Thinking of buying a .40 handgun., but everybody shits on it.

>>33864239
.40 S&W is ok, but it's only really worthwhile if you're shooting them hot. Otherwise you're just shooting expensive 9mm.

Same applies for .45 ACP to an extent.

Imagine a bullet that travels as slow as a .45 with the temporary and permanent wound cavities the size of a 9mm.

Literally the worst of both worlds.

>>33864239
.40 is for niggers anon, do you want to be like a nigger?

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>>33864265

Go with 10mm instead.

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>>33864264
>40
>slow
>small wound cavity

Not in the tests I've seen. 45 bounces off concrete that both 9mm and 40 SW can penetrate. Same deal with wood tests and such.

357 SIG seems to be the one to put 40 S&W to shame, but it's a botique round now.

>>33864260
>only really worthwhile if you're shooting them hot
>Otherwise it's just an expensive 45
>Or an expensive 9mm

I've also heard 10mm unless hot loaded is just an expensive 40 s&w and such.

>>33864308
>Go with 10mm instead.
There comes a point where I should skip to the 44 magnum or a rifle round from a carbine.

I don't believe in reliable or dependable "knockdown" or "1 shot kills" from anything less than a rifle in a full length barrel. Anything out of a handgun needs to be manageable enough to reliably double-tap with. I can keep a 45 compact on target so I figure 40 even hot loaded should be alright.

The reason the 40 SW sticks out to me is it does better than the 45 in penetration tests, and has more performance potential than the 9mm.

>>33864239
It's like a 9mm with more felt recoil. Buy it because 9mm doesnt make your dick tingle the same as it used to. Otherwise it's a waste. I like my .40, sometimes I jack off with the trigger guard. Snappy recoil too.

>>33864364
>more recoil
How hot of a load?

>>33864348
>>33864364
Two kinds of .40 S&W shooters.

>>33864348

I dunno what's more retarded, you or you going off such an outdated picture.

>>33864379
+p hollow points. Same brand rounds between two different guns, both full frame, the .40 feels like it "flips" or rotates more than the 9mm but that could also be because of a slight increase in weight. 96 grain for 9mm, 115 grain for .40. Both are easily manageable but I push slightly when I fire so the .40 fits my specific shooting autism better for a defence round than my 9mm because my follow up sight stays on target.

>>33864239
/k/ will shit all over it but the truth is there's nothing wrong with .40 S&W

if you enjoy shooting it then do it

>>33864401
>outdated
Physics changed and I missed it?

>>33864419
This man speaks truth. There are a big 3 for self defense calibers and they are all amazing, especially with modern round advancements. Any of them will do great.

With bottom bitch loads the 3 major calibers are a wash. With cheaper loads .45 and .40 pull ahead of 9, but you have to balance that with lower capacity/more recoil and possibly a bigger gun.

I love .40, but if I were to buy one today I'd go used. Shitload of barely used cop guns on the market.

>>33864417
>two different guns, both full frame, the .40 feels like it "flips" or rotates more
Same gun in two different calibers, or is there a big difference in something like bore axis and whatnot?

It's probably the weight, yeah. The flip between just 9mm and 45 to me is noticeable.

>>33864239
its the second most successful handgun round produced in the last century

>>33864348

And according to that pic, why choose anything other than .45 ACP? It outperforms all the other rounds, so why choose anything lesser?

>>33864460
>y no .45

It requires a larger gun and capacity is significantly diminished in double stacks. The real question is if you're considering .45 why you wouldn't consider 10mm, which is simply superior in every way but cost.

>>33864447
Could be from the bore, my .40 is a sig p226 and my 9mm is an old Italian made Beretta 92. They're both dead accurate but I just enjoy my .40 more because it kicks a little harder.

>>33864239
9mm...9mm...9mm...why is this still an issue?!!

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.40 is good for shooting at critters. As much of a 9mm fanboy I am, I would sooner take a .40 of the same gun I carry in 9mm if I were going out on a hike in the sticks.

I will still use 9mm for 2 legged threats however.

>>33864460
OP here should have said this in the opener:
I own several 1911s, both GI and high capacity compact. The deflection when 45 strikes anything is alarming, and the felt difference between my compact 45 and a 9mm is like the difference between 22 and a magnum revolver.

The 45 I can handle the recoil, but I'd like something a step down.

45's have shit capacity unless you want a handgun fatter than you, high recoil plus most designs trend towards high bore axis which isn't a great combination on the more compact CCW guns

>>33864484
>considering .45 why you wouldn't consider 10mm

Same reason the FBI made 40 SW, the recoil on 10mm is unreasonable for magdumping into perps.

This is what 40 SW is for.

>>33864492
>P226
> Yeah it kicks more
Huh. And I thought I was going to get called out on bore axis as a meme

How can we ignore the elephant in the room...9mm is used the world over...and it just works.

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>>33864264
Low-energy bait.

>>33864484

>and capacity is significantly diminished in double stacks

I'm not doubting 10mm is a viable caliber, don't change the topic. According to the picture you posted (of which, 10mm wasn't present for) .45 preformed the best. It made no mention what type of firearm shot each round, what type of round was used, or who manufactured said rounds. I'm simply going off the picture YOU provided, now tell me why you wouldn't choose .45 based off that picture.

