on it. I'm going to say this was a fuck up in the personnel department, possibly on both ships.

The fact that a DDG is way more maneuverable than a single screw, non-CPP, merchant means I think FITZ will get at least part of the blame.

>>34306933
>Bow gone
>Sail home in reverse
What works works.

>>34307321
>>34306933
I can guarantee if it had been a japanese cruiser they'd have just scuttled it on the spot.

>>34307331
Probably by accident, too.

>>34307349
On the other hand Americans couldn't even scuttle their own ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hornet_(CV-8)#Battle_of_the_Santa_Cruz_Islands
>American warships next attempted to scuttle the stricken carrier, which absorbed nine torpedoes, many of which failed to explode, and more than 400 5-inch (130 mm) rounds from the destroyers Mustin and Anderson. The destroyers steamed away when a Japanese surface force entered the area. The Japanese destroyers Makigumo and Akigumo finally finished off Hornet with four 24-inch (610 mm) Long Lance torpedoes. At 01:35 on 27 October, Hornet was finally sunk with the loss of 140 of her sailors.[24]

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>>34307401
>American torpedoes

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>>34307442
>war winning torpedoes

>>34307487
Of course, but every time I read about a naval engagement, there's always
>USS xxx fired yyy torpedoes at IJN ship zzz
>All failed to detonate

>>34307508
Pretty sure those were Japanese torps in the Hornet that didn't detonate.

>>34307508
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_6_exploder

>tfw a torpedo fuze is so shitty it needs its own wiki page to explain how shitty is was.

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>>34307331
Hah, no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_Suzutsuki

The Akizukis were badass little ships.

>>34299818
>what is spiral development
>a Flight III is the same class as a Flight I

>>34302987
>has to resort to a bad photoshop

>>34307729
>>34307331
Yeah, this actually happened fairly often. I believe the heavy cruiser Mogami weathered similar punishment.

>>34303518
>Program costs more than two carriers
>''''''Technology demonstrator'''''''

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>>34304068
I dunno, maybe. The only alarm I ever remember going off up in the pilot house was the one for if someone falls overboard wearing a MOBI, and it was pretty standard procedure to immediately mute said alarm and then complain about how annoying it was.

As incompetent as the officers on that ship were, it's a miracle we didn't get smashed by a freighter.


Pic related is a MOBI. It was worn on the life jackets. It would strobe and transmit it's location if it got wet.

>>34304068
The only alarms like that would be on the SPS-73 display on the bridge, maybe VMS. But those are local alarms and only alert the watchstanders. Been a while since I stood bridge watch but I don't even know that the 73 alarm is audible.

>>34308571
I don't know what ship you were on but we always checked at least. Yea, sometimes it was annoying but we ALWAYS checked just to be safe.

>>34308609
Pretty sure their mindset was, "why the fuck would anyone be wearing a float coat right now, they're probably just testing them and didn't warn us".

Ah yes, good ol' USS Fo Sho DDG 98.
I remember playing baseball in the pilot house with balled up paper and a cardboard tube. And making giant paper airplanes out of oceanographic charts and throwing them from the bridge wing. We liked to have fun.

>>34308745
Well in this case, I don't think the MOBI alarm was going off.

Sounds like a shitshow over there on 98.

>>34299870
No, Yuan value is "controlled" by the PRC government, not the market.
Try buying dollars or euros or yen with yours, buddy.

>>34307401
Wait-we tried to scuttle a carrier that still had 140 sailors on board?
I know the guys in the navy are pretty useless, but I didn't think we'd sink a ship with them still onboard, intentionally...

>>34309276
Well yeah. And so did the japanese - the Midway carriers were scuttled while hundred of sailors and engineers were burning alive in the cargo hold. It was a rough time for everyone.

>>34292597
>>34292797
>Americans blaming the cargo ship for the collision
Keep digging that hole, boys

>>34309308
Those were Japs.
Different scenario.

>>34309276
>Wait-we tried to scuttle a carrier that still had 140 sailors on board?
Dead sailors.
I think they died in the initial attacks. The captain was supposedly the last (living) guy off the ship when the destroyers GTFO'd

>>34302987
>>34303516
This. No navy ship uses the main cannon anymore, they mostly use missiles and torpedos now. So it doesn't even matter.

That is until the navy replace them with railguns.

