Why do fudds have like 500 nearly identical chamberings for hunting

Its a art you would not understand

Do you have time to talk about the .257 Roberts, anon? You seem like a guy that would dig it.

Also, long and short actions made things a bit more complicated.

>>33681610
Oh gosh anon you're right. Everyone should shoot .223 and 9mm out of their tacticool glocks and ar15s at pieces of paper in preparation for the race war like you.

>>33681669
Talk to me anon

>>33681610
>.308, .270, 30-30, .243, or 30-06
Most people do.

>>33681710
Do you ever get sick of all these fandangled necked down .30-06 and .308 varents? Do you yearn for some German Empire heritage instead?

Well, why not take the venerable 7x57 and shove a quarter bore cartridge inside it? You might find you'd end up with a very fast shooting bullet for very little recoil. You might even find an ideal general purpose cartridge for nearly any 4 legged animal in North America.

>7mm Weatherby Magnum
>7mm Winchester Short Magnum
>7mm-08 Remington
>7mm Remington Magnum
>7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
>.270 Winchester
>.280 Remington
>7mm Shooting Times Westerner
>.300 Weatherby Magnum
>.264 Winchester Magnum
>.260 Remington
>.25-06 Remington
>.243 WSSM
>.240 Weatherby Magnum
>.244 H&H Magnum

>>33681610
Engineers can't leave well enough alone. They know that if they design a cartridge with slightly better ballistics or a slightly shorter action, someone will buy it.

That being said, 270 Win is the ultimate cartridge.

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projectile autismfests are too much, even for me.

>>33681610
They've all got their own uniquely autistic qualities, many of which don't matter one bit if you don't reload.

>>33681811
> They know that if they design a cartridge with slightly better ballistics or a slightly shorter action, someone will buy it.

Then explain the failure of the .280 Remington to me, anon. Why must you drag salt into that wound again.

>>33681610
>Why do tacti-tards have like 500 nearly identical chamberings for target practice? They all cost like $2 a round, are obscure as hell, and have a subsequently limited selection of loads/components.
>
>What advantage do they even supposedly offer over each other? Is the paper really gonna give a fuck if you shoot it with a 450 bushmaster, or a .458 SoCom?
>
>Why not just use .308, .270, 30-30, .243, or 30-06, and be done with it?
>
>Do tacti-tards enjoy scouring every online firearm store trying to find a single $90 box of cartridges?

>>33681706
I'm not saying hunting is bad. Just why so many pointless round? It seems like it'd be annoying to own a rifle in some esoteric chambering.

Why even differ from .243?

>>33681875
You say this in a mocking fashion, but you're right. There are turbo-autists in both camps, and some people are smart enough to get them to buy pointless expensive shit.

>>33681809
7 win mag is dead. I need to get rid of this rifle.

>>33681895
I say different strokes for different folks.

A friend of mine has a custom built R700 that he chambered for 7mm Rem-Mag and he uses it for Boar down here in the swamps and Buck when he travels north for season.

Ammo is hard to find around here since it's metropolitan and anything beyond the general calibers (9x19, .45acp, .38/.357, 5.56, .308, .300 WinMag, ect) is usually sold at specialty hunting shops for exuberant prices. At the end of the day, it's his checkbook, not mine.

>>33681936
What replaced it? Last I heard it was a magnificent cartridge.

>work at gas station
>we sell ammo because rural area
>fudds come in and ask if we can get retarded calibers like 300 ultra mag for whitetail deer
>tried explaining what ammoseek was to one of them once to help him out
>just got a blank look
>still have old guys ask me if we're ever getting .22 back
>manager pulled it off the shelves and only sells it to a few people because of scalpers
>I tell them that we're not getting it back ever

Hell, most people don't even know that you can buy ammo online. I don't understand the logic of needing big game rounds for deer, either.

>>33681840
It wasn't a failure. It inspired the 7mm Ackley improved, which is the only Ackley improved cartrdge to be offered in factory rifles (Kimber) and factory ammo (Nosler). It's officially no longer a wildcat.

>>33681875
If you're shooting paper, why use anything other than 22 LR?

>>33681985

It should have been at least as big as the .270. I know it didn't have an O'Conner singing it's praises, but it had 160gr bullets when finding even 150gr .270 was a fool's errand.

>>33682000
The paper is really far away and it's windy.

>>33682027
22 LR is suitable out to 100 meters unless you're in a hurricane.

>>33681895
>Just why so many pointless round?
the firearm community has ballistics-queens like a sorority has size-queens. Why shoot X when you could shoot X-brand-magnum that does literally everything the same, except it's 2fps faster and $2.50/rd more expensive?

>Why even differ from .243?
why differ from .308? why differ from 5.45x39mm? why differ from .300 weatherby? why differ from a recurve bow? why differ from 3" 12ga slugs?
people found shit they liked that conforms to their local laws and they can afford to shoot it. I say that as a man who has used .243 for every deer I've shot.

Hunting (actual big game hunting) is all about stalking and tracking until you have a perfect shot on the perfect animal. As long as your rifle can hold up in rough conditions and the caliber can kill a deer or elk without causing it to run off to a different continent, the rest of the details are pretty much irrelevant.

My guess is fudds autistically obsess over caliber because they aren't very good hunters and/or don't have the physical and mental stamina to be out in the cold woods for a few days, so they think that having a unicorn rifle will expand their hunting repertoire. For fudds, hunting is the equivalent of football - when it isn't in season, the rest of the year they're talking about it with their friends and preparing for it because it's what they live for. Most hunters are just in it to collect antlers, save up for an exotic meme tag drawing in a decade, and exaggerate stories they'll drunkenly tell to their friends until next season. Because of those reasons they are lazy when it comes to the actual hunt and would rather pretend to be an expert in ballistics and their chosen caliber while they set up their blind 200 yards from their F-150 and take their shot within 3 hours of arriving.

>>33682000
>>33682061
>the point
>you

>>33682017
The problem is that most hunters don't shoot at anything bigger than deer. There just isn't a need for anything bigger than a 270 for deer. The 7mm Ackley is a fine elk cartridge if you can even afford to hunt elk.

>>33682061
What if I want to shoot paper past 100 meters?

>>33681793
But uncle fudd I don't have the for $4 a round

>>33681610
30-06 is a hard caliber to beat for a universal hunter. With that being said, I'm seriously looking at a Ruger No.1 in .35 Whelen.

