>Vietnam's defense budget: $5 billion >USA's

>>33650930
>>USA even had Air Superiority
Depends on where

>>33650930

In some situations there's only so much you can do without resorting to genocide.

>>33650930
Most vietkangz spent their time scattered and hiding in death-trap tunnels, you'd only win by nuking the country.

By that point the commie freak-out died down anyways.

>what is gurellia warfare and zero public support???

>>33650930

>Germany failed to defend against the USSR and US
>Afghanistan defended against both without even trying

Didn't you just get banned from /pol/ for shitposting this?

>>33650930
>USSR's defense budget: can't even be counted

>>33650930

Your simplistic view of the Vietnam war is from the pov of an uneducated troll. You opinion is worth almost zero, only enough to rile up a few idiots on /k/. Refocus your time on something constructive, like buying your next weapon like a real /k/ommando.

>>33651026
real /k/ users are noguns

>>33650930
You do realize France lost against Vietnam too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War

the only thing the US lost was public support back home

>>33651064
Saddest part is that it took 10 posts for anyone to say this...

>>33650930
pretty sure the frogs lost nam harder than we did

>>33650930
Baguette
>loat in ww2
>lost in Algeria(so such so that FFL were disbanded because of it)
>lost in vietnam
>now ran by bunch of numales and feminists

1/10 made me reply

>>33650930
>see OP's pic
Hum anon, while being a frog myself, and even if technically the french did colonize indochina first, which means some kind of victory, France ALSO lost against vietnamese peasants before the US went in.

So... Yeah. No.

>>33651175
>USA

>Lost in Vietnam
>Lost in Iraq twice
>Lost in Afghanistan
>Lost in Somalia

lol

>>33651089
nah, it was the same

>north vietnam see they are loosing
>throw fuck tons of soldier to the ennemy
>either everyone dies or it's a phyrrus victory

>>33651202
>Pyrrhic

dang it

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>Lmao you """lost""" a war that had no win condition!

>>33651213
the win condition were
>block communism from spreading in south east asia
>try to make vietnam ally to the US

one condition was accomplished, the other one failed, the only reason why the US lost was because of those fucking hippies and the moral of soldiers getting low, otherwise US forces were stomping the shit out of VC

>>33651186
>being wrong four times in a row
>yuropoor education

>>33651233
So youre implying US won all of those wars?

>Amerilard education

>>33650930
yeah but thats just defense budget. what about attack budget

>>33651224
This is a point worth making. The left hates Nixon, but his rapprochement with China was one of the great strokes of diplomatic genius in a century that was full of horrendous wars caused by failures of diplomacy. With it, Nixon neutralized the "domino theory" - he kept a loss in Indochina contained, blunted the spread of communism, and made sure that losing Vietnam was merely an embarrassment instead of an utter geostrategic disaster. It was an incredible example of how important diplomacy is in strategic decision-making. The Baby Boomer hate-boner for him has always been unjustified, but what the hell else do you expect from Boomers?

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>>33651256
>using one of your ennemies to avoid a complete failure

a good move i guess, but this is what probably impacted Nixon popularity

10/10 post anon

>>33651064
>French
You mean ex-Nazis and colonials fighting for the French?

Why do Americans brag about the battle of Leyte Gulf when a cursory check of wiki reveals they had an overwhelming advantage of 200 ships and over 1000 aircraft?

>1 fleet carrier vs 8 larger fleet carrier

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>>33650939

At least on the Island.

>>33650930
In Nam we lost because we had the President and Congress making up rules and playing political games, just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Rather than send Soldiers to win, they sent them to skirmish.
>no bombing of North munitions till after they had years to hide stock piles in the jungle
>ground forces not permitted to cross into the north
>no bombing or ground forces in surrounding countries
>patrol from bases, never establish a line
>do nothing to stop incomng weapons from reaching the north
>issue a new untested rifle with no instructions and tell troops it doesnt need cleaning or oil
Nam was about showing the world we wont back down from the commies. We were never meant to actually win. Iraq and Afghanistan are the same....till now.

>>33650930
The Murrikans were pretty solidly stomping their colons until public support completely died and politics forced them to go home.

At which point the Vietnamese were left to fend against the Vietcong by themselves and just got fuuucked.

Really, just about nothing about that entire ordeal was nice. I'm hoping we'll never see a war like it again.

