I know that the ideal shotgun for HD is 12 gauge, but hypothetically,

>>33768602
No

>>33768602
Yes

>>33768602
No

y u do dis /k/?

Stopping power is a meme. A .22CB derringer is perfectly adequate for self-defense if your shot placement isn't shit.

>>33768634
It'll work, but it's not ideal

>>33768648
Thank you for a reasonable answer

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20 gauge is what i use when clearing bad areas. I like the lever action so i can pretend im like terminator 2

>>33768660
It is almost as good as 12 and still way more lethal than any pistol. #1 buck will proper fuck anyone without armor and with less recoil so great for kids and ladies too. Nothing wrong with it and I would use it as quickly as 12gauge except for bulk ammo availability

Yeah but if you can handle the 12 just fine go for that. a general rule of thumb is the best HD weapon is whatever you feel most comfortable shooting with the biggest bullets

>>33768622
This is correct
>>33768645
This is false
>>33768745
True

It'll work ok. Get the heaviest shot you can, like 00. I can only find 20 gauge gel tests up to #1 buck and they do so-so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0g07IeEXU

>>33768799
maybe scratch that. There's barely any 00 buck 20 gauge in existence because 00 hardly fits the bore. Just get the heaviest you can

>>33768817
Slap some slugs in that sucker, way better than 00 in a 20 gauge. Good gun for shot if hunting, slugs for home defense. Just watch the walls.

>>33768645
Technically correct, but practically false.

>>33768855
>watch the walls

I would never use slugs for HD. Less chance of hitting as well as it literally can go through the entire house

Don't listen to the others. 3000 Joules is the minimum required to take down an adult man.

>>33768909
And what if he's on crack?

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>>33768817
>>33768855
Why not get #4? Anything but bird loads ought to do just fine.

>>33768952
Even some of the larger bird loads will make FBI penetration depth.

Shit like #4 or #5 pheasant loads.

One the one hand, a slug would over-penetrate the wall if you missed right?

But with buck/bird, you might have to replace a ~4' diameter shredded section of wall instead of one hole from a slug.

Ballistically 12ga and 20ga are indistinguishable at HD range.

>>33768957
I would be very wary of lighter shot in that role, it may be reaching adequate depth in bare gel but I'd be surprised if it did that through dense clothing like leather or denim.

>>33768980
>~4' diameter shredded section of wall
you know how I can tell you're noguns?

>>33769025
I know about realistic shotgun spread, I am envisioning (for my house at least) the back of my house to the front door down a long hallway

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>>33769025
Implying he's wrong

>>33768602

20 gauge #3 buck is fine for home defense, and anyone saying different is fucking dumb. A 20 gauge slug is actually better.

don't listen to retards going on and on about "over-penetration", it's a fucking myth. Do your own research on the subject and you'll quickly find it's nothing to worry about with anything less than a 30-06.

20 gauge isn't as "powerful" as 12, but a slug still has more energy than a 44 magnum. 20 is also way easier to control than a 12, better for follow-up shots, and less muzzle flash in a dark room.

>>33769107
>Do your own research on the subject and you'll quickly find it's nothing to worry about with anything less than a 30-06
wrong
it is something to worry about with just about any caliber
it's just that any caliber that will effectively stop a human is very, very likely to penetrate walls as well
the only common exception that comes to mind is 5.56, which has such high velocity that it fragments on drywall and loses energy very quickly (other light calibers would do the same)

>>33769139

No it isn't, and that 5.56 fragmentation thing just shows you really don't know what you're talking about. I'll lay out some facts you can feel free to ignore, or you can actually do some damn research and stop with this idiotic fuddlore about overpen and fragmenting bullets on drywall.

>any round that misses the intended target and hits an unintended target will hit at full force
>this is why you must be sure of your target AND what lays beyond
>you simply DO NOT FIRE is someone/something you don't want to hit is behind your target
>this national average of hit rates for police in shootings is about 20%
>yet any innocents being by a stray bullets is exceptionally rare
>this is thanks to police paying attention to the rule of "be sure of your target and what lays beyond"
>bullets passing through multiple interior walls (like in an apartment or house) lose most of their energy and are highly unlikely to stay on path, hit anyone/anything, or cause serious injury
>this holds true for anything with less energy than a hot .308 or a 30-06


all in all, there is a reason that innocents aren't shot by accident every single time there's a shooting.

just remember that a stray bullet if far more dangerous than a bullet that might "overpen", so as long as you're sure of what might lay beyond you're target, overpen is a complete non-issue.

the only reason it starts to matter with more powerful rounds is because they're able to pass through multiple interior/exterior walls and still be very lethal, but, again, it's extremely (even in war) that stray rounds kill unintended targets.


These are facts. You're wrong. and before you waste your energy, I won't be replying to any idiotic argument you might come up with. Stop with this fuddlore.

>>33769107
>Overpenitration dosent happen till 30-06

Jesus, shut your mouth. Saying shit like that is how someone gets hurt. Slugs penetrate like a mufucker, 9mm fmj penetrate like a mufucker.

>>33769265
>speaks truth
GTFO of here with your logic and reason.

this is /k/ where ignorance is power, and logic and reason are a hindrance in insulting other people in arguments.

>>33768602

Can`t you just admit that you are afraid of recoil, OP?

>>33768602
>would a 20 gauge shotgun be acceptable for HD?
It'd be fine. It's not quite as good as 12ga, but 20ga has all the same shot options, just a few less pellets.
I'd use #4 buck if it were me, grab some cardboard, and test the spread with different chokes at 10 feet and try get one with the spread that seems ideal.

