>Not repelling the communist incursion with your trusty scout

Because semiauto guns and variable power scopes exist grandpa

>muh Colonel

Colonel fuckin' Sanders more like.

>>33671284
>not averaging one dead commie per round

>>33671345
>not averaging one dead commie per round with a lot more rounds per minute with a scoped AR-10, Vepr, SCAR 17, or M1A

>>33671246
what is the best budget scope for scout mounting, or medium magnification red dot? newguns here

>>33671246
Go to bed Jeff

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>>33671246
>not being a commie

cyka blyat amerikanski

>>33671246
i dont understand why jeff cooper thought that was a good idea

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>>33671453

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love me some scouts, scopes and silencers

>>33671246
The concept of the scout rifle is retarded.

>>33671738
I like this. I want to do build something like this one day. Bolt actions are great suppressor platforms. Given how popular suppressors are these days this is a definite advantage to the scout rifle.

>>33671738
What kinda loads do you shoot through that? How well does the twist rate handle heavier rounds?

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>>33671738
>stainless and wood

>>33671246

Because the AWB sunset over a decade ago.

>>33671284
Semi-auto existed when Jeff Cooper created the scout rifle concept. The reason he chose a bolt action was because he wanted to save weight.

>>33671738
>Ruger scout rifles have had batches with non-concentric threading
They just had to fuck it up, didn't they?

>>33671246
What are the advantages to scout scopes over traditional?

>>33671901
its presumably easier to acquire a target quickly and maintain your field of vision and you can work the bolt like a mongoloid I suppose

>>33671901
In the day of magazine fed bolt guns, none.
It made some sense when clip loading was more common to have an optic and the ability to load from clips. Since we can just throw another mag in our *insert x mag fed bolt gun* there is no need to have the forward mounted optic

>>33671901
It compensates for the disadvantages of the limits of firearms technology circa the time of it's inception.

Now we have lightweight, automatic action, gorillion round magazine rifles with red dot optics. It's a novelty now more than anything.

>>33671890

Light semiautos did not. If you wanted a semiauto, you had a heavy-ass military-pattern battle rifle and not much else.

There's a reason most of the criteria that Cooper envisioned with scout rifles existed on milsurp rifles that were everywhere and were being bubba'd at the time for cheap deer rifles.

It's an obsolete, outdated concept.

>>33671246
>scope mounted on your scout rifle for muh field of view
>not using iron sights

Wew lawd

M1a scout owner checking in. Hit a jack rabbit running at 100 yds with it this weekend.

>>33671901
so you can still load rifle with stripper clips rather than loading one by one

>>33671991
>Light semiautos did not
What action do you have in mind that has been invented since the 80s?

>>33671991
>It's an obsolete, outdated concept.
The concept was a lightweight, portable rifle that could kill any animal up to 400 kilos in weight at all practical ranges. That's obsolete?

>>33672027
>not using iron sights
The reason Cooper preferred a scoutscope was because it obviates the need to focus your eye on objects at different distances.

>>33672076
This, the concept still has plenty of merit outside of military contexts.

Even in a military conflagration, someone who knows how to use a scout rifle would be a credible threat, especially at further ranges, where 5.56 looses steam.

>>33671246
Bolt action is best action

Prove me wrong
>protip: you can't

>>33671427

I'm pretty happy with my 4x Weaver, they're about $190, I wouldn't go any more budget than that, they're finicky enough as it is.

>>33671246
>7.62x51 NATO KILLS COMMIES DEAD

>>33672027

Killing stuff you're not going to eat is gay.

>>33673032
I agree, most of the time. But pest control is a thing.

Scout rifle as a concept was out of date when it was conceived.

>>33672076
>What action do you have in mind that has been invented since the 80s?
The SCAR 17 is significantly lighter weight and easier on the shooter than an M14, G3, or FAL.

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>>33671246
Cawse I got mah trusty M1A hee hee hee.

>>33673081
>putting your real name as your trip
are you retarded

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>>33673212

>>33673212
Lurk more new friend.

