The days of the US military's obsession with the 5.56 rifle

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>>33696522
>So the service is considering options to outfit soldiers with a true “battle rifle” chambered in 7.62×51, a more powerful round with a greater range than the 5.56, analysts say. It’s unclear which system the Army will pick if it decides to go this route, with rifles like the Mk-17 SCAR-H, M-110 and now the M110A1 CSASS either getting set for fielding or already in the inventory.
>But military planners aren’t stopping there.
Multiple sources confirm that the service is also looking at fielding a so-called “intermediate caliber” round that can be used in both machine guns and infantry rifles that deliver better range and lethality than the 5.56 but in a smaller, lighter package than the NATO M80 7.62×51 ammo.
>Dubbed the .264 USA, the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning, Georgia, has been shooting a prototype intermediate caliber round for years. Similar to the 6.5 Grendel but with a case sized for use in a standard M4 magazine, the .264 USA has an 800 meter effective range and better terminal ballistics further out than a 5.56.
This could be interesting. Won't they just go right back to 223 after they decide it isn't worth the weight???

>So does this mean the SCAR has a chance at being procured in large numbers now?

NO

>>33696522
>take potshots from mg position
>try to take him out from posititons that might as well be on Jupiter for all they're doing
>not shooting and scooting closer to the target
>not calling in CAS
Shoo shoo tax money gremlins. You just want them to spend more money on shit they don't need.

>>33696539
>The round is also being developed with a polymer case instead of brass, which cuts down the weight significantly, experts claim.
“Stand-off shooters in Afghanistan employ the suppressive merits of 7.62x54R weapons by raining down .30 caliber projectiles onto troops armed mostly with 5.56mm rifles incapable of returning effective fire,” Schatz wrote. “A lightweight polymer-cased intermediate caliber cartridge and projectile would thus improve the probability of hit, incapacitation and suppression for all members of the squad without the weight and recoil penalties associated with 7.62mm NATO ammunition and weapons.”

>The notion is to field one caliber that can work for a variety of missions — from close-in battle clearing houses to distant engagements using a rifle or a machine gun. In fact, there’s increased interest within the service to evaluate a new medium machine gun chambered in .338 Norma Magnum that would replace the M240 and potentially even the decades-old M2 .50 cal in some missions.

>The Army has not taken an official position on the fielding of 7.62 battle rifles for its front-line troops or on the development of an intermediate caliber. The service did conduct a Small Arms Ammunition Configuration Study to look into the issue, but the results have not yet been publicly released.
Not sure if I should keep copying or not.
Just wanted to see some thoughts

Ive been seeing this article around a lot lately, but I feel like something has been lost in translation between what is actually happening and what is being printed, since this whole debacle seems to totally disregard the existence of the DMR. Like, engaging targets outside the range of the infantryman is literally the expressed objective of a designated marksman.

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>>33696522

That's silly reasoning, they engage with PKMs, a machine gun, we have the m240. An AK 762 or 545 has no greater range than a 556.

That's like saying because they got shot at by 1 guy out of a group of AK welding insurgents with a 50 cal and 1 mile range, all our soldiers need an equivalent

>>33696522
how much would it cost to shoot nothing but explosives at the enemy?

Told you guys the 556 was inferior
BAKA

>>33696522
To me it seems like a region specific problem, as we've known since WWII battelspaces and Fighting distances have become closer and closer, which is why Armies started moving towards intermediate cartridges in the first place. Only in remote ass places like A Stan can the enemy procure such a distance between elements. IMO it'd be better to just issue current units in those AOs or going to those AOs with SCARs or MK12s, instead of refitting the whole military based on the needs of a pretty much winding down war

>>33696573
A DMR isn't gonna help a whole lot if your unit is being out gunned and suppressed

>>33696592
If a few DMRs would be of no help, then giving everyone battle rifles wont do shit either in that situation.

>>33696586
>BAKA
Eat word filter newkid

>>33696632
Fuck you guys are retarded. Hunter 3-1 is name that's been used around here for fucking years. Who originally started it who knows? Probably Zed, but alot of ANONS use it to troll Leddit and newfags. But reguardless Everytime you idiots reply to the name, you just oust yourself as new. So please. Just quit

>>33696522
Are you really surprised about that?
The 556 has been under performing ever since it came out.
It's only advantages are its light and cheap on a per unit basis relative to rounds that actually work

>>33696643
Don't tell him what to do
>stupidity the post

>>33696646
It's also perfect for laying down a large volume of sustained and accurate fire, which is extremely important for combat units

>>33696620
So what we need is LWMMGs for everyone.