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>>33864533
>kicks more
>>33864492
>kicks a little harder.
>>33864364
>more felt recoil

>>33864239
>I want something with a bit less recoil than a 45

Not .40 S&W then

The .38 in this is .38 super because competition shooting

>When the .45 ACP and .40 S&W are loaded to the same power factor with caliber-typical bullets (230- and 180-grain), their recoil is indistinguishable

40 S&W is just a higher velocity 45.

>>33864239
I shoot 9mm in my carry guns. I feel it's the best choice with modern ammo. Do your research.

>>33864580
Why does everybody think .45 has tons of recoil? It's just a soft push, I shoot better groups at 7 and 10 yards with an XD-45 than a Glock 35c

>>33864533

Then get a wonder 9. Great capacity, lighter recoil, cheaper than .40, and plenty of viable self defense ammo options that'll work to meet your needs.

>>33864599
>Why does everybody think .45 has tons of recoil?

>Research for competition shooting shows this

>BUT WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THIS

I WONDER

>>33864599
I feel you...45 in a full size is a dream to shoot.

>>33864533
You got lucky with an adult conversation on /k/ for once. Bore axis and frame weight actually do matter for felt recoil.

I would honestly not advise .40 for someone who enjoys .45 primarily. I prefer .40 but dislike .45, my shooting buddies prefer .45 and abhor .40. The recoil is way different. .45 feels like shooting a heavy magnum with a lot of muzzle rise compared to 9mm, .40 has a very fast muzzle flip compared to 9mm. Mostly this is due to weight and speed of the rounds. .40 moves at 9mm speeds with more mass, .45 moves slower but has way more mass than either. Try it out before you buy it .45bro, you may not like .40.

The FBI went back to 9mm. .40 is dead.

>>33864549
For those that haven't been following, we're using 9mm as a basis that we all know to describe the recoil and efficacy of .40 because we all know 9mm, it's used the world over. Also, this thread doesnt seem to be a caliber war, more of an anon wondering about adding a new caliber to his collection.

>>33864239
>The FBI went back to 9mm. .40 is dead.
Case and point.

>>33864239
>.40 does not exist
>FBI decides it needs a snowflake cartridge
>FBI makes .40
>turns out it's shit
>FBI admits its mistake
>FBI stops using .40
>snowflakes stil defend it somehow

kys faggot

>>33864533
>Same reason FBI made .40
>Answering a question not asked
If you're considering a .45 you are bumping up to a gun that can be rechambered in 10mm. If faster followup shots are desired then it would make little sense to go with the caliber that allows for the least capacity in a given handgun.

.45 makes no in a world where 10mm and .40 both exist from a purely pragmatic standpoint. If you have a boner for caliber, more power to you.
>>33864564
>Thinking I'm the same dude
>Finding some insignificant difference between .45 and the .40 loads posted
>Not considering followup shots
>Ignoring that a .45 requires a larger framed gun

Is this trolling?

>>33864614
>someone who enjoys .45 primarily

Eh... not really. I inherited them from Father FUDD.

"Snappier" then is explicitly how you'd describe the difference between 45 and 40 then?

I need to get to the range but by the time I've got spare cash for that, I'll have cash to buy the new handgun.

>>33864611
Maybe I'm pushing so hard when I shoot, .45 actively compensates for it.

>>33864641
Exactly. I bought a .40 because no one I knew owned one and I had a .45 and a pair of 9mm pistols already. I fucking fell in love and now I mostly shoot my .40 and I keep it by my bed for my hd.

>>33864424
No but cartridge technology certainly has.

>>33864239
>>>33864549
>For those that haven't been following, we're using 9mm as a basis that we all know to describe the recoil and efficacy of .40 because we all know 9mm, it's used the world over. Also, this thread doesnt seem to be a caliber war, more of an anon wondering about adding a new caliber to his collection.
This is /k/ after dark...proof that we can be adults.

>>33864239
There's nothing wrong with 40 per se, it's just that whatever reason you could want 40 either 45 or 9 will do it better

People who bitch about .40 recoil while praising .45 recoil tend to compare two different classes of gun. To be absurd, of course a .40 out of a Glock is going to have more snap than a .45 out of a 1911, the 1911 is half over again as heavy.

If you shoot .40 out of a CZ 75 or a pistol of similar weight the recoil is stupidly manageable.

>>33864677
Well said anon

>>33864239
real talk (i'm an amateur, i've shot .40 a few times. i've never liked how it shot - too snappy)

it was a round created to "fix" a problem that wasn't really a problem, or THE problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

TLDR the FBI wanted a more powerful round because they were out shot/out gunned by two criminals...

however, it has been widely accepted that the issue wasn't the power of the cartridge and more of the agents missing the perps.

i've always found that i'd rather just have a 9mm with more capacity and less recoi. the .45 is also good at what it does.

in conclusion imo the .40 is an obsolete snappy firing round

but I like .357 sig

>>33864677
OP here, this is what I was thinking is steel frame, but compact with a low bore axis. The CZ was on my mind.