>>33673162

The FAL has an adjustable gas system buddy.

>literally no recoil if set correctly.

>>33671572

Because he was an idealist born a hundred years too late.

It's a good concept, but it was outdated by the time he came around. He was basically a reactionary, imagining himself as an explorer of the frontier, but with the technology available at his own time.

Kinda sad. It's like seeing Grandpa tell his friends about this great new idea he has for portable record players.

>>33673361
Jeff probably been a fucking godlike adventurer/safarigoer pre-WWI.

>>33671738
>retard high, swept, hollow rings which prevent access to the action from above
this is an exact and brief critique of everything that is wrong with 'scout rifle' people. the list and autistic adherence to it is more important than the end it is supposed to achieve.
bravo.

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>>33671246
FOR ONCE, I wish this thread would be a discussion about the concept/philosophy

>of long-eye-relief

That's what we really need to hammer out here, you silly chuckle fucks.

>>33673799

>low light causes issues
>Restricted to low-mid magnification
>damn near impossible to cowitness

No benefits. Either put a conventional scope that will do its job well, or a nonmag optic that will do its job well. No reason to have an inbetween that can't actually do anything right.

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>>33673829
>implications

>>33673533
>prevent access to the action from above
RGS cant use stripper clips so who cares also you can also load single rounds from above the action with those rings. admittedly i'd get something with a longer eye relief if i had to do it again but the see through rings would stay.
>retard high
sorry I like switching between scopes and irons.

>>33671811
only the cheapest

>>33673347
Has anyone EVER done that correctly?

GOD DAMN COMMIES TRYIN TO TAKE MY GUNS!

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I like mine as a hunting rifle, but you can pack an AR10 for not a whole lot more weight and have a more effective fighting rifle.

>>33671819
they also stated making a blued and walnut one, but its in 450 bushmaster for some reason

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>>33671738
Would a variable magnification red dot with unlimited eye relief ever be possible?

>>33673799
The idea was to allow the use of stripper clips for reloading, and to allow for a rear back-up sight to be installed. Therefore, quick-detach mounts for the forward mounted scope were a must.

But the setup was so visually memorable, and gun people are so fucking dumb, that no one remembered those little details. Result: People would take a Remington 700 with no stripper clip guide, hard-mount a long-eye-relief scope on the barrel, and call it a "scout".

Gun people are stupid as hell.

>>33673212
>Phil ossifer Stone
>philosopher stone

Yea you need to be 18 or at least not mentally retarded to post here.

Why use a scout rifle, something that is basically still a concept that hasn't been proven and not you know a military rifle?

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So what do you chamber in for scout rifle considering you apply it as a team marksman support role. So to say;
>5 man team
>4 with AR
>1 with Scout rifle

do we chamber in 5.56 for ammo commonality or do we up the caliber to .308 to give it the extra umf? Also if each rifleman has a sidearm to fit his roll what do we give our Scout rifleman to balance? PCC to match team sidearms ammo or SBR to match riflemans ammo?

>>33676371
DMR is always .308 even in the military. Everyone gets the same handgun.

>>33676381
Not true. DMR should be same caliber. Different round? You're an organic sniper.

>>33676371
There is no such thing as a 556 scout rifle. It must be full power or it's just a slow rifle with dumb sights

>>33673347
"No recoil" is an exaggeration but it is light for .308, however if you adjust it like that and fire the rifle with no support (i.e. Rambo hipfire it) the spent case dribbles out at best and it is not likely to cycle in the next round.

IS there a bolt action thats takes 20rd .308 Pmgas? What about a boltgun that takes STANAG mags?

>>33671246
it's still a bolt action, elmer

>>33676441
mossberg MVP

So if Scout rifles as per the original concept are retarded, what can be done to salvage the concept?

Ultra lightweight Battle Rifle caliber gun with use at medium to long ranges

>>33671890
My 16in AR was 6lbs before I put a heavy ass strike eagle on it in a ADM mount. a scoped AR under 8lbs is totally doable.

