What's the best american fire arms company in 2017

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>>33880751
It's fucked if America doesn't make the best production guns in the world but the world is a pretty fucked up place.

>>33880812
Europe will always make the best guns.

Manurhin and Korth show that they can even do revolvers better than us.

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>>33880751
>inb4 cast guns are worthless

>>33880812
You can thank the NFA for that.

The barrier of entry to get into firearms design is fucking ridiculous.

If they amended it to say you could do RnD without needing an FFL then maybe we'd see some more experimentation, but as of now the only manufactures are too busy sucking government dicks to do something interesting.

>>33880751
Because they produce a wide variety of reasonably high quality guns for a decent price. There isn't a single bad product in their entire lineup.

>>33880751
Ruger is b-a-e t-b-h.

>>33880751
all major american gun companies are ran by traitors that bent, and will gladly bend, the knee to gun grabbers if it means getting spared.

>>33880751
They're definitely one of the best big US based companies, although considering recent new there isn't exactly fierce competition.

>>33880897
the ruger lcp II and the mark iv are the only kind in their class and completely dominate. I have purchased them both lately. I also own an ar 556, fantastic gun. I want to also buy a gp100 with a 6 inch barrel. It's like there is no reason to buy any other product than ruger anymore

>>33880751
I haven't tried any of their other guns, but their revolvers have been great in my experience.

>>33880908
Bill ruger was a total cuck and when he finally died ruger became based AF

>>33880897
what is mini-14/30?

>>33880938
>the ruger lcp II and the mark iv are the only kind in their class

As far as the LCP goes, there are plenty of polymer framed striker fired pocket-sized .380s on the market. Plenty. The LCP2 is great for its price point. Still chose the p238 over it though.

There are a few things on the market like a mark 4, too. S&W has a gun that's somewhat similar, but I'd chose the ruger over it.

TL;DR: They are not the only kind in their class.

>>33880958
the mini's they make now are not bad guns, it's just an inferior platform. I don't know why they even make them anymore. But it isn't constructed poorly.

>>33880958
A reasonably high quality gun at a decent price-point. It's not trying to be an AR15, they already sell those. It's trying to be some garand action goodness that's not banned in many of the cuck states. It succeeds.

>>33880751
Just ordered my 5th ruger gun the other day. They make good stuff.

>>33880968
let me clarify. The ruger mark IV is the only 22 target pistol in it's class that can be very quickly taken down without any tools. The LCP II is the only little mouse 380 that has a 6-7lb trigger pull. I understand their are competitors but in my mind they don't really compete.

Of the eight guns I own, half are Rugers (and three of the others are milsurps). The only other non-milsurp guns I have any interest in buying at this point are from Henry, which is also a great company.

>>33880958
>what is mini-14/30?
They're great rifles that make AR fanboys spasm into autistic meltdowns.

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sold my lc9s for a P320

>>33881026
they aren't really. More expensive, less accurate, less customization, less reliable, heavier. Is it really better at anything?

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>>33880980
they are bad guns because they are a trap for new gun owners that don't know better. they are chambered for the most common rifle rounds, but use proprietary mags instead STANAG and AK mags. they are more expensive than entry level AR-15s or AKs while offering no benefits over them and having a far smaller aftermarket support.

the only neat things about them, the AC556 folding stock, isn't even made anymore and costs as much as the mini-14/30 itself.

>>33880896
You can do RnD, as long as no one knows about it. If you're doing enough that people need to know about it, you can afford a FFL. With all the engineering software available now, you don't need to touch anything physical to do cool shit.

>>33881044
It's better about being legal in MD, thats about it.

>>33880981
>>33881026
>that buyer's remorse
lmao

>>33880938
>mkIV
>only thing in its class
Buckmark
S&W Victory
S&W 22A
Neos
>unless you meant something other than "relatively cheap entry-level target pistol with a threaded barrel option"

>>33881044
Better at looking good

>>33881069
I don't disagree with you but the gun is of quality and they run, just an outdated platform that cannot compete with cheap ar15s.