>>33682118
>I'm seriously looking at a Ruger No.1 in .35 Whelen.
Why?

>>33682103
Shit man, I don't think they even sell it any more with all the cool kids shooting .243 or .25-06. I was taking the piss trying to find something with an oddball parent case that didn't have a belt.

>>33682118
>universal hunter
.45-70 gov't, my dude

Related: What can you hunt with .223? Can you reliably take deer and hog with it? I ask because I'm buying a rifle soon and have a choice of basically the same gun in .223 or .243, and as far as I can tell, the relative advantages are:

Pros of .223: Dirt cheap, endless availability, low recoil, reliably accurate to about 500 yards.

Pros of .243: Reliably accurate to 1000+ yards, not much more recoil than .223, good for basically any medium-sized game.

Is that about right? Anything else I should know?

>>33682125
>>33682141

Because it's the most beautiful rifle ever made in my humble opinion. Sir Walter Raleigh said something like 'there's never been anythign considered beautiful that didn't have some strangeness to it's dimensions." For me the No. 1 is beautiful. Also, 35 Whelen works well for primitive weapon season in my state and my H&R 45-70 is getting a wee bit boring.

Fudd's zero their rifles and only shoot at live game otherwise. They don't shoot 5000 rounds out of a tacticool AR at a paper target. Quantity over quality.

>>33681610

America had a much larger middle class in the years that most of those calibers were developed. We also enjoyed a lower cost of living, more people had more access to hobby space, and we were awash in surplus rifle actions. There was a much bigger subculture around cartridge development and (non AR) gun building.

Something to consider when you're looking at two or three rounds that all do the same thing, is that ammunition manufacturers were frequently developing similar products within a few years of each other. One would usually win out in the long run, leaving a lot of short run rifles in obscure calibers.

And then there's always boutique magnums. Richfags paying for $25,000 Ibex hunts and $50,000 trips to Africa don't give a fuck about $3 ammunition.

>>33682084
Its not my fault that I aint got the time or money to go out to Bumfuckistan, Montana and hunt for a week straight to get the perfect bull Elk/Moose/Raindeer/Mule Deer/Peacock/Grizzly/Whitetail. But fuck do I want to.

I usually just stick to good old 7.62x54r or a 30-30 when I want to use a lever gun. I haven't met something that hasn't died damn near instantly to either.

>>33682141

A universal hunting cartridge should be flat shooting, my dude.

>>33682084
>Hunting (actual big game hunting) is all about stalking and tracking until you have a perfect shot on the perfect animal

Just curious, how much hunting experience do you have?

>>33682172
>Because it's the most beautiful rifle ever made in my humble opinion
Form follows function.
>>33682172
>35 Whelen works well for primitive weapon season in my state
Since when is 35 Whelen a primitive weapon? I thought primitive weapons were bows and maybe muzzleloaders, not full power rifle cartridges.
>>33682209
Which is why the 270 is perfect.

>>33682209
a universal hunting cartridge should be capable of killing any game on the continent, my dude

>>33682238
I agree about archery and black powder. It used to be the law in my state, but my state is very liberal in all the right ways.

>>33681610
mmmmm, i see your troll post has evolved into a troll thread.

>>33682131
25-06 is objectively superior. the only way Roberts even competes. to get it in the ball park you'd have to blow it out to Ackley Improved. even then, 1/4 bore sucks.

>>33681610
Why do you call everyone that hunts; a fudd. Most of them support gun rights. You're just a faggot leftist who probably doesn't support hunting.

>>33681610
>They all cost like $2 a round
you'll shoot what, half a box a year? big deal

>>33682086
meh, 7mm anything is too light for bull elk. not saying it can't be done, but there is no reason to not go with .338 or even .375

>>33681610

Tacticools rub their dick over 300 Blackout, 300 Whisper, 6.5 Creedmore, 5.7 x 28mm., .338 Lapua

It's all the same.

>>33682316
From what I can tell, "fudd" on /k/ is a direct analogue to "casual" on /v/.

>>33682238
>Which is why the 270 is perfect
You're not wrong, if you have no plan to hunt bison or grizzly.
>a universal hunting cartridge should be capable of killing any game on the continent, my dude
Which the .30-06 most definitely is, my dude. It's also a fine choice for sheep, high country mule deer or an antelope hunt, where the 45-70 would clearly struggle, my brother.

>>33682355
/k/ calls anyone who hunts a fudd because most /k/ommandos are too lazy to do anything that involves going outside.

>>33682347
>meh, 7mm anything is too light for bull elk. not saying it can't be done, but there is no reason to not go with .338 or even .375

Retard alert.

>>33682367
I don't see why 270 couldn't kill bison or grizzlies. It has the sectional density to penetrate them.

>>33682347
>>They all cost like $2 a round
>you'll shoot what, half a box a year? big deal
That's a good point. Most "fudds" are middle class family men with decent jobs and not 4chan poorfag NEETs. Even if they use a whole box, an annual outlay of forty bucks for a couple-times-a-year weekend out with the boys is nothing.

Sometimes /k/ forgets that the whole world isn't broke twentysomething spergs getting ready for the RAHOWA.

>>33682382
maybe with a tungsten core at close range. it's a flimsy piece of lead and it's not going particularly fast

>>33682382
It works quite well on grizzly. Never tried it on a bison but no reason it won't work.

>>33681610
I own 4 different deer rifles for different deers. I have a .243 lever action for blacktail deers, a 7mm Rem Magt for mule deers and rocky mountain elk, a .338 win mag for Roosevelt elk and moose, and a .270 for whitetail deers and general all purpose deer killing.

I also own a bunch of tactical guns because I fell for memes.

>>33682195
This right here! Back in the late 1940's till 1968 you could walk into damn near any hardware store and buy up a surplus rifle for a song and in that era a lot more people had practical mechanical skills. Folks had more free time and wanted to push the limits of cartridge design, or at least what they knew as the limits of cartridge design. I have an old NRA Sporter Springfield that sometime in the early 1950's was turned into a .300 Imperial Magnum. That cartridge predated the .300 WinMag by just a few months and the two were apparently developed independently of each other, several years after it was built it was rebuilt again as a WinMag because the Imperial Magnum died off. This has happened countless times over the past 75 years and as a result there are heaps of rifles chambered in weird cartridges kept in a state of near-death by small groups of handloaders. Look at stuff like the 6 x 284 Winchester, a derivative of the 6.5 that is only good at cooking barrels in 1000 rounds and throwing shit down range at 4200fps. No mass produced ammunition, no factory rifles, yet it lingers on due to increasingly older and older rifles with low round counts having ammunition loaded for.

