This is an Su-35, also known as "the most honest picture

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>>33741380
Don't worry. Considering the most critical backbone aircraft of the Russian Air Force have a mission capable rate of sub-25% (that is to say, at best 1 out of every 4 Russian aircraft are capable of performing a mission at a given time), the most impressing thing is that Russia was actually to get 19 aircraft off the ground.
https://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/combat-readiness/

By contrast, the US Air Force mission capable rate 77.8% fleet wide, with key aircraft ranging from 70% for the F-15, 83% for the F-16, 78% for the F-22, 79% for the B-52, 78% for the B-1B. The lowest was 47% for the B-2.

That's how bad a place the Russian Air Force is. It's a place where pieces of crap like the Tu-160 and Tu-22 have at best, half the readiness of the B-2 Stealth Bomber, the most expensive and sophisticated aircraft ever flown. When people call the Russian military third rate, that is what they mean. It's not like Russia is flying the most advanced aircraft. Mostly, they're Soviet vintage pieces of shit that get shot down by American and European aircraft when used by third parties. I for one, would love to see how many Su-35s (an Su-27 with *gasp* digital avionics and fly-by-wire) a single Eurofighter can blow out of the sky.

>>33741380
>This is indicative of Russia's military problem.

Russia's economy is the side of Italy's (in recession). There is no real cure for that and no one believe in the vatnik fables except pol and the Russian population.

Russia itself will probably breakup a bit more in the next 20 years and no fucks will be given as long as no lunatics hijack their nukes.

Russia = Italy 2.0 = not a great military power.

>>33741971
Economy size is irrelevant. Your 600 dollar iphone can't stop a 5.45×39mm bullet that costs 20 cents to manufacture.

>>33742108
There can't really be people this stupid can there?

>>33742108
>Economy size is irrelevant

I have a feeling that the entire history of war & conflict inidcates otherwise, but i'll let you have this one.

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>>33742108
>Economy size is irrelevant
...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................you know what, you win.

>The Su-35 is really an Su-27 (a 40 year old design) with refined aerodynamics, new engines and digital avionics instead of vacuum tubes.
so...

it's not really a 27 then is it, you dickhead?

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>>33742132
>>33742133
>>33742148
Don't forget who is the boss here, Americrashes.

>>33742154
Don't you know? The Eurofighter Typhoon is quite literally a Fokker Dr.I with an extensively modified airframe, new powerplant and other greatly improved flight technology.

>>33742154
>>33742201
>The Sukhoi Su-35 (Russian: Cyхoй Cy-35; NATO reporting name: Flanker-E[N 1]) is a designation for two separate, heavily upgraded derivatives of the Su-27 aircraft.

>>33742167
>MUH NUKES

I knew it. I knew you were going to go there almost instantly that i thought about mentioning it but opted not to.

Next, i'd like to enter a discussion about the differences between conventional engagements and nuclear warfare but you're gonna run away from the discussion anyway.

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>>33742201
top kek

>>33742231
>>33742201
>>33742154
>poster count doesn't increase

don't reply to yourself, it's embarrassing

>>33741406
I thought Russian planes were rugged pieces of war machine, with engines that will eat a piece of runway debris and spit it out while mocking the USAF for doing runway sweeps to protect their fragile high tech toys not suited for the hardships of war.

The Russians could probably improve their fleet readiness and reduced their TBO's if they would just clean their runways. I have seen some pretty rough runways but hollyshit I would not want to be the poor bastard that has to overhaul those engines with all that FOD and shit over the runway.

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>>33742270
Being this desperate in an internet argument is just pathetic dude.

>>33742201
>"Technological development is a spook I tell you"

>>33742277
>I thought Russian planes were rugged pieces of war machine, with engines that will eat a piece of runway debris and spit it out while mocking the USAF for doing runway sweeps to protect their fragile high tech toys not suited for the hardships of war.
[laughter intensifies]
One of the reasons a lot of the ex-WarPac are ditching their commieplanes is because between the twin engines and short engine life they go through six times as many engine refurbishments as F-16s.

And people who think "rugged war machines" beat "high tech toys" just has to look at the Gulf War to see what happens. Spoilers, it involves a shitton of Paveways ruining your day.

>>33742312
you're not fooling anyone

>>33742351
It does not help either that they did shit like converting the Mig-29 into a naval plane with out improving the landing gear or meeting any of the necessary requirements for a naval plane. I think the streetshiters report they can only field something like a quarter of their carrier planes at any given moment. Russian quality engineering!

>>33741971
>and no fucks will be given as long as no lunatics hijack their nukes.
This is the big sticking point. I predict that the successor states that have the deployed nukes will be put in an "alliance with the US" in a way that's code for "we station US troops in your territory and you don't sell nukes to ISIS, or the troops sack your capital city." We have a similar arrangement with Pakistan.

>>33742351
>Spoilers, it involves a shitton of Paveways ruining your day.
Even the Super Taco (US designation A-29) can chuck JDAMs nowadays, and we have a LOT of JDAMs.

>>33742373
let it go. You embarrassed yourself by false accusation of samefag and now you're still trying to cling on to lost honor like your mom clings on to the neighbor's dick every morning.

It's just pitiful.

>>33741380
>>33741406
Sources? I know a lot of migs aren't flyable anymore, but I'm curious to where you're getting this from?

>>33742412
>From 1998 to November 2016, Boeing completed over 300,000 JDAM guidance kits, and is now building them at a rate of over 130 kits per day.
Scary to think how many they're putting out

>>33742474
Hey, it's a lot cheaper to shove a tailkit onto an old Mk82 made in the 70's than it is to purchase a whole new LGB or make a new design

>>33742108
5.45x39 doesn't cost 20 cents to manufacture, that's the retail price you get in the US you retard, it's likely more so closer to 5 cents or less.

>>33742389
Source? Other sources say otherwise. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-29k.htm

Wouldn't India be bitching about the landing gear too? http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/naval-aviation/2016/08/10/india-mig-29k-aircraft-navy-defects/88510782/

>>33741380
OP still has no sources

>>33742737
>didn't read

>>33741380
>The Su-35 is really an Su-27
About as much as that super-duper Hornet prototype is the basic F-18.
>instead of vacuum tubes
It has never had vacuum tubes, imbecile. And while we're at it, when will Americans put FBW at their F-15s? It is getting really pathetic by now.
>That makes the Su-35 a solid Generation IV+ fighter
Su-27SM and Su-30SM are solid 4+ gen fighters. Su-35 is borderline 5th gen, only lacking VLO.
>This is indicative of Russia's military problem. It is trapped by legacy systems.
No, it is only indicative of them losing two whole fucking decades after the fall of the USSR.
>Russia buying the Su-35 is like the US Air Force buying Block 60/62 F-16s instead of F-35s
More like Silent Eagles.
>It's not even like Russia has manpower
Manpower is irrelevant, as well as any preparations for a symmetrical conflict ever since the MAD became relevant.
>or numbers on it's side
It's the largest European military power by far. Like by REALLY far.
>>33741406
>Su-27 crash.jpg
Nice example of Ukrainian maintenance and Ukrainian lack of training.
>>33741971
>Russia's economy is the side of Germany's
Ftfy.
>>33742351
>they go through six times as many engine refurbishments as F-16s
Polish Fulcrums do at the lack of proper maintenance. Still is cheaper than keeping one F-16 engine airworthy for the same period of time.
>>33742389
>they did shit like converting the Mig-29 into a naval plane with out improving the landing gear or meeting any of the necessary requirements for a naval plane
But that's wrong you fucking retard.

>>33742743
>no sources
>All claims

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>>33742765
>Polish Fulcrums do at the lack of proper maintenance. Still is cheaper than keeping one F-16 engine airworthy for the same period of time.

bottom jej

>>33742765
India begs to differ with their MiG-29Ks having anywhere from 20-40% readiness, thanks to the RD-33MK engines.

>>33742785
>literally a link in the two posts that cites official documents

this is just sad

>>33742765
>more like silent eagles

I wish this would happen.

>>33742797
That's exactly the paper about Polish fulcrums, dummy.
>>33742815
India whines because Russians won't share T-50 technology with them as much as they would like to. It is known that poo in loos already managed to fuck up theur MiG-21s and Su-30, and if with MiG-21s it is arguable they are already too old, woth Su-30 it really is an indicative of Indian production and maintenance quality.

>>33742611
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/auditors-report-questions-indias-latest-naval-acquisition-45-mig-29k-fighters-1436614

From the Indian Press it's self. The Mig-29K has a horrific readiness rate. Proper carrier planes need to be built up from the ground up, hap hazard modifications like strengthened landing gear and folding wings don't account for everything.

>>33742917
are you retarded?

the study even found that it was cheaper to have an f-16 than a fulcrum, that was the entire point of the study.

how are you this retarded?

>>33742901
It's pointless when you already have a somewhat working 5th gen light fighter, i.e. F-35. Russia only has T-50 in development, so they are buying Su-27SM/30SM/34/35 to saturate their air forces with modern multi-role aircraft.

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>>33742510
Well we're doing that, too. The GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb is like a skinny JDAM with pop out wings, and the F-35 will be able to carry eight of them internally. That's eight separate targets per aircraft per sortie, all from stealth config so enemy air defenses can't do shit. It also poses a design problem in air defense strategy - putting out enough watts to jam the guidance system of an SDB means an EW plane (EA-18G, another F-35, etc.) can drop an AGM-88 HARM right up your tailpipe and then you're back where you started.

>>33742926
>The Mig-29K has a horrific readiness rate.
Due to being operated by poo in loos.
>Proper carrier planes need to be built up from the ground up, hap hazard modifications like strengthened landing gear and folding wings don't account for everything.
MiG-29K is was developed as a naval fighter right away, dumbass. Do some googling before posing, imbecile.
>>33742933
If all you have is Polish Fulcrums without proper maintenance this might very much be the case.

>>33742971
Doesn't JDAM has wings too? Or was it only JSOW, or whatever is it called?

>>33742926
The link I posted earlier says some of the same things, but even their avionics is bad? Jesus Christ, I guess India's screwed unless it wants to buy J-15s from China.

>>33742979
>Due to being operated by poo in loos.
If the MiG-29K is so great, how come Russia isn't fielding it? Fulcrums are teeny tiny compared to Flankers so they'd be the logical choice for a carrier with
>A
>FUCKING
>RAMP
like the smokestack special the russkies have.