>>33676381
So now its a question of logistics assuming we now are dealing with potentially three different ammo's to support.
>>33676435
remember at the beginning of the thread we were talking about the indomnitable adherence to the concept. put that away for this discussion. im asking, if as a team support weapon, without access to conventional team support weapons like saw's, would it be better to have ammo commonality, with inherently more accurate platform or support the logistics of a third ammo type outside of rifle sidearm because it would make up for itself logistically with performance?

>>33676507
16" AR-10 derivative with a pencil barrel and a low power Acog?

Maybe throw in a fixed tube stock or something, for further weight reduction.

>>33676435
DMRs have always used Battle Rifles in .308 or equivalent calibers. They don't need ammunition commonality, they're only really expected to fire on targets beyond the range that everyone else can effectively concentrate Volume of Fire. Currently in the USM there's one DMR at the squad level and the US is considering adapting a new .308 rifle for use in the fireteam level.

>>33676524
Now, i've never seen combat and i've only read five or six books about urban combat.

So, take my opinion with a grain of 'meh'

But, If i was running 5 man fire teams and 15 man platoons, i'd probably just use normal hunting rifles for the fifth man. They're going to be much cheaper.

They'll be lighter than some traditional sniper rifles.

In terms of doctrine, I would probably train my bolt gun operators to occupy a role similar to SAW or heavy machine gun.

So, for suppression, we'd replace the high volume of automatic fire with accurate, aimed shots.

And we'd do it with 308. If we ever start wondering "why did our DM stop firing," the answer will probably have nothing to do with ammunition scarcity.

>>33676587
I have the same kind of thought with a Mossberg MVP, Bolt action with 30 round mags, accurate suppression form 300 yards out was the idea. Thought about getting one but they are not really quality rifles,

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>>33676369
>not using an unproven militarily scout rifle

>>33676587
think i can agree with you there. i really think the scout rifle concept works better on a militia or gunclub level.

>>33676587
>I would probably train my bolt gun operators to occupy a role similar to SAW or heavy machine gun.
>So, for suppression, we'd replace the high volume of automatic fire with accurate, aimed shots
My head is spinning at how retarded everything you just said is

>>33676695
The scout rifle works great for what cooper wanted: one man roaming the countryside, uncertain about what he'll find, but ready for whatever it is.

It's an elegant concept. Kill anything that moves, yet light and easy to carry. It's perfect for a man who doesn't shoot much but wants to hit what he aims at and destroy what he hits.

But, reality is complicated and the elegance quickly becomes diluted.

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>>33676719
lol clearly your the idiot who doesnt understand this very concept lead to the Dragunov and why warsaw platoon tactics call for it and even Earl american crica 1900's called for suppression with accurate aimed fire as opposed to massed automatic fire. also what do you think they did before the invention of automatic weapons.

TL;DR your head is spinning because you're actually stupid.

>>33676719
You'll understand one day.

or maybe you'll just stay this ignorant

>>33676737
so again in a team of five men without access to traditional autamatic team support weapons, the scout rifle fits the need for suppression. Can you understand im not trying to replace a SAW with a scout rifle im saying without access to a SAW a scout rifle is a good concept to fit the teams necessity.

>>33676752
>>33676774
Because the past 100 years of warfare haven't decisively shown that volume of fire is a deciding factor in infantry engagements or anything. Nosirree
Fuck off with your dragunov memes

>>33675638
Not using optical lenses, no. Perhaps when sci fi cameras of sufficient size, quality and power consumption are developed, then another 50 years on top of that to overcome the institutional inertia

>>33676791
I think you're trying too hard to justify your scout fetish.

However, can the scout rifle deliver a reasonable volume of powerful, aimed shots? Yup. So, yeah, I guess it might work fine.

But you gotta know, and i've read cooper's writings on the subject, the scout rifle is different from a precision precision rifle

If I remember right, he called for a 300m zero and about 7 cubic meters of kentucky windage. It's not exactly the most long shooting-est gun

>>33676827
chill, bro. You gotta keep context. The entire hypothetical is defined by an absence of automatic weapons. Why is that an interesting discussion?