>>33696661
Well clearly we need PKPs in 7.62R. should fix the problem

>>33696653
Or for untrained grunts that can't shoot for shit

>>33696583
Did you even read the fucking article?

ARs in 6.5 when

>>33696522
5.56 works perfectly fine in the right loading, it's the army's fault m855 is shit
>>33696646
confirmed for not knowing shit about ballistics.

>>33696675
So you're saying that the merits of 556 are important to everyone?

inb4 .280 British.

5.56 is indisputably the best intermediate cartridge around. It's not as anemic, nor does it lack the long range that the naysayers claim.

Plus, replacing it would be a logistical and financial headache.

It is still the most viable cartridge available, and the situation isn't so bad that it needs to be replaced.

>>33696714
I'm saying if the US trained their soldiers better, high volumes of fire would be unneeded

I hope they don't go back to.308. It's a poor long distance cartridge for its size, and more importantly, the fudds would become insufferable.

>ah TOLD ya that tiny little varmint cartridge ain't worth a damn, if we'da stuck to thirty cal we'da won Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq

>>33696573
You've seen this article around a lot lately because there's an entire industry devoted to Chicken Little "The Sky Is Falling" drivel with regards to infantry rifles. 90% of the time, if you look back on the sources of those claims you'll find they either have stake in or ties to some major arms company who wants that sweet, sweet government contract money. The whole thing is shilling to encourage any sort of opportunity for the parent company to score a useless pork contract. Just like the XM8 program, just like the snake oil LeMas Blended Metal bullets, and so many other things.

>>33696723
that's retarded, 5.56 works fine up to 500 yards. Having 30 rounds is always better than 20 rounds if it's just as effective.

>>33696724
>back to.308

we never left 308

>>33696744
>works fine up to 500 yards
>fails to stop people unless you shoot them 30 times
>constant replacements being developed
How new are you?

>>33696522
>implying the army would adopt the SCAR instead of getting an official milspec AR-10

>>33696522
jfc they really don't like long barrels that much?

>>33696756
M855A1 and MK262 kill in one shot the vast majority of the time, and just because big defense companies want to get gobbment bucks doesn't mean the round itself is flawed.
Stop watching Black Hawk Down and judging an entire caliber by the one shit loading US Ordinance made.

>>33696586

BAKA DESU SENPAI

>>33696753

You know what I mean, it was phased out from the standard service rifles.

>>33696770
>all this projecting
It's about superior performance not money newkid
also black hawk down was a garbage movie, I couldn't even make it half way through it

6 . 5 G R E N D E L

FUCKING RETARDS IT"S BEEN HERE ALL ALONG REEEEEEEEE

All I hear is that the army cant shoot past 200m. The M4 and AK have about the same effective range. If your being shot at from 300m beyond your effective range which is 500m man sized target then your getting sniped at and should probably call in fire suport since you know where he is becuase your weapon sucks and its not the fact that your in competent.

>>33696794
The weapons sucks and they are incompetent
double whammy
And then idiots like >>33696770 show up and spam out the thread with fake news and garbage opinions

>>33696787
>less capacity
>more recoil
>for better performance at ranges most infantrymen will never shoot at
yeah, real superior.

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>>33696672
>rimmed catriage

No, bring back 30-06.

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> be 60-year-old GPMG that fires a 120-year-old cartridge
> your widespread proliferation among poorly-funded and trained terrorist groups is enough to force the largest military power in human history to replace all of the small arms given to its frontline troops

WTF I love the PK now

What's super annoying about troops being shit shots is that if we dug up any dead British WWII guy and magically brought him back to life and made him young, those fuckers were qualifying at 1000 meters with their enfields

>>33696573
and the m240s

Every platoon has at least 2. Add in TPE Mk.48s that are floating around theater, and you've got plenty of firepower to maneuver under.

