Is stopping power a myth or is there a little truth to how big

Its not a myth, its just buried under a morass of marketing, memes, fuddlaw and other bullshit

>>34232897
K=1/2M•V^2

This means that the only thing a bigger bullet will do is decrease magazine size compared to a smaller bullet going faster.

A huge bullet going the same speed as, say, 5.7x28 would generate a lot more kinetic energy and thus deliver a worse wound cavity (bullet geometry not withstanding)

But.
Almost all pistol calibers suck ads one way or another, so "stopping power" is inconsequential.

KE is the real meme

>>34232908

Either back that assertion up with some facts or get the fuck off of /k/ summer noguns mother fucker

>>34232916
Read the Wikipedia article.

It's a (slang, almost) word for a rounds "ability" (barrel length and powder combination as well as bullet type notwithstanding) to "stop someone instantly"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

And again.
Blood loss=death
Bigger non-permanent wound cavity=more blood loss
More blood loss=quicker death
Smaller bullet going faster=bigger NPWC=better "stopping power"

It's bullshit, but "scientific" bullshit.

>>34232916
Where do you want me to start?
>Marketing- no one wants to admit their product is anything but the best
>Memes- no one wants to admit the product they bought is shit
>Fuddlaw- made up by people who shoot paper targets
>Bullshit- the world runs on it

People like me who just spend time on active deployments, being shot at, shooting at people and otherwise running around in godforsaken medieval shitholes like Afghanistan for multiple tours with some Iraq tours thrown in for variety, we see some weird shit and basically it comes down to a mix of shot placement and the ability of the round to deliver as much of its energy to some meat bits that matter.
>I have shot someone once with the 'much maligned' 9mm ball, they died instantly.
>I've seen someone take multiple hits to the torso with 556 and run 500m down the side of a mountain because they where full of meth
>I've see someone take one shot with 556 to the torso and just fell over dead
>I kicked someone in the head and reduced them to a vegetative state
>I've seen big rounds from something like a .50BMG completely sail through someone from torso to arsehole and not expand at all, other times they lop off limbs and heads. But in all cases they where deader than a doornail

Ballistics are a weird thing.
A small projectile somewhere vital = dead
A small projectile somewhere non-vital = inconvenience/incapacitation
A large projectile somewhere vital = dead
A large projectile somewhere non-vital= incapacitation
A huge projectile anywhere = dead

So you little cunt, how do you define 'stopping'?
For me, if they're incapacitated and unable to conduct offensive actions, they're out of the stupid game with stupid prizes.

>>34232897
is a 155mm howitzer solid brass FMJ projectile more likely to achieve a one shot drop on a human than a .22 short?

>>34232926
Nigga wut

How does a non-permanent wound cavity add anything to blood loss since it's not permanent?

>>34232897
Got hit by both 9mm and .45 .

Let me tell you if get hit, you're going to flinch and recoil regardless of what it is. Any shots that the target shoots off won't be accurate or even controlled.

If you can empty 12 rounds of 9mm in quick succession then stopping power doesn't matter.

The one exception to this might be people high on a jihadi cocktail (a drug mix of steroids, morphine & ketamine) like the taliban who would happily soak up 5.56 and will come at you pumped up, not able to feel a thing and mad as rabies.

>>34232994
i don't think you get how violent temporary cavitation is.

rule of thumb is basically
>all blood vessels in the temp cavity are ruptured
>all bones in the temp cavity will suffer a fracture.

>>34233076
>all bones in the temp cavity will suffer a fracture.

Citation needed, mainly because I really want to read more detailed info about this whole thing.

>>34232965
Why did you kick them in the noggin?

>>34232897
My former friend once shot me with 45.
I stopped, turned around, and beat his ass.

>>34233644
He didn't. He's making shit up because he's a larping faggot.

>>34232897
luck comes into it
and some nigs just will not take the fall

>>34232897

I'm sure they're is some reasoning behind it, but what really matters in a defensive scenario is shot placement and the ability to get followup shots rapidly and accurately on target.

If stoppen powa interferes with the other two then don't focus on it as a means of achieving self defence.