>>33743000
No, JDAMs are just a nosecap and some better fins that keep the same basic "generic bomb" shape.

>>33742393
>>and no fucks will be given as long as no lunatics hijack their nukes.This is the big sticking point. I predict that the successor states that have the deployed nukes will be put in an "alliance with the US" in a way that's code for "we station US troops in your territory and you don't sell nukes to ISIS, or the troops sack your capital city." We have a similar arrangement with Pakistan.

I'd say that they will be asked to give them up in return for e.g. EU trade deals or US investment.

The dangerous phase is when chunks of rotting meat start falling off Russia like meat, Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, Chinese annexing land in the east

If anything Russia trying to keep up with the big players militarily and globally instead of addressing actual strategic needs is going to hasten this

>>33742979
No dude, their MiG-29Ks are too new to have these issues through poor maintenance, this is from the factory issues dude.

>>33742979
>without proper maintenance

Prove it already. You've provided nothing so far and you've shown you're a retard.

>>33743022
Don't forget Japan claiming the Kurils and Sakhalin, and maybe a piece of the mainland. They've wanted that since 1905.

>>33742765
>>>33741971 (You)>Russia's economy is the side of Germany'sFtfy.


Nope

That's a plain lie

Italy and Russia have almost exactly the same GDP and Italy is in recession

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Italy/Russia/Economy

The German economy is almost 30$ larger than Italy or Russia

Russia is a nothing really.

>>33743011
>If the MiG-29K is so great, how come Russia isn't fielding it?
But they do, idiot.
>Fulcrums are teeny tiny compared to Flankers so they'd be the logical choice for a carrier
Naval Flankers were deployed as specifically solely interceptors and possible Moskit missile carriers. Since the doctrine was changing by the and of the Cold War Soviets declared a competition for a multi-role naval fighter and stealthy Su-27KM won it, but by that time the country collapsed. One and a half decade later MiG-29K became a subject of export interest which gave them enough money to put it into production and eventually buy it for their carrier as well. Like I said, do some fucking googling.

>>33743041
>Don't forget Japan claiming the Kurils and Sakhalin, and maybe a piece of the mainland. They've wanted that since 1905.


Anything could happen with Japan which is also in a decline, but being a mono culture and island based it is not going to break up like Russia which has a plurality of ethic groups and even languages as well as some Islamic zones with their own ethnic groups..

Russia is a not a danger. Russian breakup is.

Look even at the Russian posters here. They genuinely don't know that the Russian economy is the same size as Italy.

They think they are an imperial military force and they just are not.

The EU states could crush Russia even if the US vanished tomorrow. So could China

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>>33743025
Oh really? Then how come Russian ones are fine? They are like 7 years old, it is more than enough time of poo in loo maintenance to fuck anything up. Like I said, even brand new Su-30MKI are suffering from it.
>>33743029
Prove what? The fact that Poland sided with the US right away and didn't maintain the Fulcrums it got from the Germans who also sided with the US? Algeria is more than happy with its Fulcrums and is not buying any Falcons instead even in spite of that time some Russian factory fucked up parts for MiG-29 which resulted in Algerians returning them back.
>>33743073
>That's a plain lie
No, it is not.

>>33743114
>Look even at the Russian posters here. They genuinely don't know that the Russian economy is the same size as Italy.
>They think they are an imperial military force and they just are not.
They probably don't pay a lot of attention to exchange rates except when they play games on Steam. The Russian economy would be 2-3x as large if the Ruble hadn't taken a gigantic shit in recent years.

>>33743129
>I have no sources for what I say, but trust me, everything that shows the abyssmal performance of Russian engines is wrong!

k

>>33743074
german GDP is 69% greater than Russias.

Russias is the same as Italy (in recession)

Why are you vatniks even playing at being a global ya de ya. What's the point?

All this mil expenditure in Ukraine and the mid east is just going to make Russia breakup faster.

>>33743011
>If the MiG-29K is so great, how come Russia isn't fielding it?
kek
Someone with no knowledge in a subject arguing about it, this must be /k/

>>33743145
German GDP is about 5% greater than Russia's.

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>>33743145
>Why are you vatniks even playing at being a global ya de ya. What's the point?
Delusion about their military might is a Russian tradition going back to at least the 19th century. The Soviet Union was a unique period in Russian history for at least partially living up to the hype.

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>>33743129
>>33743162
>using PPP

>>33743129
You don't get to use purchasing power parity as a handwave for GDP when your country exports oil, guns, vodka, food, and mail order brides, and imports nearly everything else you dumb fucking vatnik. How many months' wages did that PC cost you?

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>>33743129
>>That's a plain lie No, it is not.

If anything I am being generous saying Russia's economy is the same size as Italy

Why are you lying?

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>>33743183
>But muh dorrur! DORRUR!

>>33743210
You do get to use it when talking about military technology that is almost exclusively domestically produced.
>>33743212
>Why are you lying?
Why are you?

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>>33743176
Are you the same butthurt t*rk who was mad about the Battle of Sinop being "unfair"?

>>33743162
>German GDP is about 5% greater than Russia's.

Nope sorry utter bullshit

1 United States 16,768.050 17,418.925 22.53% North America
2 China 9,469.125 10,380.380 13.43% Asia
3 Japan 4,919.564 4,616.335 5.97% Asia
4 Germany 3,731.427 3,859.547 4.99% Europe
5 United Kingdom 2,680.123 2,945.146 3.81% Europe
6 France 2,807.306 2,846.889 3.68% Europe
7 Brazil 2,391.029 2,353.025 3.04% South America
8 Italy 2,137.615 2,147.952 2.78% Europe
9 India 1,875.157 2,049.501 2.65% Asia
10 Russia 2,079.134 1,857.461 2.40% Europe

>>33743266
Nope, American. The one good thing Russia's navy ever did was keep the British out of the US Civil War.

>>33743267
1 China 23,194,411
— European Union[n 1] 20,852,702
2 United States 19,417,144
3 India 9,489,302
4 Japan 5,420,228
5 Germany 4,134,668
6 Russia 3,938,001
7 Indonesia 3,257,123
8 Brazil 3,216,031
9 United Kingdom 2,905,392
10 France 2,833,064

Stay mad.

>>33743241
>>Why are you lying?Why are you?

I'm not and all the other readers here can go and compare russias gdp with that of Italy and Germany very easily and see that I am not.

Russia is of no great consequence as an economy and an economy is the backbone of a military capability. Not bullshit on here.

Why are you so self deceiving about everything to do with Russia from its bogue military vapourware to its economy?

What fucking good does that do Russia except make you look like a pack of deluded idiots or liars?

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>>33743287
At least you remember as much.

>>33743305
>I'm not and all the other readers here can go and compare
Indeed, which is why I'm asking why are you lying.

>>33743304
purchasing power parity (PPP) calculations not raw GDP, in other words you are just bullshitting. Is it that you cannot personally accept the fact, and it is fact that the Russian GDP is the same size as Italy's (in recession) or do you really think that deceiving other readers makes a shit of difference to the situation?

Lets for one deranged moment use PPP, the Russian economy is STILL smaller than Germanys, its a fucking flyspeck compared to the EU the USA or China.

Russia is a nothing.

Now we don't get to use purchasing power parity GDP because that is self deceiving sophistry based on saying that you can survive in Russia in a collapsing post communist apartment block in Vladivostok with no heating on some boiled cabbage for very little.

Russia has the same size GDP as Italy.

How insane would it be if Italy suddenly annexed half of Albana and sent its military and air force to unilaterally support some tinpot in the middle east and picking fights with the USA and EU?

How fucking nuts is that?

An how long before Italy collapsed if it did that?

You with me yet?

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>>33743319
I have nothing against the Russian people per se. Hell, two of my great grandparents came to the US from imperial Russia. I just think vatniks angrily squatposting about how their beat up junkers can totally take down the best American tech and pilots is silly. Even dumb old Tomahawk missiles zipped by the S-400 in Syria.

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>>33743287
Saying, Russians also sold Alaska specifically to the US partially to deny the Brits the long Pacific coastline.

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>>33743176
Good to see the work of an hour or so still being circulated to much consternation and asshurt. Maybe I should write those up more often.

Cheers, m8.

>>33743400
>"Raw GDP" is only GDP in muh dorrur
Like I said, irrelevant to the topic.
>Russia is a nothing.
An American can't be this mad about Russia even in 2017. I'm betting you are a paid iArmy bot or someone equally retarded.

>>33741380
Yes I think everyone knows that Russia can't afford new toys that are decent. There is nothing they can do about it.

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>>33743406
>vatniks angrily squatposting about how their beat up junkers can totally take down the best American tech and pilots is silly
Apart from genuine retards it is mostly "you are shitposting so I'm going to shitpost too" to my understanding.
>Tomahawk missiles zipped by the S-400 in Syria
that would be true if Russiand have ever indented to shoot them down on the first place, which is just not the case in real life. I get it could be the point if they ever claimed they were even trying to, but they did not.
Also this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_frigate_Alexander_Nevsky

>>33743444
this is just embarrassing

>>33743444
>An American can't be this mad about Russia even in 2017.
When you fuck with our elections, constantly shill every remotely relevant comment board you can find and generally constantly act like the suppurating asshole of geopolitics just because you wish it was still the "good old days" of 1965, well, expect some pushback.

>inb4 u mad
You asked. Act like a bitch, get slapped like a bitch.

>>33743319
>where did everything go so wrong
Stalin.

>>33743444
>>"Raw GDP" is only GDP in muh dorrurLike I said, irrelevant to the topic

No nominal GDP is precisely relevant to the topic, unless you seriously believe that you don't need an economy to finance advanced weapon system production

For fuck sake are you illiterate?

I doubt it, well except for what knowing what nominal GDP is.

Do you think Italy today can be a global military and political superpower on its own?

I the answer is no then well done. You just realised something about President Putin.

The question is how long before Russia's breakup which every single factor in Putin's policies is contributing to hasten.

The danger in Russia is not your vapourware tanks or aircraft carriers, it is in russias collapse and what lunatic gets their finger on a nuclear weapon.

They will be no eternal novorossiya, that is certain. It is as stupid as saying Italy today is going to create a new roman empire, or is able to.

