It's 2017. Can we finally admit that iron sights are deprecated

same thing for the forward assist

>>34258224
lightweight backup sights will always have some amount of effective utility imo

>>34258224
No, irons will never be outdated because optics can get lost, shot, break, or generally fucked up. Irons will always have a place even if it's just as a backup

2/10 for making me reply

>>34258263
Forward assist is way more useless than backup irons

>>34258224
Small 45 degree irons are a perfect backup. Optics break way easier, batteries run out, etc.

It's also a great CQC option if you have a scope.

>>34258288
>bang handguard on ground a year ago and knock it out of true
>jiggaboo charges at you with a knife
>you forgot that your red dot has a 50,000 battery life and you have to be an idiot to ever turn it off but it's too late now so you aim through your iron sights
>it's dark and you can't see shit except his teeth
>you start firing
>you're missing all his vitals
>he's closing the distance

gg

>if I have a scope that doesnt have a quick detatch mount
I'd prefer not to have them, unless its for home defense
>if I have a red dot/quick detatch mount
then i would like to have some

>Being against iron sights

HERESY.

>>34258224
Some of us don't have cash for an optic, or something that mounts an optic.

Any idiot can file up some iron sights, and then zero them with a hand file.

Can't say that about an optic, now can you?

>>34258224
>iron sights are deprecated

This is true. In the 6 or so years I've owned my AR I've flipped up the sights outside of zeroing a grand total of zero times.

>pointless extra weight to lug around

They have a purpose. Not enough of one to justify how important a bunch of autists on /k/ think they are though. Thing is, they don't add enough weight to be a burden.

It's worth mentioning that in the event that you manage to break an aimpoint and not disable the rifle you're probably better off taking a shot through the tube than you are flipping up irons in the event of an emergency.

>>34258288
All of this stuff can happen to irons.

>>34258436

I don't think poor fiscal sense or lack of self control can count as a win for irons. Those are personal problems, not an issue with the piece of equipment.

Seriously though, a PRO isn't prohibitively expensive. If you can't afford to save up $437 (as of right now) for a one time purchase I don't imagine you're doing a lot of centerfire rifle shooting in the first place.

Are the magpul ones gud? Did you go cheaper?

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They hardly weigh anything and they are a failproof backup. Don't be a dumb tit.

>>34258407
>not realizing it was out of true the next time you took it shooting, let alone letting it go for a full year

You deserve to get nigknifed.

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>>34258263
You're also being a dumb tit. Stop being a dumb tit, you dumb tit.

>>34258472
>in the event that you manage to break an aimpoint and not disable the rifle you're probably better off taking a shot through the tube than you are flipping up irons in the event of an emergency.

This

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>>34258224
>tfw my ar with the acog has a fixed carry handle but the one with the memeotech doesn't have backups
It's like I want death.

Backup iron sights and getting gud with them are not a bad thing but modern optics are mostly retard proof. Get something not shitty and it will probably work.

>>34258407
>it's dark and you can't see shit except his teeth
>you start firing
>you're missing all his vitals

Subtle 9/10.

>>34258224
I would have them if I relied on electronic sights but I've never seen a fixed power leupold fail even after taking a beating so I think I'm good.

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irons are fine if you've got enough light, and don't weigh enough to be a problem ever. They can also be stupidly durable, being made out of fucking steel.

No reason not to have some cheap plastic folding sights on there just in case, unless you're a complete weight weeny.

>>34258224
Learn to shoot with iron sights, you can use damn near any weapons in an emergency.
Learning with sights, you limit yourself.

>>34258224
Get out of here Karl.

>>34258288
So question do you see anything wrong with a rifle that only has a single set of irons? Because iron sights are just as susceptible to damage as optics are, better get some backup irons for your irons. In fact get some more, backup irons for your backup irons, two is one and one is none right? Might as well get 2.

>>34258537
literally just push on the side of the bcg, if you still can't get it in shits fucked anyway

>>34258729
> Because iron sights are just as susceptible to damage as optics are
The size and low profile, not to mention their inherent simplicity and total lack of hollow tube construct, kinda makes this remark retarded as all unholy fuck. Optics now are practically bomb-proof, but to say irons are susceptible to the same kind of damage optics are, and to the same degree, is straight up kys territory.

>>34258741
>literally just push on the side of the bcg,
People who don't own ARs don't get to comment on how people should use them/burn the fuck out of their thumb. You dumb tit.

>>34258779
Done it before many times friend, who is the one that doesn't own an AR here?

FA is useless for malfs, it's literally only useful for ensuring you're in battery after a brass check.

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>>34258224
You are not wrong.
Apply this mindset to other areas of your life.
There is a significant amount of pointless weight dangling between your legs.
Cut them off and affix pic related to your shooter.
Tactical AND Practical.

>>34258810
which you can also do by just pushing on the bcg itself

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>>34258790
Gonna say you, or you're a poofter who tosses all of 30 rounds downrange before tossing his faggy M&P15 into the back of his truck and heads home. Either way, you're the kind of guy who would rather mash his thumb against gas ports than a simple button that doesn't require you to remove your firing hand.