At the very least, fuck my Springfield GI 1911, I need to sell it for a CZ 97b. I've never hated a gun more in my life.

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>>33864698
>but I like .357 sig
So does OP.

But it lost and now it's expensive because nobody makes it anymore except for enthusiasts. It's priced up there with fucking 38 super now.

>>33864698
I do too anon but I can't afford it...can you!?

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>.45aarp
>diminished capacity

16+1 not enough?

>>33864729
OP wants CCW

Home Defense is for carbines and shotguns.

>>33864690
I'm more accurate with follow up shots with .40 than either 9mm. I do acknowledge that .40 was an unnecessary answer to a stupid problem but I love my weird snappy round. I kind of want a .357SIG barrel because I've heard it's snappier than a .40

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>>33864698

>tfw I want .30 Luger to be as common a partner to 9mm as .357 sig is to .40 S&W

>>33864701
>Hating on the 1911
What's wrong with it, anon? I'd say to go with the Cz 97 but they're Xbox heug.

>>33864690
You're missing part of the story. The FBI ended up with 10mm Auto, which is fucking awesome. But it was too much gun for some of their agents, so they cut down the case to make .40 S&W.

Wanna see dead, look at .380 ACP

>>33864637

I'm just going to assume you're the same dude. You might as well be, you're following my posts. Moving on.

>insignificant difference.
Okay, if it's insignificant enough for you, then choose .40.
>followup shots
Well, if you trained with the gun you're planning to use in self defense, I'd hope followup shots would be insignificant because you trained with it, right? Right.
>larger frame gun
Sure, you need a gun -with a larger caliber- to contain the pressure of .45.

Do you get fewer rounds in the magazine? Yes. Do you need to comprise more with smaller .45 guns? Yes. I'm not denying there are disadvantages to .45, I'm just wondering why people think comparing a failed FBI experiment to a round that has served in the military is a viable argument to make.

>>33864348
We get it, you want validation for your poorly thought out opinions.

>>33864733
I missed his post about CCW.

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>>33864744
>Springfield GI
>What's wrong with it, anon?
It fails at everything compared to every other handgun I've tried... which isn't surprising given it's a 100 year old design. Shittier capacity, handling, ergonomics, crap trigger, and it jams like it's trying to ruin the 1911's reputation. I've already had it past a gunsmith after failing to tune the extractor myself, and it was still fairly unreliable garbage even after he had a go at it.

I get considerably tighter groupings with my modern compact 1911 than the fullsize GI.

Basically, it's hot shit.

I feel bad for soldiers that were issued this.

>>33864796
Also, before people start blasting me for hating on the 1911 GI
Emphasis:
tighter groupings with my compact 1911 and more reliable than the GI

I'm not stovepipe limpwristing the compact 45. Something with the fucking fullsize GI is a lemon.

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Because this probably time I'll have an ADULT conversation for fucking once.

Op I think you should buy a .40

40 is better then 9mm because it has more penetration which will be needed when punching thru a human chest plate. It has more velocity and as I hate to use this word more 'stopping power' thanks to it's higher velocity then 9mm or .45 sure there will be more recoil but it's all manageable if you use fullsize guns and or lift weights.

I don't believe losing 2-3 rounds when going from 9mm to .40 is low cap at all

You still,have more then 12 rounds plus the one in chamber.

40 cal,is better then .45 because not only does it have more 'stop power' it has more penetration then .45 it has more fps and velocity and you get more capacity.

Sure .45 has more mass but whats the point if it won't go past the bare minimum in gel.

Honestly the most important reason why .40 cal has better performance because it'll punch thru the chest plate better then 9/45 while still retaining it's fps and velocity. This of course talking about using hollow points and not FMJ.

I'm about to buy a glock 22 soon for this reason only

>>33864239
Dead? No. Not even close. Even if all the the memes about the .40 take root enough to affect the industry, it'll be at least another 10 years or so for support of the round to drop low enough where it's no longer a practical choice.

Today, the round is still plentiful and relatively cheap and the variety of choices to shoot the cartridge with is a very wide selection.

>>33864759
>Failed FBI experiment
>Caliber that has killed more blacks than KFC and the Tuskegee Experiments
u dun goof'd

>Served in the military
The .40 has served with special forces. Regardless, military service is meaningless. >>33864796
>Problems up the ass

Holy shit, anon, drop it like it's hot. Sounds like a lemon.

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>>33864840
Would like to lastly add

Yes 9/40/45 are both shit rounds for stopping people compare to rifle rounds

But between those 3 shit rounds in my opinion .40 cal is the least shitiest because of the extra penetration alone it has over 9mm and .45 when I comes to going thru the chest plate.

>>33864855

That's bullshit, we won't know the results of the KFC experiment for another 10 years. Now, compared to what (other than kfc) has .40 killed more people than, .45?

Oh, it served with the special forces. Neat. I don't know anything about this, so I'm going to assume that you're not only right, but they're still using it today. Good for them. Not like what they use is meaningless or anything.
>is it?