>>33881044
>they aren't really. More expensive, less accurate, less customization, less reliable, heavier. Is it really better at anything?
>>33881095
>lmao

AR fanboys respond to me saying that the Mini-14 causes them to spams into autistic meltdowns, by spasming into autistic meltdowns.

kek

>>33881102
>Buckmark
>S&W Victory
>S&W 22A
>Neos
None of those can be take apart without a tool, no reason to buy them when mark iv exists. Mark iv breaks down easier than a glock

>>33881107
But they really don't. Even the OEM mags, the most reliable of the lot, are unreliable compared to beat-to-shit secondhand GI STANAGs in a $200-cheaper AR.

>>33881119
Stated facts and asked a simple question. What is the mini better at than an ar15?

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>>33880751
Eat shit, Bill. best coming through!

>>33881128
i shoot my fathers mini from the 80s and it runs. Just an anecdote.

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>>33880751
M&P Shield is my favorite brand :)

>>33881123
>none of those can be take apart without a tool
Buckmark damn sure can. Neos damn sure can. The Victory supposedly can.

Also keep in mind that literally all of them are older than the MkIV, and the MkIV literally breached a patent over the quick takedown with an aftermarket upgrade for the MkII that's been around just shy of 25 years, and they got sued over it.

>>33881119
>mad because he overpaid for a shit gun
lmao

>>33881141
>Stated facts and asked a simple question. What is the mini better at than an ar15?
100+ post thread on this subject still in the catalog. Go look there.

>>33873484

>>33881155
buckmark requires an allen key to disassemble

>>33881141
Not getting banned

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>>33881185

I'm sorry boys, but you have to be an absolute moron to think any 1 gun company is the best at everything. No, they might be the best producing 1 thing. Ruger is good, but they are not the best. Oh and I know he's dead and it's a new company, but fuck bill ruger

>>33881193
I'll give you that.

>>33881188
...mine doesn't? But then again mine's close to 10 years old by now.

>>33881193
But that's because it's not as good. I don't think AR is best, but it is objectively better.

>>33881193
salt weapon bans usually have a shopping list of firearms that are banned by name. mini-14 always makes it.

>>33881206
why do you take it apart? This guy has to take 2 screws out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPh-d9TgS3k

it's the whole reason I didn't buy a buck mark

>>33880812
>>33880860
For europeans, guns are a rare and possibly restricted status symbol... for americans they're tools and/or toys.
Also, europe has tons of subsidized national manufacturers and a strong mechanical engineering sector besides.

>>33881198
Actually, it's 100+ arguments. You're just too lazy to look at them.

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>>33881167
Pic related.

Every. Single. Fucking. Time someone brings up the Mini-14 on /k/

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>>33881305
if you can't just tell me what's better about it and have to dance around to issue telling me to read some stupid archive, I can assure you that is not an argument.

>>33881319
>if you can't just tell me what's better about it and have to dance around to issue telling me to read some stupid archive, I can assure you that is not an argument.
Okay, so you want to be spoon-fed because you're too lazy to read through where this has been hashed through before. Not my problem. Nobody's paying me to educate you. If you can't be bothered, fuck off.

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>>33881347
ad hominem is not an argue. You could have just made an argument 3 posts ago

>>33880980
They make them because people buy them dumbass

>>33881371
wow I didn't know ruger makes guns to sell them for profit

>>33881368
>ad hominem is not an argue. You could have just made an argument 3 posts ago
What part of "fuck off" did you not understand?

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>>33881382
sorry I don't believe that was an argument either.

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>>33880751

Why do people post OP's like that?

Why not just say "I believe that Ruger is the best American firearms company in 2017. Agree or disagree?"

>I don't know why they make them anymore

>bc they sell well

>Oh no shit sherlock

>>33881416
because it's a meme, you reddit dwelling faggot.

>>33881468
it's a meme, you dip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IVJVTUNl0I

>>33881148
d2g what are you doing here

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Ruger is shit company and Ruger fanboys should off themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-capacity_magazine_ban

This goes for Ford fanboys too. I don't think Chevy nor Dodge has better pickups, but when the Ford Foundation funds the anti-american shit that it does, I'd rather be dead than own a Ford vehicles.

>>33881549
>Ruger is shit company and Ruger fanboys should off themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-capacity_magazine_ban
You *do* know that it's not literally 1994 right now, don't you?

That was a long time ago when the company was under different management. It has nothing to do with the current year.