What I'm saying is, you're a pretty dumb tit.

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>>34258810
>FA is useless for malfs
Wrong again. Lots of dumb tits in this thread.

>>34258831
lol you still believe the "DI heats the carrier" meme? Even after dumping a few mags full auto they barely break 100 F.

You sound like a giant pussy

>>34258263
>forward assists
>useless
I got an ARAK-21 upper and people short stroke it all the time 'cause they don't know you're supposed to just let go of the charging handle. I know a lot of new shooters.
Anyways, it has no forward assist, so the only way to get that round chambered is to toss it out and put a new one in, or take the mag out and short stroke it until the bolt locks. If you don't take the mag out, the friction pulls a round out of the mag and it gets jammed.

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>>34258861
Hey, post your AR you dumb tit.

>>34258861
The BCG literally takes in a bunch of fuckhot gasses through the gas key, passes them into a chamber, and then expels them out of ports, how the fuck would it NOT conduct heat?

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>>34258884
literally google it dude, this was common knowledge on /k/ not long ago.

first result on google

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/568299_How_hot_does_the_BCG_get_during_strings_of_rapid_fire__.html

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>>34258224

Irons are eminently useful and practical. Backup irons are silliness though. Pick one or the other for a given rifle and be done with it.

Here's Larry Snickers abusing the fuck out of an aimpoint (and a DD M4). The optic is hit with birdshot at relatively close range, thrown from a vehicle, run over several times, blown up with tannerite, and then tossed out of a helicopter. By the end, the aimpoint is quite badly damaged and the zero has drifted, but the dot is still usable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUASQMt5l8

Nightforce removing a scope from a rifle, whacking it against a shooting bench, throwing it around like a baseball and then remounting it with no loss of zero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6LXAXu15eg

Similar test with a US Optics scope, on harder ground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ewpwPTA6Q

Here's a guy freezing an aimpoint in a block of ice, busting it out with a knife and a hammer, and then knocking it around with a baseball bat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOyZdnpKs4


Bottom line is that if your rifle+optic take such a high impact that your sights are damaged, your BUIS are probably fucked as well, and you might as well just keep shooting through the tube if you can't just pick up another gun.

It's also worth mentioning that if you're not an actual operator and the most serious use you'll get out of your rifle is hunting or competition, you shouldn't be using a gun that's just had a hard fall. If you're up a mountain and you drop your rifle, either let your buddy shoot, or use their gun to fill your tag. Irons can drift in a dovetail or get bent easily.

>>34258624
>acog

>habbening habbens
>can't send the acog back to Trijicon
>tritium runs out in 12 years

>>34259011
>Acog
>Tritium
Summer, go and stay go.

>>34258224
You're sights ourn't going to work after the EMP is dropped by the North Koreans in collusion with the Russian hacking it. Electronic you're gun stupid.
Haha. You're corpse is a diamond dozen when their attacking.

>>34258944
I can also google and pull up the first sourceless arfcom post. Answer the question.

>>34259096
>not abandoning all aiming systems and purely training your point shooting and inner third eye

Do you want to be killed by the cyber-commies and their eye melting chemical weapons?

>>34259011
If the happening happens then you have bigger issues on hand but even then you have all of 12 years to find a replacement solution so I think you'll be okay.

>>34259117
Answer what question? Why it doesn't get hot? The gas is already much reduced in temp by the time it reaches the bcg anyway, and the much higher mass of the bcg receiver and everything soaks the heat away way faster that the block can.

You must be new, during the piston vs DI wars of 2010-2012 there were countless internet battles over this and tons of people doing the "take the bcg out and hold it" memes

>>34259011
>Even wanting to survive a happening that lasts more than a dozen years
>implying the FO isn't still in place
This thread is fucking retarded

>>34259051
>ACOG
>doesn't have tritium
Wut.

>>34259137
It still conducts heat you moron and eventually it'll be hot enough that you won't have to touch it. You straight up said BCGs conducting heat was a meme when it's literally impossible they wouldn't. Fuck you dude.

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>>34259137
Are you going to post your AR?

>>34259162
yeah we were talking about the carrier getting too hot to touch not literally whether thermodynamics exists or not you fucking moron.

within any reasonable amount of firing the bcg will not get hot enough to touch.

>>34259180
>yeah we were talking about the carrier getting too hot to touch
And it will eventually you unbelievable mongoloid, precisely BECAUSE of thermodynamics and because three mags isn't jack shit. Holy fuck kill yourself.

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What gun is is this? 738?

>>34259196
At three mags it's barely above room temp, how many magdumps are you going to be doing while slaying ISIS bodies in your kitchen friend?

>>34259204
sa 25?

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>>34259196
Don't worry, whenever he actually gets an AR of his own and pumps eight mags downrange in the span of ten minutes he'll find out when he decides to ignore the handy button and opt to mash his thumb into the BCG for whatever reason. :^

>>34259209
>At three mags it's barely above room temp
>110F from your own source
>'I barely shoot when I'm at the range, so everyone else must also'
I don't know why I bothered ever replying to you you clueless tool.
>>34259220
Don't talk to me goat fucker.