>>33769015
In the case of home defense it might even be more viable because of the close distances but I think you are correct nonetheless.

>>33769050
That was a good scene

The 20gauge might be the better option based on your needs. Buckshot is still buckshot, but if you need a shotgun with less recoil it's going to be better for you. It's also going to be easier to find one with a shorter stock and pull length like a youth model.

>>33768602
20 gauge slug staggered with 20 gauge birdshot. Golden. Pepper em, then kill em. Just get a good wide dispersion laser. Not some pin point laser, but something that forms a penny size dot at about 10-15 feet. If it is for indoors, you need nothing more.

>>33768602
>>>33768645
>Technically correct, but practically false.
This.
If you could put the shot exactly where you wanted 100/100 times then you'd be fine. No one can do this though so >>33768602 is retarded.

>>33769804
>Pepper em, then kill em
Good way to get convicted of murder or at least mans-laughter.

>>33769050
Link? I want to see that thing shoot

>>33770338
https://youtu.be/fxSjLllBbQ4

I've shot a handful of assorted shit with a 20, and it will mess someone up. A 12 gauge will always have more power though.

>>33770418
Still kinda pissed he didn't run mini shotshells through it

>>33770474
I'll do it in part two sometime.

>>33768602
>would a 20 gauge shotgun be acceptable for HD?
12 ga usually shoots 1 oz
20 ga can shoot 1 oz
ballistics effectively indistinguishable

So unless you want to load with 2 oz of 00 buck, either will discourage invaders to continue

>>33770418
Nice

>>33768667
Best course of action during a self defense situation is to pretend you're a T800.

>>33770484
Fire it one handed too just for the fuck of it.

>>33770721
One handed slugs are on the docket.

>>33770418
No barrel to contain gasses and accelerate the shot - it looks badass but would probably just go "phut" -
>"shotshells are not explosive in bulk" is written on every slab of 250

No forend so you can't cock it for a second shot

Cinema meme for people who don't shoot, like those clean 30" circles that shotguns always blow in doors.

>>33770418
>That Team Fortress 2 reference
Also I've seen that movie but I can't remember the name of it.

>>33770909
>it looks badass but would probably just go "phut"

I don't know why but holy fuck this made me laugh hard.

>>33770909
M8...
>>33770418

>>33770961
I'm going to show an underlying streak of newness, but why did you link back to the post that I originally linked to?

>>33770988
Watch the video before saying things that are incorrect.

I think all of you are overlooking the most viable hd-round available for a shotgun. I can't believe none of you have mentioned dragons breath

>>33771012
Pretty well phut. At that range, imagine what a shotgun with 20" barrels would do to that sheet of single corrugated cardboard. The wad is doing the most damage

>>33771059
Put a much smaller hole in it? 800FPS is nothing to scoff at.

>>33771145
True but air guns at Walmart can get higher. I'd like to see it against gel or dryway or something more substantial than cardboard.

>>33771302
Agreed, cardboard was really only to show the spread.

>>33771302
At low velocity mass is a bigger factor as is typically seen with high mass low velocity black powder loadings. That said it is still a lot of mass over a lot of little pellets that while bigger than bb's or pellets are still way smaller than mini balls

>>33768602
Yes, but it's best if you make it semi-auto.

Reduced recoil is great if you're gonna double tap the fucker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxwtJWiYjhA

I think a fake krink/ AK pistol is the best you could do for HD. A 20-30 round mag of 7.62 is going to murder the shit out of anyone bodyarmor'd up or otherwise and it's not like the lob matters for HD.

>>33771515
>listening to anyone who calls himself "big daddy"

>>33771534
I think the eternal debate for HD will always be pistol vs shotgun. If it takes 30 rounds to defend against intruders and you need to defeat body armor then you have a whole other world of problems.

I will grant you that guy in OK that went 3/3 on his home intruders though. Definitely a convincing argument.

>>33771931

I'm not suggesting you need 30 rifle rounds to do the job so much as you will never be left wanting for a superior tool for the job. More of a 'have and and not need it' perspective.

You could scale this argument up to absurdity and suggest why not keep a LMG for HD but I think a SBR or braced pistol would do the job.

>>33768602

If it is capable of shooting more than 2 shells without reloading, it is acceptable for home defense.

I'd take just about anything over nothing really.

>>33770956
Killing them softly, the guy said it in the video.

>>33771931
I personally don't like pump action shotguns for HD just because, if you aren't well trained with it, you can easily make mistakes.

Namely the pumping between rounds. I have taken my friends to go shooting and, despite me mentioning that people always forget to pump their first times using the gun, they made the same mistake.
I imagine it has to do with all the adrenaline going through them that they focus more on the shot than on what to do after. I feel that it would be similar in a HD situation.

Obviously you should train with your HD weapon of choice but for people that only have their firearm for self defense, practicing shooting is probably not something they do often and they may forget some of their training.

That's why i prefer stuff that is a bit "simpler" such as revolvers(pull trigger and aim with a reduced chance to jam compared to semi-autos), Semi autos (also just pull the trigger once there's one in the chamber and even though they jam more than revolvers, its not very common so long as it is held correctly), or semi auto long guns such as ARs.

Pump action shot guns, single action only revolvers, and bolt action guns are what i would advise against for HD.

>>33768602
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMiY6ZX7MtA

>>33769316
>just /k/ things.

>>33768602
Yes. I use a 20ga to hunt because IMO a 12ga is just extra lead for no real benefit and if I can reliably kill deer then you can definitely kill a man. The load you use is more important than the gauge, avoid bird shot for HD.