How different would WW2 be if Franco had joined up with the axis?

>>34021560
No different France would have wound up surrendering regardless FUCKING frogs.

no diffrenc, Spain was destroyed by the civil war. they even sent soldiers to the eastern front and they all died rather inconsequentially.

Spain had neither the economy or free troops to openly support the Germans.

If they mobilized a lot of troops and sent them out of the country. The communists would have probably started the civil war up again.

>>34021579
>inconsequentially
Hey m8, they fought very well desu

Hitler was constantly pressuring Franco to get involved in the war, and Franco was somehow able to resist him. At some point, when Franco was under a lot of pressure, the US decided to send him a subtle message to convince him not to. The US ambassador to Spain was recalled to Washington for a routine couple-week visit to check in with the State Department. When the government sent him back to Spain, they flew him to Madrid in a prototype B-29, making sure that the Spanish got a good look at it while it was there. The message was obvious: if you'd rather not see a whole lot more of these, stay out of the war. Franco took the hint.

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>>34021568
You idiot were talking Spain not France.

>>34021560
Not very, seeing how Portugal would side with the allies and then the US can land troops in Iberia in 1942.

>>34021560
Because he wasn't stupid. His country was devastated by their Civil War and before that suffered eternal humiliation by the US-Spanish War. Spain was in no position to join WWII even if they really wanted to. The Blue Division was a token gesture to Hitler with the strict stipulation that they should only fight against Soviet commies. Spain's intelligence services did leak info to Germany but ironically, Operation Mincemeat took advantage of this. When the writing was on the wall, Spain withdrew the Blue Division.

>>34021772
Portugal was also fascist, and remained that way until 1974

>OH NO!! It's France, I'm really scared.

>>34024090
They were more of falangist, and were going to join the Allies, but the British were concerned it would draw Franco into the war.

>>34024090
Franco and Salazar were just really traditional conservatives who weren't partial to edgelord anarchists and commies running around. So they had equally little interest in playing edgy fascist edgelord either, Franco basically told Hitler to fuck off when they met in 1941. Basically, he played Hitler to get support and weapons to beat down the commies with and then wanted no more to do with him.

And Portugal even more so, they've been British allies since the 1300s and had no desire to help edgy Nazis. You're falling into the SJW "everything conservative is faswshist" meme.

>>34024153
You're using the word "edgy" a lot when it didn't apply at the time. Fascism was popular in Europe and considered legitimate, not "edgy" or out of the norm, you idiot.

>>34024158
To a very conservative Catholic man like Francisco Franco, who had mass performed for him every morning of his life before work, fascism was absolutely tasteless and edgy. As soon as the Axis were gonna obviously lose the war he got most of the Falangists out of power. He was for a cute old fashioned society where everyone goes to Church every Sunday and is proud to be Spanish, not radical corporatism and racial crap (he gave all Moroccans who fought for him Spanish citizenship and Spanish diplomats saved a bunch of Jews around Europe too.)

>nobody mentions Hendaye
Franco and Hitler had a meeting. Franco said he'd join if French Morocco was given to him. Hitler refused this offer because he didn't want to cause more trouble with Vichy France. In the end Franco said he'd join at some point in time when he felt like it, which turned out to be never.

If Franco had joined he couldn't have changed much on the Eastern front, but Spain's proximity to Africa and capturing Gibraltar would probably have caused a lot of backpain for the allies.

>>34021560
the axis could have closed of the gate of Herculies and over run Gibraltar
This would have complicated things in the med and might even have led to the fall of Malta and the sues chanal.
peration tourch would probalby have targeted Spain. Spain would not have been able to resist theel andings wihtout major axis aid and would probalby have done an Italy at that point and switch sides.

Overall not much wouldh ave changed and the Axis would still have lost. Just the territories held would have changed

>>34024182
Franco did not like national socialism or faschism. That is true but at the same time he didn't hate it. Consider that the Falanches stayed active long after WWII when Franco could have just crushed them and Hitler was long dead.
Like many Chatholic traditionalists he probalby saw nazis and faschists as misguided but honest and people you can return to the right path or at very least work with.

>>34021560
>How different would WW2 be if Franco had joined up with the axis?

It would have meant that for around 1 or 2 years the whole Iberian peninsula would have been united, Gibraltar taken, Andorra taken and Portugal and Spain at the doorstep of marriage.

It would also meant that Hitler now had a way to block the access to the Mediterranean, but since we all know how the kriegsmarine compared to the RN this wouldn't last.

After that short period of time, the US would have stomped the weak Spanish and Portuguese forces, even easier if somehow Portugal joins with the US, and now that the stagging area is in Spain and Britain, Germany would have to face a D day composed of two fronts at the same time, adding even more pressure and overstretching Germany's forces even more.

After the war, Franco would have gone either AWOL or taken the Hitler/Mussolini route, the republicans would be back but now without opposition and making very similar mistakes, they would easily become a USSR satelite in souther europe extending its influence to France that had already some strong socialist movements back at the time.

Because yes, I highly doubt that the US restoring "democracy" to Spain would have resulted in anything different, just looking at how the world looked at the Spanish civil war(Commies vs conservatives) reflects how much the world didn't understand the whole reason the war started in the first place, and through this lack of understanding they would fail to put the adequate safeguards.

>>34024182
>"Let us be under no illusion. The Jewish spirit, which was responsible for the alliance of large-scale capital with Marxism and was the driving force behind so many anti-Spanish revolutionary agreements, will not be got rid of in a day."
>"We strive to form a single national front against the Judeo-Masonic lodges, against Moscow and the Marxist societies."
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care about Jews.

>>34021560
>>34021579
>>34021612
>>34021676
These

Franco, unlike the other Fascist leaders of Europe wasn't an idiot. He seems to me much more guided by necessity that by ideology. So knowing the condition of Spain and the opposition faced by the axis at the time he made the best choice for his country by staying out of that shitfest.

>>34024244
>unlike the other Fascist leaders of Europe wasn't an idiot.
those in westeren europe where roped in to collaborate once occupied (and the pre-war leadership was often killed before occupation)
those in easteren europe had little choise being stuck betweeen the wolf and the bear
even mouselini wanted to postpone hostilities, grenated he's probably the dumbest of the bunch but even he could see that the war wasn't to his advantage

>>34024266
All I'm saying is that at the time the war could only seem winnable for a complete ideologue like Hitler or Tojo. These are the people that declared war on the largest Naval power and empire on Earth, the largest contiguous country on Earth with a massive population, their former greatest rival (they beat them though so cool), and a country so resource and industry rich they could bank roll a project to literally build the ultimate doomsday device while fighting in two theatres and building the largest Navy in the world 3 times over in three years and still fund the rest of the allies with hundreds of billions in cash and materiel, all at once. They say hindsight is 20/20 but foresight ain't that blind unless your wearing ideology goggles.

>>34024328
declaring war on the USA was a fromality considering the USA was already doing it's best to get involved.
Not declaring would have at best given Hitler an extra year. And most of western europe would have fallen to the reds in that time line. And I'm quite fine with not being occupied for an other 47 years after the germans leaving.