Hell, on my last hitch, we had 2 240s, 4 mk.48s, and 2 m14s in a standard light infantry platoon. Thats plenty of reach.

This is a sales pitch by HK

>>33696820
fake news? When did I ever say anything that can be proven factually untrue? Garbage opinions? Nothing I said was an opinion.

>>33696554
Sounds interesting.

>>33696822
Don't miss your shots and the lower capacity won't matter
You can't stand recoil?
Except that they do. Re read the article
>>33696859
>not a contribution: the post
Nice job kid

>>33696869
>Don't miss

You have never shot at another person, and it shows.

>>33696823
338 norma magnum or go home

> 2016
> US Army still doesn't realize that virtually all combat in the future will take place in sprawling megacities like Baghdad, Mexico City, and Dhaka
> will replace cheap and reliable 5.56 with some overpowered snowflake cartridge unsuited for urban combat

7.62x39 master race when.

>>33696869
You realize that marksmanship is severely degraded in a stressful situation, right? It takes years of actual combat to stop that, and even then hitting a moving target at 500 yards is really fucking difficult. It's why machine gunner are trained to walk bullet impacts onto the enemy and barely use the sights.

>>33696877
>>33696902
>excusing poor marksmanship
Remember back when people actually trained to hot their targets and not spray and prey and wait for a drone to take them out?\
Me either

>>33696705
>it's the army's fault m855 is shit
Yep. I bet if they started issuing MK 262 in Afghanistan there would be far fewer complaints about the effective range of 5.56 ammo.

>>33696919
they still train for that you trucking troglodyte, but shooting at stable targets on a range is nothing like actual combat. kys

>>33696952
>not training the way you fight
Not sure what is more pathetic, you trolling on the internet or them allowing substandard training to persist in this era
>kys
You must be 18 to post here kiddo

>>33696882
Fucking this

>>33696952
Why are you feeding replies to someone who's trying to troll you? Stop it. He doesn't actually care what you say, he's just looking for (you)s or whatever the hell it is these days.

>>33696969
so you want to hire people to get shot at by us troops?
kys

>>33697007
>kys
Go be 10 somewhere else
>so you want to hire people to get shot at by us troops?
I never said anything close to that.

>>33696952
NEWKID DETECTED
Daily reminder
Callum, all Hunter variations, John Conner, Name***, fluffy bottom and Burt are all one person

KILL ALL NAMEFAGS

>>33696586
desu baka senpai

>>33696793
This .264 USA can use STANAG mags tho.

>>33696554
>polymer case
I'm assuming they mean plastic


Do they really want to see what happens when a hot machine gun eats plastic?

>>33697069
You ever heard of thermoplastics kid?

Thermoplastics will perform fine, the chamber on an open bolt mg or even a closed bolt wont get hot enough.

>>33697118
Thats pretty uncalled for, prick.


And yes i have heard of nylon, abs, and acrylic

>>33697118
Will that shit degrade in sunlight?

>>33696843
It really is a phenomenal weapon system. I used to carry the 240 alot, but if I had a choice for an MG I could own I'd definitely own glorious Pecheneg

>>33696919
>t. some fat retard who has zero military experience
Do you think the military doesn't train at shooting ranges? Also, before the whole suppressive fire doctrine of combat, US soldiers would die in droves. Pro tip: the 5.56 round far out ranges a rifleman's capabilities in a high stress scenario. Besides, facilitating a quick follow up shot is infinitely more valuable than increasing stopping power for the first shot

>>33697059
I'd like to see you try

>>33697253
They should train harder then.
People that play professional sports don't jog around in practice. THEY SPRINT and give 110% towards everything.
If the military did the same they would do better and not need to spray bullets everywhere scoring a less than 1% accuracy rating

>>33697176
Go back to ARFCOM faggot.

>>33697270
It has always been like that, look at the accuracy numbers during WW2 between all nations. Good try at trolling though, just try not to look so stupid next time.

>>33697212
It could, but ammo doesnt really sit out in the sun for very long, and even if it does degrade It ought to function fine.

Wonder if it could be coated with a protectant?

>>33696583

>AK has no greater range

AK47s and AKMs outrange 5.56. It's an undisputable fact. The problem is that the rifles aren't accurate past 300m due to the production methods and age.