>>34308530
>>34303630

Mark my words, doubters, the Zumwalt will be to whatever replaces the Ticons what the SSN-21's were to the Virginias.

>>34292343
>>34292559
You have no idea what you're talking about. All this would have taken is two lookout, two OSs in CIC, and an OOD being either preoccupied and/or fucking morons for this to have happened.

All the advance radar in the world isn't going to help if you aren't paying attention.

>>34292748
>>34292597
Actually, they disagreeing on timing. The Fitz is saying the Crystal did a uturn then rammed them.

Eitherway, if it was deliberate it was a target of opportunity.

>>34307195
This

>>34307226
The ships were moving in close quarters. The cargo ship was going on a normal path to overtake the Fitz, then swerved and rammed it.

It's maneuverable, but a Burke is not a speedboat

>>34311828
>The Fitz is saying the Crystal did a uturn then rammed them.

Wut. Every report says the ship hit then turned back.

Which makes sense if you look at the track, and see the crystal change course right towards the Fitz right before it hit.

>>34306933
Considering four spaces flooded and only seven sailors died, their DC was on fucking point and the crew handled it fantastically.
>>34311866
Early reports are always a shitshow, anon. As you've probably already seen, nobody can agree on when it happened. But we do have the track data for where it was when. Depending on who is right means two vastly different scenarios.

>>34311887
>But we do have the track data for where it was when.

Which proves the Fitz was hit then the ship turned back, unless you think the container ship can cause that parkisizons doodle under its own power.

You also see it change course right before the hit.

>>34311898
The doodle happens after the u-turn dude.

>>34292343
waiting for the "WHO WILL WIN" meme

1 1.843 billion DOLLAR TOP OF THE LINE US NAVAL GUIDED MISSILE DESTROYER

or

1 9 year old Philippine civilian container ship

>>34311907
Negative, that it was coming to a stop next to the ship.

The crystal can't do a 90 degree turn on its own.

>>34311914
It was a draw to be honest.

Unlike the state of the art Russian intelligence ship vs a sheep barge.

>>34311920
Tracks set in minutes, The turn could have been smoother but the transponder just didn't send out data for that to be seen.

>>34311930
Agreed, hence why the turn back looks so sharp.

But the delay makes it worse. The ship was at point x, then in a point where it simply could not have been under its own power. It obviously was not a turn on a literal dime, but it's was far sharper than the container ship could do without help.

>>34311926
It's a loss because a top of the line, end game DDG couldn't spot a fucking civilian ship.

Why has the USN been fucking up so much lately? Has there been a change of leadership for the worst?

>>34311955
Ship still floating and moving after getting hit by a container ship.

It's a draw.

You are also assuming the Fitz didn't see it, which evidence is pointing to it did, the container ship changed course last minute.

>>34311955
As a dude who got the fuck out, it's "New Navy" bullshit.
Between monthly "don't rape people" training, the systematic destruction of hundreds of years of tradition, the transfer of punishment from punitive and painful to administrative and lief ruining. Hours and hours of briefs on tolerance. The treating of sailors like complete children. The decades without a real war for us. The duties and responsibilities of the sailors being taken over by contractors. And, in general, fucking millennials (of which I am one, but goddamn) shit has started to get bad in fleet.

>>34311980
>The duties and responsibilities of the sailors being taken over by contractors

And thus, you outed yourself as a fraud.

Nice try.

>>34311914
20 000 TEU container ship full of lions vs. nuclear carrier with the power of 5.2 × 10-19 suns

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>>34311990
Sure thing buddy. I wasn't talking about underway responsibilities you ducking retard.

>>34312027
>I wasn't talking about underway responsibilities you ducking retard.

Well by all means SAILOR, elaborate.

>>34312050
>The duties and responsibilities of the sailors being taken over by contractors
The Navy buys whores these days. There is no bum drilling allowed between the sailors these days.

>>34312050
The maintenance and many of the responsibilities that are traditionally done by sailors in port, tons of little things and some big things, are legit being taken over by civilians. Preservation, systems maintenance, weapons onloads, in some cases in the preparation of the navigation systems. Fuck, the new LCS ships have civilian cleaning crews in port.
This isn't a direct cause. It's an example of how the New Navy is undermining work ethic.

>>34312087
I knew you were going to go towards "muh port services".

Spoilers: port service has always been handled by the local economy of the port in question.