So, that said, i still see no advantage to .40. Persuade me. Show me it's a fair compromise from 45 and better than 9.

>>33864840
>>33864863

Anybody want to debate me? I really feel like I brought up a lot of great points why .40 cal is better then .45/9

>>33864975
You're wrong.

Sincerely, The FBI

>>33864985
Ow.

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>>33864636
>.40
>snowflake

wut

>>33864985
FBI switched to 9mm not becuase it's better then .40 cal but becuase it's cheaper to train with universally easier to use for woman and weak agents.

.40 cal is still better

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>>33864701
The 97 is a good choice anon

>>33864348
.357 SIG is really popular here in Australia for comp shooting as it allows us to skirt a rather inane law.

>All pistols must be full size or larger, meaning long barrels.
>Not allowed pistol calibres larger than .38 unless you're and IPSC Shooter, which means that .40SW isn't allowed for normal shooters, but .357 SIG is a-o-kay.
In the same regard, I've even seen people shooting 9mm Largo.

>>33864239
Go for it. 40 is the best of the common auto calibers. It is more barrier blind and is more fun to shoot it.
>Location San Diego CA USA and Canada and Australia and Europe and the other day and I will be a good time to get the same as the one that is a good time to get the same as the one that is a good time to get the same as the one that is a good time to get the same as the one that is a

>>33865364
...

>>33864759

Not him, but the military has done dumb shit before.

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>>33864239
>>33864260
>>33864264
>>33864348
>>33864442
>>33864444
>>33864533
>>33864580
>>33864614
>>33864636
>>33865349
>>33865364

Bait thread, but fuck it.
Most of your handgun caliber questions can be answered here: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests#results

9mm is cheap, has low felt recoil, and high mag capacity.
Despite what ninefags say, there is a minor performance bump up to .40.
There is a negligible difference between .40 and .45.
On paper, .357 is the most effective round for most self-defense scenarios, but it's quite expensive.
If you're just looking for power, 10mm is your round.

>>33864796

You got a lemon

.357 SIG is not dead, it's the best choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2lwNjafHS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3OiKsZqiA

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>>33864239
Consider the following true story:

>>33864239
In my experience it is an exact compromise in every way between 9mm and .45.
Recoil is not snappy. Maybe if you are faggot. It is more than 9mm and less than .45.
Power is above 9mm and below .45.
Ballistics are slightly above 9mm and slightly below .45.

People who have never owned one just parrot all the memes they have read on the Interwebz.

>>33864239
Good video of Paul Harrell: Police Pistols: 9 mm vs. .40 S&W
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0

>>33864239
40 is my favorite pistol caliber

>>33864264
>>33864264
>bullet that travels as slow as a .45 with

idiot detected

>>33865523
>Recoil is not snappy. Maybe if you are faggot. It is more than 9mm and less than .45.
Bullshit my 220 with factory spring is less snappy than my .40 226 with a heavy spring AND a compensated barrel.

>Power is above 9mm and below .45.
>Ballistics are slightly above 9mm and slightly below .45.
You obviously have zero understanding of ballistics and energy.

>In my experience it is an exact compromise in every way between 9mm and .45.
I'm assuming your experience is CS:GO or cowaduty.

>>33864239
.357 sig is dead and burried.

.40 S&W has been around long enough, that even if everyone stopped making new guns chambered in them, that the people who own what they hot today will keep using them and maybe pass it on to their kids or grand kids so I expect it being popular for another 60 years and maybe start becoming a Makarov tier old as shit C&R gun with ammo still bring made for historical reinactor and collectors for another 30 years after that.


So like it or hate it, .40 S&W will be still around for a hundred years and Ian's great grandson might do an episode on forgotten weapons about super rare believed to be myth .357 sig guns.

>>33864484
I use a .45 because every gun store in North America has it in stock just like fucking 30-06 and it still being used by police and military.

10mm is a back up side arm for hunters who want a semi auto pistol instead of a revolver.

Most stores don't carry 10mm and the good stuff is better bought online.

>>33864796
You know they make 9mm 1911's?

As for springfields, despite the recent political fury, I won't be getting rid of my Springfield 1911's in .45 because they out class my colt in accuacy, rrliability and build quality.

>>33864828
U.S. Canadian and Philipino Tribal Warriors loved the 1911 in .45

>>33864239
Ah yes the eternal caliber debate thread.

Shoot whatever you want. 9mm is most common and is cheapest to shoot and practice with, there's also a wide range of loads for it. This is why most people use it. It's just as effective for defense purposes.

>>33864239
Largely, it's that there really isn't an appreciable difference.
9mm has higher capacity and less recoil, .45 has lower capacity but a heavier bullet and a different recoil which many feel is easier for them to handle.

The .40 just kind of gives you an intermediary that just isn't that great.

>>33864690
>the issue wasn't the power of the cartridge and more of the agents missing the perps.
The issue was that they brought handguns to fight a dangerous, desperate, expert rifleman with a deathwish and a .223 rifle

They hit him plenty of times, he eventually slowed down from bloodloss and was peppered with a .38 at point blank as he tried to escape in one of the agent's cars (by this time pretty weak from the bloodloss of all the previous handgun shots).