5.45 is roughly equal to 5.56 because it was a competitive design. The merits of either arent really worth picking one over the other.

Britain and France warned everyone supporting 5.56 as NATO standard that they were picking a city fighting round for roles that it wouldn't be suited for and that it was better to keep 7.62x51 or go for a proper intermediary cartridge that would be a go between.

But Germany fucked it up by bending over for the US after France and Britain refused their snowflake cartridge based on the fact that they wanted 100% production rights while Britain had offered 6.5 British as a public license for any NATO nation.

Could have literally had avoided 30 years of shitty deployment standards and being shot by kebabs using WW1 wearpons by listening to the countries that fought rebels and insurgents on near constant levels thanks to internationally based units.

But hey ho. Another thing the US fucked up.

>>33697290
What is marine marksman ship
What is M1 Garand
WHat is 30.06 semi auto
What is 8 roud clip
You are new around here and it really shows.
You can't spray and prey with a dmr. Take your garbage bait somewhere else

>>33697290
Stop replying idiot.

Report
Sage
Hide

>>33696919
>me either
I could care less, but that doesn't hardly make any sense.

>>33697309
Lol please dont stop, they take the b8 everitym

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>>33696522

How ironic.
USA forces NATO to accept 7.62x51 (basically shorter .30-06) when literally everyone else wants a lighter upper intermediate round like .280Br.

Then the US realizes that 7.62x51 is junk in full auto out of an assault rifle. So here comes 5.56x45 shoved down NATO's throat, which is a tiny intermediate. It sucks for most roles and we spend decades trying to make it worthwhile.

And now the US finally goes for the upper intermediate style round that the euros wanted for over 70 years now. Be it .264, 6.5 LSAT, 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel, it's all fairly close to .280Br.

Imagine where we'd be if we had been using .280Br since 1945... It'd have been tweaked to fucking perfection.

What a fucking waste.

>So does this mean the SCAR has a chance at being procured in large numbers now?

>>33697409

The U.S. Army ordinance department was filled with retarded fudds who so hated the idea of a small caliber rifle that they intentionally sabotaged the introduction of the M16 just to "prove" that small caliber rifles were bad.

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>>33696522
>So does this mean the SCAR has a chance at being procured in large numbers now?

Fuck no. It was never a real contender for general issue.

Maybe the simplified FNAC which brings the cost down, but never the SCAR.

>>33697409
That is a pretty stout little round. Didn't 5.56 adaptation originate from .222 or some other speedy hunting round?

>>33696522
threat engages friendly forces with 7.62mmR weapons 300 meters beyond the effective range of 5.56mm

>implying any of those dirt farmers can reliably hit targets at that range

>>33697440
5.56 is literally a glorified .22, to think we've been sending our guys to go fight gooks and hajis with this for the last 40+ years

>>33697471
It's a decent round man, just a small caliber. It's easy to shoot quickly and lay down a heavy volume fire with it. It's especially effective out of a SAW. Accurate, decent energy. I know it's a .22 but where did the original design come from a .222 swift or .224 or something?

>>33697300
>30-30 outranges 5.56x45

Maximum wew lad kys

>>33696540
damn

>>33697440
>That is a pretty stout little round. Didn't 5.56 adaptation originate from .222 or some other speedy hunting round?

5.56x45 comes from .222Rem which was a target round, which quickly grew into a popular varmint hunting round. It was quickly eclipsed by 6mm PPC in the target role, but remained popular as a hunting round until today (though currently mostly in countries which ban .223Rem for being a military cartridge).

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>>33697497
222 rem
Not truly an up sized 22 hornet

>>33697300

>AK47s and AKMs outrange 5.56. It's an undisputable fact

Even the Soviet Union's own internal testing graded the 5.56 as superior, hence why they copied the concept of a lighter, faster round by introducing the 5.45.

Could fix 5.56 range problem with a 20 inch barrel. Would be cheaper but that is not how the military works.

>>33697118
Thermoplastics?
You mean the kind of plastic that softens when it gets hot?
It's not like thermophile bacteria, anon.

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>>33697660
>implying there arent high temperature thermoplastics

Anon pls.