Contractors don't touch weapons unless they are operating the crane the port owns. I was not OS but I know damn sure contractors were not allowed in the CIC/CDC.

You still sound like a larping faggot, or intensely butthurt. Rating?

>>34312130
>everyone who has a different view than me is butthurt. I ended up as a QM, and I'm not butthurt about my experience. Things worked out pretty fucking well for me, but I got out because I saw where the Navy was heading.
You sound geniuenly butthurt. And you "knowing damn sure" they're not allowed in CIC doesn't mean shit. Contractors can have security clearance, and I've definitely seen them working in there.
I'm not just talking stevedores and shit hit, it's gotten aggressive. Even chiefs were commenting on it.

>>34312159
Gah, forgot to hit enter out of greentexting. Ah well.
>>34312130
Eitherway, just admit you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about faggot

My theory on the weird AIS track?

IMO the collision happened before the US Navy said it did and the weird looping back on the AIS track is explained by the fact that the container vessel looped back to check on the ship they just hit. Generally, when a container ship hits something, that "something" tends to sink. Looping back to pick up survivors if the other vessel is sinking is the right thing to do. They probably lingered until the destroyer signaled that they did not need further assistance.

Generally speaking in these events, both ships are to blame, but generally it's the smallest of the two which needs to get the fuck out of the way simply due to the fact that larger ships maneuver very slowly. Of course, that is not true if the big ship is maneuvering weirdly.

If my theory is correct (and the collision happened before the erratic course changes), then the blame will fall on the US Navy, not the container ship. The largest ship has the right of way.

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>>34312159
>talking about weapons handling
>I'm sitting here assuming 5''
>QM

You are mad some nigger carried aboard a box of shotguns, huh?

No, I'm not Asshurt. But stating that contractors have been taking over duty is retarded. I mean full retard.

No shit they do port services. They always have. I mean always. It's part of port visits and why countries want us there (beyond the inevitable 3 people with signs)

>>34312209
https://youtu.be/RrIf20FriEM?t=2m1s

Maybe they should swing dick more heavily

>>34312217
>literally making constant assumption
>strawmans left and right
Man you are so full of shit and clearly buttmad I implied that Navy has discipline problems

>>34312209
>If my theory is correct (and the collision happened before the erratic course changes), then the blame will fall on the US Navy, not the container ship.

Crystal was crossing in front of the Fitz (based on damage). The problem arises when you see that the crystal turned into the fitz before it hit.

If indeed it did, the Fitz has no way out.

>>34312217
Hey retard
http://usmclife.com/2016/11/dc-think-tank-says-us-military-become-weaker-relies-much-contractors/
https://cybercemetery.unt.edu/archive/cwc/20110929221313/http://www.wartimecontracting.gov/docs/CWC_InterimReport2-lowres.pdf
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/202474-pentagon-should-cut-civilian-not-military-personnel

The over reliance on contractors is a known issue with the military

>>34312236
If you stated just that they had discipline problems I would agree. Part of the shitty special snowflake syndrome that has infected even my boat before I got out. But overall things were fine and professional.

But you went full retard.

>>34312280
Except you're literally objectively full of shit and can't admit it, moron.

>>34312285
>objectively full of shit
>after backing off his asinine statements to just having a discipline problem.

Cool story sailor.

>>34312262
There is a huge difference between what the army does for whatever baseing staff and navy. I don't know shit about what the army does though.

>>34312328
>Still strawmanning
I didn't back off shit you fucking moron. Goddamn you are fucking stupid

>>34312346
Based on your reaction I would say I was spot on about weapons handling.

Was I?

Either way, last (You) from me sailor.

>>34312381
No, no you weren't. Hence me saying you were strawmanning.
You're literally just trying to put words into my mouth, and then arguing with what you're saying I said, because when you actually tried to argue with what I actually said you were obviously full of shit

>>34312238
>Crystal was crossing in front of the Fitz (based on damage). The problem arises when you see that the crystal turned into the fitz before it hit.
>If indeed it did, the Fitz has no way out.

Except you're relying on the media to tell you the course of events? (How likely is it that the US Navy would immediately assume responsibility for having killed a bunch of their sailors when they can just spout nonsense for a while until people forget about the incident?)

I have (limited) experience on large vessels (as a non-command techy), and I just don't see the current narrative as being likely at all.

I'm going with the simplest explanation for now: The Crystal collided with the Fitz before the Crystal turned back. The turning maneuvers are hard to explain, unless they are a result of turning back to check on the damaged vessel.