Because it's relevant. If you and me and the other guy go to war tomorrow, we won't have ideal hardware to take with us. But, everybody has access to scoped rifles. And, they'll be the best tool for suppressing people -- especially if we're fighting untrained soldiers.

And, you're getting something wrong: you're presupposing a heavy reliance on small party movement and small arms tactics. For that, the high volumes of machine gun fire are ideal. But that's not exactly what modern war looks like.

If you review modern combat, you'll often see lots of low quality sniper work. Look at Aleppo and Sarajevo. It only takes a few jets and tanks to drive everyone to ground, but that's when the sniping begins. 450 meters is good enough.

>>33676889
>Because it's relevant.
Not in an America where most anyone can buy a semi-automatic intermediate caliber rifle and stack a retardedly large drum magazine on it, and rapidly fire that controllably.
No, it's not a SAW but it's a much more approachable reality than having 1 in 5 men be trained to accurately unleash fire from a .308/7.62 platform fast enough to effectively suppress.
People get too caught up in "muh habbeding" roleplay and forget to take a look at objective reality.

>>33676889
I think im looking at this scout rifle concept more as a baseline to work from and adapt on then adhering to the rules. id definately want that rifle to be good for more then 300m.

>>33672076
Lighter AR-308's exist now, can be accurized to the same amounts, weigh about the same, have less recoil, and far cheaper magazines. They also have advantages with optics (traditional scopes).

I don't mind fudd guns. >>33671738 looks pretty damn cool. Even so, an AR-10 matches it and can shoot a lot faster.

>>33676952
... and still get zipped by a guy you can't even see. Even if your meme mag doesn't jam

Never forget, suppression works by triggering an unconditioned response to a credible threat.

The other problem is cost/logistics. You're right that that AR with a drum will dish out heavy volumes of fire. But that only works in the first days of operating. After that, you better get comfy with your m-9.

But don't get me all wrong -- we've got a 5 man team. Give somebody a drum, because you're correct that it's useful.

>>33672076
>The concept was a lightweight, portable rifle

I noticed you left out the "bolt action" part. That's what makes it obsolete.

>>33671246
>.308
>bolt action
both of these are horribly outdated. a mk12 firing 77gr would shit on both of these while offering way more capability in a more cost effective and weight efficient setup.

>inb4 stopping power
it's a meme faggit. look at bullet drop for 77 tsmk compared to 308 winshitty. plus you get semi and 30rd mags.

>>33677219
77gr 5.56 terminal ballistics vs .308

tough choice...

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>>33677219
Okay, hold up.
I really don't know what you were trying to do here.
>Winchester
>Winshitty
Like, it's not even a pun. And it made me honestly doubt your intelligence. Now go back and think of something actually plays off the name.

>>33676774
Why not just have good machinegunners? Instead of your videogame tier balancing bullshit, why not use real ones? Ones that can single handedly lay waste to an entire fucking platoon of men in seconds. You're silly little bolt gun might kill or wound two men in the time it would take me to spot engage adjust windage and elevation and destroy over ten men who now are bleeding profusely at their multiple bullet wounds or are fucking dead, all while you pathetically worry if you're zeroed and are receiving returned fire.

>>33671427
Leatherwood

What is a scout rifle and why is it used? What benefits do they have? Why not use a 22 hunting rifle with a strap?

>>33678925
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_rifle

>>33671738
>scope is turned sideways

Literal retard

Why did Jeff Cooper push so many fudd memes?

>>33679094
>Not understanding the orthogonal reticle technique

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>>33679094
lol

>>33678976
Okay I have read it twice now and it still doesnt really explain why this is a benefit over literally anything else.

never understood why Americans like these bizarrely colored composite wood stocks.

>>33671246
do Ruger scout rifles come with a stripper clip guide or is it just single round loading?

>>33677328
>hitting targets vs not
touch choice
>>33677856
.308 WinsWW2soFuckEuropeanCalibers

>>33671991
It's only outdated if you don't live in a ban state, anon. Then it's god-tier.

