Why do guide guns tend to fire big bore, low velocity cartridges

>>34281459
Because you don't want something that will be easily deflected by brush and undergrowth on the way to the target.

>>34281465
I've heard that's just fuddlore.

>>34281459
Because guide guns are for fags who want to be a pretend cowboy

>>34281470
Well, you heard wrong then.

Because mass=penetration and unless you hit a bear's CNS or shatter its shoulder, you can't trust it to stop. .30-06 is mostly powder charge, which means range, and range isn't always an issue in wilderness defense. Bone-shattering and penetration is, and .45-70 is good for both.

.50 Beos are expensive and .45-70s are more common and hand-off friendly. Most big bore, large-case-capacity autoloader cartridges are rare and $$$ so they only reach a niche crowd. As time goes on they'll probably grow in popularity.

>>34281470
It is fuddlore that large projectiles wont be thrown off their path by an obstruction. It is not fuddlore that the effects are greater on projectiles with less mass.

>>34281470
Fuck no it ain't fuddlore.

Iraqveretan6969 has a video on his youtube channel showing it aint no myth

Better load options in a .45-70 as compared to something like a .30-06. You can get almost any load you can imagine in a .45-70 to include flat nosed bullets which will penetrate straighter compared to a spitzer tip .30-06. .50 Beowulf on the other hand is still relatively new and not terribly experimented with, it's also more expensive to field and there's nothing inherently better about a .50 caliber bullet aside from the frontal surface area but that comes with its own downsides that can make it disagreeable compared to a .45. There's no real reason to use a manual firearm over a semiauto for tactical uses but manual ones tend to be more resilient to hotloads and are more reliable when operating for extended periods in wet conditions that a hunter may find himself in. They tend to be cheaper for the quality too which is fine because a hunter ideally needs only one shot unless he's blasting hogs from a helicopter.

>>34281502
"Hand-off" should be hand-loader. Stupid phone! And other Anon is right: deflection is a problem. Spitzer bullets and low mass projectiles can deflect from brush. Yogi has the trees working for him.

>>34281502
>mass=penetration
No, it doesn't. Sectional density gives you better penetration. A 220 grain 30-06 will have better sectional density and better velocity than even a hot loaded 430 grain 45-70.

>>34281507
>>34281509
Yes, it could be deflected, but would it really be enough to matter? We're talking about short ranges at a big target.

>>34281459
Why not use both big caliber and high velocity? 375 H&H Magnum or even .50 BigMemeGun?

The price of the ammunition won't be much of an issue if you're a reloader, which a guide ought to be anyway.

>>34281749
Comparatively few loadings for both and the guns themselves are rather expensive. .50 BMG is largely stuck with spitzer tip bullets due to the nature of an automatic round and the .375 is not really big bore by hunting standards and has a comparatively short list of options.

>>34281533
Velocity is only one part of the equation, there's loadings for the 45-70 that have more energy than the 30-06 can put out.
Bullets with large flat meplats have also shown to have better straight line penetration, the 30-06, even the 220 grain bullets is more like to turn or tumble and possibly even shatter on a thick bone, that is not what you want in a dangerous game cartridge.
Now there's no reason it couldn't be used for dangerous game defense and personally I think the Ruger Guide Gun 30-06, based off the m77 Hawkeye Mauser style action is great all round rifle for North American game, but there's something to be said about the lever gun 45-70's being a less cumbersome rifle that is fairly compact and lightweight.
When you add in the advantages of a much heavier bullet going a bit slower and how conducive it is to penetration you get to why people prefer the large bores for dangerous game.

>>34281813
Penetration isn't even the whole story. As was pointed out a few posts up, if you have a grizzly gun you'll be firing at such short ranges (somewhere between 30 yards and oh shit it's mauling me) that high-velocity low-mass projectiles might even over penetrate. At medium to long ranges though (or even shorter ranges when you're not about to get eaten if you miss) their ballistic characteristics are really nice for large game/people. Thus .223 and 5.45 being popular for deer hunting.
On the other hand, the hole a .223 is gonna make at such short ranges is going to be much less immediately incapacitating than the hole a .45-70 will due to overpenetration.
It's like a .22 through a piece of paper vs your fist through a piece of paper. .22 will go farther and penetrate more, even has more net energy. But your fist fucks up the paper worse.

There is also an issue with penetration. High velocity gives lower penetration when the bullet goes over 1900-2000 fps. Water is not compressible and creates a shock wave that effects a big 45 cal bullet more than a 223-30 cal bullet. This is not well understood. Each of the big three (444, 45-70 and 450 Marlin) hit the sweet spot. 45-70 like the 44 mag in a handgun is the best balance for weight and velocity.

Scope a 444 marlin with 240-300 gr bullets
Open sights on 45-70 govt with 405-435 gr bullets
500+ gr bullets in a 450 marlin depending on the chamber throat.

Straight wall cartridges are also easier to reload and safer to download to lower power.
A 45-70 with 405gr cast bullet and a 85-95% charge of Trail Boss will be doing a bit over 1000 fps. Weak by the full power standards of the big three but still able to wreck the shit of anything walking short of the big bears.

>>34281459
>Bears with guns
That shit right there is why I carry a 10mm.