But obviously that's going off very limited information.

There's also talk of the Fitz having been stationary in the water, which is a very weird thing to do in a heavily traveled strait like this.

>>34312603
>Except you're relying on the media to tell you the course of events?

Wut.... No? The als track showing a course deviation before point of impact. What we don't know is where the Fitz is. If he turned INTO the fitz, then there is nowhere to go while cruising.

>The Crystal collided with the Fitz before the Crystal turned back.

I agree.

>>34312630
> als track showing a course deviation before point of impact
i said the day of the accident that you faggots didn't know what time the accident occured and the japs confirmed it. the fucking collision happened at 0130jts before the chyrstal turned from toshima island. it followed the fitzgerald to render assistance than returned to base itself after others arrived to help.

stfu it's not a conspiracy the admirals are just retards for ordering emcon

>>34312630
>Wut.... No?

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

You just meant the Crystal turned from an east by north east to a north east bearing?

Noticeable, but normal if you realize where it's going and how the strait is shaped. If you notice that after it gets a wave off from the Fitz, it resumes it's original north east course to go to port.

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>>34312676
I am well aware. There is a clear corse deviation before the turn around right before the hit.

>>34292343
>It showed clear as day that the purportedly most advanced destroyer in service didn't detect a massive container ship until it was literally within ramming distance.

It shows nothing until the accident investigation board is done.

>>34312695
It's all good.

Nah, maritime traffic states that if your crossing in front of a ship you have to keep constant speed and bearing. The crystal didn't.

The issue is where was the Fitz. If they had no time to gtfo because a ship turned into them, they are not at fault.

File: 417F0AF000000578-4612334-image-a-11_1497708031094.jpg (106KB, 962x577px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 962x577px

This is what I think happened. Fitz was either going east (or was stationary as some sources claim, but that would be weird in such a highly traveled strait).

The Crystal did turn into her, roughly, but you need to understand that this is not a small turn. This is a slow turn. And the Fitz is over twice as fast as the container ship.

Maybe the Fitz figured they could beat the container ship's path & failed?

>>34312831
It can be a slow turn on the seas, but was clearly done in close proximity to the crystal. You don't turn into ships, for this very reason. The ship your turning into can't stop, cant turn away, can't turn towards without hitting past a certain point.

Based on your map they deviated twice (which may not be accurate), turning into the fitz even sharper before collision.

You don't overtake that close. You don't deviate when overtaking.

It's honestly looking like the crystal fucked up here.

>>34312851

Euhm, if the Crystal did not deviate from it's original eastbound course, they would have run aground? They're following the strait's traffic lanes. Hell, they were probably on autopilot following a previously plotted course.

The question is what the fuck the Fitz was doing crossing established traffic lanes in a way in which they failed to outrun a slow moving container ship?

>>34312927
>they would have run aground?

You travel in one direction long enough you will run aground. The island in question was still way far off and there is no reason to suspect there was nav hazards.

>The question is what the fuck the Fitz was doing crossing established traffic lanes

Wut. Why do you assume the Fitz was crossing anything. They were hit an an oblique angle, not perpendicular, so there is no reason to think the Fitz was just crossing the entire lane, the opposite is suggested.

>autopilot
Is not a logical excuse, and should be parented at all time.

I'm, the Fitz saw the first deviation, calculated it would cross in front, and kept speed and bearing. Then the crystal deviated again while crossing and hit the Fitz.

>>34312969
>I'm guessing*

>>34312969

Didn't mean it as an excuse, just an observation.

As for the Fitz's course (if any, since some course still say it was stationary), we likely will never know for sure.

>>34313022
Oh no, we will know. Any accident investigation on the seas involving USN ships is released with details.

>>34292343
This shit happens because our ship commanders have such a strict RoE that they can't even enforce their own bearings. There is zero reason for that containor ship to have ever come within 100 meters of that rig.
Naval officers need to be allowed to maintain the integrity of their course and to react defensively, aggressively, if you catch my meaning. So either nobody on the Fitzgerald bridge had authorization to put that fucking cargo ship down or drastically maneuver or they didn't have the balls. Either way, something's gotta change.

>>34313022
Link some of these sources that say the Fitz was stationary. That's new.

