Marines’ Cold Weather Gear Faces Overhaul After Poor Showing

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>>34024976
All the mexicans in the Corps can't handle the cold. Also, our gear is shit.

>>34024976
Marine here. 0311 once upon a time.

What cold weather gear? They don't issue shit. Go to Bridgeport during winter and hump 80 pounds of gear for 50 miles in 3 or 4 days. All I had was a sweatshirt and a beanie.

Malnutrition, I lost like 10 pounds. Dudes got mountain sickness. We had about a 20% casualty rating. Was eating the full 3 day MRE and still starving, I even ate the nasty ones. Sweaty boots turn to ice, frostbite.

Grown ass men can cry. I don't think I did, but God damnit I felt misery.

>>34025039
A good post on /k/?

I must be dreaming.

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>>34025467
have a pinch

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>>34024976
>knee deep snow
>not wearing snowshoes or skies.
>exposed face
>no polarized goggles

I bet they didn't have sleds to put most of their shit on either.

>>34026236
>UCP in snow

It's like they want to get shot

>>34026269
at least we will be warm, dry, and mobile. while the muhreen in his snow camo shell is cold, wet, and stuck.

>>34024976
my chrystal ball is telling me that sandland gear is more important in the decades to come

>>34024976
yeah whatever, that's why you train, to discover your limits and what you need to improve

but why do they have to come here to learn that, can't they just to go a US northern state? I thought murricans train in Alaska.

>>34026302
Hey Petain, what you planning for? Another Trench War?

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>>34024976
Better we find out now than in wartime. Maybe would could license produce whatever the Scandinavians are using.

>>34026501
Army has great cold weather gear, in Fort Wainwright, and Fort Drum.

>>34026522
Right. Probably a budget thing then. Navy doesn't like spending money on ground troops.

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why can't muhreens into PCU?

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*blocks your path*

>>34025039

This.

Had to do some combined arms stuff with Army at Fort Sill. Our cold weather gear was what ever we bought and took with us. X-Large panty hose under thermals under sweat pants on bottom.

Dog shit issue boots with silk liners under wool liners under issue socks (lucky I had a pair of boots that were to large so worked decent)

Top was silk thermals under thermals under wool sweater and Korea war era field jacket I bought because it was warmer than anything else and my Dad's old Korean war cold weather cover.

Got stuck with the XO to help out with comms which were a bitch do to poor planning and organization.

We were stuck in a static position for around 5 hours trying to get some form of effective communications figured out. About 12 degrees, 15 to 20 mph winds, and heavy snow flurries.

Went to piss and fell flat on my face. My legs had gone numb. XO starts laughing until I tell him to try to stand. He falls flat on his face. We both are laughing trying to get some flow again and then the pins and needle pain comes rushing in, if pins and needles were the size of knives.

Had to spend another 2 weeks out there, the XO got us a jeep. I was damn lucky to have been with him. Rest of the unit had a much rougher time. Had to start a rotation schedule back to main side to buy better gear.

CO authorized ski jackets and whatever the PX had just to get them through it. When we formed up to get out of there, we looked like a rag bag of limping shit.

If that would have been an actual combat scenario we would have been combat ineffective within the week.

My feet still can't take the cold. Instant pain and muscle atrophy, but at least everyone came out with all of their toes.

Had to do a similar exercise at Fort Carson the next year during winter. We all had non-issue boots, coveralls, headgear, gloves, hand warmers, you name it and it went much better. The USMC does not provide......so you better do it yourself.

>>34024976
would've been fucked in russia

>>34024976
>American marines were crying due to how cold it was.
Why would you dumb assholes live there then? Just nuke it from orbit and be done with it...

>>34024976
>rumours here in Norway that several of the American marines were crying due to how cold it was.
AHAHAHAHA

>>34026269
looks ok against the wooded areas, just a bit too green

>>34026269
Its fine in Norwegian pine forests, alongside Einer and other such shrubs.

>>34028264
Summer is fine. So is spring and fall.
Poorly designed winter gear is far worse than the weather, since you end up freezing at all poorly designed joints.