>article reeks of advocate bias
>SCHV (5.56, 5.45, 5.8) is the gold standard of every major military
>ignores that the US army is interested in switching to .264 or .277 USA, with 7.62 rifles being a holdover that can be barrel swapped

>>33696843
In this moment, the gun is euphoric.

>>33696522
Not going to read this entire thread but maybe, just maybe you shouldn't just have guys running around a giant valley with a fucking Carbine.

Ar10s and exoskeletons

>>33697650
A 20 inch barrel won't help enough for what they want. Sounds like they wanna stay around the 1000m marker and under. They're gonna end up with 7.62 again lol

>>33697212

The sun doesn't generate enough heat at the distance it is at to melt plastic

>>33697429

What was changed to bring the cost down?

>>33697951
That's my thoughts. It looks just like the fucking regular SCAR, so what would they gain lowering the price point and changing the name? It can't be any serious systemic changes to it's action

Simple, just issue everyone P90's.... Chamberd in .338 Lapua. Full auto only.
Yeah it'll be useless as fuck, but funny for everyone who don't gotta shoot it.

They'll have to issue optics stronger than an acoustic, and train soldiers on how to actually shoot .

No new caliber can make Snuff you into Simon Hayha.

>>33697409
>durr muh .280 British
>6.5 Grendel and LSAT telescopic ammunition is practically the same
Kill self m9

>>33697961

I'd be interested to know how the performance of this compares to a regular SCAR.

>>33697933
Heard of UV rays? Bad for the skin, bad for polymers

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>>33697951
>What was changed to bring the cost down?

Removed the integrated front sights and turned them into add on sights on the rail.
Simplified the gas block.
Removed cut out / vents above the barrel.
Lighter barrel.

Made is slightly more complex by adding a non-reciprocating charging handle though. To appease the whiners, I guess.

>>33696882
Bingo. You know what they say- the US is always prepared to win the last war they fought in and not the one that's coming.

>>33696554
>>33696544
>>33696540
>>33696539
>>33696522
its the army asking for the LSAT and a rifle chambered for the 6,5mm telescoped cartridge. they can't outright buy it because muh contract bidding but they are going to begin an 'ask' for bids which only one company can really win

>>33698149
That thing is pig disgusting, get it outta here

>>33698168
It literally looks exactly like a SCAR you fuckin Autist.

With the LSAT program still in the running I'd say that they are just gearing up for this change. Whatever the rifle they pick it will be 7.62 real NATO in the beginning and then convertible over to the new telescoping caliber.

I think we went too far in the "smol n fast" direction, with the ACR experiments like the G11 representing the extreme end of it. Keep the same velocity as 5.56 but boost the weight and size into the 6mm range; that should have been where the original intermediate ideal may have settled.

>>33698168
Yes but non recip CH makes up for everything

>>33697650
>m16a4 has always been the answer
Fucking knew it.

They should do like infantry squads in the world wars. Couple rifle men with full size M16s, an automatic rifleman with a LMG or M27, NCOs with M4s.

>>33696522
I thought the effective range of 556 was 600 meters?

>>33696919
remember when soldiers didnt even aim to shoot eachother ?
remember when civilized nations fought eachother?
>Allahu Ackbar

>>33698206
A 20" barrel is still not gonna get to 1000m effectively.

>>33698218

Out of the 20" barrel, as the weapon was initially designed around this.

>>33697848
This

>>33698146
What if we use sunblock on our ammo?

Will they go back to .30-06 now

Replacement for a 5.56mm would probably come in the form of a .264 or 7mm USA cartridge, somewhere between .308 and 5.56 NATO. Lower recoil and better trajectory/wind drift than .308 and more power than 5.56mm. Its been developed by the AMU for years but will require new rifles to be procured and developed which is expensive. MK 262 will be the temporary fix while Army Ordinance figures out what it wants. I think replacing every .308 with a .260 would be incredible and cost effective for all platforms.

>>33696522
$10 Fucking nobody in the industry responds to this shit if they call for another "industry trial."

The army has talked about replacing the fucking M4 for literally 40 years now. Too many companies have been fucked over by the "lol this does good enough" results every time.

what if we went to 72 grain 5.56, upped the pressure, and used a high twist 20 inch barrel?

>>33698227
Do infantry have any realistic chance of effectively engaging targets that far away in the first place?