>>34313057
>Naval officers need to be allowed to maintain the integrity of their course and to react defensively, aggressively, if you catch my meaning. So either nobody on the Fitzgerald bridge had authorization to put that fucking cargo ship down or drastically maneuver or they didn't have the balls.

Is this bait?

>>34302946
>This more than likely
I've worked with the Navy. They have zero fucking discipline

>>34313294
>Link some of these sources that say the Fitz was stationary. That's new.

Just google "acx crystal fitzgerald stationary". There's a bunch of hits.

Supposedly the original source was the Jap authorities. Haven't checked for primary sources.

>>34313057
Naw, you are a cunt. It was a navigation accident. They happen.

>>34311980
Marinefag here. Spent 9 months on a Carrier (F-18 ordie). The Navy's social experimentation and general politically correctness along with non existent discipline never ceased to piss me the hell off. I always felt bad for the sailors that actually gave a shit.


>>34312050

You are a fucking faggot please go.

>>34312209
There is no law of tonnage. IMO rules are quite uniform and long established. an overtaking ship never has right of way. If you really want I can grab some sea trial results off of one of my old work hard drives and post them but let me just say that conbulk ships are far more maneuverable than you think. They just don't outside of emergencies or sea trials as you usually only pull the rudder stock after 15 years and don't want premature wear on it.

>>34313057
I don't know how they even allowed the crystal to even get near enough to swerve into it. The closest I've ever seen another ship to a navy vessel is when they do the unreps and there was always a special detail assigned for that evolution. Shooting container ships for drifting too close is retarded but they should have caught that the crystal was getting dangerously close and maneuvered defensively. The only thing that makes sense to me is whoever was supposed to be keeping an eye on surface contacts was asleep and the undes seaman they had on lookout duty had no idea what they were doing on watch

>>34313551
Carriers are the fucking worst to. Most sailors whose first ship is a carrier are really soft.
>starbucks
>wifi
>hair salons
>rampant and easy fraternization
>ship barely moves even in heavy seas
>no sense of camaraderie with 95% of the ship
The only carrier sailors I have any respect for are the guys on the flight deck and the nukes.

>>34314138
You should try being up on the bridge of a DDG going into Yoko from the west. Crossing the exit of that traffic separation scheme is pretty crazy sometimes, not to mention going through the sep scheme and then crossing outbound traffic to get to the outside of the harbor, avoiding a shitload of small fishing boats, and then finally entering the harbor.

>>34314459
I only did cvns during my time in (fucking nukes) and I'm sure it's a whole different ball game on a small boy. Also I was under the impression that they were still a ways out from the harbor but i never have pulled into yokosuka. I've seen some pretty batshit insane maneuvers from other boats when we've pulled into places though so if they were coming into the harbor I could see some stupid shit going down

>>34314523
I've only been on DDGs so far. Yea, they were further away. I was more commenting on anon saying he's never seen ships get close to warships except during an UNREP.

>>34307195
Sorry about your friend mate.

>>34313427
bullshit. I put my left hand sock on my right foot, that's an accident.
You let a fucking cargo boat rip half the hide off millions of dollars of detection equipment and a staff of hundreds of sailors, that's a mistake.

Whoever is running that boat has no fucking clue what he's doing and the shit runs downhill. They got off light, finding out the incompetent bastards can't even keep a trawler off their asses.

>>34315555
Thanks anon. It's pretty shitty, he had a family and was so close to retiring. I'm sure he would've started working somewhere else, but at least that would've been more of a 9-5 type job and he could spend a lot more time at home.

>>34317918
I hope this is accurate but we won't know until the full report comes out. The Rules of the Road say not to make minute course changes as they are ambiguous to outside observers but like the poster said, they should still keep track of them.

There should have been AIS, and maybe 73 collision alarms though, so even if all of that is true, I'm not convinced FTZ will be blame free.

>>34311858
I just meant compared to a single screw merchant, the DDG is leagues ahead in maneuverability. I think they might have assumed (as happens all the time) they were being overtaken and that other ship wasn't an issue, and then stopped paying attention. Still, we'll never know until the official report with all the data.

>>34312720
Is there a full map of this anywhere?

>>34292797
I would call you a retard but look at all those (you)s

>>34317918
not at all a bad theory, but if it's accurate, can we expect any changes to navy sailing doctrine, the burke, or right of way?
I don't think anyone will accept "lol gookboat fucked up, carry on" at the end of this, so what changes can we expect?