Well, the M16A1 is an extremely nice rifle, I'll say that.
>inb4 aktards
>inb4 pistonfags
>inb4 battleriflecucks

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That's when they started fake news and you still believed it

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>>33651349
>>issue a new untested rifle with no instructions and tell troops it doesnt need cleaning or oil

The M16 wasn't perfect from the get-go, but it was pretty well tested and solid from the start.
It's mostly Army Ordnance faggotry and McNamara faggotry that made for problems (muh cost!)

Sure, they told GI's "it cleans itself", which is bullshit, but that's really like the furthest problem it had, the M16 and basically any AR can handle pretty obscene amounts of carbon building, since the worst of it goes inside the bolt-carrier (which is meant to take that abuse, basically acting as it's own piston).

What really fucked the pre-A1 M16s in Army service was that magazines were designed as disposable (like stripperclips), but there was no choice besides reusing them, because it was either that or no magazines at all. No surprise, they acted up pretty fast.
The other is the ammo, the issued spec was pretty much wrong for the rifle, cycling the gun at like 200rpm too fast, this ammo was cheaper, and Army Ordnance liked the increased rate of fire, but what it did was to vastly increase the wear on the rifle, as well as cause timing problems, hammerfollow, the bolt outrunning the (already shitty) magazine and picking up nothing.

The magazine issue was fixed by just introducing properly reusable magazines into supply lines (and later the improved 30 round magazines which fed even better), and the timing issues were fixed by making the recoil buffer heavier in the A1 rifle. The A1 also had a chromed bore and chamber to help extraction (which supposedly could be bothersome if a round was left chambered for too long in the moist jungle heat), on top of making it easy to clean. I'm thinking it might help against bore erosion too.
A cleaning kit was included in a compartment in the buttstock, with instructions, and while this wasn't the biggest concern, it was absolutely something that should have been addressed and was.

For most of the war, the M16A1 was in use.

>>33650930
At least when they gave up it wasnt on their own soil

Hey op, how about you add USSR and China defense budgets in there as well?

>>33651627
Excellent post, this guy knows his shit.

>>33650930
HAHAHAHAHA, US got tired of guerillas after years and pulled out, you got your ass handed to you in a few fucking days by an equal size army.

I don't think you got much to be laughing about.

>>33651627
>For most of the war, the M16A1 was in use.
True, but AKs were still much better in every aspect except accuracy which matters little if you can't see in the jungle.

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>>33651814
The AK had an extra 10 years or so to mature.

>better in every aspect
look at pic

>>33650930
Friendly remind the USA won almost every single engagement with NVA and Vietcong and that we only lost the war at home and all the ground we lost was due to putting the south in charge of it as we left the country.

>>33651814
>but AKs were still much better in every aspect
>shorter range
>heavier gun
>heavier magazines
>heavier ammo
>more exposed action
>stock and action aren't nearly as inline, so more recoil by far

>>33651878
ive humped gear

ill take the muddy one that fires

not too concerned about recoil or range, or >>33651837 terminal ballistics

>>33651935
Are you meming me right now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU

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>>33651935
>ill take the muddy one that fires
This is bait right?
No one can really still be this stupid

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>>33651964
Oh boy here we go.
>Autistic rigged test.
>vs.
>Tests done by armies, after action reports and hundreds of testimonials.

>>33652019
>rigged test
Rigged how? Watch those videos and please tell me how they are biased.

>posts the HK advertisement video
Yeah ok mang.

>>33651964
Those tests mean nothing.
Source: Ian and Karl.

>>33651856
Do Americans actually believe this?

>>33652032
Am i getting baited or what.

Those tests perfectly demonstrate how well the AR-15 action is sealed compared to the AK action.

>>33650970
>>Afghanistan defended against both without even trying

Nigger, you know the history on this and why they were able to.

>US arms afghanis to stop muh commies
>yeeeaaah boy
>Russians say fuck it over some stupid sand
>Afghanistan goes all ape shit towards US
>ctrl+c ctrl+v

>>33652040
How does it perfectly do that when they have a sample size of 1? At best it proves the particular rifles they tested perform a certain way. Their results aren't significant and you're a retard for trying to imply they are.

>>33651256
Nixon was extremely popular until Watergate happened.

Was Watergate overblown and not actually that bad? Probably, but it still would have set a bad precedent if it went unpunished and impeachment is pretty much the only thing that Congress can do to the President in that line.