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>>33743525
>On 25 September 1868, on her way home from a visit to Piraeus, where she had participated in the celebration of Greek King George’s wedding to Grand Duchess Olga of Russia, and while carrying Grand Duke Alexei, son of Tsar Alexander II, Alexander Nevsky became shipwrecked off the coast of Thyboron, a fishing village in Jutland.

>The vessel was travelling by sail at that time and both the admiral (who had been responsible for Grand Duke Alexei's naval education) and the ship's captain miscalculated the ship's position due to incorrect drift information recorded in the pilot book. Buffeted by rain, Alexander Nevsky struck a sandbar, and her masts and some of the ship's cannons had to be pitched into the sea to prevent the vessel from immediately capsizing.

>>33741380
This post is remarkably accurate.

>>33743444
>>Russia is a nothing.An American can't be this mad about Russia even in 2017. I'm betting you are a paid iArmy bot or someone equally retarded


I'm posting from a non NATO nationality actually. I just get sick of reading complete bullshit from Russians. Do you actually have a national problem with truth and reality?

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>>33743547
>>33743547
Wow. Concise. To the point. Still with just the right amount of snark.

You. You I like.

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>>33743547
>you fuck with our elections
So someone equally retarded then. Okay. You can piss off to pol now.
>>33743548
Rather Lenin right away. I mean the SU wanted to join NATO at its very eve.
>>33743550
>nominal GDP is precisely relevant to the topic
GDP in muh dorrur is only relevant to the topic of average Russians buying American poultry, though I think this was mainly the case during Bush's presidency.
>>33743557
Was mainly taking about this:
>During the American Civil War, Russian-American relations were very generally cooperative. Alone among European powers, Russia offered oratorical support for the Union, largely due to the view that the U.S. served as a counterbalance to the British Empire.[16]
>During the winter of 1861–1862, the Imperial Russian Navy sent two fleets to American waters to avoid their getting trapped if a war broke out with Britain and France. Many Americans at the time viewed this as an intervention on behalf of the Union, though historians deny this.[17] The Alexander Nevsky and the other vessels of the Atlantic squadron stayed in American waters for seven months (September 1863 to June 1864).[18]

>>33743550
>The question is how long before Russia's breakup which every single factor in Putin's policies is contributing to hasten.


I actually just had a thought.

Is this deliberate?

Why would the Russian oligarchy want the breakup of Russia? How would they gain?

>>33743646
>Why would the Russian oligarchy want the breakup of Russia? How would they gain?
Smaller, easier to control governments in resource rich areas where all their mineral and energy based production is. Independence from retarded Kremlin economic policies and internecine warfare. Distance from Putin's control, as long as Caesar gets his due.

Not sure how many of these reasons are operative, but just off the top of my head there are dozens of reasons why the people who control the mineral and energy wealth of the country would wish for a more fragmented political reality in Russia and her neighbors.

>>33743547
>fucked with our elections
Can this fucking meme die already, I don't even care about the fucking elections anymore since trump sold us up a shit river. However if Trump is a fucking Kremlin spook he is the shitiest one yet with that intervention in Syria....

>>33743702
>However if Trump is a fucking Kremlin spook he is the shitiest one yet with that intervention in Syria....
You don't need to be a spook to be a useful idiot, anon. Jesus. Is this baby's first day on the internet?

>>33743736
One thing I'm glad about is that this "Russians hacked us" shit is a perfect indicative of a complete retards not worth wasting time on.

>>33743644
>GDP in muh dorrur

I'm afrid that no matter how you try and play GDP figures the facts stand that Russia's economy is a tiny tiny fragment of the EU, US, or China, it is not even an economic rival to Japan or Germany alone.

You need a big economy to fund advanced weapons system production. It is very expensive.

Why did the USA crush Japan in WW2?

Economics.

Now before you get all red in the face about something something Russian fighting spirit.

Why did Russia collapse in 1917?

Why did the USSR collapse?

That's right a weak economy trying to fund a massive military.

yet here Russia is again, with an economy the size of Italy, slowly turning into a pariah state MAKING MORE FUCKING TANKS

Are you with me?

You don't need tanks, or the crimea. You need an economy that matches your insane national aspirations to re-establish the empire of Catherine the Great. You do not have it.

Russia will breakup, just as the Russian empire and the USSR did, for exactly the same reasons.

>>33743695
>>Why would the Russian oligarchy want the breakup of Russia? How would they gain?Smaller, easier to control governments in resource rich areas where all their mineral and energy based production is. Independence from retarded Kremlin economic policies and internecine warfare. Distance from Putin's control, as long as Caesar gets his due.Not sure how many of these reasons are operative, but just off the top of my head there are dozens of reasons why the people who control the mineral and energy wealth of the country would wish for a more fragmented political reality in Russia and her neighbors.


Ah each tribe in the Russian oligarchy gets their own fiefdom.

Interesting.

>>33743770
>it is not even an economic rival to Japan or Germany alone
It is exactly that.

>>33742917
>That's exactly the paper about Polish fulcrums, dummy.
>Having to buy 6 engines is cheaper than one

If they west stopped buying Russian oil and gas due to hostilities the Russian economy would immediately implode. Russia IS a meme.

>>33743547
>Russians hacked the election meme
Dude, you're not even wrong about the rest of the stuff but holy shit, really? You actually believe this?

>>33743846
>Dude, you're not even wrong about the rest of the stuff but holy shit, really? You actually believe this?
Where did I say they hacked our elections? I said they fucked with them.

Payed for disinformation, fake news and shitposters on a massive scale? Yep. Paid for "outside" actors to hack and release politically active information from any and all parties involved? Yep. Held extra-legal meetings and negotiations with members of certain candidtates' cabinet? Absolutely.

Hack the actual election? Not a fucking chance.

Stop falling for bullshit scarecrow memes. No one hacked the election. People did, however, employ sophisticated information manipulation techniques to influence it heavily.

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>>33743886
>No one hacked the election. People did, however, employ sophisticated information manipulation techniques to influence it heavily.
This. Y'all acting like retards.

>>33743829

Russia exports raw commodities and cheap crappy weapons to brown people.

Japan and Germany have manufacturing and export economies.

You know who has raw commodity based export economies?

Third world nations.

That being said EVEN if you use GDP PPP, nominal GDP or just about any measure of a nations economy Russia has a smaller economy that either Germany or Japan.

So why are you trying to lie to reader. I'm not they can go and look that up.

And how insane would it be if Germany or Japan declared that they were going to try and establish new military empires on their own?

Do you have any idea how tiny Russia's engine of war, its economy is compared to the EU, US or China?

The word psychotic has a specific meaning

Psychosis is characterized by an impaired relationship with reality. And it is a symptom of serious mental disorders.

Is modern Russia psychotic?

>>33743927
>Is modern Russia psychotic?

I would question the use of the qualifier "modern" but yes.

>>33743927
>And how insane would it be if Germany or Japan declared that they were going to try and establish new military empires on their own?
Anon, I'm with you on everything else, but 1933 called and wanted me to poke you in the eye for this spectacularly silly example.

>inb4 different now than it was then
Not really as much as you might think:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

>>33743886
"Hacking" the election is the colloquial phrase used to decribe the allegation against Russian interference. You knew what I meant. Don't be pedantic.

As far as that goes there is literally no evidence other than a dozen and a half agencies all under the same partisan DNS under an administration of the party opposed to the winner of the election signing off on a half assed investigation. When you need to include the USCG in your list to bolster numbers you might be bullshitting.

>>33743973
>As far as that goes there is literally no evidence other than a dozen and a half agencies all under the same partisan DNS under an administration of the party opposed to the winner of the election signing off on a half assed investigation. When you need to include the USCG in your list to bolster numbers you might be bullshitting.
Plus several dozen EU agencies and other even more impartial observers noting similar tactics being employed against them.

All this balanced against... what? A barely literate billionaire man-baby with vested interest and... Vladimir Putin?

You say consider the source. I say right back at you, junior.

>>33743997
Jesus. I thought I was alone on /k/ in this. Thank you, anon.

>>33743973
>As far as that goes there is literally no evidence other than a dozen and a half agencies

That's pretty damn good evidence.

I've noticed this trend

>you can't trust the newspapers, it's lamestream media
>you can't trust intelligence agencies or law enforcement, they're part of the deep state
>don't trust foreign countries, the military, individual experts, or literally anyone else who contradicts the president
>by the way, if the President himself says something stupid, he was either joking or playing some kind of four dimensional chess

>>33743997
I bet you believe the claims that the sex attacks in Europe by migrants were organized by Putin himself.

>>33744032
Oh shit we're already at the "strawman arguments and passive aggressive sulking" stage.

>>33743966
>>And how insane would it be if Germany or Japan declared that they were going to try and establish new military empires on their own?Anon, I'm with you on everything else, but 1933 called and wanted me to poke you in the eye for this spectacularly silly example.

It is by now means silly. Germany and Japan effectively ceased to exist as they were because they did so. Economics and demographics. The idea that 2017 Germany or Japan would attempt an expansionist military empire is ludicrous because it is self evident that given the size of their economies and populations they would get crushed. However the Russian economy is not the same size as 2017 Germany or Japan, it is smaller and wholly dependent on foreigners buying unprocessed gas and oil, If Russia antagonises those foreigners and they stop buying Russia economically implodes in a few months.

>>33744029
>>you can't trust the newspapers, it's lamestream media
>>you can't trust intelligence agencies or law enforcement, they're part of the deep state
>>don't trust foreign countries, the military, individual experts, or literally anyone else who contradicts the president
>>by the way, if the President himself says something stupid, he was either joking or playing some kind of four dimensional chess
Don't forget:
>if Sputnik News, RT, Vladimir Putin or the Russian MoD says it, you must take it for gospel, have it framed in your home and never question it. Anyone who does is a vile pinko commie fascist anarchist CTR hillbot shill for the deep state.

>>33744029
>four dimensional chess
Anon... Chess is, by nature, four dimensional as it happens over time and is often timed.

I believe the meme you were reaching for is 17 dimensional chess.

>>33744029
Except in this case the guy overseeing the people making the claim lied directly to congress about drag net collection practices that affect every American.