>>33681793
Congratulations, you just reinveted .275 Roberts a century after the fact.

>>33682347
You've never successfully hunted. It's obvious.

>>33682382

Not legal for bison in my area. Usability in all jurisdictions is an under-examined factor in determining whether something is "universal" or not.

For big animals like bison and grizzly, 180, 200, 220 grain bullets are going to beat what the .270 has to offer.

>>33682647
idk which of the two points I agrued that you're basing this off of.
if it's the half a box per year thing, that's because I have hunted. you shoot a group to check zero, and then a couple rounds at most actually taking out the animal.
7mm being too small for bull Elk is based on actually shooting and taking apart Elk, and seeing how shit bullets under 200 grain actually perform when presented with large bone mass. the shit either breaks up or dives off in weird directions.

>>33681610
30-30 is for pig
.308 or Swedish Mauser for deer

then there is this lot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherby#Calibers

>>33683284

And then you recommend .338 or .375.

Getting a little far fetched there my boy

>>33681610
>>33681895

Most hunters do use 308 or 30-06, and any actual hunter using more specialty rounds are likely reloading them at home, which becomes a whole entire hobby in itself by trying to create the "perfect" deer round.

Personally I use a Model 70 featherweight in .308 for everything from pig to elk.

>>33682086
How expensive is it to hunt elk where your at? Its like $145 here in AZ in order to fill up your freezer full of meat for months

Honestly, from what I seen, if you want to drop the animal in one shot, anything from Whitetail to Moose, and you don't want to spend a arm and a leg. Get a Mosin sporter, never seen anything survive more then two rounds from 7.65x54r. Or if you want to shoot out to farther ranges, a good 30-06, or whatever you're comfortable with. I know the x54r will eviscerate whitetail all day.

>>33683353
how is either far fetched for bull Elk? .338 Win Mag was based on development specifically targeting larger North American game. .375 H&H development was target as an all around African cartridge. neither are overkill for anything in the weight class of a bull Elk, have good trajectories, and the bullets punch through where you put them. up to and including Texas Heart Shots, on big animals.
they are the ideal.

you could say this about anything. there are small differences between them all that 'rifles loonies' care about or find worth consideration.

variety availability & quality of the bullets and brass selection, how far out you can seat bullets into the magazine you're using, long action vs short, barrel life, recoil, max range, etc.

>>33682247
That's why .300 White Male exists my man.

>>33681948
supply and demand

>>33681610
you wouldnt understand. its for people that shoot things other than paper targets

#fudd4life

>>33681948
Ita decent as a medium sized precision rifle

>>33682141
taste the rainbow. shoot the rainbow.

i suppose if your target is 100 feet away or less its ok

>>33682247
a futon is both a bed and a couch and it sucks at being either of them.

your concept of "universal cartrige" is flawed because it requires too many compromises.

when you get out of the basement and get a job, one of the first things you should learn is to use the correct tool for the job.

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>>33684100
Check'd

Also this is literally;

>Supply & Demand: The Thread

I recently came into a Winchester 94 in .32wcs. Thinking about keeping it for home defense. As I'm told that's an obscure deer hunting round, figure this is the place to ask your opinions about it.

>>33682347

Meanwhile hunters in NZ are shooting Elk/Wapiti with .270 .303 and .308 (the secret is to aim for vitals).

>>33681610
>Why do fudds...
>Do fudds enjoy.

does /k/ suffer from fuddphobia?

>>33684197
>does /k/ suffer from fuddphobia?
it suffers from an overrepresentation of basement dwellers that want to be tacticool mall ninjas when they finally can afford a firearm

>>33682347
> 7mm anything is too light for bull elk.

This kind of post is always amusing because you know there's going to be guys taking said game with said round every year. Granted, probably at much closer ranges than what a .338 would let you shoot them at.

>>33682247
.50 BMG is technically perfect for any game from any angle in any kind of environment.

Well, perfect for anything that isn't too small because those critters would just explode. But who cares about those?

>>33681942
This is part of the issue.

7mmRemMag is OP as fuck for boar and any deer in the lower 48.

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>>33681981
MFW I hunt white tail with .223 and never had trouble finding a deer. MFW another hunter from our lease had to have a search party find his deer that he shot with .300 win mag.

>>33682424
>not going particularly fast
It's a 270. It's going at Mach 2.5 with a 150 grain bullet.
>>33682927
>For big animals like bison and grizzly, 180, 200, 220 grain bullets are going to beat what the .270 has to offer
Penetration is determined more by sectional density than by total mass. A big, fat bullet isn't going as deep as a long, skinny one. The skinnier bullet will not leave as wide a hole, but it should be plenty wide enough if it's in the vital zone. Even a small hole, properly placed, can easily cause death.

>>33684393
This is what I tell my wife.
Skinny = better penetration.

>>33681942
>exuberant prices
kek

>>33681610
This is why I hate this board. There is so much more to learn about firearms and cartriges, but everyone here just wants to circle jerk about what dildo to mount to their ar/ak. When is the last time someone seriously talked about reloading? When is the last time someone on here designed a loading and shared it with us?

>>33681809
Forgot .270 Mag and .270 Short Mag

>>33682195
I have seen pictures from the 1950s and early 1960s at a a deer canp in western PA, and everyone is clad in Woolrich coats and hats, abd carrying wildly differing rifles, many of them in obscure calibers. Younger people these days just don't have a grasp of what middle class deer hunting was like in America's golden age.

>>33684393
If it's a .270 it's not going mach anything with a 150gr bullet because it's not available with a 150gr bullet.

If you'd said 120 or 130gr bullet you'd still be wrong, the factory 130gr loads are a massive 175fps faster than .30-06 throwing a 150gr bullet.

>>33682374
The great majority of the board's userbase are spoiled urban/ suburbanites who may or may not own firearms.