There was like one shotgun there and it was out of most of the fight, until near the end when he had already stopped shooting with the rifle.

They made hits, and it's not that 9mm, .38 or .357 aren't adequate handgun cartridges, it's that handguns are simply mediocre/slow stoppers compared to a good shotgun or rifle. They had M16s they opted not to bring, knowing the suspects were heavily armed and dangerous, they also didn't wait for backup.

>>33864265

Maybe he just wants to solve some problems?

>>33864348
>.45 bounces off of concrete

>>33864239

I have some 40's, mostly because I'm older, and .40 was the super bullet for a while.

At the end of the day, the only real thing that makes me shoot 9mm more is cost. I can easily get 1000 rounds of 9mm for $200 flat with shipping.

40 isn't that much more expensive, but when all the tactical/defense bullshit is cleared out, all I'm doing is target shooting, and saving a few bucks is nice.

That being said, my USP in 40 is unquestionably one of my best guns. Cheap police trade in, probably the best $400 I've ever spent on a gun.

>>33864444

>Shitload of barely used cop guns on the market.

This.

>>33864507

Because not everyone need internet strangers to validate their personal choices.

If you are so convinced by 9mm, then why do you still argue for it?

>>33864549

McDonalds also makes the best hamburgers, because they are the most common.

>>33864619

I know it's hearsay, but I was working with an FBI field guy about this and he said the following

The FBI is an army of accountants, lawyers, and IT guys. They never shoot, and barely touch their guns. The switch to 9mm is more about making qualifications easier, and no legit field agent actually has a problem with their 40.

Just what he told me.

>>33864631

When did /k/ start pointing to a giant Government bureaucracy that is more of a domestic intelligence gathering agency for the best gun advice?

Sorry, FBI 9mm choice is more about lowering standards than tactical efficiency.

>>33864239
Real world one shot stopping power:
1. .357 magnum
1. (tie) 40 S&W
3. 9 mm
4. 45 ACP

I believe iraqveteran8888 speaks to a 17 year study with these numbers all the time

>>33866831
you forgot .357 SIG and 10mm

>>33864239
Aye, Glock is tupperware meme

Buy a Glock G31, G32 or G33 in 357 sig

You can put a G22, G23 or G27 40barrel in the 357

Use the 357 SIG mags to hold 40's is BETTER than using 40 mags to hold 357 SIGs

Now you have one gun to carry 40's for protection, swap in the 357 SIG barrel to be edgy cool dude with damn near light armor piercing capability

I believe the barrel swap also works for Sauers. Buy the 357, use a 40 barrel.

Yes, you can buy the 40 and a spare 357 barrel but you want the mags that hold the necked down cartridge.

>>33866855
I don't actually have the report. I am parroting what IV8888 is saying in the vids. They don't mention .357 sig or 10 in the ones I saw.

>>33864264
Go get you some HST or other decent rounds

Stop relying on white box shit range ammo for self defense

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>>33864424

>claims to know physics
>doesn't understand variables
>like bullet design
>or velocity

Ballisticsfags are the worst. The difference between most bullets is absolutely miniscule. Just shoot what you feel comfortable with.

>>33866958
but muh 700 gr 500 S&W

>>33864239
.40 is mostly dead except for competition shooting and those who have a personal preference for it.

9mm +P+ rounds give similar performance for the same cost and higher capacity, so for CC 9mm wins. Also cheaper to plink with, stockpile, etc.

.45 will still be used by old prepper types because it's an effective round even with FMJ blackpowder loads at standard pressure (yes, it is possible to shoot .45 using black powder instead of smokeless.)

.40 has the misfortune of being expensive for plinking and not being so much better in performance vs. 9mm to be worth choosing over 9mm.

If it was super cheap like 9mm I'd probably own one.

If you like .40, you're in luck, there are TONS of used .40's everywhere.

>>33866958

but anon what about those times when you have to hit somebody on the other side of town?

>>33864239
I thought .40 is the worst of both worlds, or like a 10mm nerfed for weaklings

>>33866865
Sig mags literally say .357 .40 on the side they are the exact same doesn't matter what gun you buy them with.

>>33866831
Why would you only shoot once?

>>33868106
>Why would you only shoot once?
Good point. You'd have to shoot somebody twice with a 45 to exceed the one shot stopping power of a 40. Use that in court. Let me know how that went when you are paroled in 20 years.

>>33867974
it was the FBI that wanted 10 mm but the limp wristed SJW's in the bureau got all PTSD'd on it

I recall rapid fire being easier with less than 10mm ... and that tells you what the FBI's REAL mission is

Gotta discharge all that ammo Obama bought for DHS

>>33868196
>it was the FBI that wanted 10 mm but the limp wristed SJW's in the bureau got all PTSD'd on it

The FBI never considered full-power 10mm on the basis that the recoil was too much. The 10mm cartridge was only brought to the table when the head of the FBI's Firearm Training supplied his own handloaded 10mm for evaluation. This became known as the FBI-load which has similar performance of what would become the .40.

>>33868159
Not how it works, faggot.