>If the president says it he was just joking.
Sometimes he is, sometimes he's not. Either way he comes across as a retard more often than not. I won't disagree with you there. I'm not going to blindly defend Trump or Republicans. However, blindly trusting spooks with no evidence and their claims of, "No totally trust us that we have evidence but we can't show you because reasons," is silly.

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>>33744029
>4D Chess
excuse you cuck. he's transcended to 20-dimensional chess since the inaguration.

>>33744058
>The idea that 2017 Germany or Japan would attempt an expansionist military empire is ludicrous because it is self evident that given the size of their economies and populations they would get crushed.
Yet they did exactly that starting in 1933 and working in earnest by 1939. That's all I was pointing out. Economic realities are either often divorced from political decision making or affect it in incredibly screwy ways.

>>33744083
>17 dimensional chess.

You'd need a lot more dimensions that that to make the Russian economy support weapons programmes that could compete with China, the USA or EU.

>>33744029
>>you can't trust the newspapers, it's lamestream media
>>you can't trust intelligence agencies or law enforcement, they're part of the deep state
Both of those are literally true though, with some rare, well-known exceptions. You're just butthurt.

>>33744095
>However, blindly trusting spooks with no evidence and their claims of, "No totally trust us that we have evidence but we can't show you because reasons," is silly.
When the intelligence communities in over a dozen countries agree on something, it gets pretty hard to ignore, anon.

>>33744127
>Both of those are literally true though, with some rare, well-known exceptions. You're just butthurt.
And you are a tosser of Alex Jones' salad and sadly too brain damaged for rational rebuttal.

>>33743022
I'm sure that after what happened in Ukraine they'll be happy to give up their nukes.

>>33744130
All countries who's leaders actively supported the opposition and were so ass blasted when Trump won they didn't even have congratulatory letters prepared.

It's only bad when Russia influences elections tho, right?

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>>33744139
Alex Jones had more accurate election coverage than MSNBC, and media collusion is pretty well documented at this point. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

>>33744107
>Yet they did exactly that starting in 1933 and working in earnest by 1939. That's all I was pointing out. Economic realities are either often divorced from political decision making or affect it in incredibly screwy ways.


That's true. You can't quantify insanity or national suicidal tendencies. However the fact is Russia is not in the position of having the capacity to militarily threaten the EU, USA or China because it is an economy with the size of Italy and as it stands all these vastly bigger (militarily, economically, demographically) bower blocks by and large dwarf any Russian military threat both individually or collectively and each is nuclear armed. Neither does the Russian form of military imperialism reap and economic reward but rather act as a further drain both economically and demographically

There are three options

a)Russia is a psychotic nation
b)The Russian leadership want Russia to break up
c)The Russian leadership is stupid/incoherent/non existent

Whether they do wish to effect US elections, incite polarisation in the EU use immigration as a weapon etc is all very interesting and may or may not be the case but none of that matters when Russia is facing break up and collapse again.

>>33744160
>All countries who's leaders actively supported the opposition and were so ass blasted when Trump won they didn't even have congratulatory letters prepared.
Always an excuse. Always a deep evil actor, an international conspiracy. Nothing is ever what it appears to be on its' face.

If it walks like a fucking duck, talks like a fucking duck, shits on my goddamn dock like a fucking duck, and tastes great roasted with a citrus glaze like a fucking duck, oh, and most of the world's top tier intelligence agencies think its a fucking duck, well, guess what? IT JUST MIGHT BE A FUCKING DUCK.

>>33744179
We have now officially left reality, ladies and gentlemen. Hold on to your ducks.

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>>33744179
>Alex Jones had more accurate election coverage than MSNBC

>>33744188
You're ignoring the most probably option

>Russian foreign policy is primary intended to achieve domestic political objectives

>>33744193
>If it walks like a fucking duck, talks like a fucking duck, shits on my goddamn dock like a fucking duck, and tastes great roasted with a citrus glaze like a fucking duck, oh, and most of the world's top tier intelligence agencies think its a fucking duck, well, guess what? IT JUST MIGHT BE A FUCKING DUCK.
Can we meet up on your dock and drink good sipping bourbon while shooting the shit? Seems like that would be fun. Just saying.

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>>33744215
If any of you fucking degenerates come near my dock, I'll teach you what I teach the ducks. Citrus glaze and all.

Unless you're bringing REALLY good bourbon. Then we'll see.

>>33744201
>>Russian foreign policy is primary intended to achieve domestic political objectives
This. So many people forget this about Russia and China.

>>33744201
>You're ignoring the most probably option>Russian foreign policy is primary intended to achieve domestic political objectives

The only context would be again to hasten the new iron curtain and in turn hasten the break up of Russia,

Does Putin want Russia to collapse and why?

That's where my thinking is currently focused because nothing else makes any sense.

Rather than Trump being a Russian agent is in fact Putin an American asset to expedite the breakup of Russia and the final removal of the nuclear threat that has dogged the USA and Europe for 50 years?

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>>33744193
>If it walks like a fucking duck, talks like a fucking duck, shits on my goddamn dock like a fucking duck, and tastes great roasted with a citrus glaze like a fucking duck, oh, and most of the world's top tier intelligence agencies think its a fucking duck, well, guess what? IT JUST MIGHT BE A FUCKING DUCK.
Don't mind me. Just posting in the shadow of brilliance.

>>33744193
>There's always a deep actor
Yeah, there is.
>Top tier intelligence agencies
The same guys that claimed WMDs in Iraq when there were none as a cassus belli for an invasion because the Bush administration needed one? Yeah, they're totally impartial and free from influence from the party in power.

>Duck analogies
What has Trump done that would make him favorable to the Russians? Wouldn't pro Russia policy add credence to the claim that he was supported by them? So far there's been no quacking.

More like there's a who sometimes lies to you saying there's a duck down on the pond quacking away but don't bother to look, and nvm that he has duck decoys in his shed.

>>33744259
>find an enemy that doesn't look likely to go away no matter what you do
>piss them off
>use hostile foreign actors as an excuse to deflect criticism and maintain authoritarianism

>>33744277
>free from influence from the party in power

So the intelligence agencies just went out of their way to piss off the people who have hiring and firing power over their leadership for the next four years?

>>33744280
Bingo. Same thing the Norks do. Though with Russia, you also have heavy involvement in their neighbors because they're trying to expand their sphere of influence as much as possible before their military reaches the point where it can't keep up with their neighbors.

Every considered that Trump just used Russian media support and then discarded the Russians like a cheap hooker?

>>33744291
>Trump is illegitimate
>We must impeach
>#Resist

Now his admin has been road blocked by Democrats wanting to be twice as obstructionist as the Republicans were, while overanalyzing his every move.

The Intel communities job security is pretty good considering if he started firing people the media would throw a shit fit for a month.

>>33744291
>So the intelligence agencies just went out of their way to piss off the people who have hiring and firing power over their leadership for the next four years?
Right? I just cannot fathom why people go so far out of their way to ascribe the most byzantine possible methods and motives to groups and agencies in these conspiracy theories while completely ignoring the dozen or so much more pragmatic reasons and motives for them to NOT do it.

>>33744259
>Does Putin want Russia to collapse and why?
No, he just wants to consolidate more power and get richer. Russia's actions are pretty easily explained in this context.

>>33744277
>Wouldn't pro Russia policy add credence to the claim that he was supported by them?
He was vocally pro-russia during the campaign and up until the past couple weeks when he flipped his stance on Syria he was being incredibly soft on them. Where the hell have you been?

>>33741380
Major problem is this. The Russians and Chinese both know that for now the Kinematic game is over, and the americans have cornered the stealth game early on. What is left?

Develop stealth countermeasures, and better hit to kill weapons.

That means better missiles, LiDar, and proper laser weaponry.

The Americans have already gotten the edge of 2, and likely 3 of those.

Trying to catch up in every front is a waste, just focus on engines, materials, sensors and a better weapon.

Never forget an aircraft is a platform for a payload, and the payload is the most important part of a mission.

>>33744277
>The same guys that claimed WMDs in Iraq when there were none as a cassus belli for an invasion because the Bush administration needed one? Yeah, they're totally impartial and free from influence from the party in power.
Technically they couldn't provide sufficient evidence but Bush pushed the narrative anyways.

>>33744316
Yup. That's the scary thing about Trump people don't realize. He's not nearly as incompetent as he makes himself out to be - he's alarmingly good at manipulating people to get things done his way. That's not to say everything he does is part of some master plan, but he's not completely retarded.

>>33744327
>Vocally pro Russian
>Not wanting to get into another war, especially with Russia is "vocally pro Russian"

>>33744319
>Now his admin has been road blocked by Democrats wanting to be twice as obstructionist as the Republicans were, while overanalyzing his every move.
How exactly is he roadblocked? He has a party majority in the House and Senate, plus now a party-friendly SCOTUS. If he hasn't accomplished jack shit yet, it's because he's too retarded to do things like check in with White House Counsel before issuing sweeping immigration orders or checking in with actual intelligence agencies and State before ordering large, involved raids on foreign soil.

>>33744309
>it can't keep up with their neighbors.

That's already happened. Even the existing NATO forces in European nations could fight Russia to a standstill in every category. Demographically even more so. Economically even more so.

Russia is an ex power it has ceased to be. All we are seeing is another phase in the collapse of what was the USSR.

>>33744352
>wanting to lift sanctions
>wanting to back Russia/Assad in Syria
>not pro-Russian

>>33743702
"Russia is fucking with our election by revealing we fucked with oir nomination!"

>>33744347
The problem is that those skills almost entirely exist around running a new con to cover the last one as it fades.

>>33744354
Filibuster still exists and most things still need a 60 vote threshold to pass.

>Party friendly SCOTUS
No, it's just back to where it was before Scalia died. You know, the same balance that ruled the ACA Constitutional.

>>33744347
A lot of US presidents play the retarded card. I've personally never bought into that.

Francis Bacon wrote an essay on deception called simulation and dissimulation

>>33744386
>Filibuster still exists and most things still need a 60 vote threshold to pass.
Explain how Obama passed the ACA in his first fucking 15 months on the job, then.

>>33744365
>"Russia is fucking with our election by revealing we fucked with oir nomination!"

Russia has been trying to effect foreign political arenas for 70 years. Most particularly the UK. It has never done them much good and it won't this time either.

