Is the high rate of PTSD and general craziness of Vietnam vets

>>33925801
Mostly it was the rejection and social stigma of being in the military. Kent State should have been repeated 1000x.

>>33925914
This is a good point, people seem to forget that 'Nam vets didn't really get their due respect until the last few decades.

Just ordinary dudes sent off to fight in some pretty horrible conditions, gunna get some broken ones

>>33925926
>due respect

nah

>>33925935
bruh

>>33925801
Vietnam vets were sissy inner city fags who hated the war they were fighting in

WW2 vets were farm boys with hunting experience who thought it was a "good war"

No technology can make up for a bunch of niggers who only want to get high and frag their commanding officers

>>33925980
>No technology can make up for a bunch of niggers who only want to get high and frag their commanding officers
12:1 KDR fite me

>>33925980
>frag their commanding officers

you say that like it is a bad thing

>>33925935
Fuck off reddit.

>>33925801
I would blame it on the conditions. Look at WW1.. that shit was brutal. Vietnam is hardly a hospitable place.

Then you got pretty places in WW2. Or maybe I've seen too many movies?

>>33926031

go make a stolen valor thread

>>33925935
I don't personally thank each individual soldier I come across for their serb bits (because I live in a city with multiple military bases and I would never be able to go anywhere) but christ man, if you got dumped in the jungle with a plastic rifle that jammed if you looked at it funny, and got dumped there *for my sake* (or for at least for the sake of combating communism), then I'd give you the respect you deserve

>>33926076
>for my sake

that is where you are wrong

>>33926076
It was to thwart soviet expansion into democratic countries.

Korea too.

>>33926119
>south vietnam
>south korea
>democratic

topkek

>>33926123
damage control.

>>33926123
get wrekt kiddo

soviets btfo

>>33925980
>Vietnam vets were sissy inner city fags who hated the war they were fighting in
>WW2 vets were farm boys with hunting experience who thought it was a "good war"

You're really going to need to source this.

>>33926126
He's right though. At the time South Korea was a dictatorship.

>>33925980
>Vietnam vets were sissy inner city fags who hated the war they were fighting in
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.

http://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/

>>33926153
Yes but it wasn't explicitly communism so it's okay

>>33926054
>Germans
>see your cities get blown to bits by the Brits, see your family get raped and slaughtered by the Soviets, fight in Russian winters, come back home to live in East Berlin.

>Soviets
>be soldier #1,243,986, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>be soldier #1,243,987, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>be soldier #1,243,988, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>be soldier #1,243,989, get ordered into German MG42 fire, they run out of ammo, you bayonet them with your Mosin. Say a silent prayer for soldiers 1,243,986, 1,243,987, and 1,243,988. Still live in Soviet Russia.

>Americans
>literal fucking hell in the island hopping
>kamikazes
>possibility of being captured by the Japanese and being swiftly executed via katana decapitation. And that's if you're lucky.
>always the possibility of being a Unit 731 lab rat
>ever more lethal and inventive uses of bamboo

Nah WWII was fucking awful all around.

>>33926190
>Nah WWII was fucking awful all around.
Certainly. But in general troops saw less days of combat per month than Vietnam and rotations to the rear were regular.

>>33926190
>>Soviets
>>be soldier #1,243,986, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>>be soldier #1,243,987, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>>be soldier #1,243,988, get ordered into German MG42 fire, die
>>be soldier #1,243,989, get ordered into German MG42 fire, they run out of ammo, you bayonet them with your Mosin. Say a silent prayer for soldiers 1,243,986, 1,243,987, and 1,243,988. Still live in Soviet Russia.
That was really only in the pivotal battle of Stalingrad, Barbarossa was stopped at Brest by a handful of soldiers even, and after Stalingrad the Soviets were using pretty good tactics.

>>33926088
>>33926119
>(or for at least for the sake of combating communism)
>(or for at least for the sake of combating communism)
>(or for at least for the sake of combating communism)

reading apprehension is a basic life skill taught in elementary school.

besides, you wouldn't have been explicitly told you were being sent into humid jungle hell only to keep an incompetent power hungry Catholic lunatic despot in power for the sole purpose of denying that chunk of land to the communists; you would've been told you were coming to protect Mom, apple pie, the american way, and little Jimmy down the street from the growing threat of the red menace.

>>33926214
You know what, you've got a point there. I suppose a significant factor is the level of atrocity witnessed/participated in, but that another major factor is the constant stress without breaks.