>>33684461
>when is the last time someone serious talked about reloading?
We can't here. Every single reloading thread is full of "I'm gonna buy a Lee press kit even though I know they're shit, validate my purchases" and "hay guise can I use this weed scale that only does grams and has no accuracy guarantee?"

>>33684541
>because it's not available with a 150gr bullet.
Bullshit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/454791/federal-premium-vital-shok-ammunition-270-winchester-150-grain-sierra-gameking-boat-tail-box-of-20

>>33682272
So what's the rules now?

>>33684541
Off the top of my head, Hornady, Federal, and Winchester all offer factory loadings in 150gr .270s.

You lose roughly 100fps shooting a 150gr .270 compared to a 150gr .30-06, and in exchange you jump up in SD by about 25%, something you're going to want for tough game.

I don't hunt brown bears though, so I'll leave that to the Canucks and Alpine hunters to hammer out.

>>33682354
Can't tell if bait or retarded

>>33684541
>2850
maybe with a 28" barrel. realistically you're going to see mid-high 2700s, and no that's not particularly fast.

>>33681610
i always thought they bought random rifles at walmart/cabelas when they were "on sale" and didn't look at what caliber they were because it was such a good deal. then they justify the caliber after being stuck with it

>>33681809
THESE NIGGAS DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE WSSM'S

TRY HAVING A RIFLE IN 223 WSSM

TRY FINDING FACTORY AMMUNITION

THEN YOU MAY COMPLAIN.

>>33684461
26.25gr of CFE223 and a 65gr SGK bullet for general purpose 5.56 load. Useful on smaller deer and hogs out to 150y.

I'd give you one for .308, but since boring old Hornady American Whitetail groups under 1", I haven't been motivated to try.

>>33681981
This

where I work we have a group of fudds who believe it's the funniest thing to try their 338 win mag BARs and 460 weatherby's against the local whitetails, and then they either
a. don't find/hit anything
b. wonder why there's almost no useable meat left.

>>33684692
Says who? Have you chronographed it?

>>33684704
You did this to yourself. You just had to try and fit it in that AR15 magwell, didn't you?

>>33684731
I haven't shot factory ammo in years. I'm going off this http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.270+Winchester.html
though it does fairly closely mirror my anecdotal experience with handloads

>>33684717
Thank you anon. I will run this by my in house autistic ballistician after work and see what we can see about this load. I have an 18" AR, so no .223 hunting for me.

>>33684768
Still faster than a 30-06 with the same sectional density bullet would be.

>>33681668

>Its a art

I can hear the twang of a banjo from here.

>>33684788
30 cal 180s are close enough to the same SD and a couple hundred more ft-lbs of energy.

>>33684813
Good, now git boy!

>>33684835
Different anon. 300 Win Mag is even better. And .338 is still better than that.

But he probably has a .270 and not a .30-06, so if .270 will work on a brown bear, he probably shouldn't go buy a whole new rifle in either caliber.

Because back in the day, a gun and its cartridge were often designed together, ie the hunting rifle was designed from the get-go with a special snowflake cartridge in mind. If you wanted that rifle because it was an awesome rifle, you had to use that cartridge or you were SOL.

Nowadays, there is absolutely no reason to use those retarded antiquated cartridges except to act like you're some kind of an expert hunter because you use some obscure round normies have never heard of.

inb4 a bunch of REEEEEEEEing hicks. It's the truth, deal with it. 90% of those obscure hunting rounds have virtually identical ballistics

>>33684874
I don't want to sound like I'm hating on .270. I own one, I use it for deer. I used it once for cow elk and it got the job done but wasn't happy with the performance. it blew most of the bullet up on the shoulder and I got a lucky deflection into the lung. I bought a .338 for stuff bigger than deer and am happy with the results. it's not like owning a 2nd hunting rifle is a huge investment if you plan on hunting a variety of game sizes. if i had to only own 1, I'd default to the larger one.

I'm not a fan of .300 win mag. the neck is too short to take advantage of the case capacity. I reload so ammo cost isn't a huge variable for me. I'd go with 30-338 or .308 Norma mag. as it stands I have no use for a .30 cal.

>>33684692
M2 ball out of a garand is 150 grains at 2750, and I'm pretty sure M2 isn't the hottest load out there.

>>33685183
that post was about .270 Winchester. the narrower bore causes pressure to spike faster than 30-06, so velocity is going to be slightly less than 30-06 with the same bullet weight. .270 makes up for that with sectional density and ballistic coefficient. though .270 falls behind when you start loading heavier bullets in the 30-06. personally I'm not actually a fan of .270 with 150s. I use .270 for deer only, and with 130s in a lightweight 22" barreled mountain rifle type set-up.

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>>33681875

>>33685278
Would you consider recoil on a 130gr bullet excessive for a youth shooter?

>>33685366
depends on the kid and the age. mine is pretty light and was a bit of a handful when I was 12 years old, but wasn't unreasonable. it's not bad offhand or kneeling/squatting/sitting. shooting groups prone or on the bench is going to beat them up pretty quick. if the kid can handle shooting a Mosin, they'll be more than fine.

>>33684461
Most hobbyists are bad at their hobby. They don't put in the effort to learn about it in-depth and usually end up making the tools an end in themselves.

>>33681610
I always liked going through the gun cabinet when the deer turned up, they bother my sheep and make the cattle cranky- basically they're a noxious pest here and an excuse to drag out some heinous, overpowered blasters from yesteryear we'd probably never use very often otherwise.
Plus, its just funny when they get blown the fuck up

>>33685444
That's what I was afraid of. I was looking between a 7lbs stalking rifle in .243 or .270 that my kids could shoot from the bench. Looks like .243 it is, then.

>>33685366
Like >>33685444 said, it really depends.

I have a Henry BB Steel in .357 mag and the recoil feels incredibly light. But that's mostly due to the heavy weight of the gun as well.

>>33685515
.243 is definitely softer shooting. you might also look at 6.5 Creedmoor. still soft shooting but better bullet for largish game.
if you reload might also look for a nice used .260 Remington. dead cartridge but you can still get brass. my mom is tiny and has a pre- Cerberus Remington 700 Mountain Rifle with detachable box mag in .260 Rem. it's amazing.

>>33681809
I want off this wild ride.