>>33744408
Because he had the necessary majorities in each chamber (plus one Republican in the Senate) to pass it? Literally one Republican in the entire party voted for it. It was a strictly party line vote in the House.

>>33744374
And that's what's so scary - his cons tend to be pretty transparent attempts to enrich himself. A good thing to look for is his twitter shitposts. He tends to cover up more malicious things with a big shitpost on twitter - get the media riled up over some dumb thing you say and they won't have time to worry about a more complicated issue. He's done it in the past with the lawsuits he was settling just after the election. Then there's stuff like the F-35 shitposts, which were a very transparent attempt to take credit for planned price reductions.

And more recently, there's things like
>not putting assets in a blind trust, having his daughter on his staff
>weekly trips to properties he owns where he can charge all of the personnel he has to bring along
It's a hilariously transparent con.

>>33744386
>You know, the same balance that ruled the ACA Constitutional.
Please to explain how it is unconstitutional. Don't forget to rehash the state sovereignty argument with it's incredibly anemic challenge to the commerce clause with citation of the necessary and proper clause.

Not everything is a partisan conspiracy, genius. Just because you don't like something does not automatically mean it is unconstitutional.

>>33744457
I didn't claim it was unconstitutional fuck nut. I used it as an example of how a 4-5 balanced SCOTUS can still rule in favor of Democrats.

>>33741380
Russians issue is this

Much like say, France, they have the ability to build top jets if the money is there. There home economy is not large enough to support such efforts. Which means they must export.

The issue with Russia is that Monkey versions of Soviet gear has a poor track record. Russia needs to have some conflict where one of their clients is facing off vs. Euro or US jets and knocks a few out of the sky. Heck, they do not have a good record vs. the F-16 which is now the inexpensive older fighter that a generation old.

>>33744454
>It's a hilariously transparent con.

That's politics. It always is. The main thing is that it keeps the kind of scheming power hungry people who may otherwise try to incite violence or establish dictatorship busy.

When you don't have it you wind up with Russia or north Korea, mao, the French terror .

Democracy is a hilariously transparent con. Until you realise that is its real merit. The joke is on the candidates and in the end the jokers are the electorate.

>>33741380
>The Su-35 is really an Su-27 (a 40 year old design) with refined aerodynamics, new engines and digital avionics instead of vacuum tubes

I agree with everything you say but this line is just stupid

A Dodge Demon is just a model A with some upgrades

>>33744445
>Because he had the necessary majorities in each chamber (plus one Republican in the Senate) to pass it? Literally one Republican in the entire party voted for it. It was a strictly party line vote in the House.
The 111th congress (Obama's first term) was 57-2-41 in the senate and 253-177 (not a super-majority, by the way) in the house when Obamacare was passed. The current 115th congress is 46-2-52 in the senate and 193-238 in the house. You're talking about a 5 and 15 seat swing respectively in majority. Yet what has Trump accomplished legislatively? They're in danger of a shutdown for lack of budget, for christ's sake.

>>33744457
Don't forget that the ACA is almost a straight Federal version of Mitt Romney's Massachusetts health care law.

2010 was a weird shift in Republican policy. Instead of doing, well, anything constructive they decided that nothing would go through unless they were the ones who'd get the credit. The problem is, they got so focused on being dickbags they forgot to ever be ready for when they had power again.

If russia is such a joke, why hasn't the US dealt with it- oh wait, you can't even defeat fucking rice farmers, hajis on hash, and drunk Serbs.

>>33744495
You said, and I quote:
>You know, the same balance that ruled the ACA Constitutional.
How does this not imply that you believe it was unconstitutional? Please elucidate.

I was making the simple point that not every decision is made on party lines. Sometimes, the decision is made simply because it is the correct one. Not nearly often enough, but sometimes.

>>33744509
>There home economy is not large enough to support such efforts. Which means they must export.

Nah. Arms exports while large relatively speaking are a small part of Russian GDP and could never actually propel Russian GDP very far. Sum zero game.

>>33744544
If Pakistan is such a joke, why hasn't India dealt with it- oh wait, it's nukes.

>>33744544
>If russia is such a joke, why hasn't the US dealt with it- oh wait, you can't even defeat fucking rice farmers, hajis on hash, and drunk Serbs.


They sure dealt with the USSR though.

Please remember the last people to actually fire on the Russian parliament was the Russian military.

>>33743129
>Then how come Russian ones are fine?
Then how come 2 fell into the drink with a couple of sorties from their carrier?

So the USSR, vastly more territory vastly more demographics a vastly greater GDP relatively was broken by a much smaller EU and USA.

Humm

Yet a much much smaller Russia, facing a much much bigger EU and US is going to succeed?

Don't think so.

>>33744563
Exporting in the Russian and France isn't about improving the GDP, but to increase the unit numbers which drives down costs.

For example, the sales of Rafale's is more about keeping the companies in money and lower unit costs then earning export revenues.

Both Russia and France cannot have viable aircraft development programs unless they can sell export versions to lower the unit cost and defray the sizable development costs.

>>33744563
>Nah. Arms exports while large relatively speaking are a small part of Russian GDP and could never actually propel Russian GDP very far. Sum zero game.
I notice a conspicuous lack of sources or actual numbers.

Also, consider the difference between funding operations and R&D at a design house like MiG as opposed to including ALL military O&M and manning, etc. in a comparison of total numbers between arms export and total military expenditures.

>>33744556
Because it was a conservative balanced Court ruling in favor if a progressives signature legislation.
>>33744531
>5 and 15 seat swing
Yeah, 5 seats in the Senate is pretty big. That was the majority that got it passed, plus the two "Independents" who vote liberal every time and the one Republican they managed to swing. Thanks for posting the numbers I was too lazy to go get.

>What has Trump passed?
Not a lot. Did you expect me to defend his administration? Because I already said I'm not going to.

>>33744646
>plus the two "Independents" who vote liberal every time
ITT: anon demonstrates his complete and abject ignorance of Maine politics

>>33744680
>Ignorance of Maine politics
Yeah, I'll admit guilt there. I'm in the other side of the country.

The 2 Independents in the Senate at the time were Lieberman and Sanders right? Both of them are pretty liberal, and did vote with the Democrats most of the time.

>>33744635
Frances economy again bigger and more modern than Russia's. It also hosts what is basically the EUs rival to Boeing

The comparison is mindless. Russia has an economy the size of Italy. It is not a global superpower that can now or ever will compete with the US, US or China in terms of military expenditure. It is simply not able to. In fact one of the chronic problems that has always dogged the post USSR Russia is the Russian states inability to repurpose the Russian military industrial complex to produce anything consumers want. The only manufacturing component of note in the Russian economy is arms. The rest is commodities. Russia can't even refine its own oil.

>>33744646
>Yeah, 5 seats in the Senate is pretty big.
You missed the part where he didn't have a supermajority in the House.

>>33741380
I would argue that Russia is actually a more credible military threat with relatively weak conventional forces than if they really built up a strong modern military.

No matter what, they're never going to actually have the firepower to beat the US in a conventional war. Their economy just isn't large enough. So whether they build 1000 new fighters or 50, it won't change the outcome of a shooting war with us if it comes to it.

But what building up a large conventional military does is create a much broader window of escalation between the first shot being fired and a full nuclear exchange. Meaning that the West would be less hesitant to engage them directly in border wars in places like the Baltic states. While Russia is militarily weak, the thought of directly fighting them is unthinkable, because almost any scenario in which there was war would have to go nuclear for them to avoid defeat.

>>33744563
>Nah. Arms exports while large relatively speaking are a small part of Russian GDP and could never actually propel Russian GDP very far.
20% of all manufacturing jobs in Russia are building defense products. ~1/3 of the total sales of are exports. (38 billion internal, 15 billion export.)

Do you want to rephrase what you are saying?

>>33742167

All with aging delivery systems that are increasingly marginalized.

>>33744724
>Meaning that the West would be less hesitant to engage them directly in border wars in places like the Baltic states

Tee bee aytch, unless the US is literally cucked to death, NATO obligations are going to win out.

>>33744721
He didn't need it. Go look at the vote tallies. The way the ACA was passed is the Senate took an unrelated bill, gutted it and wrote in the ACA, passed it under the previous bills docket number and sent it back to the House who passed it on a simple majority.

>>33744718
France economy is larger, but defense goods makes up a much larger portion of the Russian economy then France.

Also, the Russian Economy is not that much smaller then the french economy. (France is the 6th largest economy, Russia is the 9th.)

>>33744355
>>33744188
Not a vatnik here.
NATO tends to see warfare more like a tech and econômic thing when it's mostly a political think. The USSR infiltrated most of the world with 5th colum comunists. That and nukes are their real streangh, also China brought money to the comunist block, and togheter they will arm NK, Iran, and others to force the US into costly wars that will help their democrats ally ends for good the republican resistance with mass imigration like they did in Europe. It will take a miracle for the world to not fall under this globalist alliance of crony capitalists/Jew bankers/cultural marxists/ commie secret services/islamic jihad/organized crime.

>>33744779
>Russians and Chinese
>cooperating

good joke

>>33744641
>>33744641
>>Nah. Arms exports while large relatively speaking are a small part of Russian GDP and could never actually propel Russian GDP very far. Sum zero game.I notice a conspicuous lack of sources or actual numbers

Russia exported $15 billion worth arms this year and plans to keep this volume in 2016
That according to RT and compared to other sources and the trends since 2003 is probably optimistic. To get that in perspective russias exports in something like 500 billion.

So arms exports account for about 3% of Russian exports, maybe a bit more or less. The rest is consume domestically and is Chinese laundry economics.

The defence sector in Russia can't actually ever grow its exports enough to rise Russia's nominal GDP out of Italy tier.

>>33744779
>i-it totally doesn't matter if we can't win the game, guize!
>i'm super cereal!
>we were really playing this other, way more super complex game that we're totally winning while you were playing that one!
>XA! we totally win!

>>33744760
>France economy is larger, but defense goods makes up a much larger portion of the Russian economy then France. Also, the Russian Economy is not that much smaller then the french economy. (France is the 6th largest economy, Russia is the 9th.)


I think you are forgetting that France is in the EU and has access to a common market for nearly 700 million people as well as being a NATO member. Russia is none of these things.