>>33650930
>what is the Paris Peace Accords?
The USAF raped the russian defended Hanoi so hard that that the treasonous commies where forced to sign a pea e treaty.
The peace only for a short time until the commies broke the peace and the traitor liberals that held the congress at the time removed all funding from the resupply program in place to support the free Vietnam.

>>33650930
France also lost against the Vietnamese

>>33652053
>hurr durr sample size of one
You can literally see with your own eyes in the videos how the guns worked or didn't work and why.

The reasons were so clean cut that that they could easily be generalized across all AR's and AK's that share the same features as the ones shown in the video.

>>33650930
France also lost against them so I never understood these shitposts

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>>33652029

Just raise your m4 out of water and shoot then.

>>33652032
They mean at least one thing for certain, the M16 handles mud just fine, better than most rifles, so if you want to use the gun that handles mud the best, the M16 is one of them.

If anything though, mud isn't a serious concern, you'll never get that much mud on your gun in any realistic scenario, so it's not worth considering.

>>33652036
Because it's fucking true? The Americans were never really at a disadvantage or being beaten militarily, it wasn't a flawless operation for them but by far they beat the Vietcong in logistics, tactics and military might.

>>33652218
If you give the gun literally one shake and one second for the water to clear out of the bcg it will work fine.

>>33652218
Oh shit, that one thing that pretty much nobody will have consider ever and the very, VERY few people who do can solve by letting the gun drain for half a second!

THE RIFLE IS JUST FUCKED NOW!

>>33652218

Glocknades are a thing of the past. All praise m4nades.

>>33652218
>a thing nobody will ever do with any gun ever

>>33652255

Like pouring mud in the action of your rifle? BOO-HOO.

>>33652263
>mud doesn't exist in the real world

>>33652265
>Rivers don't exist in real world
>Pudles neither

Cry me a river then, and proceed to do the test.

>>33652276
>a soldier will store his rifle under water right up until the moment that he will shoot with the rifle.

>>33651064
Came here to say this desu

At least we actually shot at our enemy.

>>33652088

Vietnam still won. You can cry how much you want that it wasn`t a fair fight, but Vietnam still won

>>33652263
You mean that thing that doesn't happen to anyone either?

>>33652309
France had a tougher time than the US. There's a story about how the workers at an explosives factory had made the grenades dummies and having a message in saying "the women of France support the Vietnam"

>>33652276
>implying literally anyone but a very select few operators in niche special forces roles will ever fucking do assaults from a body of water with any rifle

>>33652316
>Vietnam won
Nah Vietnam didn't win, communism won which is really unfortunate and thanks to that Vietnam is now enjoying dat 2000 gpd per capita.

>>33652350
Doesn't Vietnam like the US

>>33652316
Uh, you know Vietnam begged the US for help in combating a communist uprising and guerilla army? Vietnam sure as fuck lost, in one way they stopped being Vietnam and became whatever People's Democratic Republic it is now, and for another, Communism is always a loss.

>>33652293
>proceeds in a line of argumentation that can be aplied against what you defends

Kek, you amerifags must stop storing your aks in a puddle of mud then.

>>33652363
Ofc they do now that they aren't under the communist plague anymore.

>>33652368
An AK doesn't have to be stored in a puddle of mud for it to stop working, all that has to happen is for some mud to get into the gaping hole in the side of the gun.

>>33650955
Either that or deploying chemical weapons in the tunnel, which would probably end up poisoning the water supply.
Technology has improved since then, though; I wonder if we'd be more able to detect them now.

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>>33652364

>>33652372
Ho Chi Minh loved the us

>>33652218
but it wasn't a water test, it was a mud test and you said "I'd rather take the muddy one that fires"

>>33652382

>all that has to happen is for some mud

InRange tv doesn't think like that so they pour more than "some" just to be sure.

But even then: AK don't cycle? Manually cycle the action yourself and proceed to do another shoot.

Now in m4's case: the rifle doesn't funcion anymore, at the risk of hurting the operator and doing the enemy's job for him.

FAILURES: some are less catastrophic than others.

>>33650930
France got fucked militarily by a uniformed regular armed force. U.S. got fucked politically from within while figjting an insurgent war. Apples to oranges. Anyone who doesn't know this doesn't understand the Vietnam war.

The U.S. had a 10:1 Kill to death ratio in Vietnam. Had they held on to territory instead of going into an area, laying waste to everything in black pajamas, and leaving, then the North Vietnamese would have had a harder time. On top of that the U.S. lost its will to continue the war. It didn't really lose so much as it said "you know what? This was dumb, nobody likes it, let's leave."

