can a soilder ever question orders if he or she feels like it's

>>34019815

sure for about 10 seconds before the officer in charge has him summarily executed

>>34019815
>she
>being in a moral dilemma that doesn't have to do with deciding whether or not to sleep with her NCO
pick one

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>>34019815
>or she

What a fucking retarded question

>>34019815
>if he or she
kys

>>34019815
The military can't order you to commit crimes. No one can.

>>34019815
Yes. He can bring it up the chain of command. If the commander says to do it, then they'll find someone else or make you do it. Most likely the latter.

If you disagree with what you had to do you can bring it up with his superiors when the deed is done.

99.999% of the time it will be seen as a lawful order.

>>34019815
german soilders are allowed to question there orders and some pilots can say no to a bombing if it might cause collateral damage

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>>34019815
>question orders
>BLAM!

>>34019846
>The military can't order you to commit crimes

Of course they can. You can disobey at your own risk.

As >>34019846
Said, it's actually your duty to question illegal orders. More than likely you won't get them though

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>>34019826

>>34019815
Aviators can tell a superior to fuck off if he/she (lol) thinks that the AV won't be able to handle the mission for whatever reason, if the commander makes you then whatever happens falls on them. I don't see why illegal orders would be any different.

If you are 100% that an order is an war crime then you can tell your rightfully tell your NCO to fuck right off, granted that's unlikely to happen so don't even worry about it and if it does happen your NCO is probably going to make you do it forcefully so don't even worry about it.

Now if it's literally every other scenario, someone will tell you to fuck off or they will take up the chain of command were eventually they will tell you to fuck off.

Just do what the fuck your told, they'll get shit for it later. Just focus on getting paid.

>>34019949
And if it's illegal, you'll burn with them.

>>34019821
This isnt Warhammer dude

>>34019961

Lol no you won't, if they forced you to do it and you just say you didn't know it wasn't allowed, they get roasted. Are you even in the military?

>>34019972
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

>Lawrence La Croix, a squad leader in Charlie Company in My Lai, stated in 2010: “A lot of people talk about My Lai, and they say, ‘Well, you know, yeah, but you can’t follow an illegal order.’ Trust me. There is no such thing. Not in the military. If I go into a combat situation and I tell them, ‘No, I’m not going. I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to follow that order,’ well, they’d put me up against the wall and shoot me."

>>34019815
If there is one thing life has taught me, it is that thinking above your pay rate leads to nothing but trouble.

You are there to do what you are told. The end.

>>34019896
>Implying the US gives a fuck about war crimes

We don't recognize the authority of an international body when it comes to our forces.

>>34019815
USE YOUR FUCKING FLCS, god dam it the master seargent would be screaming about SOP right now

>>34019961
Implying the military gives a fuck. If you were ordered to do it, just plead retarded muhrine and let your CO get chewed out.

>>34019982
My apologies this isnt pre-Protocol !

>>34019999
>UCMJ does not address war crimes

>>34020027
*1

>>34019992
The only correct answer, just look where blindly following orders got Forest Gump, hell I took it up the ass for 10 years and I'm doing pretty good now.

YOURE NOT PAID TO THINK!! YOURE PAID TO MUHRIN!! OOORRAAAHHH!!

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>>34019815
when I was in the Army, we were specifically told "I was just following orders" is not a defense.
If you feel an order is unlawful you can supposedly defy the order, but if later the order was found to be lawful you can be punished for not following the order.
Within that same day it was explained to me by my Sgt that we could be shot on site if we were to cause panic or not follow orders which would incite others to commit mutiny.

So to answer your question yes/no/maybe/probably not

>>34020091
this was right before deploying to Iraq btw. We were also give "Rules of Engagement" which determined when we could engage the enemy, and how to use escalation of force.

>>34019815
What 4chan anons may not realize is under Obama, DoD desensitized soldiers and Marines to kill civilians during uprisings.

>>34019999
It's not about international court, it's about your own court you dumbass.
You know that military police are here to investigate crimes as well right?

>>34020091
Who gives a fuck what you were taught, your CO is going to be in a bigger world of shit if shit gets out, so don't go sprouting a conscience. It's not the right time or place for that. Now go cut off those children's hands so we can show those hajis over the wall we mean fucking business.

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>>34020121
do go on.

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>>34019815

>he or she

How to spot a paid shill. Can't physically force themselves to use 'improper' language. Remember: someone is trying to influence you somehow with this thread, even if it's just at a subconscious level. Should be obvious enough by the forced spelling errors and irrelevant, politically charged nature of the OP.

>>34019978

Tell that to the 96 year old frail men who allegedly sat in a guard tower at some interment camp who are hunted to the last this very day.

>>34020143
>Who gives a fuck what you were taught
I thought maybe OP might.

In my opinion we should have had reprisals. But then again, I also think the war in Iraq was retarded and Saddam was based as fuck.

I'm just saying, if you want to have a war, have a war. Don't make soldiers into policemen to fight a PC bullshit war with one hand tied behind their backs.