>>34024976
>Cave men 500 years ago thrived in the north pole wearing deer skins and living in teepees
>The modern US military wear gear worth over $1 million per man but can't spend a week in upstate New York weather without having 50% casualties

Pussies?
Yes.
Retards?
Yes.

US Moron Corpse confirmed for being pusstarded.

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>>34029813
>The modern /k/ poster worth 50 chromosomes thinks cavemen existed 500 years ago

>>34024976
>In Norway without decent winter kit
>Surprised some of them were crying
Its cold beyond belief up there, physically painful and extremely draining

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>>34029905

>thinks cavemen existed 500 years ago

I mean, not in Europe; but.....

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>>34029813
>Calls Marines morons
>Cave men existed 500 years ago

I think you're ass backwards.

>>34029905
>Cavemen didn't exist 500 years ago

Reed a book dumbass, there where primitive stone age people in every continent 500 years ago, there still's some left to. Ever wonder what Bigfoot is? Its a cavern.

>>34029999
Quads will be the only truth I accept. This man is right and checked.

Holy fuck America. Do you not issue winter camo to your fucking grunts? Don't the fucking leafs send 15 year olds into -40 degree weather?
Literally how are you failing the Arctic shit when like 85% of your country has cold winters?

>>34026269
Uhh what part of universal don't you get?

>>34030091
we do, just the marines dont get it.

IT starts out at the budget level.
Then it goes to the mental level "we're marines oorah we dont need it and can just suck dick for warmth no homo"

Then it goes to the leadership level
At this level they understand they're sucking, but heaven forbid the one marine smart to bring a fleece will get to wear it because he will be out of uniform and nco corp shitheads will shit down that poor guys throat.

The army's ecws 7 level system works. The only thing it needs added is some wool socks and the mickey mouse boots. I was at FT Carson and shit is legit, but the guys in alaska and drum get some better shit that are more suited for the weather.

>>34030091
>marines
The navy would rather spend that money on more ships.

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I'd train them but I'm kinda busy right now.

>>34024976
>>VAERNES GARRISON, Norway — A hump through the snow-covered sub-freezing moonscape of the Arctic is the wrong time to find out your boots won’t stay latched into your skis.
>>“That was an emotional experience for many people,” said 1st Lt. Sean Gil, commanding officer of Bravo Company’s 3rd Platoon. “The unit had just gotten off of almost continuous field operations, suffering because of, maybe, certain shortcomings in the gear, and they felt like taking it out on the evaluators. I would say we definitely had feedback for them.”
>so this is the power of the US military's equipment, huh? "Tested in california, why doesn't it work in northern europe?"
>rumours here in Norway that several of the American marines were crying due to how cold it was.

Speaking as some one who has actually been to Bridgeport in the winter. The only real thing that needs replacement and which is in the process of being replaced is the extreme cold weather boot, it's the same design we've been using since the 50's and it a massive piece of dogshit.

>>34030400
i still have my ECW army issue boots. solid black leather 12 inches high. goretex lined and with a goretex booty.

they are very good boots. issued them for my first Iraq deployment, for some reason.

>>34030195
Since youre retarded, refer to OP's pic. The marines have been issuing snow marpat to their guys for years for deployment.

its the other shit thats not waterproof or warm thats the issue. When you have been fighting a war in the desert for 16 years you dont really care about winter gear.

>>34030400
>some one who has actually been to Bridgeport

I'm the first guy who mentioned Bridgeport. Are you inferring I wasn't. I was, lower base camp, shitty chow, group showers, the whole 9 clicks.

>>34026562
Thats definitely not good enough for norway. It was barely good enough for Afghanistan.

Not pictured: Shit as mickey mouse boots older than your grandpa that your grandpa probably wore that are still being used.

The army didnt do well either, at least the marines gave their dudes some shit that was white.

>>34030498
>>34030400

No, I only read the OP before responding. I was inferring that I had experience vise a bunch of arm chair commandos who haven't been forced to hike through the Sierras with 80lbs of gear in the dead of winter. As a fellow Bridgeport survivor I am sure you understand the pain.

>going up Dogbone to setup up re-trans
>carrying 4 different radios and 8 batteries

My back and shoulders still hurt.