>>33682367
>>33684118
>>33684331
>>33683770
>t. someone who has never used a .45-70

>>33681706
>not practicing exclusively with 5.56 and 9mm for the racewar.

it's like you want to be unprepared.

>>33685980
I'll be using my 9 shot .45-70 when that day comes, sir.

>>33685976
45-70 starts losing to 30-06 in energy after 50 yards. it's good for brush work, but that's about it. if you want something good for heavy/dangerous game, and doesn't have the trajectory of a football, get a .375 H&H

>>33686018
30-06 starts losing gfs to .45-70 after 4 inches

>>33686006
let me guess, Marlin 1895 Cowboy? my buddy has one. enjoy humping around your heavy ammo, slow reloads, and no compatibility with the rest of the right wing death squad. you're going to be a liability

>>33684379
I stick to 30-30 for everything desu, but it's "bushy" here, and I don't like being a treestand-feeder-500 meter shooter fag.

>>33686051
I'm not going anywhere with any of you spergs. I'm going to sit up on my porch, crack open a Dr. Pepper, and shoot anyone who comes up muh hill: white, black, blue helmet, black helicopter, or otherwise.

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>>33686034
>tfw I lost my gfs too

>>33684565
I've not seen the weed scale, but the Lee press is literally every thread
No one ever mentions Dillon>>33684584

>>33686118
who sets up at 500m when they have a feeder?

>>33686168
it was hyperbole
also
>fuds

>>33686122
you're going to go inside to sleep and or masturbate at some point. you need a team.

>>33686006
>tfw get to be called john wayne fearfully by the nigs as I stalk them in the woods of Michigan

>>33686185
No I won't join your team; I'll take my chances. Just have to get out the message that the potential gain in supplies up here ain't worth the losses that will be incurred taking them.

>>33686185
>>33686224
And who are you to say that I don't jack it right there on my porchrocker??

>>33686155
Theres nothing wrong with the lee single stage for beginners

>>33686224
>>33686232
>get hungry/sleepy
>go inside to cook/sleep
>a wild molotov appears
>he uses 'burn your fucking house down'
>it's super effective
>run outside to not die
>get shot and die

>>33686188
I stalked a Masshole hipster through the forest yesterday, the animals told me he was coming. It wasgiod fun.

>>33686282
>shoot you dead 500 meters down the road
>use your corpse as a fucktoy for a week.

>>33682158
I'd say go for .243 if you'll be hunting just for the sheer variety of factory hunting loads available, not to mention the lighter loads are screaming fast.
You're going to get a lot more bang for your buck when you can sling a 100 grain projectile at something like 3000 fps.

>>33686335
Keep it fresh innaspringhouse

>>33686335
>500 meters
>with a 45-70
you're going to go blind if you keep aiming at the sun like that

Because it's a free market, we can, so fuck yourself?

>>33681809
.35 Remington

>>33682223
I played Oregon Trail when I was a kid

>>33686356
>100 grain projectile at something like 3000 fps
can we stop pretending this is a big deal? closer to 4000fps is impressive rifle velocity, and nothing is impressive about 100 grain bullets

>>33681793
Side note. It also fits in a 30-30 but because of the lack of rim, it will completely fuck thr gun up. I have to thank my range buddy for that because he accidently left one round in a bag of 30-30's he gave me.

>>33686458
you mistook an x57 for a turdy-turdy?

>>33686486
It was a 257 roberts and yes. They were both LRN rounds that my buddy had handloaded. There is also a reason I wear glasses or contacts now.

>>33686451
95gr Nosler ballistic tips around 3100fps is wonderfully impressive when you're hunting within 300yards on white tail around here, especially since that's within point blank range.

4000fps would be even more amazing if you didn't burn up half your barrel life just finding a load.

>>33686802
.243 Win is dumb. there is nothing it can do that a 6mm Remington can't do better. .243 Win is a meme that got pushed purely by marketing. if Remington had twisted the 6mm Rem for heavy bullets, .243 Win would not be popular today. Rem correctly realized that 6mm is varmint shit, and didn't want to engage in faggotry.

6.5x57 should be the standard deer cartridge for the US but we are all faggots and can't ever seem to collectively get on the .264 train.

>4000fps would be even more amazing if you didn't burn up half your barrel life
heat destroys barrels, not velocity. we're talking big game rifles. you aren't going to fire enough to erode shit. you're not nuking dozens of prairie dogs in succession with it.

>>33684354
I hunt deer with a 7mm Rem Mag. 150 grain Sierra Gameking, Winchester Large rifle magnum primers, 55 grains of IMR 4350 powder. Federal and Hornady brass. Produces a good light deer round.

7.62x39 solve every problem.

>>33686246
Other than everything about them being shit and a significantly better press (Lyman Crusher) being roughly the same price?

>>33686155
Nobody ever mentions Dillon because there's maybe 10 people on all of /k/ that shoot enough to justify ANY progressive press, and the Dillons are the most expensive of the available progressives.

I personally have a LnL AP and while it's decent, a 650XL would've been significantly better for what I do and only about $50 more expensive. I straight up cheaped out, and I have no idea why. I've got 2 P-W shotshell presses, not like I'm a stranger to dropping mad monies on reloading shit.

I also forgot the guy that doesn't know there's a difference between grains, grams, and ounces, and the 5 people vehemently insisting the cost savings isn't worth it for 9mm/.40/.45/5.56 even after a dozen people post their half-cheapest-reman loads. Oh, also the guy that insists wax slugs or cut shells are somehow reloading related and good for anything other than fucking around.

>>33686970
that's actually a really light load. you could get pretty much the same performance from a 6.5x55 with 140s and save 10 grains of powder.

>>33687039
I realize that, but the model 70 I bought just so happens to be in 7mm Mag.

>>33686927
>there is nothing it can do that a 6mm Remington can't do better.

Well let's see...
>fit in a short-action rifle
>be formed from .308 brass
>handle bullets ranging from 45 to 115gr in a factory-stock rifle with factory-stock twist rate
>have a barrel life measured with 4-5 digits
>have a recoil impulse in a light hunting rifle tolerable by women, children, and faggots
Gee, seems like there's an awful lot it can do that 6mm Remington can't.

>>33686927
The more velocity you have, the more the bullet itself will heat the barrel as it screams along it.

>>33686451
.243 can hit 4000fps with 70gr bullets though.