>>34232965
>Stupid games
>Stupid prizes
Larp harder

>>34232994
Imagine a block of flesh. Then open a cavity at high velocities, and because of the non-permanacy it slaps closed. Every inch of that cavity (read:surface area) is exposed ruptured blood vessels. The force of it slapping closed again will spurt blood out of every one of those vessels (more surface area=more vessels). As you bleed slowly after that, the more exposed ruptured vessels, the faster the blood loss. So, the question is "how do I get the biggest NPWC?"

>>34232897

Shows exactly that data.

Now, in practice, its a lot more sloppy, as there are a lot of variables.
>>34232965 while IDK how true every facet of this post is, it showcases the variance of situations and how many different outcomes can come from shooting someone. Heuristics dictate that by skewing the most variables towards a favourable outcome, you can increase the odds overall.

If you want stopping power use a musket

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>>34232897
9MM FAGS ETERNALLY BTFO

>>34232897
>>34233018

Below about 500 ft-lbs (on impact, not at the muzzle) it has temporary wound cavity effects but they're not significant enough for a human size target.

Depending on the scenario someone could get shot and be like "uggh, what was that" if it doesn't disable anything inside them. But the shock value can also put someone down who isn't hardened, just because its so intense and unusual (and that feeling that makes it hard to breathe after you stub your toe hard).

The larger the caliber (ie, .45) the harder it is to overcome just because it affects so much tissue, but it still doesn't produce much effect outside the impact area/path.

>>34232913
Thats why the 5.7mm is a meme because it actually hits pretty weak due to having the velocity - but not the mass behind it.

So it decelerates quickly. Might be a little more painful just under the skin where it hit, but it wont carry that effect deeper inside - it just penetrates like any other projectile after that.

5.56mm has a 96% one shot stop rate because of the temporary wound cavity it produces deeper inside, since its still going high velocity even after a couple inches of penetration.

Whether the temporary wound cavity will cause real damage or not (tissues are flexible) it will hit all of those nerves inbetween and it'll knock the wind out of you.

Those Talibanners would get affected by this too. But they'd get right back up.

> KE certainly explains this, but this is why its doing what its doing. Has more to do with where the damage is occurring.

TL;DR:
The only pistol rounds that have this extra effect are
> .357 magnum or 10mm auto from a decent size barrel (4" plus)
> .44 magnum
> and maybe 7.62 Tokarev (within spitting range).

.410 shot shells may do it too, they have about 700ft-lb and the multiple projectiles spread the energy out. But the energy absorbtion is still going to be superficial since I dont believe any of that will penetrate more than 6 inches.

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>>34233936

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>>34232897
it's an ambiguous term for a physiological effect that is a result of several fluid factors. Bullets do not come with an intrinsic measurable "stoppin' powa" figure. The amount of stoppage a pistol round can generate from wounds outside of the CNS is minimal to moderate until you get into the serious rounds like .44 magnum. Things like hydrostatic shock are misappropriated marketing for bullet manufacturers and only apply when you get into rifle ballistics. There is no conclusive evidence that a .45 Federal hydro-shok actually generates shock, but a .308 demonstrably does. A 22.lr from a lever-action rifle also can be said to have less stopping power than a 45-70 govt' from a similar rifle model.

For physical stops, the round should either cause significant damage to a vital kineseological structure (like the pelvis), impair a vital function like respiration, cause an immediate and severe drop in blood pressure that contributes to sudden loss of consciousness, or damage the ability for nerves to carry signals to areas of the body. Bullets do not carry enough kinetic energy to physically repel a body in motion but they can break the structures that allow for motion. That is where the "myth" starts, typically with 45ACP.

The other half of stopping power is psychological, which is completely unquantifiable and varies between individuals. Some people do not like getting shot at, and some people are Marines.

theres an anon on here who got shot in the face by some idiots noob gf at the range, it was a .22lr. he walked himself over to the bathroom to inspect his wounds before passing out after a few minutes. i doubt if it was a 9mm or 45 hed be around to tell the story

stopping power is not a meme, or everyone would use .17 caliber for mega capacity

>>34234234
>.357 magnum or 10mm auto from a decent size barrel (4" plus)
It's more like 5.2" for .357 mag and 4.8" for 10mm. Splitting hairs maybe but you'll find a very poor selection of barrels between 4.8" and 5.9", and an extra two inches of barrel is a lot harder to carry than some people COUGH NO GUNS COUGH on this board might think.