Even with modern optics and a generous estimation of 2MOA that seems like a stretch.

Thats just to hit the target, if the cartridge has to fit in STANAG mags idk if it can bring sufficient performance out to that distance anyway.

Then inevitably lead to claims that "its performance at 1000yds is poor, whelp time to dust off .308"

>>33698397
the biggest hurdle is that 99% of soldiers won't get the training and range time necessary to be decent shots at 300 plus meters.

studies already show that most soldiers are shit shots past 200m.

would have to sacrifice all those mandatory online classes and death by power points. to get soldiers on the range and shooting.

>>33696587
Underrated post

>>33698397
>>Do infantry have any realistic chance of effectively engaging targets that far away in the first place?
Yes.

See: The Second Boer War.

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>>33696522
Sounds like their looking for this

>>33697471
You faggots destroy threads with this shit and somehow have the gall to insult other boards and sites.

>>33698149
> 2017
> non-reciprocating charging handle
> for whiners
or you know, any southpaws or anyone firing from cover

wouldnt it be cheaper to supply the enemy with 5.56 weapons than to refit your entire arsenal?

>>33698453
I somehow doubt that an insurgency 100 years ago, with all the Napoleonic tactics in use at the time, is relevant today.

>>33698419
Training is easily the most important thing about this extended range problem.
It doesnt matter how good a weapon you give them, if they cant take advantage of it it doesnt really matter

>>33698927
one time I got shot at from beyond 300m.

>tower guard, camp taji iraq
>according to the range card the hadjis were 500-550m out
>the PFC with me didn't even know you could turn the rear elevation knob on his A2 to adjust for range.

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>>33698927
St. Mattis wishes it so.
Muh rifleman's quarter mile

>>33698474
I promise you they're not

>>33698822
this, why don't we just start memeing 5.56 to the enemy?

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>>33696724

7mm murray or gtfo

>>33697520
It does tho...

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>>33699062

Such perfect intermediate size, such le gth of bullet, such ogivity proclivity!

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>>33699083

Do you mean to tell me after 300m it's already more powerful than a 308? My gosh!

>>33697033
How low do you have to sink that the way you get enjoyment in life is trying and failing to make other people who share an interest with you kind of annoyed maybe a little bit for a few minutes.

>>33697468
How long has the war been going on? I'd wager there's quite a few who have more combat experience than most of our guys

>>33698152
It's called learning from mistakes. How the hell you gonna learn from a mistake you haven't made yet?

>>33699098
>Comparing match ammo to m80 ball
It's sad you have to stoop so low

>>33696759
>SCAR in use with certain units already
>"Hey I know! Instead of building more of this rifle we already have, let's adopt a new one!"

but what optic will they use for a rifle with range? acogs dont have enough eye relief for 308 recoil.

>>33699223
They were talking about a 1-6x iirc.

>>33697300
Wow, your a retard

>>33696522
Bullshit. They pussed out on bringing back .45, they'll puss out on this too.

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>>33696882
>2020
>US military perfects 6.56654554mm round
>$40billion USD to produce a round designed perfectly to knock Afghan goat enthusiasts off ridges exactly 900.124 meters away
>Issued just in time to be combat tested in the dense, steamy jungles of central/south America during the 2021 HueHue genocide
>Is never fired in any engagement at targets more than 20m distant

>we want a bigger caliber
>Say the same thing for 17 years straight
>Waste millions of dollars to accomplish nothing
They'll be saying the same thing next year

>>33697297
It's not the heat, it's the UV exposure, but then, that typically requires prolonged exposure to be an issue.

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>>33696522

I personally feel that 6.5 Grendel would be the best possible military cartridge for carbines and light machine guns. Much better energy retention and barrier-defeating ability than the 5.56 while still being substantially smaller and lighter than the 7.62. I rely like the idea of a "universal" rifle cartridge that would bridge the gap between 5.56 and 7.62. But it will never happen. 5.56 already exists in such quantities that replacing it seems impossible to justify from a budget point of view.

>>33700161
.22 nosler is a better solution in the same size package

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>>33696586

Baka.

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>>33697300
>>33697607
but don't the 5.45x39 is better than the 5.56x55 in that it doesn't need to be as fast to sustain effective wounds/kill shots?