Also bear in mind that the reason for the U.S. going into Vietnam goes back to Ho Chi Minh beating France in the First Indochina War.

>>33652480
You are structuring your statements like it is a common occurrence that a soldier fires his gun just after it has been completely submerged in water. Getting mud on your gun instead is quite the common thing on a muddy battlefield.

>>33651285
I'm pretty certain Christian de Castries would take offence at the ex-nazi comment. Guy fought against the Germans all through the war before he got transferred to Vietnam and was the commander at Dien Bien Phu.
The majority of those forces were French soldiers and they still lost.

>>33651935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU

>>33652348
Hell in Vietnam there was a variant of the M16A1 that was specially modified to drain quickly and be effective firing immediately upon leaving the water. It consisted of a dry film lubricant, and a drain hole drilled into the buffer tube and buttstock.

Some of that even got applied to the modified suppressed rifles that saw occasional use.

>>33652342
Excuses are like rice patties, every chink has one.

No use delving on either losses, both Dien Bien Phu and the later american campaign were embarassing, showing how westerners lacked the guts for war.

While the commies forced their fellowmen to push cannons to mountain and hillside by fucking hands, westerners were busy trying to please civilians and journalists.

>>33652620
I think we're all ignoring the fact that the average US grunt and even SEAL was not constantly emerging from water and firing at the enemy and the M16 is still better at dealing with mud if you at least make sure you don't walk around with an open bolt

>>33652575
>Getting mud on your gun instead is quite the common thing on a muddy battlefield.
Eh, not really, trench warfare isn't really a thing these days, it's not that common for any soldier these days to get a bunch of mud on/in their gun, and certainly not to the degrees that Karl and Ian use to demonstrate (which they basically admit).

Those tests are really only conceived of to disprove the notion that the AR is super sensitive and unreliable (and that the AK is flawless and unstoppable), and I just think it just spiraled out of control because people demanded mudtests of other guns.

>>33652656
>I think we're all ignoring the fact that the average US grunt and even SEAL was not constantly emerging from water and firing at the enemy

This, it's a really rare thing for people to do in special forces, a minority force in any military.

Which is why I say it doesn't matter because nobody is going to be doing that regardless of if their rifle can do it while full of water or if it needs to drain briefly.
Arguing that it makes an AR dangerous and unreliable is dangerously close to arguing "but what if you got a squib!"

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>>33652575
>You are structuring your statements like it is a common occurrence that a soldier fires his gun just after it has been completely submerged in water.

And it is. In a scenario where the soldier is receiving enemy fire the natural behavior is to respond as soon as he can. Have him slipped from the edge of a river into the water or not.

>Getting mud on your gun instead is quite the common thing on a muddy battlefield.

But pouring mud in the action is not. I think you are structuring your statements like it is a commom occurence that unusual things only happens when someone is carrying and a rifle that you don't like.

The real problem with M16 is that it's fucking long compared to AK, AK was much shorter, more compact, and comes with a banana instead of just 20 rounds.

In a jungle, or hell, anywhere else not a desert, an AK is better.

>>33652745
>And it is.
Except it's not.

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>>33652752
They made 30 round mags for the M16.

There was also carbine variants during Vietnam.

>>33652758
That come way later.

The CAR15 was also not issued widely.

Basic bitch troops likely got the M16 or the M16A1.

ARVN got shit out of luck since M14 and M16 are too fucking long for asian hands.

>>33652767
The GAU5 was used in Vietnam, as well as the XM177E2.

And true, it wasn't widely issued, but I think the logic was that it wasn't necessary for the average grunt.

>>33651627
If you need to justify the M16 this hard, then its pretty clear it was a piece of shit.
>no no, it could take abuse! (nevermind all the complaints of constant jamming in a jungle environment)
>no no, its just that the first bunch of magazines, not the gun!
>they had basically fixed it by the end of the war though!

>>33652797
Well, that's where the brass got wrong.

The average grunt does not benefit from having a long ass weapon in a jungle.

>>33652807
M16A1 was pretty reliable, length aside.