>>33744799
>The defence sector in Russia can't actually ever grow its exports enough to rise Russia's nominal GDP out of Italy tier.
I was never saying it could. Merely noting that, as an example, to MiG or Sukhoi, a relatively small export in GDP terms goes a long way to funding and building prototypes for next generation aircraft, plus other R&D. It's also money the MoD doesn't have to task from other uses, like keeping the SSN/SSGN/SSBN flotillas operational.

>>33744795
They are masters of kabuki theather. EU, Rússia, China, Saudis, Iran, and many others agree in their disere to see a weaker USA so there is more space left for each of them push their model.

>>33743644
>I mean the SU wanted to join NATO at its very eve.
To be fair, that was just fucking with NATO and forcing them to send letters saying "No, you can't join, the whole purpose is to protect against you". It's like Austria-Hungary trying to join the Entente.

>>33744799
You keep speaking of "Italy Tier"

Thing is Italy economy and Russian Economy even if they are right now about the same size are based on industries that are vastly different.

Italy economy is based on Banking,specialized manufacturing, and farming.

Russian Economy is based on Oil, Mining, and Manufacturing, of which 20% of the workers are working in defense.

Italy defense sector is not a major cog in the Italian economy. While in Russia it is.

Maintaining sales of Russian Military goods, be it subs or aircraft is key to the Russian economy since 20% of the manufacturing jobs are defense related.

It like saying that the production of domestic appliances in Italy isn't important as it won't grow.

That not why it is key, it key for Italy to keep those jobs viable to not damage there economy as it key manufacturing jobs.

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>Insecured amerifats and chinks created own russian military hate thread with 31 posters and 189 replies
Don't be so jealous because russian tech is superior

>>33744779
Reminder

The USSR has a vast vast subersion system. It ran the baader meinhof, the red brigades, the red army faction, it incited racial tenstions in the US and middle east, it took over trade unions and political movements by facilitating useful idiots.

It did all these things, all of them intentionally toxic to the targeted nations.

The USSR failed. Is the kind of cheap Russian shilling that dominates pol and glp more effective than the Marxists of the 70s, not really.

Russian subversion has always relied on inciting groups against each other and they do seem to delight in this but it never actually accomplished anything for the USSR, neither will it for Russia. They may incite a neo-Nazi movement or a bunch of arabs to hate the USA and the next thing is that those same arabs are blowing up bits of Moscow or that neo-Nazi is rolling a tank over the Russian border. It has an uncontrollable aspect.

In WW1 one of the downsides of gas attacks was that the wind would change and it would come rolling back towards the side that released it. The same is true of Russian agit prot. It is a singularly useless and destructive tactic. They seem addicted to it though. I guess we will have to wait for the break up of Russia until its toxic filth finally ceases.

>>33744807
You seriously think there will be a ww3? Btw, I'm a right wings brazilian

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>>33741380
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW4I2fPPXFM&

>>33744819
No I am not forgetting that. So is Italy for that matter that you keep comparing Russia to.

The simple fact is that Defense goods is a major component of the Russian Manufacturing sector. Much more then say France or Italy, and since France, who has a larger economy, struggles to make military jets work without export sales, Russia needs export sales to keep itself viable.

>>33744826
>>The defence sector in Russia can't actually ever grow its exports enough to rise Russia's nominal GDP out of Italy tier.I was never saying it could. Merely noting that, as an example, to MiG or Sukhoi, a relatively small export in GDP terms goes a long way to funding and building prototypes for next generation aircraft, plus other R&D. It's also money the MoD doesn't have to task from other uses, like keeping the SSN/SSGN/SSBN flotillas operational.


You are missing the point. Russias economy is the size of Italy. Step back from the insanity and consider Italy trying to launch a military empire backed by indigenously produced weapons systems while talking on the rest of the EU and USA. Russia can burn itself out making increasingly dysfunctional weapons systems but there is no plausible end game that supports Russia being a military power. None.

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>>33744885
>Don't be so jealous because russian tech is superior

>>33744877
You are missing something.

Italy is in recession and russias economy is the same size, Russias defense sector may employ a lot of people but it only accounts for about 3% of russias exports and earnings. It is utter dead weight. Chinese laundry but instead of the Russian population washing each others shirts their are making crappy weapons. No economic growth. Economy only the size of Italy in recession CANNOT fund the development of weapons systems that can make Russia a global military player.

>>33744929
When 20% of your manufacturing sector is defense related and you have a near-Autarky economic system, it works since the military sales are key sources of hard currency.

>>33744931
It's not like anyone thinks that /k/ is competent when it comes to weapon and not just full of America/China internet defence forces desu

>>33744971
>Implying Russian gear has ever had good results against Western
>Implying any Russian fighter has a K:L greater than 1:0 except the Flanker
>From killing Fulcrums

>>33744971
>It's not like anyone thinks that /k/ is competent when it comes to weapon and not just full of America/China internet defence forces desu

Maybe it is just full of anons who are bored of vatnik bullshit.

>>33744898
The international comunist moviment created the USSR and grew stronger after it's demise. Racial tensions skyrocket in the US, and political correctness forced feminism, gay culture, and islamic invasion down our troats. Cultural Marxism is nastier than old school marxism.

>>33744963
>Economy only the size of Italy in recession CANNOT fund the development of weapons systems that can make Russia a global military player.
And as I and other have pointed out, the military sales are NOT to grow the economy, but to reduce the cost of the systems by spreading out the development costs to more units.

If you have a weapon system that costs 10 billion to develop, and you want to buy 200 units, that means it 50 million each.

But if you can sell another 300 to other nations, the unit cost drops to 20 million each, and the other nations pay for 60% (6 billion) of the cost. Meaning you only paying 4 billion for it.

>>33745007
>CHANGE IS SCARY!

>>33744965
>it works since the military sales are key sources of hard currency.

Unfortunately it does not work. It leaves you with 97% of your hard cash income via exports based on raw commodities to foreign nations. Should they cease taking those raw commodities or there is a glut your economy is fucked and when your economy is the size of Italy in recession and that happens you forget about being a military power

>>33745013
Usefull idiots are the firsts to die.

>>33745009
What do you not understand about the disparity between having an economy the size of Italy but thinking that Russia can EVER militarily match the US, EU or China. It can't. If anything the size of the defence industry in Russia is a complete liability to it.

>>33742765
this.

>>33745048
>Usefull idiots are the firsts to die.

yes but the USSR collapsed. So no idiots died. The modern left is just like radioactive contamination from the USSR. With time it will decay as it is fundamentally based on subversive falsehoods that become more evidently false as their claims are actually tested.

Think of all the Russian lives that have been completely wasted seeding the most toxic ideas possible and laugh. You only have one life and that is an utter waste of it, entirely self inflicted.

>>33745035
Anon.

When measured by PPP - the Russian economy is the the six largest economy in the world - right on pace with Germany.

Secondly, the sales of military hardware is important more about the jobs then anything else, defense industry produces a lot of high paying jobs for the Russian economy.


The fact that they maintained a strong defense industry and a military on par or stronger then the UK or France even when there economy was crap (1990s) means that they will be able to maintain themselves for the foreseeable future as a major military player and major arms exporter for years and decades to come. Only the US sells more arms.

>>33745067
There military is on par with France or UK.
they have nuclear weapons
Also, stop using "Nominal" GDP - that is misleading. PPP shows that the Russian economy is much larger then it appears.

>>33742765
>only lacking VLO.
And LPI radar
And LPI, high bandwidth datalink

>>33745116
>this.

So you are another idiot who thinks that Russia's economy being nearly if you really wish hard and squint the size of Germanys (it is not of course) that somehow sets Russia up to be a future military power rivalling the US, EU or China .

Laughable. Why are all you Russians so addicted to lying. It has no effect but to make people think you are retarded

>>33745150
>So you are another idiot who thinks that Russia's economy being nearly if you really wish hard and squint the size of Germanys (it is not of course)

IMF estimates of economies for 2017

China - 23 Trillion
US - 19 Trillion
India - 9 Trillion
Japan - 5.4 Trillion
Germany 4.1 Trillion
Russia - 3.9 Trillion

You where saying? I can give you a link if you insist.

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>>33745048
>Usefull idiots
Like the Vatniks who post shit like this?

>>33745182
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2017/01/weodata/index.aspx

Since I need to go to bed. Stop taking about economics when you can't even fucking look up a IMF report and don't know what the difference between Nominal and PPP GDP is.

>>33745118
>With time it will decay as it is fundamentally based on subversive falsehoods that become more evidently false as their claims are actually tested.
>I am panicked by social progress and hate how it makes me feel

>>33745143
PPP is discussed above and for other readers I will reiterate means purchasing power parity. In orther words as I said above that somehow because a communist era flat in Vladivostok and a cabbage costs less in Russia it means Russias economy is bigger.

Its not and no economist uses PPP or the function of comparing national economies except Russian shills. Even then the Russian economy if you were to take the distorted PPP GDP figures is literally a fragment of the size of the EU, USA, or Chinas economy. Not even a player, At best it would be smaller than Germanys or japans.

Russias military may indeed be fairly compared with lets say France, however Russia economy is not that of France being nearly entirely dependent on raw commodity exports and with manufacturing concentrated in a relatively unproductive 3% of exports in arms . Neither rance or the UK place themselves or propagandise themselves natonally as independent rivals to the USA, or China or as regional superpowers. Russia does. Russia as is evident to any k reader has a deluded population that cheerleads for a country with a relatively tiny economy that suffers from the delusion it is still a global military power.

>>33745194
>>With time it will decay as it is fundamentally based on subversive falsehoods that become more evidently false as their claims are actually tested.>I am panicked by social progress and hate how it makes me feel


It's not social progress. Nothing new on the face of the earth in terms of human behaviour. Just recurrent cycles of discovering why previous generations disavowed some behaviours all over again.

>>33744193
>Always an excuse. Always a deep evil actor, an international conspiracy. Nothing is ever what it appears to be on its' face.
You're being sarcastic but that's pretty accurate. Gamergate and then Trump winning torpedoed all kinds of nasty, slow-brewing plots to subvert the United States. Of course all the other countries were pissed that Trump won - they'd been getting rich at the expense of the American people for decades. Russia was just happy that "dude no-fly zones in syria lmao" Hillary didn't win and kick off WWIII.