>>34259246
yeah 110F as in barely above room temp. It was 95F today where I live, miraculously I managed to avoid receiving third degree burns all over my body.

>>34259246
Oh my, rude! :'^

I don't own a single gun with an optic on it.

>>34259263
I'm afraid you don't know what room temperature is actually classified as. This is getting sad. Enjoy your ten minute range trips with the rentals.
>>34259265
Fuck you.

>>34259282
lol whatever your say friendo

be careful the next time you go to wash your hands, that 100 degree water might melt the skin off lmao

lookee here a vijeo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81g2p6uQVgY

his hands didn't even melt off!!

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>>34259303
Why don't you post your AR, goatbro? I have three. How many do you have?

>>34258224
I actually agree with this. Anything that can break an aimpoint will break irons.

>>34258224
>>34258263
Get back to making videos, Karl.

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>>34259335
>The ideal combat AR has a CavArms lower
It went downhill from there. Made me sad.

>>34258407
>melaninated individual is charging at you in the dark
>taking type to look down irons at all

they'd be so close you can just snap off some shots from the hip

>>34259353
How come you never post your AKs anymore?

>>34259096
This!
EMP beats red dot!

>>34259204
>>34259209
>>34259216
Also red dot auto off in 12 hour have to turn on and take time. When 1 second matter; red dot is 3/2 second away. You die. Iron sights only rust but not really because they actually steal.

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>>34259447
Because the Draco is fucking garbage beyond novelty factory and the WASR is solid but meh. The RPK is seeing a bit of a revival because it's so much fucking fun to shoot.

I've also pretty much moved on, the aftermarket of the AR is just too good.

>>34259473
I prefer how easy it is to clean AK over AR and ammo is cheaper.
I also think 7.62*39 might do better out of the short barrel. It's also quieter than an AR pistol.
Mine is a century. Century is milled and made in America making it the best AK you can get.

>>34259462
>he thinks EMPs affect simple small electronics
>he thinks any dot sight worth buying turns itself off

>>34259526
>Century is milled and made in America making it the best AK you can get.
the absolute state of /k/ in 2017

now I remember why I stopped coming here 4 years ago

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I can't afford optics.

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>>34259526
>Century is milled and made in America making it the best AK you can get.

So very, very wrong.

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>>34259526
This is a thread full of bait, and I'm not biting yours senpai.

>>34259589
Arsenal a stamped a shit.
Can make arsenal quality AK out of a shovel.

>>34259583
I rarely see the PRI sights, how is the full hood with an AR style post instead of the HK globe?

>>34259603
I bet the VFG on that SBR feels just like dick. Is that why you like it?

>>34259583
You can, but if your rifles are any indication you're just dogshit at managing finances.

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>>34259617
There's literally nothing wrong with stamped AK's, the AKM would like to have a word with you.
2/10 for the fifteen seconds it took to type this reply and ten seconds it took to chose an appropriate image for your retarded ass.

>>34259643
>b-but muh UBR

>>34258867
Can't you just push the BCG manually?

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>>34259645
That's not even a rebuttal, just rote parroting.
Trunnions can break and milled receivers are more accurate anyway thanks to being stiff all the time over how awesome they are.

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>not having ultra lightweight irons built into your rifle

>>34258407
Aim at at teeth. Bullet straight thru brain stem

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>>34259680
The accuracy of a milled AK over stamped AK is hardly measurable and any AK is going to start falling apart if the riveting is shit.

If you buy an AK for accuracy you're not thinking clearly.

>guess how many Bulgarian SLR's have fallen apart
>>34259693
Irons nobody uses.

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>>34259620
I don't know. I just sight them in and shoot.
>>34259643
kek

>>34259713

>irons nobody uses

Because no one gets their optic wrecked operating

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>>34259713
>turned and ran because they knew their AK's would fall apart.

>>34259667
No. There's no surface like that to grab onto. It's got an integrated dust cover on both sides, so it's totally flat.

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>>34259751
Nobody notable has ever operated with a tavor.
>>34259755
>grasping at straws; the post

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>>34259769
Other than conceding the validity of every argument I've made while claiming only that it's not a big deal, you haven't made any points.

Hey im torn between a Primary Arms 1-6x optic and saving up a bit for an Aimpoint for my 16" barrel AR15

which would you all recommend? the Aimpoints are basically indestructible for day-to-day range and, if necessary, Roof-Korean'ing, but PA scopes have magnification and are lower cost but seem reasonably durable.

>>34259799
There's no point to make when century has made garbage AK's before and only fudds that think that U.S. made AK's are always going to be better.

It's already been decided long ago that Bulgarian SLR's are top of the line unless you want purely custom shit (and that, wow, surprise, is not coming from Century). Their fit in finish is better than both Saigas and Veprs and it's been proven, aside from a small batch of 107's that had issues with paint treatment due to humidity. Just stop trying.

>>34258224
>I never learned to shoot with iron sights, therefore iron sights are stupid and pointless.