>>33881549
ALL large US companies are fucking despicable. they all purposely lobby to have the laws formed in such a way that they fuck over the competition and spare themselves.

who do you think is behind all the import bans on "non-sporting" firearms, where non-sporting is defined as whatever the fuck ATF wants it to be? they go around this with parts kits so they banned barrel importation, too.

i won't give US car manufacturers my money either.

>>33881568
just how it's not the same smith and wesson, but their guns still have the cuck locks, right?

>>33881614
chevy paid back the bail out money and makes good cars now

>>33881628
>just how it's not the same smith and wesson, but their guns still have the cuck locks, right?
Who cares? Nobody uses the Hillary Hole anyway, and if you don't then it doesn't affect you at all. That's why S&W never bothered to remove them.

>>33881673
don't they have a potential to fail?

>>33881682
>don't they have a potential to fail?
There's one on my LCR, but I've never heard of anyone having any trouble with them.

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>>33881685
please refer to the chart

>>33881673
>That's why S&W never bothered to remove them.
you're aware you're a cuck, right?

The striker on my 9e broke, customer service very good, I will be trading it in and getting a glock as soon as my new striker comes in.

>>33881682

the potential is there yes, there are the inevitable forum tales of someones gun locking up under recoil and requiring a smith to go in and fiddle with the lock. it's such an insignificant percentage, but the chance is there.

>>33881185
That entire thread had nothing in it able to back up the claim that the mini 14 was better in anyway, except for some fudposter who claimed that its more reliable because it uses an open top garand action, and that the garand was more reliable than the ar (its not) so therefore the mini 14 is.

>>33881735
>you're aware you're a cuck, right?
No, actually, I'm not - I'm just not going to sperg out about shit that happened 20 years ago and doesn't affect me at all.

>>33881256
Mine has a very small takedown lever to pop the top cover off.

>>33881798
it does effect you, because they are still willingly producing their guns with an unneeded and unwanted weak point.

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>>33881491
hi. top oper8r here

>>33881141
Nobody ever claimed Mini-14s were better than ARs.

The original claim was that Mini-14s are good guns, which they are. So far, nobody has been able to disprove that in any way that's not "but it's not an AR" as if not being an AR makes it an intrinsically bad rifle.

>>33882066
I agree but the other anon claimed the mini14 is better than an ar15 in some metric then refused to tell me what the metric is

>>33882092
Oh, I didn't see that.

The only way Mini-14s beat out ARs is aesthetics (subjective opinion), controls (also subjective opinion), and ban state compliance.

>>33880860
Kek no

>>33882123
agreed

>>33880899
Is bae a censored word? Or are you just retarded and young

>>33882244
there are some niggers and other non-white undesirables that come here for some reason

>>33880897
>Because they produce a wide variety of reasonably high quality guns for a decent price. There isn't a single bad product in their entire lineup.
Reasonable post.

>>33880938
>the ruger lcp II and the mark iv are the only kind in their class and completely dominate.
Not a reasonable post. There are quite a few other micro compact .380s, and you're smoking some strong peyote if you think the target .22 pistol market (aka, the Colt Woodsman clone market, aka the Browning Buck Mark clone market) isn't plenty saturated.

>>33880997
>let me clarify. The ruger mark IV is the only 22 target pistol in it's class that can be very quickly taken down without any tools.
That's not a "class" of guns. It's a feature. And not to play devil's advocate, but it's not really required. It's a target pistol, not a carry gun.

>The LCP II is the only little mouse 380 that has a 6-7lb trigger pull.
Are you forgetting about the Sig P238 and Colt Mustang? Both have crisp 6-7 lb trigger pulls. This is also not a "class" of guns, btw.

>I understand their are competitors but in my mind they don't really compete.
If claims are not falsifiable "in your mind," then why even bother making them?

>>33882092
>I agree but the other anon claimed the mini14 is better than an ar15 in some metric then refused to tell me what the metric is
I showed you where you could read my answer, you just couldn't be arsed. Victory through laziness is not a thing.

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>>33882271

>>33881155
>>none of those can be take apart without a tool
>Buckmark damn sure can. Neos damn sure can.
Yeah, but you have to shoot it until the screws come loose on their own from the vibration of shooting and because you didn't use loctite.