>>33745219
>Eras when there was no way of directly measuring social effects except some dictators saying "because I say so."

It's interesting how you think your backwards beliefs are hard science.

>>33745194
>(((social progress)))
Nearly every plank in the Democratic Party platform involves damaging stable families, white people, men, US taxpayers, or some combination of the above. This includes the "environmental" stuff where the proposed remedies are suspiciously similar to socialism and act as a net wealth transfer to the third world.

>>33745230
>Gamergate and then Trump winning torpedoed all kinds of nasty, slow-brewing plots to subvert the United States

>Minority asshole groups acting in contrarian aggression are anything but a weak reactionary attack by the afraid regressives

>>33745252
>I'm completely full of shit, hear me parrot /pol/ memes!

>>33745202
You use PPP if it can be internally produced, Nominal if it requires purchasing from outside the nation.

Since the Russian Military programs are very Russian now that they cut ties with the Ukrainian companies, PPP is a much better measurement of what they can internally produce - which is on par with Germany. (200 billion dollar difference).

To say the six largest economy is nothing is stupidity.

Thing is, they are a regional superpower, that is why the EU and the US passed on direct confrontation with Russia even when they violated the Ukraine like a Baylor Coed meeting the football team.

I am far from a Russian cheerleader, but it rank stupidity to claim that Russia isn't a region power and one of the few nations that can project power to other nations even beyond it direct region. Not even China can claim that.

Only the US, UK, France, and Russia can do that. Japan and Germany could if they politically decided to build up the ability to do so. China will be able to do this in 10-15 years.

>>33745250
>backwards beliefs

My analysis of the Russian economy is far from based on any belief. It is based on stark facts. A regards the view of people who use phrases like social progress. I really have no interest in dribbling along with idiots. You swallowed the poison, or your parents did. Go and lie down.

>>33745219
>uneducated peasants and people completely ignorant of even the basic scientific knowledge of the day couldn't be reasoned with to stop perpetuating stupid habits in food preparation, cleanliness, disease exposure, etc.
>kosher laws and regulations like them are written into religions all over the world
>public health is improved

You see the problem with your argument? If religious law banned certain behaviors like eating certain seafood in certain ways because it was dangerous from a contamination/spoiling/etc. standpoint but you persisted in following those laws today because "they knew best", even though we know understand bacteria, anti-biotics and have refrigeration, well, that makes you a moron. Same argument can be made for Victorian norms RE: sexuality and promiscuity. Syphilis, chlamydia, etc. experience an explosion during the 15th century with the increase in worldwide shipping and trade. Social norm swing toward extreme prudishness and stigmatize brothels as a result.

Blindly accepting that all the shit your great grandfather thought was sinful or terrible without mature, rational consideration is a fucking stupid way to go through life.

>>33745292
>violated the Ukraine like a Baylor Coed meeting the football team.
kek

>>33742277

Well just imagine their readiness rates if the hardware wasn't so rugged.

>>33745292
>that Russia isn't a region power

It was once. At its height the USSR dominated all its neighbours. The USSR collapsed and the current state of Russia is just another stage in that, complete with Russians believing that with their tiny economy Russia is a global power still. Psychosis. Russia is going to break up.

>>33745300
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrU1hZxSEXQ

Reminder that Russia is in deep on regressive social policy, and they are fucked.

>all this autism
>>>/pol/


Russia has a shitty economy and anyone arguing differently is a fucking retard. They do not have the money to finance military projects on the same level as the US, and will continue to become more irrelevant as the years progress. Their power inherited from the "glory days" of the USSR's military is drying up.

>>33745304
I never mentioned religion once.

Please tae your fedora induced leanings elsewhere.

Social progress. O my sides.

>>33742277
Soviet (and russian airplanes in general) the idea was to have inexpensive costs to get in the air, but require major overhauls on a much more regular basis.

So in the cold war they had whole squadrons in regional facilities being overhauled. when that squadron was ready, another one went into overhaul.

Thus Russia still does not have good ready rates when it comes to aircraft.

Now there tanks are rugged, and also require small people to fit in them.

>>33743129
> and didn't maintain the Fulcrums it got from the Germans?

Yes. Prove that.

>>33745341
>regressive social policy

Ever occur to you that words like progressive or regressive without defining metrics are plain stupid?

Change for changes sake implies nothing.

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>>33745182
China is fucked

>>33745304
Technically though the Victorian prudishness was also a response to the prior generations excess. A lot of historical periods can be defined by rebellion of one generation against another's mores. The difference now, though, is that we actually can examine the real effects, not just depend on general emotional bullshit. Though there'll always be holdouts like that anon.

>>33745333
>Russians believing that with their tiny economy
Six largest in the world anon. Still top 10 even under nominal rates while they are in a recession.

It has a stronger military then any of its neighbors barring perhaps manland china and your views on there ability.

They are one of only a handful of countries able to project power far away from their borders.

Iran is a regional power. Russia is much more capable then Iran.

Hell, if US left NATO, the EU could not field a force barring the release of UK or French Nukes to stop Russia from overrunning eastern Europe.

>>33745355
>Now there tanks are rugged, and also require small people to fit in them.

Well that will be a big boost to the Russian economy now won't it? Small people in tanks.

>>33745373
>Change for changes sake implies nothing.
And regression against personal freedoms like who you can love and being allowed to be yourself do nothing good for a nation.

>>33745374
That Nominal, not PPP

>>33745353
>almost all social norms and accepted trends didn't come from religious text, teaching or dogma for 90% of civilized human history

Do you have any clue just how ignorant you are? And discussion involving social ethics by definition includes religious history. Even if religious law often mirrors basic social contract at its most basic level, the norms and societal shaping itself was almost always propagated by religion.

>>33745396
They are already the largest MBT producer by numbers, and Uralvagonzavod employed 50,000 workers, so yes, I would say it important to their economy you dipshit.

>INB4 "Italian sized economy!!!"

>>33744196
If you think he was praising Alex Jones, I suspect that you might have missed the point.

>>33745404
Who gives a fuck about ppp?

That's is only meant to make poor countries feel slightly better than themselves.

>>33745375
Well, sure. What do you think caused that massive STD resurgence? Trade brought the means, but social morals gave the wink and a nod.

>>33745447
As anyone who studies economics knows, PPP is a much better measure for products that can be produced internally.

And since Russia economy is much more based on internal trading and not exports/imports outside of selling oil to pay for updated capital stock and subsidize it railsystem it a much closer idea of the size of its economy.

>>33745003
>from killing fulcrums
Holy shit its actually real.

>>33745479
But sleep calls.

Don't be shocked that for decades to come russia will be a major military player. To say they are not currently is simply asinine.

>>33745444
>They are already the largest MBT producer by numbers
Sure, if you count the T-72 and older as mattering. There's only 816 Active and 3200 Reserve tanks of T-80 or newer variant.

Versus 2384 active/3500 stored M1s.

>>33744365
Pretty much this. There is so much anger right now at the possibility that Russia may have revealed that they might have read all of Hillary's E-Mails on her unsecured private server, and we're supposed to be furious at RUSSIA?

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>>33745394
>Six largest in the world anon.

That is based on a lie.

And there I will leave you clutching your lie and promulgating it.

The essence of modern Russia on display

Perhaps if you repeat it more somehow the Russian economy will magically grow.

But it won't.

Russia does not have a stronger anything than the Eu or china, it is a demographic runt and economic runt compared to the US, China and the EU and also militarily.

Any country and even a terrorist group can 'project power' away from their location. It is why they do it and their ability to suffer consequences that matter. Ultimately the consequences for Russia are dire.

I notice that you have no idea of the number of fighters, manpower, ground attack, helicopters, armour etc etc in the EU NATO countries. I know its very important to your propaganda efforts but the EU NATO states are capable of eliminating Russia on there own as is. Of couse there are 700 million people in the EU Vs 114 million in Russia

The EU economy is vast compared to Russias

Russia has no more hope of rivalling the EU than the USA or China

>>33745498
>Don't be shocked that for decades to come russia will be a major military player. To say they are not currently is simply asinine.
They are no longer a world power, and haven't been since 1991. At best they are a regional power, but even with either of their two regional influence spheres they have serious rivals (EU/NATO and China/RoK/Japan). World wide, they are not a major military player. They are a regional power, no more. In terms of relative influence over their neighbors, they aren't much above Brazil in relation to their neighbors.

>>33745397
>who you can love


O that's it. Please take your self obsession elsewhere. No one gives a shit what you do with your genitalia and you can rest assured it has all been done before and was boring to listen to then as well.

>>33745540
Attack aircraft
The US again has in this class the same number as Russia and China combined. Again other NATO countries have fleets of attack aircraft in Europe that are greater than Russia's entire inventory and the majority are more modern. Russia would be facing impossible odds.

>>33745560
The USA has five times the number of transport aircraft that Russia has. The European NATO members have nearly double. Russia is utterly outmatched,

>>33745450
But, in the modern era with education and protection you can have smart free sexuality without the risks.

Notably, you can easily correlate the States/Nations with comprehensive sex ed to lower teen pregnancy and STD rates, and Abstinence Only to far higher rates. Plus in comprehensive areas the average age of losing virginity is higher because it's not treated as a cool taboo to break.

Note also that those who make "purity" promises are far likelier to break it faster, as well as cheat it by doing things that don't "count" like anal. (even though virginity is a state of mind, not a freshness seal. No, hymens don't work that way. If she feels pain and bleeds you just didn't do enough foreplay)

>>33745496
Ethiopean-Eritrean war.

How about helicopters?
Well the ratio of US and western European NATO members Vs Russia is about ten to one. This includes myriads of highly advanced and battle proven immediately deployable units on the NATO side.

How about attack helicopters - well it's not quite so bad here, the western European nations and the US have about double Russia book number. Yes. Double maybe a bit more.

>>33745508
There was never any evidence of that.

It was the DNC's internal email server (and I must note the Trump White House has been using the RNC's to evade data archiving laws) and individuals like John Podesta's iCloud accounts.

NATO has Vastly more (and by vastly I mean a stupidly vaster greater number) of more modern, more lethal fighter aircraft. The US alone has more fighters than Russia and China *combined*. Other NATO and allied nations also have fleets of fighters that the Russia air force (and this is not some refection on Russian people) would technologically struggle to combat. Russia would be facing impossible odds.