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>>33650930
>Vietnam's defense budget: $5 billion >USA's defense budget: $580.3 billion
I'm bored enough to respond.
America reached it's objectives just fine.
Fiesr of all we didn't want to turn Vietnam into the America 2.0. We wanted to bankrupt China and Russia by attrition supplying the commie north and we did a fine job of hat.
We kept China put of global politics for another 30 fucking years and they still wouldn't be a nuclear power if it wasn't for those fucking clintons giving them out W88 technology and guidiance systems.
If you fail to understand how that conflict helped destroy the Iron Curtain you are as dumb as a rock, but you spent half your life playing CoD and eating cheetos so we don't expect much from kids like you to begin with.

The simple truth is American military... the men who do the fighting have never lost a war, the asshole leadership and their political asperations fuck everything up.

Here is a little mental supersize for you. Imagine is instead of letting the commies take Berlin we stopped feeding their military and let Paton run through what was left of them like a hot knife through butter... you want to blame that massive fuck up on the fighting men as well?

>>33652753
> let me wait til my rifle is dry to respond fire

HA Ha hA HA

>>33651064
Came here to say this

>>33650930
France also lost against the Vietnamese.

>>33651186
Lost in First Gulf War?
Lost in a UN operation?

>>33652807
The M16 had some issues and was issued with bad ammo and bad magazines (something that would make any gun ever shit up).

The M16A1 had numerous improvements, one which was to make it compatible with the previously out of spec ammo.

The M16A1 is objectively good.

>>33652829
>let me wait until it's dry
Again, pretty much nobody ever will find themselves with a gun full of water in a firefight, and it's really not difficult or significantly time consuming to remedy if you end up doing so.

>>33652810
Yes and no, the 5.56mm isn't perhaps amazing from a short barrel like that.

But there was also some issues with the CAR15 line as I recall, I think a bunch of wear and extraction problems.

>>33651837
Look at the weight, faggot. 5.56 is superior because you will be able to carry more and lay down a greater amount of suppressive fire.

>>33652630
So you're telling me it's still the soldiers fault for having equipment he had no idea about being sabotaged
https://youtu.be/cTAcS8E2FWM

>>33652559
More like US got fucked militarily, engaging in a war in which it was eminently incapable of attaining any of its strategic objectives through military force.

>muh k/d

Kill/death ratio never decided a war.

>Had they held on to territory instead of going into an area, laying waste to everything in black pajamas, and leaving, then the North Vietnamese would have had a harder time.

Actually, the North Vietnamese would have had an exeedingly easy time picking off the massively overstretched US forces piecemeal in that case.

> It didn't really lose so much as it said "you know what? This was dumb, nobody likes it, let's leave."

More like "this was dumb, our army is fucking falling apart from it and there's no win to actually win this, let's GTFO before it all blows up into our faces even worse".

>>33652822
>America reached it's objectives just fine.

Ahahahaha, the denial is real.

>Fiesr of all we didn't want to turn Vietnam into the America 2.0. We wanted to bankrupt China and Russia by attrition supplying the commie north and we did a fine job of hat.

Except the Chinese and Russians spent a rounding error of their military budgets on Vietnam while the US spent so much it fucked up its own military budget for a decade and ruined its own army in the process.

>We kept China put of global politics for another 30 fucking years and they still wouldn't be a nuclear power if it wasn't for those fucking clintons giving them out W88 technology and guidiance systems.

Except China was a nculear power before the Vietnam War even began, you gigantic retard. And was already active in global politics. Hell, Nixon making nice with them was something he achieved DESPITE the Vietnam War, not because of it. Nice tinfoil-hat bullshit, though. That's not what the Cox Report actually says outside of your delusions.

>The simple truth is American military... the men who do the fighting have never lost a war,

The simple truth is that the american military lost quite a few wars, including Vietnam. And that truth will not change no matter how much butthurt idiots like you try to deny it.

Here's a bit of actual, factual reality for you: The commies would have reached Berlin first anyway - all Lend-Lease did was speed up the process. And the 1945 Red Army would have curbstomped Patton and the rest of allied forces in Europe and overrun the entire continent in short order if the Allies had been retarded enough to actually do it. Fortunately, the actual allied military planners weren't ignorant dumbasses like you and actually made made an effort to take a look at what was sitting across the Elbe from them unlike you delusional fuckwit - and evne though they still massively UNDERESTIMATED the Soiets, they came to the conclusion that messing with that would end in disaster.

>>33652064
>but it still would have set a bad precedent if it went unpunished
It doesn't seem to have mattered, desu

>>33652807
Man, you must hate the AK because it was a pile of shit for the first 5 or so years it was issued as well.