>>33882271
>arsed
As in, you're either British or Australian, so you know fuck all about either one

>>33882244
>>33881223
It's not at all about performance. It's about appearance

>>33881072
An FFL isnt just the 350 it costs for the license and the right to manufacture.

There's a whole lot of other bullshit that goes with that requirement now that home based FFL is kill

>>33882737
>home based FFL is kill
since when?

>>33881628
>just how it's not the same smith and wesson, but their guns still have the cuck locks
What does that have to do with Ruger?

>>33880897
This

>>33881416
cute dog

>>33880751
It's S&W.
Say something about them that's both true and bad.

>>33882929
Rumor for a while was that ATF wasn't issuing FFLs to home addresses. I forget what started it but it turns out it wasn't true.

>>33880938
>It's like there is no reason to buy any other product than ruger anymore

What if you need a 12ga shotgun?
>checkmate

>>33884153
i already have 2.
>checkm8

>>33882123
Yeah, I could see someone who had only ever shot M1s or M14s liking the mini since they'd already know the pattern. I'ts a small demographic but a fair point.

>>33884747
how long could he possibility last. Most mini 14 owners know they have an inferior product compared to a modern product. My own father claimes to like his SKS and mini14 but when tell him about their shortcomings but when I bring up this issues he always wants to try to modify these firearms to make them more like an ak or ar15 which will ever happen. It's like cognitive dissidence for those for who regret spending these money on these preban rifles trying to make them like post-ban rifles but they never will be. I understand why people react this way but it's just not practical. I have shot both the sks and mini14, they work functioning rifles but nothing like a modern ar15 or ak.

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>>33881035
Sold my LC9s for a PT111
Used the left over money to buy shit for my AR

>>33886005
how dare you put a cock crown on the based tall gun teacher grandpa. He deserves much more than that.

>>33881778
>buys the economy model
>falls for the tupperware meme

If Ruger made a S&W 500 variant, it would weigh as much as an engine block and be fucking perfect as a result.

Ruggedized gun too heavy? So what!

>>33881707

almost an originnalfag... might as well be cancer tho

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>>33881142
That sweet New Zealand service rifle, just a shame I left before they ditched the shitty Augs.

Come to think of it, are there any countries out there that have a better service rifle?

>>33886610
Russia with AK74M.
Finland with the Finnish AKM.

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Now down faggits and accept CZ into your life.

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Should I buy a stainless GP100 or a S&W 686 plus?

I'm going to the shop tomorrow.

>>33886628
Buy what ever feels better if your not going to shit all over it with after market shit.

>>33886610
Replacing aug with murica patriot trash.

The armys reason for the swap was due to accuracy difficulties with the aug's which is slightly founded on account of the integral fixed power optics that have been thrashed for the last 20+ years.

Ugh the army has just become... ameriphiles? Fucking ar15s and multicam. Yuck.

I want my dpm and l1a1 back please.

>>33886628
Take a look at the match champion GP100. They are awesome, but the 686 is awesome too. If you plan on carry, go 686. If you plan on just range use either one is great.

>>33881390
Go the fuck back to /pol/ or reddit.

>>33880751
You're thinking of desert tech, kel tec, even PSA is making decent AK's and not ripping people off for AR's.

Ruger just does a decent job. The LC9S AR556, and 10/22 are solid. Everything else they make is overpriced for what it is, and they aren't exactly being innovative just recreating and copying old designs. That's true of any company not making bullpups in 2017 though.

>>33886682
I never really thought the Aug was inaccurate, could still easily get 1-1.5 moa with it. What I hated was having to clean it every five fucking seconds, and that piece of shit scope.

I still had dpm when I was in service, shit was pretty aesthetic, I hate the new shit. But fuck having to carry an slr.

>>33882929
Since a couple months ago

>>33886710
>Everything else they make is overpriced for what it is
The Hawkeye/Scout are arguably priced a bit higher than they need to be, but then that's hardly "everything else they make"

>>33881095
I don't own one, but I play to buy one. That garand action is neato.

>>33881044
>less reliable

This is pure retardation. AR 15s are not more reliable than the garand action. A mini14 can never be cleaned and function with 100% reliability until its worn out. You can't do that with an ar15.