>>34019999
Nice quads. In recent years we do care. Have to pass questionable orders through legal counsel.

>>34019815
>woe is roe
this is why we have roe (rules of engagement). if an order goes against the roe, you question the order and the leadership that gave it. if there's any action that would go against the roe, you have to get clarification from higher before you can take it.

>>34019815
Yes. This is far more important in the German Military than in the American military.

As with anything, you are more likely to get your life ruined in America.

>>34019821
Do you live in 1903?

>>34020471
ever seen crimson tide? purely hypothetical movie but it makes some good points about leadership.

It is a soldiers duty to refuse an unlawful order. The question is who the fucks orders something illegal in this day and age where everything is recorded and posted on the web. This isn't vietnam anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_30VjNREhAM

>>34019815
Yes, if an order is unlawful.

>>34019815
It is not only his right, but his DUTY. In practice, unfortunately, the military seldom punishes its own men for war crimes. There are exceptions, however, such as Lynndie England.

Basically the only orders you have to follow is if they follow the mission, are legal and also help good order in discipline.
So for non mission stuff, a good order could be to go get lunch for your coworkers, not wash your CO's car.

>>34019815
>can a soilder ever question orders if he or she feels like it's questionable like shooting civilians lol

Gray area. Against UCMJ to question a lawful order but in the moment it can be difficult to determine lawfulness of an order. You would be taking a risk unless it's very blatantly unlawful.

>>34019815
Pristina airport
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Pristina_airport

US General tell British army unit to attack Russian paratroopers, British senior officer declines the order as he doesn't fancy starting world war three.

>>34019864
No if it's an unlawful order then you don't have to follow through with it.

Although like the other anon said 99.999% of the time it will be a lawful order

>>34019815

Of course he can, but he better be able to fully justify his decision to his OC or in front of a court martial.

It also happens all the time, but at a lower level.

>Britfag army
>Belize
>Jungle Warfare Training
>Section Navex
>Lost as fuck
>Found not a single marker out of a dozen
>Gurkhas appear from nowhere, ask how we're doing, they found almost all of them. Tell us one is thataway
>The Sec. Commander leads us to a river
>Tells us the waypoint is over the other side
>No it fucking isn't. I have a map and the river is clearly the boundary for the Navex
>Even Gurkhas told us it was the other way
>Sec. Com (Corporal rank) who is a total fucking dick, a bully and hated by all, stars to lead us across the river
>Up to his neck
>Fuck that
>He gets halfway across when he realises only the 2ic has followed him
>We're all on the home bank not moving
>Screaming and shouting at us to cross
>We tell him to fuck off and start marching off in other direction
>Follows us, furious, screaming blue murder, grabs one of the lads to shake him about
>Gets rifled fucked to the back of the head by one of the senior lads who'd had enough
>We'd been in the jungle for a month, everyone was at breaking point, we'd all lost about two stone in weight
>The senior lad had a long talk to the fullscrew whilst he was lying on the ground cradling his head
>Not another word was said

>>34024091
>Going into a random river
>in Belize
Okay so I was only there for like three weeks like eight years ago but if my memory serves me correctly this seems like a pretty stupid idea.

>>34019982
>well, they’d put me up against the wall and shoot me

Except that's not going to happen anymore in any western world army

>>34024111

Nah, we got trained hard on river crossing in the first two weeks and were expected just to deal with it. Most of the rivers in the interior around the primary jungle were relatively small affairs, it was only when you went to the Guac river, etc, that you had to start lashing bergens together, etc, and put the Gurkhas out on croc watch.

>>34024229
Ah. For some reason I remember experiencing like, a metric fuckton of leeches.

>>34024091
i wanna hear more of your stories my dad was in balize as well durring the 80's

>>34024140
but don't people who stand out get hazed badly in the army also standing out and not following orders is a bad thing in the military

I always thought there was a heard mentality with the militaery

>>34019815
Solider kan refus enny rdur change him 2 liqiud r gaz.

>>34020589
Except it doesn't. Gene Hackman's character, the moment he put a gun to that random sonarman's head, should have been arrested. The fact that the movie ended with his 'retirement' instead of everybody in the ops room spending the rest of his life in a disciplinary brig tells it all.

>>34019815
I imagine so, much in the same way I CAN jump off a bridge. It won't accomplish anything other than removing me from the earth, but I CAN do whatever I want.

>>34019815
Yes. Back during hurricane catrina a lot of them refused to take citizens firearms when they were disarming people. If it isnt morally right then you better put up with the shitstorm afterwards.

>>34026690
This.

We swore an oath to the Constitution. To protect it against enemies foreign and domestic. If I was ordered to fire on an American I'd probably shoot the man who ordered it.

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Good Soldiers Follow Orders.
Good Soldiers Follow Orders.
Good Soldiers Follow Orders.
Good Soldiers Follow Orders.
Good Soldiers Follow Orders