>>33866831
>stopping power
kek

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>>33866752
>.45 deflects
45 ACP can't even penetrate a cinderblock

45 deflects easily, this is well known about shooting through tempered glass too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peSxf07p0gY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffizBy0Q6Y

>>33869739
If Johnny can carry 10 apples, and Suzie can carry 9, how many trips does Suzie have to make before she has delivered 10 apples. If you said 1 and 1/9th of a trip, you are a faggot. She needs to make TWO whole trips.

>>33864985
Yeah because women couldn't handle the .40.

>>33867938

This. I picked 9mm for my first pistol because of costs and low recoil.

9mm Luger is rated for, and capable of handling, higher pressures than every other pistol cartridge in existence.

Therefore, it is the best.

>>33871417
>how many trips does Suzie have to make before she has delivered 10 apples
Zero, all she has to do is bitch about the gender apple gap loudly enough and the government will pass a law prohibiting workplaces from holding women accountable for how many apples they may or may not have delivered.

>>33871844
That doesn't sound like it's true.

Is .45 ACP objectively shit?

Doesn't the secret service still carry .357 Sig?

>>33871844
.45 Win Mag is rated for 40,000 CUP; 9mm +P tops out at 38,500.
Checkmate, atheists.

>>33872243
it is low-pressure. So the only difference between .45 and 9mm is 0.1 inch of diameter and less than 100 ft-lbs. The capacity difference however, is significant

so yes

>>33871844
>what is .454 casull

>>33872234
>According to Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives rulings, the 9×19mm Parabellum cartridge case can handle up to 235.00 MPa (34,084 psi) Pmax piezo pressure. In CIP-regulated countries every pistol cartridge combination has to be proofed at 130% of this maximum CIP pressure to certify for sale to consumers. This means that 9×19mm Parabellum chambered arms in C.I.P. regulated countries are currently (2014) proof tested at 305.50 MPa (44,309 psi) PE piezo pressure.

>>33872714
He said "pistol cartridge", Alucard.

>>33872714
>rifle primers

>>33864742
>9x25 Dillon will never be anything but a Wildcat
IT'S A .357 SIG BUT BETTER
GET YOUR HEADS IN THE GAME, YOU FRICKS

>>33872774
>>33872755
what about .357 maximum

>>33872866
Name one repeating pistol chambered in it.

>>33864975
You spewed garbage and then followed on with things that are entirely subjective.

The fact that you think humans have a "chest plate" makes me think you are in fact an alien, and I have no desire to tell you how to kill us.

>>33873005
Deagle brand Deagle
Coonan 1911

>>33873194
wrong .357

>>33864239
It isn't dead. That's largely a MEME because LEOs have been dropping it like it's hot ever since the FBI pointed out that 9mm does everything fine, allows more capacity, and is cheaper too. If you want it then go for it, but i'd caution you to try shooting it first. The recoil sensation is notably different from 9mm and .45. I like 9mm, .45, and even .357 mag but find .40S&W annoying/uncomfortable at least in some firearms that is.


From a caliber war perspective I'm not a huge fan. But, that's like my opinion man.

Why:

>Top of the line .45ACP has more energy than top of the line .40 S&W.

> +p 185gr .45ACP can be loaded to about 592 ft-lbs according to underwood. 165 gr .40 S&W is 528 ftlbs and 180gr is 482 ftlbs. this is 12-22% more energy per round.

> Ergo if energy deposition is a primary concern for you then .45 offers more of it and is going to be better at depositing said energy over a short period of time(maximum peak effects) than .40 due to it's larger diameter.

>If you think poking the biggest hole in things is what's important then top of the line JHPs in .45 offer 29(denim)-32(BG)% more wound volume per round than .40.

>both .40 and .45 have a similar anecdotal reputation for resisting changes in course of direction due to striking bone as compared to 9mm.

>If you think that a .2s improvement in double tap speed or having a magazine capacity of greater than 10rnds are the most important things for a round to have, then 9mm makes more sense than either.

I guess at the end of the day i feel like if a guys gonna get dropped quicker with one handgun round over another it'll be quickest with the .45(good because less time to shoot at me).

>>33866831
Marshall sannow OSS %. it's a notoriously bad study.

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>>33864840
>when punching thru a human chest plate
nigger you are so dumb
>40 is better then 9mm because it has more penetration which will be needed when punching thru a human chest plate. It has more velocity and as I hate to use this word more 'stopping power' thanks to it's higher velocity
I don't think you understand what either 'velocity' or 'stopping power' involves

>>33864975
No because you're a retard who doesn't understand basic biology, or physics or anything about calibre clearly

>>33864975
All three rounds are capable of comparable penetration. Deeper penetrating and lower expanding rounds like hornady critical duty offer expansion in the .50-65" range while offering 14-16" of penetration.

However this is based off of BG studies which do not involve any kind of bone simulant. Frankly this is probably one of the biggest issues with that medium for testing(imo).

Having more mass means a bullet will resist changes in velocity or direction better than a less massive object of the same composition/size. This is a physical property referred to as momentum. So i guess im saying that .45 does all of those pros better than .40 and would only involve giving up 2 more rounds which you would almost certainly not need in the first place.