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>>33887456
Thats not just regular denial
Thats head in sand NONONONONONONONO denial

>>33886628
Best answer: BOTH

Disclaimer: I own both

>>33886701
>If you plan on carry, go 686
Why?
Is 39.7 oz S&W better carry than 40 oz Ruger?
BAKA

>>33887456
>A mini14 can never be cleaned and function with 100% reliability until its worn out.
WTF?

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KP90... The greatest .45 ever produced by the Gods of war!

>>33887456
The AR-15 has been proven to have a more reliable action than both the M1 Garand, Mini 14, and M14 (the big 3 Garand style open top action guns). In mud and dirt/dust tests the Garand style weapons only get off the 1 already chambered round before jamming. The Ar15 design also allows for a wider variety of ammo types and pressures to be shot safely through it while the Garand system has the issue of higher pressure ammo bending the op rod.

I think the Garand action is cool and plan on owning an M1 and a Mini 14 someday, but claiming that they, or any open top action gun with an oprod exposed to the elements, are more reliable than the AR is either pure foolishness or ignorance.

>>33888284
Actually at least in my case it's first hand experience. I've owned 3 Mini-14s, a Garand, 2 M14geries and a commercial M1 carbine over the years. Both old and new models. I've owned 2 AR15s and an AR10 as well.

The Mini-14s have never had trouble with even the shittiest ammo, under adverse conditions (sand/mud included but of course not swimming in mud holes). They have had trouble with shit tier aftermarket magazines, but the ARs had horrendous problems given shitty magazines too (specifically a promag and a really worn out usgi aluminium one).
I have seen ARs become very iffy if not cleaned or lubricated properly. This is a non issue with the Mini-14s. You can typically run them bone dry and filthy as fuck. 2000 rounds of steel cased garbage? No cleaning? No problem! An AR can do it but at least requires a hose-down with CLP to avoid trouble.

I've also seen recurring under-gassing on ARs. The 10, one of my 15s and several other people's 15s would run with military ball but only some commercial ammo and definitely not steel. This wasn't due to the case material per se, but they would only barely have enough power to cycle normally and anything less powerful would not let the bolt clear the magazine causing an ftf.
This appears to be a common and recurring problem.

On Mini-14s, they have beefy parts that can handle crazy over-gassing. They fling brass like a PTR. It's dramatic but doesn't harm the gun any, and it's also what allows them to digest anything you want them to.

Finally, open actions can help reliability and troubleshooting. On an AR I'd occasionally get double feeds that required a full tear down to clear because the case would get stuck inside the nicely sealed up receiver
Usually eaten by the charging handle. Shotgunning it open? Nogo because the bolt carrier telescopes to the buffer tube when not in battery. Pop both pins and pray you can knock the LIVE rounds loose without an OOBD.

>>33889669
Cont.

Open action? Say you have a shitty magazine or a fucked ejector. You are going to see wonky ejection patterns but because there's less to hang up on most spent cases will just bounce out one way or another. No jam. If there is a jam, it's usually a stovepipe. Easy to clear. If it's a feed jam. Lock bolt back and pull out magazine. You're not going to have brass or a live round stuck in a half sealed upper receiver because there isn't one.
Also if there is friction and the bolt hangs up pulling a round from the magazine (usually tulammo because of the rough polymer coating causing too much friction) you have a reciprocating charging handle which you can just smack forward. It's much more effective than the ar's indirect forward assist.

You also have your sights directly on the barrel. Shitty rear sight that needs to be replaced if you have the newer 580 series Mini-14, but it's in a nice place.

Rock in mags are kinda stupid. You can do AK style mag changes with practice. Mags are also expensive but thank god for gen 2 tapcos. $15/ea, 30rds, lightweight and reliable. It's basically the pmag for the Mini-14. Oddball, but it does exist.

>>33889779
What brand were the Ar-15s?

>>33889806
One is a Frankenstein that got built like 4 different ways now. Other one was a briefly owned Windham that I got in a trade. It ran well, but I only shot it once.

AR10 was a CMMG MK3. Balls accurate but would only run with Prvi M80 ball or hotter. Even then no more than 95% reliably. Didn't like it.