>>33926155
he's a fucking stupid popular history spouter, thanks for correcting him

>>33925801

You have to understand that Vietnam was not a popular war even among troops over there.

Mostly because it was a shitshow being run by people who wanted promotions but didn't know what the fuck they were doing or those who did were constantly being countermanded by dickless bureaucrats in Washington.

Also, it was the first time that they were trying out new methods of training to have soldiers in combat arms trained to kill reliably. Shit does horrible things to a person's mind, as human beings don't naturally have an inclination to kill each other.

But there were also other factors, such as exposure to chemicals like willy pete and agent orange in addition to pervasive counter culture recreational drug use among troops.

>>33926220
It was basicly the same in Finland, but without a automatic weapon and just one guy shooting...

File: Donald Duck PTSD.jpg (187KB, 680x953px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 680x953px

>>33925801
>Is the high rate of PTSD and general craziness of Vietnam vets a product of the fact that they saw more combat per soldier than any prior war or was it the rampant drug use?

It was the fact that you had sources other than the US government.

WWII was heavily fucking censored by both sides.

>>33926190
Ummm ok i just wikid unit 731 and that was the most intense thing ive ever read.

>>33926234
>Reading apprehension
>apprehension
>unironically being this retarded

>>33926024
This

>>33925801

Like most failures of government policy, it was a confluence of many factors:

- outdated military doctrine proving unworkable on the battlefield
- isolated and largely uncaring political establishment
- publicly unpopular war
- new tech that didn't always work due to not being mature
- better PTSD screening postwar

People who did not want to be in Vietnam were suddenly put into totally fucked situations due to shitty commanders, occasionally with weapons which did not work well. As a result, PTSD became a thing.

It's not comparable to WW1 though.

>>33926163

damage control.

>>33926234
>state a or b as reasons
>a is called out to be wrong
>but b! reading apprehension!

whewlad

>>33925801

I know if I was forced against my will to go to some jungle hellhole and fight the locals who used all manner of depraved tactics, all in the name of 'freedom', I'd come out with a few psychological issues.

>>33926119
Incorrect. It was for the Government to get money off the drugs in 'Nam, which they disguised as fighting communism.

If we were fighting communism, why the fuck did we support the Khmer Rogue, communists, who were also fighting NVA?

Average soldier didn't know this, obviously, but it was the reason the war was fought.

Korea, on the other hand, WAS to counter communism.

>>33925801
I'd say it's down to psych evals weeding out the already crazy, training and unit cohesion. Modern infantry gets months of training together to help adapt them to combat stress before even being deployed. This helps because actual stress during battle has a high correlation with PTSD or whatever they used to call it.

>>33926654
because they were fighting soviet expansion, not communism

>>33926555
Pretty much all of this. Modern estimates put Vietnam, Korea and WWII all at having ~30% of veterans suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. However the diagnostic and screenings were comparatively primitive and veterans who developed late-onset symptoms often never received proper treatment. Even as late as the 80's only 15% of Vietnam vets were diagnosed with PTSD, the remainder either being misdiagnoses or late onset symptoms onset after the government studies.

In modern wars Desert Storm and Afghanistan both come in at 10% of veterans suffering from PTSD while in Iraq the number doubles to 20%. Army and Marines are also four times as likely to suffer from PTSD than Navy or Air Force.

As to World War I, modern estimates put the number at 20% but that number is likely horribly underrepresented by the complete lack of diagnosis or understanding, particularly during the early days of the war when much of what would become known as Shell Shock and War Neurosis were attributed to rank cowardice.

Hackworth described the conditions they fought in as the harshest the Army had faced since Valley Forge. The Marines lost more in Nam than WWII because although the Pacific battles were God-tier awful, you had like a year or nine months between the shit, chillin in Aussie and fuckin babes. In Europe, besides winter (yeah I know the Bulge) you were fighting in Europe for Chrissakes. Conditions couldn't have been that bad. So, sustained stress (combat could be rare even for some frontline units but having to deal with booby traps every goddamn second can be stressful), McNamara's corporate approach to warfare treated units and individuals as cogs in the machine, unpopularity and a particularly wily enemy plus all mentioned previously. Never fight a land war in Asia.

>>33926735
vietnam turned to soviets because burgers didnt help them when they asked them first, faggot

File: verdun-poilus.jpg (322KB, 1070x762px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 1070x762px

>>33925801
Crazier than WW1? I doubt it. I imagine it has more to do with being counter-signaled so hard back home, being vilified as baby killers and shit, especially if you served honorably. It wasn't even that gruesome of a war by comparison to many others.