>>33686927
> Everyone else is an idiot so they should just do what I do instead
> Bullets have a friction coefficient of 0

Sir, would you happen to have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

>>33687075
>Barrel life of <1000 rounds

>>33687075
At what velocity does the rotational force imparted on the rifling just start tearing a bullet apart?

>>33687062
Will a 1-in-10 twist stabilize 110gr bullets? That would be nice.

>>33687157
Dunno. Considering there's legit published loads for 45gr bullets going 4300+fps I'm assuming higher than that.

>>33687140
Try about 4500. Standard hunting loads with 90-110gr bullets have hunting-accurate barrel lives of 10k+. Barrel wear numbers are both vastly misrepresented and from a sub-MOA-required match accuracy standpoint.

>>33687187
Depends on the bullet. 110gr softpoint with a long bearing surface and a modest boattail? Yes. 110gr VLD with its short bearing surface and humongous boattail? Maybe.

>>33681610
>.30-30
Just fucking kill yourself already for implying this disgusting meme of a round is worth even spitting at

>>33687223
> Standard hunting loads with 90-110gr bullets have hunting-accurate barrel lives of 10k+

Literally no offense met, but do you have a link or second opinion I can use to verify this. The only reason I haven't purchased a lever gun in .243 yet is fear of short barrel life.

>>33687310
>from a sub-MOA-required match accuracy standpoint
What he is saying is that the wear is grossly exaggerated and you'll maintain serviceable accuracy up to 10,000 rounds. If you had a 0.5 moa shooter it might end up a 2 moa by the time you start reaching closer to 10,000. It's not like you're gonna have a sewer pipe for a barrel after shooting a 1,000 rounds

>>33687310
Me and everyone I hunt with that're still using our dad's/granddad's .243's with their factory barrels?

I mean, I have a late-60's .243 I have personally put over 12,000 rounds through that was my dad's, and I'd bet that he put at least 4,000 rounds through it. It's still a 1.1-1.2", 3-shot group gun despite the pencil barrel. And my dad shot a LOT of javelina and Cou's whitetail with it using 85gr Sierra's at book-max loads.

It's hard to give concrete proof on barrel life on a .243 because there are so many variables.
>higher velocity loads wear faster than lower velocity loads because less powder burnt, less friction, and generally longer peak pressures due to slower powders used
>stainless barrels wear about 1.2-1.3x faster than CMV barrels
>shooting a lot of rounds really fast (such as plinking or match shooting) wears barrels faster than letting the barrel cool off (such as hunting)

I could burn a stainless .243 barrel in under 1k rounds if I had it on, say, an AR10 by magdumping book-max 60gr varmint loads. Or I could make one last 25k rounds by shooting 115gr DTAC loads under book max and letting the barrel cool to ambient between each shot.

>>33687245
>30-30
>>meme
want to know how I can tell you aren't a hunter?

>>33681610
>What advantage do they even supposedly offer over each other?
Because you want to ensure you have the perfect load in case you encounter a 155lb deer vs a 150lb deer.

>>33687427
>want to know how I can tell you spend $1.00 for each round on a $400 lever gun
Also I only hunt shotgun season for da durr

>>33687510
>1.00 p/r
lrn2reload

>>33687065
Not quite. It's more of a function of the quantity of powder and its burn time in relation to the bore diameter.

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You sound jealous that you can't hit a dear.

Pic related is me.

>>33687598
Okay, try that handstand again but this time without somebody holding your antlers.

>>33687598
>dear
Jesus christ

>>33682000
I like recoil
>t. first gun was an M48

>>33682118
>Universal hunter
>Not .375

You better be using lead free bullets senpai.

>>33687691
>.375 on small game

It's like you're a vegetarian or something

>>33684541

I'm always at a loss as to why the .270 can't be discussed in any detail on this board. Everyone here can shit out ballistics tables for every caliber listed on world.guns.ru but as soon as this one is discussed, misinformation, drool and feces start being
>>33684393

150gr .270 and 180gr .30-06 both have an SD of around .27something if I recall correctly. I know you can buy 160 grain .270, but I don't see it often. 200 grain .30-06 is all over the place and has higher SD, 220 grain is around and pwns all of it out of a modern rifle.

Not even hating, the .270 is a somewhat better round for all kinds of hunting, just not for grizzly bears.

>>33681610
Gotta have something to talk about in the deer stand.

>>33684881

What about having an appreciation for the old guns they're chambered in?

Savage 99's, Remington model 8's, old Mauser builds. You don't have to be a hipster cunt to want to take something like that hunting.

>>33687759
Because .270 is ONLY appropriate for hunting, and then ONLY within 350-400 yards.

And even then it's outclassed by other long-standing hunting rounds like .308, 7mm-08, .25-06, .30-06, etc. It's a good round that does nothing special while having all the drawbacks of being a long-action round. It's fine, but there's better.

>>33687623
Underrated post

>>33687820
If I were grabbing a rifle off a rack, I'd take 150gr .270 in an instant over 165gr .308 or 150gr 7mm-08. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, better velocity and SD than both.

>>33687878
Yes, it does have better velocity than both. The 7mm-08 will have close enough SD to not matter. However both the 150gr 7mm-08 and 165gr .308 will have about 30% less recoil and an inch shorter bolt throw, and trajectories within 350m will be within 2" of each other. For many people the short bolt throw and lower recoil matter more.

And if flat trajectory is what you want, 139gr 7mm-08 actually shoots flatter than 150gr .270 while having even less recoil. And it still has sufficient penetration for elk.

>>33687910
Bolt throw I don't care about, but I didn't realize recoil was that reduced on 7mm-08.

>>33686927

>.243 is dumb because this obscure dead round with few rifles chambered for it was better, so if you use .243 instead of this unavailable rifle/round you're also dumb. Don't forget that even though the .260 can't do what you want it to, your desired purpose is totally wrong! When you're looking for a low recoil deer rifle, you should look no further than this esoteric varmint cartridge in a rifle that can't spit heavy bullets.

>>33681610
well here in fucking ohio we have to use straight walls so we get a small choice of over powered pistol rounds or 45-70 so ya

>>33687926
.270 has more recoil than most people think, at least by what's measurable (free recoil). Even 165gr .308 kicks less.

And yeah, one of the reasons 7mm-08 remains popular is it has abnormally low recoil for what it is, mainly because it throws a fairly light bullet at modest velocities (unless you handload--it's a real sleeper for reloaders).