Other ARs weren't mine. Lots of shitty parts builds having problems. Some factory guns too. Of course there are a lot that ran perfectly fine too. Almost everyone in CA owns at least one despite De Leon's best efforts. I'm talking about the failures I keep seeing on the ones that have problems, which I admit are a minority.

Is the Mini-14 perfect? Of course not. It has horrendous heat dissipation problems among other issues. But it sure as fuck is NOT unreliable barring one that's either horribly out of spec, literally broken or using a gun show mystery meat magazine.

>>33881707
>tfw I will forever be a Newfag
I
WANT
TO
DIE

>>33887682
>DONT PUT KETCHUP ON ME

>>33886390
>what is the .480 Ruger
It actually weighs less than the same-barrel-length XVR.

And it is damn near perfect. Good aesthetics, double-action that's shorter and crisper than the X-frame's, better OEM grips, similar if not same amount of aftermarket grip options.

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>>33889889
So the only Ar 15 that you've owned used regularly and had issues with was a franken build of questionable quality and part sourcing.

Ive had the opposite experience personally. Both of the ar's ive built, a 10.5" Colt commando clone and a short stroke piston Wolf A1 upper built into a Type 91 clone, ran steel fine. On the other hand the mini 14 my friend has would often jam when shooting and we would be unable to operate the bolt or action to cycle it and clear the jam. I'm in arizona so dusty conditions fucking up his guns oprod and stopping it up were a common occurrence.

The mini 14 isn't a bad gun by any means, but a factory built or properly home assembled AR 15 using in spec parts, will be able to do everything the Mini 14 can, and be more relaible for less money.

pic related is my T91 clone using those Wolf imported uppers, the entire setup of gun, optic, sling, and 3 lancer magazines cost $1,000 which is the same as the MSRP for a basic Ranch Rifle Mini 14.

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>>33889889
>>33890180
this is the other AR15 I built. it could run brass or cheap steel tula without a hiccup.

>>33887443
All flavors of the M77 are overpriced for what they are as well as compared to the 2 other companies that make Mauser-action rifles.

Their revolvers are priced fairly.

Their .22lr rifles are a few percent high compared to everyone else, ESPECIALLY their boltgun .22lr's. There's absolutely no reason the 77/22 should be $550 or the American Rimfire $400, especially when they're both less accurate than a Savage MkII and uglier than a CZ 452.

Their semi pistols have increased in price nearly 50% since Bill Ruger's death and are no longer the "good bargain" guns they used to be, although a few models (LC9, LCP2) are priced fairly compared to similar designs from other companies. There's absolutely no reason to buy a MkIII/MkIV when they retail for nearly $400 for the base model and over $600 for the specialty models any more, there are much better guns for less money.

The RPR, while a damn good gun, is overpriced for what is basically a Ruger American action in a $400 chassis with a pretty basic-bitch barrel.

>>33890115
OOOH IN THE NAME OF LOVE

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>>33883912
They still produce guns with Hillary holes.

I'll give you credit though, I REALLY tried to think of something more substantial. Afaik they're preddy gud, especially compared to Ruger/Springfield.

>>33886721
Carrying a slr is character building haha

>>33881707
So am I cancer or reddit? I came here in 2014 when I turned 18.

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Just like a bunch of nogunz.
Have a ruger thread, nobody post pictures of their Rugers.
1/?

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2/?

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I must be the only hasgunz om /k/
3/?

>>33880751

Got 9E, how'd I do?

>>33882929
>>33887408
>>33883938
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/foghorn/death-kitchen-counter-ffl-no-new-licenses-distributors-stop-shipping/

>>33880860
Eat shit Eurotrash.

>>33888284
>Goes by Ian Tests.
>Not by Army tests.
Do you know how retarded you sound?

>>33889669
>>33889779
A long, detailed, thought out explanation to why Garand BTFO'S Stoner. I'm impressed, but prepare for AR fanboy asshurt.

>>33895608
And which army tests are these?

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>>33880860
>Europe

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cVIwepliNeo

>>33895608
the army doesnt test stuff as hard as ian or make youtube videos of their tests

>>33881707
Holy shit. Another year and it'll be my first decade spent here.

>tfw I still consider myself a newfag
>tfw Im never getting out of here
>tfw my body is ready