>>34259828
Do you want/need magnification for the shooting you partake in that is not fantasy?

Buy accordingly.

>>34259220
What is that vfg?

>>34259946
my local range goes out to 300 yards... thats about it. not much public land you can shoot on either, but theres a 500 yard range like an hour away. never been yet

>>34259849
You can have your good fit and finish; I'll take my Vepr FM any day. Better barrel and better sights

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>>34260080
>better barrel
No, that really depends on what flavor of barrel you like.
>better sights
Wow, a ten dollar replacement that I can get off of any RU surplus website and that's if the SLR's didn't use the same ones.
>no angle break for an AKM clone

>>34259982
Stubby TangoDown QD.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2252236386/tangodown-quick-detach-stubby-vertical-forend-grip-ar-15-polymer

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>>34258224
They aren't necessary for most shooters. The problem I can think back to is when my platoon was moving through a swamp in Fort Bragg and I fell into a shitty water pit. The ACOG got super dirty. It was just training, but in a real world environment having a QD mount with BUIS would have been absolutely ideal.

>>34260130
I like the flavor that has "substantially extended service life over AK type rifles" to quote k-var. And try $50 for the rear leaf + front post. Honestly I don't think anyone would go to the trouble to replace their akm sights until they shoot rpk sights, so it's good that they come from the factory

>>34260229
it would take longer to detach the qd and deploy the irons than it would to just wipe the lens on the optic

>>34259849
>other manufacturers make shit because they're shit but when arsenal makes shit it's just a bad batch because arsenals arent shit.
Yeah, whatever you need to tell yourself.

>>34260255
>source: never used a qd mount

>>34260277
literally the only response anyone on /k/ ever has.

you realize that qd mounts are not exactly rare right? you are not special snowflake for having used one, they're everywhere

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>>34260251
I can find them for cheaper and it wouldn't be very difficult. And there's no point into going into the trouble because you're not going to be shooting an AK, be it AK or RPK to 1000 yards.
>>34260256
It's because they -are- shit. US built AK's are fucking garbage and so are US barrels. This is nothing new and hasn't been for years. There's a reason Century needed to make a second version of their domestic market AK and there's a reason Arsenal Bulgaria has not. Grasping at straws.

>>34258513
That's $437 worth of ammunition I could have trained with and actually become a better shooter with.

Almost two spam cans worth.
Do you know how much improvement can be had with just shy of 1000 rounds?
Hmmmmm?
And if it means I need to stick to irons to be able to practice more, then I will gladly be called a poorfag by you.
Better a well trained poorfag than an incompetent normal fag.

>>34260255
Eh, I doubt that. I carried a lens cloth for my eye pro because they frequently fogged up. Even that was always a chore. Fishing it out and trying to clean mud off would leave plenty of residue, not to mention fuck up a lense cloth. "Deploying" the irons just meant flipping up the Matech rear. I think the usefulness of optics is clear at this point, but I have seen busted lenses. Granted, dirt on the optics was far more common.

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>>34260255
>I can have a lens wiped clear of debris and muddy muck, along with its residue, before my idea of a QD mount could be removed
What dogshit mounts have you been using, anon?

>>34260297
Lol I don't even mess around with the slider. The windage adjustment in the back makes the gun super easy to zero and re-zero. Plus, the thinner front post is way easier to make 200+ yd hits with

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>>34260290
Which makes it all the more confounding as to why you'd say something so buttfucking retarded like >>34260255.

>>34260334
>>34260348
I think it's clear by now that you are an autistic retard, but wiping the lens on my aimpoint takes a shirt tail and all of 5 seconds.

Don't let that be an excuse for you to go spend some money on more gun gadgets though

>>34260297
If you haven't switched them out yet you honestly should; especially if you can get them cheap. Not even trying to give you a hard time

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>>34260363
Really, you can get a bunch of mud and grime and everything that entails as described in >>34260229 free in just a swipe of a t-shirt? -And- in less time than it's take someone to throw a lever? I want you to think real, real hard how your sight picture is going to look after that, anon.

Keep making excuses for your poverty though, it's cute. ^_^

>>34260389
Poverty? You think I don't have a quick detach mount? You realize that in one of the posts you quoted I said that I did right?

And yes wiping the lens is the easier way.

>>34260363
>all of 5 seconds.
I can ditch my optic via its lever mount in half the time, so that kinda validates the point

>>34258224

I can't wait until people start sating "Why do you have irons on your gun?"

Going to have my slide cut for a Shield RMS and eliminate the rear iron, and Im not running irons at all on the AR pistol mainly because I'm setting the inforce WML at the top rail.

>>34259209
3 quick mag dumps won't allow enough time for heat soak to rear its ugly head. Try firing ~600 rounds over the course of an afternoon and then touch the BCG. The barrel absorbs most of the initial heat but it passes it on over time. Every AR I've pushed over a full morning or afternoon of shooting has heated up to the point that even the receiver becomes scalding hot despite our slow, controlled rate of fire. Heat soak is a bitch but you won't notice its effects if you're just plugging away at the range for an hour.