Like in pic related 5.45 have this hollow cavity.

Could someone help me with better information about it?

>>33699866(Checked)
>2117
>American Union Army perfects the caseless 5mm round, specifically designed for urban combat in high humidity at close range
>Just in time to be combat tested in the high gravity of the Nova Prime Offensive where it lacks the range and penetration to effectively engage Thu'ralck militia fighters

War never changes

>>33700393
no existing 5.45 service round compares to 5.56 M855A1

>>33696522
>2020
>The US Military has adpoted a new cartridge and have modernized the M16/M4 to use said cartridge
>The first man portable laser weapons are also being issued
>the M14 will still be in service
THIS IS THE BEST FUCKING TIME LINE

>>33696522
Why not issue full length m16s again? Solves this bullshit.

Besides heckler cocks can suck a dick about their goddamn uppity marketing. Who are they, dragon armor or fire clean?

>>33700443
>2264
>XM-987 Individual Laser Weapon System reaches frontline units
>In-theater testing against the Mirror People of Drakis VII highlights issues with lethality and accidental blindings
>re-issued with new instructions telling soldiers to fire only on highest power setting while squinting

>>33700161
Too slow out of carbines. Too slow out of just about anything short of a 24" barrel, really.

>>33700344

>22 Nosler

Looks interesting.

>>33701477
Even then its going to be at a huge deficit compared to other cartridges from the same barrel length.

>>33701533
Compromises will need to be made somewhere, unfortunately the ar15 ejection port limits cartridge design.

Something in 6mm or 6.5mm that retains 30 rounds in a stanag mag would cut it.

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>>33701477

Muzzle velocity doesn't matter as much as how a cartridge retains velocity during flight. The 6.5 Grendel will still be traveling supersonic at 1000 yards, even out of a 14.5-inch or 16-inch barrel.

>>33701611
Gretchen, stop trying to make non-5.56 M4/M16s happen.

Seriously though, 6mm would probably be the sweet spot, although it would take more powder.

>>33701646
[icepicks internally]

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>>33697300
>AK47s and AKMs outrange 5.56. It's an undisputable fact

kekaroo

>>33701611
A 6mm based on something like a 6.8spc would be a great way to go, imho

>>33696539
>10 lbs empty
Might as well just go full 308 of they don't want to keep the weapon light

>>33696902
>It's why machine gunner are trained to walk bullet impacts onto the enemy and barely use the sights.
>and barely use the sights.
that sounds like A-grade bullshit

>>33701686
>>33701801

Im just stating the limitations of the ar15 design, really dont think that .556 needs to be replaced, but it is gimped in the current barrel length fielded.

>develop intermediate cartridges because most fighting in WWII took place at short ranges
>now complain about intermediate cartridges because they're getting outranged

what's next, a caliber switch that later ends with them complaining about it being too powerful for the short distances they're fighting in in some future conflict?

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>>33696716
>5.56 is indisputably the best intermediate cartridge around.

Nope, that would be 5.45.

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>having this much trouble with an outdated RIMMED RIMMED RIMMED rifle cartridge

Holy shit America, get your shit together

>>33702219
huehuehuehuehue

>>33701242
>2477
>YN-213APR accelerated plasma rifle sees field testing against inhabitants of PU317. Issues experienced against Mirror People of Drakis VII, mainly reflective armor and vision damage, are addressed with the new system.
>Unfortunatley in Parallel Universe 317 atmospheric composition renders the plasma unstable and ineffective.
>UGEarth military commissions testing on self contained combustion, metallic cartridge, metal projectile based ammunition.
>There is heated debate between MIC engineers and the top military brass on whether the round should be as small as 5mm or as large as 7mm.

So why not just spend some money buying a number of different rifles

Then issue them to active duty troops, and collect feedback/effectiveness on it?

It's only going to be a small amount of troops who regularly get into long range firefights

Of course then we'll be talking about issuing XM-25's to everyone.

Honestly, beyond 300 yards the enemy better be standing in a wide open field with his thumb up his ass if you want the average soldier to have any chance of effectively engaging him. Beyond 300 yards you really need a DMR with a specially-trained soldier.

tl;dr - the effective range of 5.56 is farther than the effective range of the shooter

>>33696891
60 inch drop @ 400m master race.