>>33864614
>I would honestly not advise .40 for someone who enjoys .45 primarily. I prefer .40 but dislike .45, my shooting buddies prefer .45 and abhor .40. The recoil is way different. .45 feels like shooting a heavy magnum with a lot of muzzle rise compared to 9mm, .40 has a very fast muzzle flip compared to 9mm. Mostly this is due to weight and speed of the rounds. .40 moves at 9mm speeds with more mass, .45 moves slower but has way more mass than either. Try it out before you buy it .45bro, you may not like .40.


This has been my experience as well except I am in the .45/9mm camp. I think ratio of gun mass to projectile*speed also is important in affecting the subjective feel. Historically a lot of .40 is shot out of 9mm hardware while .45 has been heavier hardware.

>>33873309
Listen here you stupid no guns cousin fucking white boy. I brought good point your just a faggot no guns faggot you clearly couldn't bring any point to counter attack my reply. I doubt u even own a gay ass .22 fucking faggot no guns. Kill yourself with your faggot katana since that's all u ever own.
>>33873414

Finally somebody with fucking decent reply skills

Alright. But lucky gunner ballistics says otherwise for .45 I use to own a glock 30s I shot a brick twice and it never cracked at all it only had little scratches it was all scratches wih no holes

I own a glock 19 but going to buy a glock 22 for the extra velocity that glock 19 doesn't have..

Yes hornady duty provides more penetration but only because it's bonded ammo. It gives .45 the extra penetration but wih out the expansion a hst is know for.

Which I think is also as important.

This why I believe 9mm and 40 cal are beter then 45. Because there faster rounds which will give the penetration that's needed. So 40 call will better then 9mm becuase it will be even more powerful then 9mm. While also giving u greater expansion in jhp ammo.

In ballstics test in lucky gunner or any test you want to see .45 has LESS penetration compare to 9mm and .40 in JHP.

Bump u faggots where gonna get this timeless thread solved once and for fuckin all.

Somebody who actually owns guns plz reply cuz. Faggots with no guns are easy to identfy come on let's end this debate once and for all.

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>>33865651
>tfw Remington R1
>tfw it hasn't failed me yet, and is my most accurate handgun but people still make fun of me because lolremshit

>>33874994
No we're only going to make fun of you becuase your a fucking .45 faggot are u to stupid to realize your round penetration is compare to a gay ass .32 or .38?

>>33864239
>Shooting suppressed
Go for .45 ACP
>Anything else
9mm

You know it to be true.

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9mm is too popular now for me - I'm switching to .45 ACP so I can be a smug hipster for years.

>>33875038
.45 ACP doesn't suppress as well as 9mm because there's a bigger hole at the end of the can for noise to come out of.

>>33875076
Get a .45 GAP instead, it's compatible with all your 9mm holsters and shit, and it's pretty obscure so most people at the range probably won't have heard of it.

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>>33864239
Just get 9mm or 10mm, Jesus Christ.

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>>33875093
But then I'd have to own a Glock and there's nothing more basic bitch than that.

>>33875083
And that improvment is what? 1.5 db? With 45 you can use full power 230 grain rounds and still be subsonic, whereas 9mm needs the use of (in my opinion) the worst performing common bullet weight in 9mm, the 147 grain.

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This goddamn thread again

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>>33875171

>>33875093
>>33875083
>>33875076
>>33875038


Jesus Christ your all fucking no guns faggots who fucking cares if .45 is suppressable

It's penetration is still shit compare to .40 cal and 9mm.

I swear you faggots don't even own a gun but want to spread facts nobody gives a fuck about.

.45 is bullshit besides in fmj but who da fuck is going to use fmj in a self defense situation

>>33875169
Who gives a shit faggot your not,gonna use a suppressor to shot .45 and I shot .45 9mm and .357 mag with out ear protection there,practicall the same except,for magnum being louder.

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>>33865655
>U.S. Canadian and Philipino Tribal Warriors loved the 1911 in .45


Ugh,..the fudlore is strong.
Especially since the 1911 wasnt even used in the war in the Philippines,

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>>33875194
>It's a .40fag has an opinion on something episode.

>>33875230
Look you autistic faggot white boy I own a glock 19. I'm in process of buying a .40 call glock 22

I wonde
I used to own glock 30s which is a .45 but lol and behold penetration was shit.
Now fuckin kill yourself you no guns faggot,

Noguns should be banned from posting on /k/.

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>>33875259
>Be of the owning
>Savage 10
>S&W 686
>Glock 17
>Beretta 92fs
>AR15
>AK74
>10/22

>Get called noguns
lel k

>>33875206
You could in a home defense situation. I personally know 3 guys that keep their home defence gun suppressed. Although 2 of them use a 9mm and 1 uses a 45.

>>33875302
Used to own
Mossberg 500
Glock 30s

Currently own
Shield 9mm
Glock 19

Gp1975 (ak47)

Ruger secuirty six .357 mag


Your move no guns.

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>>33875358
>Getting baited this hard by some random faggot on the internet.
Where are your priorities in life?