>>33745551
You seem really damn obsessed with where people are allowed to stick their junk if you rage so much against gay marriage and such.

Here's the war game.

Russia invades the bastics and manages to get to the German border in three days. NATO is fully activated.

The Russian air force is destroyed by day 7 and by day 14 the entire attacking Russian force has been destroyed. Dead or captured.

Assuming nukes have not already been used

What happens next?

Russia realising it is facing complete destruction of it's military forces and defeat (this is not 1942) says it will use nukes if invaded.

Best case. The west accepts this but as a consequence Russia becomes a utterly isolated state living with militarised Korean/cold war borders and economic and cultural isolation from western allied nations until it gets new leaders and disarms to a scale proportional to its economy. It is farked and becomes a Chinese vassal state.

>>33745601
>You seem really damn obsessed with where people are allowed to stick their junk if you rage so much against gay marriage and such.

I never mentioned either religion or homosexuality. The strange obsessive who introduced these topic due to their genital obsessions and sectarianism did.

>>33745616
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

>>33745579
>But, in the modern era with education and protection you can have smart free sexuality without the risks.
Obviously. Because you have the science to understand STD infection means and treat STDs. And you have the education and information infrastructure to educate your populace about how they work, how to prevent transmission, how to treat them and how to use prophylactics. Religious dogma is no longer needed to force the moral on a populace unable or unwilling to understand the gross mechanics of the issue, freeing people to make their own choices.

>>33745605
>what happens next?
Every other soldier gets a rifle. If you don't have a rifle, you get ammo.

>>33745636
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXPNtaD6ZY

>>33745625
>Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

And............thats why no one cares about faggots

>>33745538
>Using Nominal GDP

What forces does the EU have? The EU couldn't even bomb Lybia without US support, while the Russians have maintained large forces and airstrikes in Syria for months.

Russian Military is stronger then any military that is not the US, UK, France, or Mainland China, and shows itself more capable of projecting power beyond it borders then China does.

The UK has more horses then Tanks right now. The Belgian army is 12,000.

Outside of the US, only UK, France, Turkey, and Greece have large military forces. Heck, Germany has only 60,000 in uniform.

If Russia was as weak as you said, why did they roll over when Russia took the Crimea?

Look, I am a fucking american, I don't like the Russians, but I am not dumb enough to say they are not a regional power...

>>33745652
>Being this obsessed with fags

>>33745674
>Risk of a new world war over a country already in civil war

>>33745691
Well according the anon, they are not even a regional power, so why worry?

>>33745644
You want to know what happens to conventional forces without air support?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmXleZXAr0

And your not defending Stalingrad...on no...you are on enemy territory as an invading force.....

>>33745479
>As anyone who studies economics knows, PPP is a much better measure for products that can be produced internally.

Wrong. Being that Russia is an exporter, ppp is pointless for total economic power. Nobody militarily cares how cheap bread is, and you ccant source or pay for a SU-35 100% domestically.

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>>33745268
>>33745274
Do you have any rebuttal besides greentext?

>>33743525
>best weapons tech durrrrr
>we didnt intercept hostile munitions because we didnt feel like it
At least Canada has a strong artillery tradition. You can't even get modern missle tech right.

>>33743547
>russian electoral influence
Not even /pol/ buys this bullshit.

>>33745717
>ccant source or pay for a SU-35 100% domestically.
What major parts of the SU-35 is not built in Russia?

>>33741380
Russia just plain doesn't have the money to be a global power any more

>>33745740
>>russian electoral influenceNot even /pol/ buys this bullshit.

Pol is mainly full of Russian shitposters

>>33745749
Protip: Unlike some Nato planes that have parts farmed out to each NATO member, the SU-35 can be built solely from Russian built parts.

>>33743736
The awkward moment when Russia keeps the Democrats more honest than Americans.

>>33745754
>>33745754
>Russia just plain doesn't have the money to be a global power any more

This and is a fading regional one with aging weapons systems and too small an economy to do anything much to keep up.

>>33745749
Isn't the HUD by Thales?
Or is that only the Irkut Su-30s?

>>33745729

A strong military tradition doesn't make a strong military. Canada's is just about third world tier, especially the navy.

>>33741380
>That makes the Su-35 a solid Generation IV+ fighter
How? It compares pretty much straight across the board with the F-14, which is a gen3 fighter. Avionics on it may actually be slightly worse. It damn sure isn't "gen4+".
>T-50 is a true 5th generation platform
No. It lacks more than half the features necessary to be considered 5th gen. The T-50 is Russia's "gen4+" fighter. Only about 30 years too late.
>buying sizable number, measured in dozens
Dozens is not sizable numbers of fucking any aircraft. It's token at best. Especially when you consider less than a quarter of them will be able to fly at any one time.

>>33745749
>>33745760

Raw materials, for one.

Nobody exists in a vaccine anymore.

>>33745760
>Protip: Unlike some Nato planes that have parts farmed out to each NATO member, the SU-35 can be built solely from Russian built parts.


That's great. After they all get shot down as they are outnumbered by 2 or three to one by superior aircraft they can be made into modern art and the parts can be used to decorate Russian military cemeteries

>>33745592
>NATO has Vastly more (and by vastly I mean a stupidly vaster greater number) of more modern, more lethal fighter aircraft. The US alone has more fighters than Russia and China *combined*. Other NATO and allied nations also have fleets of fighters that the Russia air force (and this is not some refection on Russian people) would technologically struggle to combat. Russia would be facing impossible odds

>>33745776
Anyone remember the French mistral carriers?

O russia

>>33745796
>Nobody exists in a vaccine anymore.
>Soylent Vaccine is people! SOYLENT VACCINE IS PEEEEEEEOPLE!

Oh, auto-correct. Sometimes you slay me.

>>33745749
Engines are Chinese, cockpit glass is Vietnamese, HUD is French, tires and wheels are Chinese.

>>33745776
The SU-27 uses a russian system

the SU-30 can use the Thales or a Israeli system. In addition, I know that a lot of the Thales equipment used by Russia is licence but locally (Russian) produced.

>>33745808

Kek

>>33745712
>Well according the anon, they are not even a regional power, so why worry?

Exactly

Just wait. Every month that passes, each year Russia just vanishes up its own ass further

>>33744020
>>33743997
If you think the corrupt election rigging democrats are independant from the EU from their NGO networks, then you're the fool that gives hidden dictators like Soros their power.

>>33744095
Time and quantum properties are seperate dimensions. Its 649 dimensional chess.

>>33745815
>Engines are Chinese
I know that false, Russian SU-30 engines are produced at Ufa by the company UMPO.

>>33744110
A quadnary computer might help.

>>33741406
>Russian air force
>post Ukrainian air force

>>33745907
But Ukraine is Russian CYKA BLAAAAT

>>33745815
>Engines are Chinese
Oh wow.
>cockpit glass is Vietnamese
What if you mean the displays they are built by Ramenskoye Bureau, if you mean the raw materials the F-35 is mostly Chinese as well, and the SR-71 is Soviet.
>HUD is French
Even the Su-30s are using IKSH HUDs these days.
>tires and wheels are Chinese.
What tyres do they use exactly?

>>33744291
The CIA is self funded. A great deal of American military power is based in the military contractor.

>>33745952
Yes, the sr-71 sourced USSR titanium.

You are not helping your point

>>33745963
>You are not helping your point
My point was that aircraft raw materials do not all originate in the country that designed the aircraft.

But Ivankis how can poor little Italy economy and population 122 million and shitty military be power next to big massive EU economy, US economy and China with much bigger populations? We cannot afford shit and are pissy little failure place of squatting.

Da komradeski let us shit up thread together that will fool them then know one will no

For the Motherland we will lie
Our putin he will cry
Even though it is not true
It is what we Ivans do

>>33746053
Thus, ppp is shit tier for talking about military economic power?

>>33746073
Not really, they probably don't buy glass from the Vietnamese in USD.

>>33746073
>ppp is shit tier

For anything really. External debt, exports, imports. Nominal GDP is all that matters a fuck

>>333746079

They pay the same price of everyone else, ergo, ppp is shit.

>>33745727
>Implying there needs to be anything when all you have is memes

>>33746112
Source?

>>33745740
So, every intel agency saying it did happen but /pol/ saying it didn't means it didn't?

>>33746128
Do you need a source that says Russia does not get special snowflake treatment on the world market?

>>33745840
>If you think the corrupt election rigging democrats are independant from the EU from their NGO networks, then you're the fool that gives hidden dictators like Soros their power.
>/pol/ conspiracy theory gears turning like a rusty shovel
Or, you know, it was internal party bullshit that saw Clinton as "due" the presidency and Sanders as a rogue element rocking the boat, rather than a staid, fairly unpopular "safe choice" versus a popular, well-liked individual who polled far better against the potential opposition.

File: sgl9xi.jpg (46KB, 536x558px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 536x558px

>>33746093
World GDP Ranking in 2015 by IMF

File: world-bank.jpg (76KB, 750x500px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 750x500px

Size of economy world bank

>>33745274
>/pol/ memes are evil!
>please ignore the damages done under the skin of government, as it grows into a lethal wound!

>>33745579
Basically, you're promoting the sexual degeneracy that has resulted in more new STDs than we have letters in the Latin alphabets.

>>33746409
>the sexual degeneracy that has resulted in more new STDs
Pay attention kids. This is why it's important to stay in school. If you don't, you end up like this complete fucking moron who believes that sex creates brand new pathogens. As you can see from this sorry example, he's so terrified and prudish about sex that he cannot even hold a simple discourse on the evolution of morals without having PTSD flashbacks about that one time he might have met someone different than himself. If it were actually as he suggests, then it would surely make no sense that Russia, which makes a national sport out of suppressing and persecuting any but the most traditional forms of sexual relationships, would have one of the highest per capita AIDS rates and HIV contraction rates in the world.

Protip: understanding STD transmission and best practices in avoiding exposure drives down STD rates. Ignorance, rampant IV drug abuse and driving sexuality into the dark underground where no one knows what's going on is how you get STD epidemics.

>inb4 pathogen strain divergence, drug resistance, etc.
Don't be a pedantic ass. That's clearly not what he meant. Hey! You in the back! Stop sleeping and pay attention in class.