>>33652698
>mud is only in prepared defensive position like trenches
We're in a thread about Vietnam man, if those mud tests were ever relevant it's in a comparison between the AKM and M16A1 in that war.

>>33653585
>Kill/death ratio never decided a war.
Sure it has, look at Carthage, the Romans leveled that shit to the ground and salted the earth, taking whatever survivors were left as slaves.

That was a war of attrition.

>>33653398
Yes

Well yeah America lost! The M16 jammed if you blew on it too hard and a drop of water would rust the whole thing! Can't fight with a broken gun.

The AK was so strong in Vietnam! I could hit it with a bomb, agent orange, shove it in a tiger and it'll still work! Don't forget the numerous reports from vets! Delta Vets and SEALS vets saying they found the body of like a decaying corpse on top of an AK. It still had rounds in the magazine and it still worked when they fired it!

>>33652029
I mean, he's not wrong. The early manuals advised that you drain the chamber of water before firing in page 25. This is because the water would cause an increase in pressure due to all the gasses being blown back to the bolt carrier.
Check the video out by starting at 0:57. You'll notice that the rifle won't blow up because first of all, the chamber is dried, secondly, it is sealed by being in battery. However, the chamber is now filled with water after it cycled the action. Jump to 1:47. The rifle explodes due to the increase of chamber pressure. There has already been several accounts from personal experiences of users who have shot their ARs underwater

Witness and User accounts
>http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/217510_Can_you_fire_an_AR15_underwater__.html

Video
https://youtu.be/n8MCiixMZGY

Issued Field Manual
http://www.firearmstalk.com/The-M16-Cartoon-Field-Manual.html

>>33653585
please explain how the US was unable to achieve its strategic objectives through military force. Cite military reasons, not political ones or reasons that were affected by political restraint, please.

>>33650930
Keep in mind that the US Airforce in Vietnam was horribly designed for the job they were supposed to do, and their air losses were enormous.

>>33652064
>fast forward to 2016
>liberals litterally riot over not getting a president who made watergate look like preschooler homework
>whole country told if you have money and influence you can break whatever laws you want

>>33652720
To be fair even the rifle specifically built for this purpose (Navy Mk.4 Mod 0) was built in incredibly small numbers and almost always with a permanently mounted HEL M4A suppressor. Those rifles weren't even used much and got recycled back into other rifles in the 1980's.

>>33654296
This is very true, our airforce was largely geared towards fighting the Soviet airforce at high altitude and high speed and a lot of our aircraft were built for that role. It isn't a surprise the Thunderchief and Voodoo didn't exactly work out as low altitude bombers and shit like the Skyraider did as well as it did.

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>>33652276
>proving your a civfag
>implying any soldier wouldn't cross a body of water with their rifle well away from it.
>implying you don't crawl through mud

>>33652745
t. Anon who's never served in the military and has no idea what he's talking about

>>33652480
>But even then: AK don't cycle? Manually cycle the action yourself and proceed to do another shoot
You do know you can manually cycle AR's too right? They can be mortared if they the bcg is stuck just like how you can stomp open an ak. You don't have to send your rifle into the manufacturer to get it cocked you know.

>>33650948
Pretty much this. If the enemy has a will to fight no matter what then it becomes a case of killing every enemy. The various Middle eastern insurgencies are an example of this. Even though their governments are defeated they still pick up arms and fight. Kind of nietzschean when you think about it.

>>33653731
>Except the Chinese and Russians spent a rounding error of their military budgets on Vietnam while the US spent
Do you have any idea how much UN EXPENDABLE income the Chinese spent on SAM's , ammo , ordinence and food for the Viercong?
This was two and a half decades before Chine had a decent GDP friendo...every dollar hurt them.

>>33653585
>More like "this was dumb, our army is fucking falling apart from it and there's no win to actually win this, let's GTFO before it all blows up into our faces even worse".
No, not at all. It was yet another instance where the commie infiltrators in the US government fucked the country by not fighting a fucking war the way wars need to be fought. Wen you go to war you kill the enemy, you kill any and all civillians near munition production facitlities and you kill every fucking man wom,en and child in direct vicinity of the forces you are fighting.
Our MOSTLY SOCIALIST MEDIA stops us from winning wars, not out troops and not our eqiuiptment.... the fucking socialists who run out national propaganda machines we call cable news, news papers and even out teachers. If we should recind President Regans commie deregulation of our media dn kill the National Educators Association and all it finger puppet teacher unions we would be what we should have been. The single most powerful nation on earth with NO ONE a close second.