>>33875372
Turns out that he is Bloomberg/Feinstein's hackers that are making a gun registry and all the morons getting baited are falling into their trap!!!!!!

>>33875372
>>33875427
It was cinco de mayo and I'm drunk af , do u fags even have life?

Still even in my drunk mentality I stand by what I say,

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>>33875427
Like I give a fuck
Moldy labia

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>>33874709

>>33875230
He doesn't speak for us .40fags, we acknowledge our round is weird and like it anyways. That faggot has never fired a .40

>>33875496
>>33875473


Listen here you no guns fucking faggot eat a dick.

Yes I speak for you fucking faggots I shot a glock 23 N recoil was a bitch i will say this was when I first started shooting and never lifted weights

Your obviously a faggot who still,dosnt never stand ballstics i dont even own a .40 but I know it's benefits.

>>33875533
>Glock 23
>Recoil was a bitch

Okay manlet, talk to me when you can put 5 shots in the ten ring at 25 yards when you get your .40, then learn to do it one handed.

>>33875606
Shooting .40 in anything but .fullsize especially with polymer grip will be a bitch. Why the fuck are you even arguing with me I'm agreeing .40 cal,is better then 9/45 in penetration with jhp.

>>33864348
some extremely cheap "box o' 10mm" is literally .40sw downloaded and it performs like shit, whistling and tumbling out of the barrel at what looks like 500fps

otherwise even the most entry level plinking 10mm outperforms .45 and .40 (obviously it outperforms .40)

but again you've got either glock 20/29, really overpriced sigs and 1911s with self defense application not exactly in mind with <10rd mags, or really cheap 1911s made in 10mm as an afterthought

I never really understood the obsession with expansion. To me, the whole point of hollow points is to keep the bullet from exiting whatever you are shooting and damaging shit. Handgun "stopping power" purely comes from penetration, but too much penetration is a liability. I want a bullet that embeds itself into a person's rear ribs nothing more nothing less. Finding a round that does that with multiple body sizes is the problem.
I demand a minimum penetration of 15 inches and no more than 20 in ballistics gel. I have found that 125 grain Hornady XTP rounds and 158 grain hydrashocks in .357 magnum do that job perfectly.

>>33875636
That's why .40 cal,is better it still gives you more penetration in jhp compare to 9/45 while still ending up,inside the body compare to,fmj rounds.

>>33875657
It also gives u good expansion while still giving you better penetration.

>>33875630
I honestly prefer my .40s in compact and subcompact, but I prefer full metal frame pistols.

I'm arguing with you because your "debate" is erratic, lacks cohesion, and your primary tactic is ad hominem by way of claiming people are noguns faggots. Modern defense calibers have very little difference when applied to ballistic gel, all the STOPPIN POWAH and WOUND CHANNELS are from the design of the bullet itself, which has come leaps and bounds in the past 20 years. Every picture of a round in ballistic gel shows a temporary cavitation inside the gelatin which, again, is from bullet design.

Now, you're aforementioned complaint that .45 cannot penetrate solid brick is valid and sensible, albeit with a scientific process bereft of any reliable data. .45 is a slow heavy round designed in a time when you needed more mass to cause physical trauma. I agree that it will not penetrate through solid material as fast as a narrower, faster moving mass. Now, in so saying, if you're trying to penetrate brick with a pistol round, you have fucked up. That's what heavier rifle rounds are for. Lots of speed with a severe point.

Now stop this pedantic bullshit, stop shitting up the rest of us .40 shooters that get off on the recoil, and let this fucking thread die.

>>33875657
Yeah I agree with you. 40 is definitelythe best of the 3 big auto calibers. On top of that 40 tends to be more barrier blind. Although that may be a disadvantage legally. A more barrier blind load would probably do more damage if you miss and it goes through a wall and it expands fully in your daughter.

>>33875684
Very well in my inebriated state I can come to a conclusion and agre with what you say I started of early in thread bringing good points but the. Cinco de mayo got the best of me and had me shit posting.

I'll defiantly ad a glock 22 to my arsenal when I want that extra power 9mm can't give.

>>33875636
The idea of a hollowpoint is to create a more lethal round. Partly because it will make a larger temporary cavity and partly because those petals break off and embed into shit inside the body. Some people will say it's to increase the felt force of a bullet striking the body due to its increased energy transfer but I personally haven't seen anything valid in that direction. The fragmentation effect is why uniformed military aren't supposed to use hollow points, along with the whole lack of penetration thing. Armor works really well against hollow points.

>>33875723
I can appreciate that anon. If .40 speaks to you, it will be your most accurate caliber and every shot will make your dick harder.

>>33875722
>expands fully in your daughter
Don't mind if I forty caliber do

>>33875751
How to english?

40 is dead. The companies made a lot ofmoney in the last 20 years when every tacticool dumbass bit into the hype of the "killer" cartridge. Even the fbi is switching back to 9. Everyone is laughing at those 40 guys, theyre the new glock owners.

>>33875259
>c faggot white boy


drop dead nigger/spic this board doesn't like your kind

>>33875259
>and lol and behold

I don't think that's how it goes