30-30 ballistics with no yaw or frag.

>go fuck yourself

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>>33696881
No... we must go make it harder, better, faster, stronger.

We must go with Lapua.

>in all seriousness, what's the difference

>>33702190
Less likely to happen as the advancement of armor technology might mean those full-power rounds may actually be necessary even at close range. At that point nobody really complains anymore. Also assault rifles start being reclassified into full-power because low-end intermediates go dodo and military battle rifles start using magnum-tier calibers.

>>33702254
has performance similar to .308win

your mileage may vary

>>33702867
>battle rifles firing .338 Lapua

>>33696522
>Scars might have the same accessibility and customization options that an AR has now
The dream

>>33702816
Norma seats 300gr bullets better.

Also .300 Norma is where its at

>>33702190
>>develop intermediate cartridges because most fighting in WWII took place at short ranges
>>now complain about intermediate cartridges because they're getting outranged
>what's next, a caliber switch that later ends with them complaining about it being too powerful for the short distances they're fighting in in some future conflict?
Knowing the Pentagon, what will happen is that they'll rearm the military with rifles that have a more powerful cartridge in a stubby M4 sized barrel, figure out that it isn't any more accurate and doesn't carry much farther because the problem is barrel length not ammo, further figure out that the recoil on the new rifle sucks (ever fired a Mosin carbine?) and that their soldiers can't carry as many rounds, and then go back to .223, all at horrendous expense.

>>33703425
They would never go back to .223 if they did that
They'd go to some other meme cartridge

>>33696716
Clearly, at least a great number of the powers that be disagree with you. 5.56 isn't a useful at 800m round by any stretch of the imagination. The problem is only exacerbated by the short barrels be fielded now

>>33703217
The LWMMG was a thing 5 years ago, chambered in .338 Norma Mag. Use that.

>>33699200
and the army did what with Sig recently?

>>33696544
>not calling in CAS
>Shoo shoo tax money gremlins.
Wait... What?

A rifle round or ten would be slightly cheaper than blowing everything up.

>>33696793
have fun clearing stoppages in 6.5 grendel full auto weapons

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>>33696522

Come home GI man

>>33703976
>give soldiers short guns that can't reach enemy
>let's just call in the really expensive flying thing to bomb them every time
US infantry doctrine in a nutshell.

>>33696522

My dad worked in an emergency room for 30 years as a doctor.

One of the most grizzly cases of gun shot wounds he ever had to deal with was 5.56.

Shit tore up the guys insides, tumbled and fragmented.

The wounding capability for 5.56 is goddamn incredible.

>>33704234
When 5.56 has the velocity it is incredible, after 300 yards with a 14.5 barrel that shit dont fragment.

>>33704162
>worst service rifle America has ever fielded
>yes, even worse than the Krag

Give 'em basic AR-10s and Mk. 48s.

>>33704234
When it works it's like magic, when it doesn't work eeeeeeehhh that's okay, sometimes it works and then it's magic!

>>33696522
>.338 LM H/MMG
Soooooo a browning 1919/M2 rechambered for .338 LM?
FUCKING AWESOME!
(And we all know it's just gonna be a redone M2)

It will be interesting to see if .264 USA goes anywhere, or the US simply ups the number of designated marksmen in a squad/platoon/whatever.

We'll probably see a technologically advancement in the metallurgy of the chamber and bolt face that allow higher peak pressures. We'll see a relatively short cartridge with a fast burning powder producing something like 80,000 psi in the chamber pushing a long, thin, heavy projectile from a short barrel with a very high twist rate.

You know, the exact direction development has been going for ever

>>33702748

Frag no, no yaw???

Cracker are you rucking retarded?

What is boat tail 76.2x39?

Go fuck yourself with your 5.56 and hope the lead gets ya,

>>33700750

>Get to live to see the transition period from gunpowder to lasers and robots becoming common in the military
>TFW there still aren't any flying cars or easy access jetpacks

Oh well, you can't always bat 100.

6.5 Grendel would be a perfect solution. Unfortunately, it's an imperfect world. To that end, send everyone out with 20 inch AR's except for one or two with whatever battle rifle.

Gyrojet resurgence when?

>>33696919
Jesus your inexperience is showing.