>>34260415
You still sound like a stupid poor nigger that makes stupid poor nigger attempts at arguments because you are, in all likelihood, a stupid poor nigger. Who the fuck argues against QD mounts by saying they can just wipe away mud like it's water without any sort of residue being left behind quicker than it'd take to use any decent QD mechanism? You do, you stupid poor nigger.

>>34260423
>Try firing ~600 rounds over the course of an afternoon
Wh-whoah anon, most people can't afford to do any more than three mags per range trip, reel it in!

>>34260441
Pretty comical how a ~$200 optic mount is what separates the rich and the poor to you. Who exactly do you think falls into that category anyway? A 15 year old kid?

>>34258849
Do you have like 6 AR's or something?

>>34260053
Get the PA scope. Did you factor in the cost of the cantilever mount as well?

>>34260455
>>34260423
Why would a range trip be relevant to your argument? If you're at the range just fix the malfunction instead of forcing it into battery.

Nowhere outside of the range are you going to be shooting that kind of ammo, in any practical scenario you couldn't even carry think kind of ammo.

>>34260461
Why are you still acting a dumb bimbo that's trying to dodge the fact that 5 seconds was not enough time to deploy the QD mechanisms on a mount? I mean, that -was- the original point of the discussion, or are you having trouble following and just decided to lash out like a total sperg in >>34260363 by arguing an utter nonpoint in something that didn't even involve you? That's the best case scenario unfortunately, because otherwise you are that stupid soul that made the original post >>34260255

Silly dumb bimbo.

>>34258224
>pointless extra weight
What extra weight? If the weight of iron sights is too much for you, then it's time to hit the gym.

>>34260336
Out of the two SLR's I've owned I've not had to zero/re-zero any of them.
>>34260372
Maybe after I SBR my 107UR I'll get some for my 104.

>>34258224

they weigh next to nothing, so you can handle the weight. Plus the only time you ever pick up a gun, is when your raiding your mom's fridge for some tendies.

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>>34258224
POG here. This is my point of view. Take it or leave it.

Now I didn't do a lot of shooting in the army. As a private I didn't even have an optic of any kind. One of the days that we did go to the range, my M16 had a broken rear sight. The windage wasn't adjusting. So, in that case it would have been good to have a second sight. Again, I wasn't some meat eating SEAL, but I see the value of a back up sight.

>>34260488
>Why are you still acting a dumb bimbo that's trying to dodge the fact
Your entire post was "stupid poor nigger" lmao

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>>34260481
That's fucking irrelevant, why do you think
>Just use your thumb to push in your BCG, it'll never get hot
wouldn't ever apply to a goddamned range trip? Even then it completely ignores the original point FAs being supposedly useless, because yo're -still- using a needlessly more involved process to ensure your BCG is fully seated.
>>34260465
I have half of that.

>34260520
You're still acting like a stupid poor nigger. Stupid poor niggers don't get (you)s, especially if they can't even follow a fucking single point of discussion. No more replies, senpaitachi. </3

>>34260526
Because forcing the gun into battery is something you only need to do in an emergency? And you are never going to have to shoot someone in an emergency at the range? The only time when you will realistically get the carrier hot is goofing around at the range.

Also relax it seems like you're getting a little steamed there pal.

>>34259325
I really do like MSDs aesthetic choices. Aside from potentially being a furfag

>>34260501
Well yeah you shouldn't have to re-zero unless you're dialing it in for a new ammo type or putting on a new rail/muzzle device.

>>34260550
> forcing the gun into battery
You stupid meme-spewing retard, I bet you're one of those mouth-breathers that unironically believe people just mash the FA with all their might and that the only thing that could possibly impede a BCG from going into battery is some whimsical obstruction that follows it the entire way, somehow giving way to the force of a light tap but then suddenly gaining resiliency after the fact to the point that it causes the entire rifle to explode.

That isn't how FAs work. That isn't how they're used. That isn't how BCG obstructions work here.
>And you are never going to have to shoot someone in an emergency at the range?
So I should just go out of my way to use the single shittiest method of seating my BCG?
> The only time when you will realistically get the carrier hot is goofing around at the range.
No shit, but as has been said, where you're shooting means fuckall in this discussion.
>it seems like you're getting a little steamed there pal.
I don't tolerate abject retardation well, forgive me.

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>>34260552
I don't know what you mean.

>>34260579
That's quite the strawman there friend but how about just forcing shit into your chamber that shouldn't be there? Even if it's a minor obstruction why force it? You're at the range goofing around, just clean it out.

Even in your scenario the only use for a forward assist would be for goofing around at the range and if you're too lazy to clear out a malfunction, not exactly a must have.

>>34260579
>>34260593
Wow, chalk it up to a short, tubby tripfag to end up triggered as fuck. What a surprise.

>>34258436
Zero them with a hand file? What is this 1908?

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>>34260606
> forcing shit into your chamber that shouldn't be there?
You're too stupid to reply to any more.

>>34260609
To be fair, the M1 Carbine had to be zeroed like that.