>>33679296
>M1 Garand
>30-06
>Lee Enfield
>303 British
>Mosin Nagant
>7.62x54r
who was using 308 to win WW2?

>>33679330
you should have just said you know nothing about .308 Winchester's history. it would make you look less like the dumbass you are.

>>33671246

I don't understand why the "scout rifle" concept even exists. It seems like the answer to a question that nobody was asking.

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>>33671246
>Not killing Commies with Soviet weapons we appropriated when they died.
Killing your enemies with their own creations is top tier.

>>33679392
I was asking the question of "how do I put a scope on my Yugo 24/47 Mauser without permanent alterations to the bolt while also allowing continued use of stripper clips?" Then I found out that there are scout mounts for Mausers that require no permanent modifications to the firearm and obviously stay clear of the bolt and let me use muh strippy clippies

>>33679392
Thank you! Ive been posting in this thread trying to get clarification and it literally makes no sense.

I also have an m1a scout. Had a long debate about getting it or the full size m1a. Glad I went with the scout. I just use the iron sights though, and I have no problem.

>>33671246
Scout rifles are a meme from back in the day where you couldnt get a semi auto 308 without being heavy and wood.

Now you have AR10 options, SCARs and modernized classic BRs. The scout rifle is thus a dumb meme for fudds.

>>33671345
>not averaging ten dead commies per round

You are like a little baby.

>>33679741
teach me your ways

>>33679233
>never understood why Americans like these bizarrely colored composite wood stocks.

That is the natural color of wood in certain regions of the US, due to pollution/irradiation.

>>33671890
>tfw cooper was the original nutnfancy
>muh stahpin powah!
>muh sawc!
>muh ounces and pounds!

Both colonels. Both faggots.

>>33679870
>both play operator innadesert

It's true

>>33671246
But where does the bayonet go?

>>33679251
detachable magazines

>>33671590
>man who attemped to blow up judges said something edgy after they caught him

>>33676587
I don't think you understand what suppression is. The definition is literally high volume fire that puts enough lead in the general vicinity of the enemy to keep them from returning fire or changing positions. Putting accurate fire on a target is a different job entirely.

>>33671453
all collectivists must hang

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>>33676791

>so again in a team of five men without access to traditional autamatic team support weapons, the scout rifle fits the need for suppression.

>bolt-action rifle
>Useful for suppression

What is going on in this thread?

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>>33676646

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>Muh scout rifle

It's not 1916 grandpa - bolt guns are not an effective anti-personnel option.

>muh snipers

You're not a sniper.

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>>33671590
First person he reminded me of

>>33677008
>... and still get zipped by a guy you can't even see.
Different anon, but you're failing to differentiate between sniper teams and designated marksmen in a fireteam. In modern combat conditions desgnated marksmen rely on their squad's suppressing fire to protect them from return fire, and sniper teams rely on concealment. If the rest of your team is already engaging and suppresing the enemy it makes little sense to be relying on a light and low volume of fire weapon more suited to shoot-and-scoot/flanking tactics when you can just use a heavier semi-auto rifle from whatever position you are currently at.

And as far as logistics go, if you're that strapped for ammo you aren't running fire teams, you're using sniper teams as part of a larger strategy of guerrila tactics. If you need to save ammo so badly you're switching out machine guns for bolt actions then where is the rest of the fire team getting their ammo?

You are trying to answer problems that have been solved for decades. If you have no logistics or supply problems you use modern american infantry tactics. If you have moderate supply problems look at what Eastern Europe and Scandinavia have planned for in the event of a Russian invasion, and what larger independant groups (ISIS and their neighboring jihadis, the few succesful African warlords, etc.) have put into practice. If you have fuck all for logistics and supply, look at what the Taliban did for years as insurgents against US forces. In none of these examples is the "Scout Rifle" a thing, and your theoretical SHTF America isn't some magical place where the existing rules and trends of combat evaporate.

Because I don't have guns to prevent an anything-incursion onto my property, commie, nazi, zombie, or commie nazi zombie.

Being a poorfag fucking sucks.