>>34030437
When I say ECW boot, I mean the white, felt lined rubber monstrosity that completely destroyed my feet.

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>>34030541
we have white mickey mouse boots in the army.

aircrews have a nomex cold weather boot. good to minus 40. thought not good for walking around in.

military has good cold weather gear. they just suck ass as issuing it out and authorizing wear.

>>34025039
>>34030400
I went to Bridgeport in the late summer and it was still cold some nights. Like 20s and windy as fuck. Then sure enough as soon as 0700 rolls around and the sun still isn't all the way up and temperature is still below 35 everyone better take off all those fuckin grid fleeces and beanies.

It's not even about having the gear so much as it is about not even being able to use the shit without someone trying to be muh hard corps muhreens. I can't imagine being under that chain of command in a winter season.

>>34026582
My dood with the valnekis!

>>34030751
We we're supposed to take our beanies off at 9am when I went. I went twice. I just loosened my chin strap and still hiked with it under my Kevlar.

My whole platoon grew mustaches and I remember Gunny telling all of us on the last day we better shave our "shitstaches".

Y'all mother fuckers kill the goat too?

>>34026652
>The USMC does not provide

this is just a good life lesson all together

>>34024976
Well the snow MarPat doesn't work, better just give me some since it's useless.

>>34026522
Wait, Ft. Drum winters are supposed to be hardcore??
>Oh I am laffin from just below the Presidential Range!

>>34030861
lots of lake effect snow.

lots of snow.

>>34030900
Wah.

>>34030913
131 inches of snow, average, per winter.

>>34024976
>rumours here in Norway that several of the American marines were crying due to how cold it was.

they sure as hell weren't from Michigan or Minnesota, that's for fucking sure

>>34030985
as hell weren't from Michigan or Minnesota, that's for fucking sure

Sorry dog, I am from Montana and yeah, sure it gets fucking cold but running out to your heated car from your heated house is absolutely nothing compared to consistently living in the out doors let alone trying to conduct actual operations in that weather.

>>34031100
>is absolutely nothing compared to consistently living in the out doors let alone trying to conduct actual operations in that weather.

I live on a ranch bruh

>Snowmen are laughing at us because of the Marines
I do wonder if you people would melt if you came south of the Mason-Dixon line.

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>>34031250

>>34026501
>dat MG3

muh dick

>>34031261
Accurate.

>>34030360
I spit on your ancestors and take a shit on your children. I drink your milkshake and slap your hoe in the ass as he passes by, he likes it.

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>>34030360
in case you're wondering why you spend all your time posting stuff on 4chan it's for moments like these, I remember you

>>34030934
We just lost snowpack in the high elevations like last week.

>>34031250
As a snowman who have spent quite some time in the south, yes.
Afghanistan was pure hell, the ass sweat was unreal.

>>34031443
absolutley gorgeous.

i live in southern California our beaches are littered, muddy and filled with white trash

after that is miles of desert

>>34033376
White trash as in people, or actual trash? I spent 6 months in SD, and pretty sure i saw a lot of both

Why don't they get bunny boots? Everyone else wears them.

>>34026303
Because WWIII won't be fought in Alaska

>be me
>be airborne infantree
>get to first unit in Alaska, "hey anon youre going to airborne refresher for next weeks jump"
>next weeks jump: arctic circle, deadhorse
>inside plane, doors open, instaneously lungs freeze
>land on dropzone, windy as fuck and pure pain of the face and lungs
>-60f wind chill, temp like -45f
>crawl through a desolate landscape of fuck and snow with bogus ass snowshoes to our eventual relief vehicles
>oh dearest me, never again, please
>do it 2 more times at later dates

>>34033387
Oh yeah trash as in garbage and trash as in people


You guys like fat girls in bikinis? Cmon down

>>34033814
The point is if you can operate in alaska you can operate in russia or other places in the north

>>34034071
>Go to Alaska on your own and rely on whatever experts you have vs go to Norway and train with snow elves

Britfag army. We had the Marines over with us for a joint exercise in Cape Wrath in Scotland. It's a brutal, brutal area and I have never seen so many grown men cry.