>>33687948
wtf, why?

That seems really arbitrary.

>>33687989
Flat state with high hunter density is their reasoning. Limits the range of misses.

>>33687989
Hunting laws in some states are incredibly arbitrary or are based on something not grounded in reality
Illinois doesn't allow rifle hunting because they think that missed shots will pop some kid a mile away even though they can not cite an incident where a person took an honest shot at an animal, missed and nailed someone outside of the hunting area. Shits all about control

>>33687820

>.270 is outclassed by .308
What in the fuck

I mean I get what you're trying to say, .270 is a long round that burns more powder than the '08 family, but frankly the cartridges you're putting forward show rookie numbers. Length of bolt travel doesn't matter for hunting. The recoil on a .270 is already very manageable.

>>33688087
So go with .25-06 if being long-action and having noticeable-but-manageable recoil matters to you. Even flatter shooting, even higher velocity, even higher SD.

>>33688087
And it is. Just not at normie hunting distances. .270 has the ballistic coefficient of a wiffle ball until you get into the ultraheavy-for-caliber match bullets. At 600 yards 165gr .308 retains more energy and matches the trajectory of 150gr .270. 150gr .270 won't even be supersonic at 800 yards from a standard 22-24" hunting rifle barrel, 165gr .308 will be. This is even more true when comparing 130gr .270 to 150gr .308, which are the "default" loads for each.

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>>33681610
>Dad's favorite deer gun is a .25WSSM
>He's taken a deer at 450 fucking yards with it
>He's on his last box of ammo and there hasn't been new production since around 2008
I think 6.5 grendel might be an adequate replacement, but the velocity isn't quite there

>>33688129

>At 600 yards

What you'd call "normie" I'd call responsible. I'm not going to shoot at animals 600 yards away with either rifle. .270 does have a longer point blank range though, and that simply matters more in context. You're arguing for qualities that are totally irrelevant when chasing game in the field.

>>33688129
1. We're splitting hairs here, because nobody I know is shooting durr at 800m

2. You're numbers are off. Take a look at Hornady .270 140gr SST compared to .308 165gr SST.

BC is .495 (.270) vs .447 (.308), and the .308 is already 300fps slower at 500y. No damn way that bullet is magically going faster at 800y.

>>33688212
You didn't specify it being better at any one aspect, you just said it was BETTER. Which it isn't. It can't into long range, it can't into light recoil/spotting your own shots, it can't into short action, it can't into cheap reloading. It's a DECENT medium-game hunting round and that's it. It's not multipurpose like the other calibers.

>>33681895
That's like saying why so many pointless cars? Why so many different handguns?

They all do the same thing. I mean do you really need Glocks, XDs, and MPs? Theyre all the same.

should only be glock tho desu

>>33688103
If .25-06 could load 120-130gr bullets it would have been the bees knees, but I don't think it can load past 115gr, can it?

>>33684461
>>33684717
My AR load is whatever 55g BT bullets I can find and 25g of H335 with a small rifle mag primer. Mid level plinker load

Match grade 308 I use a 175g SMK. SMK is also reportedly a decent hunting bullet. 42.8g of RL15, gets me about 2680 fps and will stay supersonic to 1000 yds.

>>33682194
That's not a good thing...

>>33686018
What is the maximum penetration for .30-06? Because there are .45-70 loads that measure penetration in feet in soft tissue. I'm genuinely curious. Because I don't know the maximum bullet weight for .30-06, but I know there are .45-70 loads in the 550-600 gr range, which is why people still use it.

>>33688376
I haven't seen over 115gr in factory but the standard twist rate should handle 130gr+ softpoints. Finding heavy .25cal bullets is kinda difficult though.

>>33688460
Blacktip AP .30-06 penetrates 80"+ of gel. Heaviest factory I've seen is 220gr RNSP, but there's load data for 250gr bullets.

>>33687759
Just to point it out, there are actually 180gr 270 loads, but they are extremely rare, more for the handloader. I don't know anyone who's used them though because 150gr seems to work fine for elk and moose.

>>33688137
You can still buy .25 wssm online.

>>33688460
> When you absolutely must force feed someone 2.5 tablespoons of lead.

>>33681895
>Just why so many pointless round?
I bet the deer don't think its pointless

>>33688993

deer barely even think to being with, I don't really care about their opinion

>216 posts
Fudds are apparently the easiest demographic of /k/ to troll

>>33686018
You might like .375 Ruger

>>33689439
Probably, but who cares, it turned into a good thread.

>>33687062
are you a retard? literally nothing you said was correct.

>fit in a short-action rifle
it is a short action cartridge. I wouldn't mind it in a standard though, for getting the most out of 110s or VLDs. still works fine in a short action and stomps on .243 Win.

>be formed from .308 brass
I neither have a .308 nor want one.

>handle bullets ranging from 45 to 115gr in a factory-stock rifle with factory-stock twist rate
I'm not sure if you're arguing the average .243 Win's 1-10 vs 1-9 of the 6mm Rem as not being able to shoot light bullets, or don't know that 6mm Rem came with 1-9 and thinking it had the 1-12 from the .244 Rem
anything marked 6mm Rem generally has a 1-9 twist specifically made with 100gr bullets in mind. 6mm Rem was a rebrand of the .244 Remington which had a 1-12 twist, but the die was already cast and .243 Win had already won the marketing war. it still handles light bullets.

>have a barrel life measured with 4-5 digits
PROTIP: when you barrel gets hot, stop shooting for a minute or two.
SAAMI is only 5k psi hotter than .243 Win. that doesn't translate to dramatic levels of heat difference. you're just being a faggot

>have a recoil impulse in a light hunting rifle tolerable by women, children, and faggots
there is no discernible difference than a .243 Win

>>33681875
OP pissed the fudds off by pointing out the obvious.


Again.

>>33687598
Yup.


You look like the type of cousin-fucker that'd spell deer as "dear".

>>33689598
>.375 Ruger
I don't actually understand why this cartridge exists. the price premium for magnum length actions is mostly artificial and a hold over from earlier days. switching over a production line for a run of actions in a different size has a cost, but, it's not large. .375 Ruger exists purely to save them money, not you

it's fun you dork.