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>>34234220

>>34236346
This is an interesting read anon, showing that there's more to handgun penetration than "muh 12 inches".
Can you post the source?

>>34236346
>180 grain
theres their problem. 40 is best in 165, 180 is the worst and weakest load

that said, puffy down jackets are a hell of a body armor and most pistol rounds under 1,000 fps would have trouble getting through

>>34234035
Dammit, I wanted to hear "the story "

>>34236346

>WAAAH .45 SUCKS DICK!

lmao'ing rn

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>>34232965
Reading this was physically painful
Larp harder you retarded preteen edgemeister.

>>34236426
Not sure. Someone posted this in a thread a week or two ago.

However, it says,'FBI Defensive Systems Unit Ballistic Research Facility FBI Academy.pdf"


If you googled that you might come up with something.

>>34236346
The 180gr rounds are basically 9mm's. It looks like a few didn't even expand. What's more interesting is that three of them were ambushed with a .45 but barely injured and that it took 16 rounds of .223 to stop him. There are a lot of unknowns in that account, like if fire was returned from inside the cruisers and if they were ever hit when they got out of the vehicles.

Who the fuck only shoots one fucking bullet? One shot stop is total horse shit.

You're not Johnny depp from the pirate film...you can have more than one fucking bullet.

Here's what's important...really honestly important. Get a reliable well made gun and find a reliable well made brand of bullets. I'd take a ruger sr22 with cci stingers over a Jimenez in 9mm with
failure prone Wal-Mart cheapo shit.

Reliable gun and reliable ammo. That's what you want. You never have to carry just ONE BULLET.

TL;DR caliber counts and capacity is a concern but getting reliable shit is way more important.

>>34236346

"The subject had a trace amount of Marihuana in his system" - Marihuana, confirmed for the devil's weed.

>>34232913
I would say that kinetic energy is not directly proportional to the damage caused by a wound. The science behind that is much more complicated i imagine. Also the bullet does not generate kinetic energy, it has kinetic energy

>>34233018
>collateral damage doesn't matter
Manlet who can't accurately and rapidly fire .40 detected, get yourself a gripmaster
>>34232913
This is fudd because a larger caliber generally has more powder as well
If a bigger bullet offered zero advantage then you mind as well have everybody carrying .25 acp

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Hard data on stuff like incapacitation always shits on 9mm. Duty fags just don't want to admit that moving away from .45 in favor of wonder 9s was a mistake

>>34233644
>>34236494
I've seen a Hadji take a boot to the head. Had him in restraints, sitting on his ass. My squad leader wanted information from him and had the terp ask some questions. The Hadji spit on my SL instead of answering. So my squad leader reared back and kicked that fucker right in the head. Don't think it "vegetable stated" him, but it was a hell of a kick to the noggin.

>>34236754
>moving away from 45
Not too many agencies ever adopted the 45 because the guns were usually oversized and uncomfortable for babby hands. For most agencies it was 38/357 -> 9mm -> 40 -> 9mm

>>34236786
Moral of the story.
>Don't spit on people or you will get kicked in the head.

10mm when

>>34236754
It is case size you stupid fuck.
The thing that matters is the ratio of bullet size to speed.
.45 goes roughly 850-900 fps, 1000 or slightly more with super loads.

You can achieve a shitload more speed for a smaller bullet, thus giving us the same size non permanent cavity but with more rounds and less recoil, meaning you can send more of said cavity size to the target easier.

If you can't go for quality, go for quantity.

Also, fudd is not a statement on the knowledge of a firearm owner but rather the political leanings of a firearm owner.
An idiot who supports waiting periods and AWBs is a fudd. Someone who doesn't necessarily know what they're talking about (like you, for instance) is not a fudd, but a simpleton.
>>34235600
This is also a good explanation for those who don't like science and just want a third grade "this is why".

>>34236346
More justification to switch to 10mm with NORMA loadings