>>34260614
Thanks for conceding

>>34260606
>That's quite the strawman there friend but how about just forcing shit into your chamber that shouldn't be there?
how would something on the lugs or bolt head be impeding the carrier when none of that comes into contact with anything besides brass before entering the chamber?

>>34260630
Why does it have to be the lugs or bolt head? There could be shit in the chamber itself or the round.

It doesn't even have to be just the chamber, if there's shit in the locking lugs it can prevent them from seating correctly. Yeah it probably won't blow up or anything f you force it but why do it?

i mean they weigh about as much as the replacement batteries for an eotech, so theyre still pretty useful.

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>>34260526
>3 AR's
>of different styles

I can dig it. A2 is fucking killer

But there aesthetically pleasing to the eye

>>34258224
You're the kind of guy who thinks the F-4 only needed missiles, aren't you?

>>34260649
you said forcing shit into your chamber, so i dunno how it could be interpreted any other way than foreign matter being introduced by the bolt. bullets doesn't work, because anything on there is just going to get scraped off while loading by the chamber walls more than likely, and even then if you fire it will have enough force to clear anyways

what shit on the locking lugs? how did it get there? one of the best parts about the AR is how sealed it is, which makes something getting on the lugs very unlikely

i can see the assist potentially causing problems, but it's also stupidly unlikely that the circumstances that would lead up to that would ever happen

>>34260630
Maybe if he had a single fucking clue how ARs functioned he'd realize he's being retarded, but anons discussing ARs outside of /arg/ is one of the most painful things on this board. This is why things like little hangups, stubborn magazine lips, or the edge of a jacketed tip hanging on a feed ramp don't even enter their thought process, things that literally require nothing more than a tap of the FA to clear, and all are far, far more likely to occur than the convoluted phantom jam they keep pulling out of their asses. They picture people slamming their palms into the FA, the BCG scraping forward bit by bit until it reluctantly seats, and then the rifle exploding. No, it doesn't make any fucking sense, but these people don't own ARs, don't shoot ARs, and don't fucking know anything about ARs, so they parrot the shit they hear on youtube anyways. Karl and Ian say FAs make the rifle jam, so that's what they shit out on this board. Up next; why you should only load your 20 rounders to 18 so you can preserve the springs!

>>34260709
>you said forcing shit into your chamber, so i dunno how it could be interpreted any other way than foreign matter being introduced by the bolt.
If there is debris on the round it can definitely prevent a full seat in the chamber, if you are only a couple thou off the chamber depth when reaming it can prevent the bolt from seating, you can bet that debris can do the same thing.

>because anything on there is just going to get scraped off while loading by the chamber walls more than likely,
Yeah and more than likely you will never ever need to use the thing in the first place, that would be my argument. But this eternal debate is always centered around retardedly unlikely scenarios so for the sake of that argument it is still possible that stuff can get in through that route.

>what shit on the locking lugs?
Dirt, most likely,

>one of the best parts about the AR is how sealed it is, which makes something getting on the lugs very unlikely
see above

>>34260729
I want you to know that you are the only one getting angry here, relax

>>34260729
/arg/ is a cesspool

>>34260729
dude, calm down.
its fine if you like forward assists, i like to put useless shit on my rifles for "aesthetic" purposes too, its fine.

>>34260734
so if all of this is stupidly unlikely, and in the event you did have the occasion to use your assist, why...not use it, if all of your scenarios require stupidly unlikely circumstances?

on more than one occasion i've had to use mine, and none of them resulted in any fiascos and none involved dirt or foreign matter at all, but dry carriers and wonky followers in the magazines.

it's quick, it's convenient, and it doesn't hurt anything in any realistic scenario. so what's the issue, exactly?

>>34260729
i'd give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but it was disappointing to see them say that about the assist

>>34260777
>so if all of this is stupidly unlikely, and in the event you did have the occasion to use your assist, why...not use it, if all of your scenarios require stupidly unlikely circumstances?
Because unless I'm dumping hundreds of rounds at the range in quick succession and getting the carrier nuclear hot I can just push on the carrier itself for the exact same effect. In the case that I am dumping hundreds of rounds I would rather just clear the gun, even if it is a magazine issue as stated above I'd again clear the gun and put the mag aside.

Forward assists create an annoying problem for me in that it makes the gun wider and harder to store in certain places like under a seat, if the only utility I get out of it is for doing dumb stuff at the range I'd rather not have it.

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>>34260749
Not an argument, git gud.
>>34260766
And this thread is worse than any /arg/ thread that wasn't made by Giddy, Fluffy, or Orangecat. Really jiggles the legumes.
>>34260775
Not an argument, git gud.
>>34260777
They lost me the around halfway through their first "Rethinking the AR" entry, shit's just outright painful.

>>34260798
but the assist is quicker, more convenient, and will always be safe to touch no matter what. and i hope your rifle doesn't have a shell deflector because that stick out just as much as an assist. you may be content with completely breaking down your rifle and checking for chamber fouling every time you have a failure to properly feed, but that's something just pressing a little button with your thumb will solve 99% of the time.

your complaints against the assist seem entirely circumstantial to your own personal storage concerns than anything else.