>not spending hours researching the weights of various stocks, actions, scopes, and barrel contours
>never running ballistic data to compare the performance of different cartridge-bullet combinations at various barrel lengths
>tfw you will never have the ultimate 0.25 MOA ultralight suppressed compact mountain rifle that can also shoot long range and is chambered for something that doesn't burn through barrels and has good available brass and a few 'back-up' choices for projectiles and powder in case hornady gets backlogged for a year or mass panic buying happens again

>>33687598
>paying somebody to cut up your deer
no wonder you're fat, you can't manage doing simple tasks for yourself.

556, 300 blackout, and 458 socom are the only calibres you ever could need

>>33681610
If you only shoot at a range why own anything other than 22lr?

>>33690649
Nice memes familia

>>33690828
Because 22lr is boring as fuck to shoot

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>>33690224
> tfw you will never have the ultimate 0.25 MOA ultralight suppressed compact mountain rifle that can also shoot long range and is chambered for something that doesn't burn through barrels and has good available brass and a few 'back-up' choices for projectiles and powder in case Hornady gets backlogged for a year or mass panic buying happens again

>>33690881
It saves you money and a hole in a piece of paper from a 22lr is the same as a hole in a piece of paper from a 223.

>>33681610
>Why do fudds have like 500 nearly identical chamberings for hunting deer? They all cost like $2 a round, are obscure as hell, and have a subsequently limited selection of loads/components.

You don't have to buy your own meat, you cosplay faggot cocksucker. Until you pay your own rent, you'll never understand.

>>33690907
Because I already have a air rifle for dirt cheap plinking in my back yard. I go to the range for load testing, holster work, and 200y work.

>>33690931
Now you get it. 308 and 30-06 are boring, having multiple different cartridges for us to argue over keeps things fun. Also 6.5x55 master race

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>>33690912
>You don't have to buy your own meat, you cosplay faggot cocksucker. Until you pay your own rent, you'll never understand.

What an irrelevation, pointless response to OP's question. That is the most stupid, stereotypical /k/ retard response you could give

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>>33691023
>What an irrelevation, pointless response to OP's question. That is the most stupid, stereotypical /k/ retard response you could give

lol, faggot pussy living in mom's basement. I would urinate on you in public and laugh.

>>33681610
I agree with you for the most part. The calibers you listed are good enough for most use cases. Certainly there's no reason for anything else that's similar in caliber and muzzle energy to those ones.

The only reason I see to use other weird cartridges for hunting is if you want something more powerful than even .30-06. I'd hunt with 300 win mag or 300 RUM if I could afford to.

>>33684704
Which is actually a shame. I think there are real military applications for 223 WSSM. It will fucking blow through armor like it's not even there.

>>33681809
You could neck down 308 brass to 7-08 right?

22 magnum
.223 rem
.308 win
.300 win mag

What could you not hunt with all 4 of these in your gun safe, albeit massive game like elephants?

>>33692000

>22 magnum

All you need is 22lr if you've got a .223

The only calibers I'd own outside those is 6.5 Creedmoor for paper punching, and 12 gauge.

I also have some 7.62x54r mosins, but those are for fun, not practical use.

Then there's pistol rounds...

>>33691893
Neck wall would be too thick. You'd run a risk of pressure spikes, but people used to do it.

>>33692038
Isn't 22 mag just 22lr with more powder, so you could take longer range shots?
I see your point about .223 though.

>33692000
pretty sure you could easily take an elephant with a 300 wm, I suspect that round would reach the vitals no problem.

>>33688504
>Blacktip ap penetrates 80"+ of gel
That's good to know, but something else to consider is how AP will act in a real flesh body. Say you are taking a shot on a big 5 animal, or something comparable, is a .30 caliber ~200gr projectile icepicking or tumbling going to be as an effective stopper as .458 caliber 5-600gr projectile which may mushroom out to even larger?

I am not by any means a ballistic or Newtonian physics expert, but i haven't seen anyone test them side by side, even in gel.
>>33688693
Something to point out:
>437gr=1oz
>Most shotgun slugs are 7/8 to 1 and 1/8 ounces (383 to 492 grains)
So you are making a projectile that weighs 20-50% more into a shape that is only ~65% of the width, going the same speed or faster .
Big game cartridges are fucking nuts for penetration m8.

After reading this entire thread, I've come to the conclusion that the reason is illiteracy.

The Fudds get confused by all the "that thur squiggly shit affer the 7," so they buy whatever round Remington feels like vendor locking them into.

>>33690907
>this round is boring
>here's how it's similar to [other boring round]
Thanks I guess.

>>33690097
see>>33681901

>>33692000
upland birds/waterfowl

>>33692827
in a way, gun manufacturers soft-lock us into a handful of commercially viable cartridges and one or two wildcat calibers

>>33692899
What would you use for that, aside from a 12ga?
I don't hunt so I genuinely don't know.
I was just trying to imagine a "go to" gun safe without going overboard for nearly any game you could imagine (with the exception of really obscure game like Elephant).

>22lr
>223 rem
>308 win
>300 win mag
>12ga
>Air rifle? .17, or .22 cal?

>>33692965
12ga is your bottom-bitch for shotguns because it can do most shotgun applications well, but some goose/turkey hunters prefer 10ga.

Some guys that exclusively hunt shit like doves or rabbits will go to 16, 20, or 28ga

>>33687019
Il start a decent reloading thread once my new dies come in. I dont know why i was a jew and bought lee dies, theyre straight garbarge.

Ive got a redding t7 as my main press, not really sure why i went with a turret instead of a single stage but i love it.

>>33693014
Can't forget .410, it's second to 12ga in utility. .410 is the best round for getting rid of anything close small and furry.

>>33693014
>>33693044
So similar to having a 22lr and a .223 rem, would you have a 12ga and a 410ga?

>>33693047
i can't really imagine why you'd want to carry a 12ga and .410 simultaneously. 12ga shells go as small as 7.5 or 8 shot commercially while still retaining an abundance of buckshot/slug loads. the .410 is fairly anemic, and there are very few situations where i'd choose it over 12ga

>>33693091
quieter report, and fewer pellets to remove.

>>33685366
Nah that'll kill youths just fine

>>33693161
fucking kek

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>>33681942
>exhuberant prices

>>33686993
I was waiting for this post

>>33687459
top kek