Your guys came over here with literally nothing suitable. I think the hey we're wearing jungle boots ffs.

They dropped like flies. We couldn't believe how badly equipped they were. Thought it was a one off, but reading this, clearly not.

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>>34034244
I'm going there next month, is it worse than Garelochhead and Brecon?
I remember these vile creatures making Garelochhead a nightmare

>>34034276

If you're going out on the ground to train and not some remf or stuck in an ops room doing zero, then standby because it's horrendous, the area itself is just shit. Although in summer it can be ok.

>>34034276
midges aren't even bad. why do americucks complain? just get used to them.

>>34034309

Smidgeup.com - better and safer than DEET.

>>34034308
I'm a STAB being tacked onto regular inf, guess I should just kill myself now

>>34024976
>Country located immediately south of Canada who you are good allies with and constantly do joint operations and training exercises with
Can't they just ask Canada for some winter gear?

Here's an anecdote for you all. Mind, this told to me third-hand so detail might have been fuzzied.

>joint winter exercise/competition in northern sweden, near the Swedish-Norwegian border
>a lot of operators flown in from different countries
>Swedish Fjälljägare, Norwegian Spesialkommando, Finnish Special Jaeger Company, Navy SEALs, Brittish SAS and German Gebirgsjägers
>early-mid february and thus cold as balls, with temperatures reaching -40c

According to my friend it all went down something like this:
>Day 4 out of two week trek over northern swedish mountains
>Navy SEALs break off and head home after several close shaves with frostbite. Loudly proclaims that swedes are crazy as balls even planning a trek like this
>Day 8 out of two week trek
>German Gebirgsjägers drop out due to critical equipment malfunctions
>Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian and Brittish units essentially fight mock battles and run disruption on each other the rest of the trek to determine who's top snow dog
>after a grueling slog SAS eventually claims victory by sheer bloodymindedness with the swedes, finns and norwegians in second, third and fourth place

>>34034433
>according to my friend

seems totally legit

>>34034458
Like i said, just a funny anecdote. I know there was a big arctic exercise back in the early 00's with some outside forces flown in but i don't know any details.
Might have happened, might not have.

>>34034433
The Swedish and Finnish governments would not sign off on that, especially when suitable terrain and areas are in Norway with the added bonus of them being in NATO.

The only SAS troop equipped or trained for that sort of thing were a bit busy in the early 2000s, as were the USN.

>>34034433

The most likely UK forces on these kinds of multinational exercises are the Royal Marines, not the SAS. Indeed, they appear to be helping to train the USMC, it isn't just the Norwegians training the Americans.

>The Norwegian military is hosting BSRF Marines and sailors at the Arctic Training Center North while the U.K. Royal Commando mountain leaders are teaching them how to survive and operate tactically in extreme environments.
>http://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/652636/bsrf-marines-put-survival-skills-to-the-test-in-norway/

>>34029813
>Cave men 500 years ago thrived in the north pole wearing deer skins and living in teepees

Behold American education!

>>34026562
Marines can't even put their hands in their pockets. I can hear their SNCOs from here.

>THIS AIN'T FUCKING COLD! YOU TAKE YOUR GOD DAMN HANDS OUT OF YOUR FUCKING POCKETS AND ACT LIKE YOU WANNA BE HERE DEVIL! HAVE SOME FUCUKING PROFESSIONAL MILITARY BEARING AND SUCK IT UP!

Damn... I wonder how soldiers did it back then during the battle of the bulge or eastern front. They had barely any gear for the cold. They just sucked it up and froze

>>34038595
And then we spend hundreds of billions a year to provide health care to "vets" that injured themselves doing peacetime bullshit

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I mean you learn to make do Just like at the Frozen Chosin

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>>34024976
lacrimal stenosis due to cold and a lack of acclimation to Cold weather from all the Southerners etc..

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>>34029813
>cave men.
>500 years ago.
>Marines being retarded.
Holy fuck this is beyond Common Core, this is some Baptist Homeschooling teir retardation.

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>>34029999
>Quads of Truth
Checked, /k/ eternally BTFO.