>>34260840
>but the assist is quicker, more convenient,
Not really, they're both essentially in the same location.

> and i hope your rifle doesn't have a shell deflector because that stick out just as much as an assist.

It's actually not quite as much.

>you may be content with completely breaking down your rifle and checking for chamber fouling every time you have a failure to properly feed,
Again nice strawman but pulling the CH and peeking at the chamber hardly takes any time.

>your complaints against the assist seem entirely circumstantial to your own personal storage concerns than anything else.
And the merits of the assist are only in convenience at the range. Storage concerns take priority for me.

>>34260867
not really, one requires you to completely relocate your hand while the other just requires you to move your thumb. not exactly what i'd call the same location.

it's off by a few mms, but if you're having trouble with the assist in storage there is no reason the shell deflector wouldn't give you issue either.

that wouldn't really give you a full picture of the chamber, and we're talking about obscure obstructions, so i figured we'd want to take the whole thing into account. what takes even less time than pulling your charging handle and looking at the chamber would be to tap the assist.

i've already outlined why an assist could be convenient at the range, it's quicker and more ergonomic than your carrier press method, i mean why should we use thirty round magazines at the range if we're just shooting leisurely. some people could also be doing speed drills or three-gun, and the speed of using the assist can be a real boon in the event it's needed.

just say you don't like it because it goes against your storage wants, it's by far the most genuine element presented, but i would still highly suggest getting a slabside receiver because of the mentioned shell deflector if you're actually wanting to capitalize on that.

This is an extremely low-quality /arg/. Even by /arg/ standards.

>>34260922
to be fair the OP made it destined to be a magnet for fuddlore, autism, and shitposting

>>34260918
>not really, one requires you to completely relocate your hand while the other just requires you to move your thumb. not exactly what i'd call the same location.
Either way it's not ruining my day, I'm not sweating +/- a second.

>it's off by a few mms, but if you're having trouble with the assist in storage there is no reason the shell deflector wouldn't give you issue either.
Well for the spot where I wanted to put it it worked out. Don't know what to tell you.

>that wouldn't really give you a full picture of the chamber
Plenty fine for my purposes.

>i've already outlined why an assist could be convenient at the range, it's quicker and more ergonomic than your carrier press method, i mean why should we use thirty round magazines at the range if we're just shooting leisurely

Good point, that's why for range use I just go with whatever mags I can get for cheap, 30 round or not.

>just say you don't like it because it goes against your storage wants,

I'm pretty sure I already did that.

>>34260947
okay, but please do try to understand that there are plenty of people who don't have all day to fart around at the range and most don't take issue with the limited inconvenience the assist may impose on storage. for them the assist either comes in handy or, at worst, does nothing to harm their rifle or shooting experience while sitting idly by to be used should something call for it.

>>34260968
How exactly am I farting around at the range all day?

Losing like 3 seconds to clear a stoppage that happens every few thousands rounds is really not killing my weekends.

>>34260981
we've already discussed why some people would value speed and convenience.

once again, your needs and wants don't exactly correlate with those of others, and plenty could make good use of an assist, range or otherwise.

>>34258224
iron sites batteries never run out
I find iron sites easier to use anyway

>>34261035
>iron sites batteries never run out
So get an optic with an etched reticle

>>34258483
iron sites are damn near indestructible

>>34258224
And what do you do when your optics fail OP? Hip fire until the cows come home?

A backup rear sight is what, an ounce or less? Have you tried not being such a fucking weakling? It's better to have it and not need it.

>>34261053
well t b h if you were in a situation that would require shooting immediately after an optic failing you probably would be better either shooting through the dead tube or hip firing rather than taking time to set up your irons. jigaboos charging in the night and all that.

real nigga mode is having your optic and then having a second zeroed optic in a secure container

>>34261081
It's better to not have it if you will never use it. Which you won't, because a decent red dot isn't going to fucking break.

>>34261251
Better drop that IFAK, it's so unlikely you're gonna use it after all.

>>34258224
I have a fixed fsp, so nothing to be done about that, I also happen to like absolute co-witness. My buis weighs maybe 7oz, so it's really not a problem.

>>34261266
Not a fair comparison at all. I've been injured many times in all my years. Never once broke my optics.

>>34261275
>Not a fair comparison at all.
Okay, fair enough. Still though what are you losing be having a tiny flip up on your rifle? It's not like it's heavy or intrusive.

>>34260609
If it's a hand made sight then probably, yeah.

Or a cheap Chinese plastic set of BUIS.

The point is that any idiot with enough time can zero them with a hand file or some cheap tools from their garage and in total it comes nowhere near the price of an optic.
And, as kommandos have pointed out many a well angered and mostly drunk time, there are VERY few things that you can immediately improve just by buying an accessory, and the amount you spent on the accessory could have been spent on ammo to train with, which would have made you much better than the accessory did.

>>34260709
>>34260729
>>34260749

Magnifier shill anon here (msd will know who I am). As much as I have disagreed with msd before he's completely in the right here and even tastefully applying disdain for newfaggotry.