There is a lot every generation of soldier has had to put up with if you think they were doing thinking it was for the greater good of their. Vietnam wasn't one of those wars.

File: yuri.jpg (37KB, 488x356px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 488x356px

>>33925801
Commies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR9eYg75eo0#t=2410

>>33926654
>muh Nam drugs


>why would the US covertly fund and support a shit-tier communist group which is currently fighting their good-tier other commie opponent (NVA).

>what possible reason could the US have for turning commies against each other, one faction of which they're fighting a modern and unprecedented war of Attrition against and losing to

Anon, you gotta get your Deep State CIA hat on. Attempt to win, by any means necessary.

Tbh most conspiracy theories are formed out of normies misunderstanding the shear brilliance and simultaneous retardation of the intelligence apparatus.

Its playing 5th dimensional chess while having Tourettes Syndrome

File: MAGA_Gunner.jpg (630KB, 1166x884px) Image search: [Google]

630KB, 1166x884px

>>33927219
>being vilified as baby killers and shit

>>33925987
>12:1 KDR
>not 25:1 for a nuke

git gud son

>>33926190
you forgot about the German soldier getting send to Russian fun-camps in Siberia.

or Russian soldiers getting send to German fun camps.

(and then shot by commissars when they liberated the camp)

I don't know. ww1 might have been more brutal but ww2 was adding fucked up ideologies to all that making it just as terrible.

Assuming we had an all volunteer army by 1950, does the Vietnam War still happen?

>>33926024
please fuck off you dumb little faggot, if those whiny little turds didnt want to get their hands dirty they could have chose canada or prison just as easily.

>>33927410
>vilified

that implies they weren't babykillers. but they were.

>>33925801

it's a product of the draft and many people being too pussy to go to war

>>33929837
>2nd Lieutenant detected

>>33925801
did they actually? I could imagine that'd be a damned big part of it. I always thought it had something to do with having soft squishy boomers drafted. That coupled with the drug use, and the social stigma faced at home would do it. Just imagine the cases of triggering and Ptsd if they drafted this current generation.

File: 220px-Augusto_Pinochet.jpg (15KB, 220x298px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 220x298px

>>33926123
>>33926153
Still way better than the north.

>>33929737
The Germans didn't bother to feed Soviet PoWs unless they were sent somewhere as slave labor.

Many German soldiers also spent years in the gulag AFTER the war ended.

>>33925801
This might be bullshit because it's from a psychology class, but i was told the high rate of PTSD came from soldiers being unable to dehumanize the enemy effectively. Some soldiers could skin a gook and never think about it twice, others took those memories to heart. Probably had something to do with being in a dense fucking jungle with charlies hiding in tunnels, surrounded by crazy ass insects and shit. I mean there's a bunch of factors, but i would guess that the dehumanization of the enemy was a big factor

>>33930548
>dem moved goalposts

>>33925801
WWII vets had a higher suicide rate then Vietnam vets.
The difference is WWII vets were man enough to not wine about PTSD

>Pissing contest
>Calling anyone a sissy who saw combat and was fucked up after.
Why? These people served their country. Respect earned.

>>33931955
>served politicians

ftfy

>>33931961
Not sure what ftfy means, but vets still served. They fought, they did their best. What more could anyone ask of them?

>>33925801
They saw crazy amounts of combat. A marine in the Pacific spent a lot of time traveling from island to island by boat. A marine in Vietnam takes a helicopter to battle every day

>>33930892
>tfw a nice cabernet to dull my PTSD

>>33931985
>What more could anyone ask of them?

Not kill for politicians to begin with.

>>33925801
To be quite frank OP, the drugs actually probably helped.
The amount of combat they saw was fuckin intense, and psychological casulaty rates would have eben much higher without the pharmacological "boost" they gave and still give troops.

>>33926220
>and after Stalingrad the Soviets were using pretty good tactics.

No they didn't. They just had vastly superior numbers of men and T34s.

>>33927301
>Its playing 5th dimensional chess while having Tourettes Syndrome

hope you dont mind me stealing that.

Its also that in the years and decades after Vietnam, the anti-war mainstream media and culture used "see, it was a bad war, see how bad it fucked up the veterans" as an argument.

There was no one whose political agenda was helped by drawing attention to WWII cases of PTSD.

>>33926163
death is a preferable alternative to communism

>>33929776
Yes, because a volunteer implicitly endorses any mission by taking the King's shilling. If they want out, they don't re-up or get shitcanned early.