>be in the green weenie club
>still have bad gear due to being conus post so who cares
>navy kindly gives us these giant ass black winter jackets
>wear them for a few days
>some grumpy DI gunny admin fag says no you cant wear that against regs
>collects them all from us all on post
>some navy XO cmmdr loses his shit
>some drama with commanders and dick waving
>nothing resolved still cold

Fucking DIs

Leaf here so what your saying is the US couldn't invade Canada? All we have to do is turn off our super secret space heaters let Canada cool down to -50°C and chill and drink hot chocolate and watch hockey?

>>34042348
regulations must be adhered too
new gear must never be issued and must be hoarded
get your hands out your fucking pockets mac.

>>34042354
Kek. Canada is comfy asf up north even if it's around 3C in my house

>>34042361
Kiwi here, what does something below -8C feel like? Worst I've ever felt was painful lungs and genuinely blue lips.

>>34042369
Nekked, casual clothes or Winter clothes?
Nekked it kinda feels like your skin is getting bumpy, dulling out and drying out not fun unless polar dipping. casual same thing wouldn't recommend doing a polar dip. And winter clothed is comfy asf I love hiking for 80-100km is -30 weather. Painful lungs happens when you sprint but you get used to it and blue lips at -8C? Really?

>>34042399
Really, it's pretty much non stop rain and hail where I live. It's strange to think that in just a few generations people can be so succeptable or resistant to the cold.

>>34042426
Ah up here it's very very very dry ever eaten one of those really really crisp apples imagine whenever you breathe in it's like that fucking fantastic 0 pollution I love it only issue is the wendigos and skin walkers issue with living in the forest

I always loved working on the Cold Response exercises. Training German and Dutch armor and arty on how to drive on straight ice, proper deep snow, teaching French and Danish infantry how to use snow-shoes and live in snowcaves, the thankfull eyes of a marine when you hand him some wool clothing, then watch them march of like the Micheline man because they dont understand hwo to dress while on the move vs being stationary, having each nations vehicles going tits-up in a ditch, all the while knowing that somewhere out there, a 4-man recc-team from Norway, Sweden or Finland is watching you take a dump in a snow-mound.
10/10, would do it again

>>34042369
Also a kiwi, I swear to god we have the most depressing weather outside of the UK. Nothing exciting ever happens and there's only ever grey skies.

>>34042489
You dont want exciting, when whites want exciting they think pouring in refugees to bomb shit and sell shitty food is excitment

>>34042489
Bow down to Australian superiority

>>34034193
I fucking love me some snow white elf
>unf

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>>34042715
At least we know how to kill birds mate, fucking big ones at that.

>>34038595
Norwegian here... we cant put our hands in the pockets either lol. Specially not when foreigners are visiting because that would look bad.

>>34024976
>were crying due to how cold it was.
i can believe it cuz i once saw my roommate who was a brother from detroit, crying from the cold.
made him take off his jacket for the memorial day parade, because not everyone was wearing one. i took a picture of him with big fat tears rolling down his face. priceless.

>>34030023
Then how the fuck has no-one found him yet?

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if you haven't lost your toes and your fingers aren't swollen to the size of carrots then you haven't experienced winter warfare.

>>34043699
Because he is the most operator fuck on the face of this planet. Bin laden ain't even close.

>>34043249
And thus my theory that to become a SNCO requires a lobotomy is proven true.

>>34043761
>Swollen fingers
I thought they did the opposite of swoleing, you'll have to excuse my ignorance I am a temperate climate fag.

>>34024976 Standard...
When the Italians came to train in Poland, the training had to e stopped because they couldn't stand the mosquitoes.

>>34026236
I thought marines had better camo than that.

>>34024976
We haven't had to use cold weather gear en masse for 75 years
Why would we put money into that kind of thing?

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>>34026501

>>34034314
DDT is banned in America because it emulates estrogen in the body and makes male genitalia smaller in unborn babies.

shit in plastics does this too.

>>34044118
DDT is what was sprayed on fields. DEET is what is in Off! and other insect repellant sprays.

>>34044127
I thought DDT used to be in OFF too.

DEET is what they put in OFF as a substitute for DDT.