The ar15 has a lot more friction and sources of friction upon chambering than other guns like an ak for instance. I would argue that a gun like an ak (or many others) needs forward assistance less than the ar15 would. Trying to argue that a thumb sized scallop in the bcg is more readily useful than a conveniently placed button that provides more in line force than your thumb is capable of is silly. It's like carrying a 1911 on half cock rather than just using a da pistol.

So, now that we've established that FAs are as useful as a non-STEM degree, what does k think of my plan to just remove it and plug it with a rubber stopper?

>>34260306
This

>>34263494
This, milsurpgoatfucker is an obnoxious cunt but I fully condone the sheer abuse he hurls at people stupid enough to not comprehend something as simple in function and use as the AR15 forward assist

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>>34259303
>"lol"
>"friendo"
>one sentence double line break
>no gun pics
Please kindly return to reddit faggot.

>>34264049
This is decent bait /10

>>34258362
I meant useful

i prefer shooting with irons to scopes desu

any magnification under 4x is not even worth using

>>34258224
What if your batteries die? or what if you drop your rifle and it smashes the optic?

>>34266280
What if you're gay?

>>34266296
Then you join the Navy

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>>34259713

>Fell for the "AKs are less accurate" meme

>>34266387
This 5.45 AKs are tack drivers out too 600 m w/ irons

when there is a tritium illuminated optic that isn't super expensive and is good in all light conditions and use with NVG and laser.

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>>34263494
Love you bb, it's all (mostly) just drunken rageposting. <3
>>34264168
At least buy me dinner before riding my dick.
>>34261274
Fixed front + folding rear is GOAT irons setup, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

>>34266519
>only good for 12 years
>viable choice to replace irons, which are good forever
Irradiated fags leave! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>34266626
make the vial easily changed out by the user. though the Department of Energy might take issue with this. Since they ban all trivial uses of radioactive materials. which prohibits the sale of tritium vials unless they are sealed with in a completed product.

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Honestly tho, are offset sights really the best option to wanting a high power scope AND have the ability to fight up close if necessary? The idea of holding the rifle at a 45 degree angle just seems too stupid to be viable.

>>34258849
>>34258831
>>34258779
>>34258537
What the fuck are any of these malfunctions? Your camera angles suck.

I've never had a malf that required the use of the FA. Just because you buy low quality AR's that have weird malfunctions doesn't make the FA necessary. The majority of the time the use of the FA would only make things worse.

>>34258224
By the time you find me in your scope Ur dead, under 300 yards.Keep trying OP

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>>34268237
>Your camera angles suck.
No, you're just a blind cumstain that can't see a BCG not in battery.
>AR's that have weird malfunctions
Wew, a round not fully leaving the mag and causing a carrier hangup is weird?
>The majority of the time the use of the FA would only make things worse.
Thanks for the confirmation that you are yet another slack-jawed inbred spewing his stupidity in this cesspit of a thread. You may kill yourself now.

But not before you post your super duper high-quality AR, of course. Impress me, anon. :^

I just don't like optics
I've been using irons too long

>>34258283
I agree, it will never be detrimental to have a pair of magpul mbus buis mounted. Also the triangle gas block has an advantage over most lopro gas blocks in and that it uses taper pins instead of set screws. desu famlam my fav lopro block is just a triangle block that's been milled down like on IV8888's build.

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>>34268378
> fully leaving the mag and causing a carrier hangup is weird?
Yes, and could easily be solved by quickly taking the magazine out, rather than checking the ejection port to see which particular malfunction you have and whether to use your FA. It's a useless addition that just causes more problems than it solves.

>>34258849
This looks like a double feed to me, but I can't tell due to the shitty angle. Maybe you're so retarded that holding a camera straight is difficult?

> another slack-jawed inbred spewing his stupidity in this cesspit of a thread
Wow, you're really utilizing your brains full potential to come up with this insult soup.

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>>34268460
>Yes, and could easily be solved by quickly taking the magazine out
And lose a round and go through all that shit? Nah, I'll just press the FA, thanks. :^
> rather than checking the ejection port to see which particular malfunction you have and whether to use your FA.
I hit the FA first thing, because that solved the issue immediately and because I'm not a complete dumbfuck who has no idea how ARs or FAs work. Can't say the same for you, sadly. </3
> It's a useless addition that just causes more problems than it solves.

If you keep spewing clueless memes, maybe they'll come true one day anont (spoiler: they won't, you're life is a lie and you would be best served just ending it all right here and now. Do it).
>This looks like a double feed to me
It isn't, but you're stupid, so we'll just let that slide.
>Maybe you're so retarded that holding a camera straight is difficult?
Nah, you're just blind. And stupid. Did I mention the stupid part already? Doesn't hurt to be thorough either way.

Hey, post your AR. No more (you)s after this if you can't put up!

>>34268237
> buy low quality AR's
Those are blatantly builds are you fucking stupid? Do you know anyone who offers block 2 and A1 clones?

>>34268587
> are you fucking stupid?
Someone who doesn't know how FAs work or how to use them correctly is by definition stupid, so your question is redundant.