In the US, most enlisted come from the southern states where the weather never even approaches what would be considered 'cold'. So yea it makes sense that our troops can't into winter nearly as well as scandies.

>>34024976
Brown people tend to not like the cold.

Throwing a bunch of Mexicans into the Arctic? Yeah, that will end well.

>>34030360

Thumb over bore means your mom is a whore.

>>34044236
This is an anonymous board anon, you can use racial slurs if you need too.

>>34024976

As a Canadian watching and reading about Americans into winter warfare makes me laugh heartily.

Although, I'm sure Canadians would be equally clueless with desert warfare.

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Leaf here who has trained with a reserve Marine unit from northern states. Most of your kit is better than ours when it comes to weight and layering, it's just your snow shoes and footwear that suck balls. To be honest most Leafs just buy their own kit since our army is very lax on what we can use for winter kit.

Good kit only goes so far though, if you push your troops too hard in those conditions they're going to go down anyways. If your soldiers are not from states that actually get cold they're going to be completely fucked, their bodies are not going to be used to the cold.

>btw the same amount of canadian went down as the marines on the ex I was on, exclusively newfags who had never done a cold weather ex

>>34042369
>-8C
Nigga, I wear a sweater and leather jacket in that weather.
-30? It's not the most pleasant thing in the world but with a decent coat and sweater you're fine, the main thing you're gonna notice is your eyes might start watering a bit if you're out too long but besides that it's really not so bad if you're well dressed.

I will however mention to never breath through your mouth no matter how stuffy your nose is, cold teeth are fucking painful, I'm much rather have a frost covered mustache than cold teeth.

>>34043793
Honestly I'm not sure if they do swell up, but they certainly feel swollen, they're considerably less sensitive, they're stiff, and they become very hard making it feel like they've swollen.

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>>34043793

>>34044258
Well yea everyone knows niggers can't handle cold, but neither can anyone else from the south, that was the only point I was making

>>34033998
Hello fellow Charlie trooper :^)
I too know the pain of Deadhorse Alaska.

>>34026562
Can you Wojak this? It would be perfect.

>>34024976
Marines should stick to actual amphibious operations. Maybe create a specialized unit to fight in Arctic warfare? It's unfortunate these men had to suffer for the brass to realize that not every unit or branch has the ability to deploy everywhere on the planet.

>>34030091
The leafs do send 16 year olds into -40 degree weather
t. Leaf who did it

>>34034330
We only have enough for us CHUM

>>34030400
>>34030437
Having used regular boots in the snow, the first time we got the VB boots I thought they were a godsend. A while later I was watching Fargo (the movie) and the Russian guy is wearing the same boots. They're not really shitty, they're just old as fuck. It also doesn't help that noone in supply knows what size you're supposed to wear "get one size bigger" "get one size smaller." Ohh, and the fact that assholes are always blowing into the vents on the side introducing moisture into the air barrier.

>>34046635
what if you have to do an amphibious operation in the cold anon?
There used to be a permanent marine battalion in the northern part of norway for the longest time but they got rid of it.

People are making too much of a deal out of this. The US Military has been fighting in the desert for 16 years and people are wondering why they completely forgot about winter warfare and then wondering why the Norwegians are better at winter warfare in their own god damn backyard. Ive only ever done desert shit and counter insurgency during the height of GWOT. Of course switching back to a conventional warfare mindset will unearth some issues. Now that some 1st lt complained about shit gear they will get good gear.

>>34048289
Meant to respond to you >>34030627 not army guy

>>34044420
Can confirm, boots think it's a good idea to wear all warming layers on 10k hike and fall out as a heat case in 10° weather

Also, everybody has gear issues, but unit in OP is just a failure of leadership at all levels. Same with any of these 50% casualty stories, and it goes for any environment. If your unit goes to 29 Palms and has 10, 20, 30 heat cases, it's because the entire unit fucking sucks

>>34042489
Come on bro, it aint all bad. Summer times at Xmas is pretty sweet

>>34042715
I will admit the country is beautiful but the animals make it hard to like and the people are insufferable
Hope to transfer to Perth to work as a cop out there