Paton was right, we should have leveled Russia not pretended we were ever allies.

>>33654826
>No, not at all. It was yet another instance where the commie infiltrators in the US government fucked the country by not fighting a fucking war the way wars need to be fought.
Or maybe the American people felt that what it was doing felt like the kind of evil imperialist practices that you'd see Russia and China engage in on their own. Some just hated the war because it was ugly.

There exist middle grounds and gray areas you know. I'm sure there was active attempts by the Communists to infiltrate and undermine, some which was even found, but I promise you that were plenty of non-socialists who felt the Vietnam war was a bad thing for the US.

>>33652745
Yet you basically never ever hear about it happening to anyone in any military or in the civilian life.

>>33651296
Because we blew them the fuck out.

>>33652236
We had our hands tied. Without invading cambodia we never had a chance

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>kill 20-50 troops for every 1 of yours
>people still say you "lost" because you decided to leave

>>33650930
France lost against both. Plz into history book.

>>33650930

42 years ago

Today the USA is the worlds sole military superpower. Vietnam is a corrupt impoverished communist shithole.

Who won?

>>33651175
>Baguette
Was fighting in France while the Brit was drinking tea back on their island.
Napoleon
Was a big fucking reason why America is a nation to begin with.

You can fuck off retard. France has done more in history than America. The only people that are allowed to talk about French competence are Germans and Brits. Maybe Russians.

>>33652350
>>33652363
>>33652372
>>33652417
Daily reminder that Ho Chi Minh wanted independence only, not a communist state. You can only blame China and the Soviet Union

>>33657697
He gave up on that shit after the French screwed him at the bargaining table.

As always, all bad things in history can be traced directly to French people.

>14% of vietnam died
>14% of the entire country's population.
>"THE US LOST YOU FUCKING BURGER XD"

>>33657738
Well I guess we have to do things ourselves now: a popular support for democracy, no coup.

At least they gave us food like baguettes (banh mi today in Vietnam) and Pot-au-feu (evolved into Pho)

The French lost against the Vietnamese too brah

>Direct U.S. military involvement ended on 15 August 1973.[62] The capture of Saigon by the North Vietnamese Army in April 1975 marked the end of the war

*yawn*

>>33651627
ughhh I should have replied earlier but I was working.
The original M-16 was a steaming pile of shit, for every reason you just mentioned. I LOVE my AR and the M-4 I carry. But handing a draftee a rifle and tellibg him he doesnt have to clean it is just fucked up. It also goes a long way to show how fucked up the war was and how the US was not supposed to win it. With the total lack of support for the weapon (supply ofdisposable mags, cleaning ect) its clear it was meant as sabatoge especially considering it replaced the M-14 that surpassed it in every way apart from weight. The M-14 could also serve in a fire support role on FA with a proto-high cap mag (check YT for the vid on the rifle)

>>33652236
http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

Fuck I hate the Vietnam war for scrambling my grandads brains beyond repair, but even I have to admit the U.S. did a fine fucking job for a bunch of criminals and drunks. They fuck the shit out of lady communism and knew exactly when to pull out before they were forced to nuclear cream pie in her and 9 months later birth ww3.

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>>33657738
>As always, all bad things in history can be traced directly to French people.
But they helped the US gain independence

>>33658333
>defends frogs
>posts what appears to be SAS crumpet
I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, but continue posting vintage operators

>>33651296
Leyte wasn't just a curbstomp like the one in Surigao, it also was comprised of other battles like the on off Samar. Samar was marked by Halsey leaving the sector to chase carriers, leaving only the lightly-armed and armored escort carriers and their destroyers to fend off Kurita's massive fucking fleet of carriers and battleships. And they actually did it.

>>33658594
*cruisers and battleships, excuse me.
Anyway, the bravery and tenacity of tiny American destroyer escorts launching attacks against cruisers should be respected.

>>33651186
Must either be a butthurt pooinloo or an angry eurostan resident

>>33658565
That's fucking GIGN you complete and utter knobhead, look at his unit patch on his shoulder

>>33650930
france lost against them first

>>33650930
the u.s. was beginning its war for profit phase

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>>33658565
That is gign

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>>33651296
Because Taffy-3 Was massively outgunned and outnumbered yet still fended off the absolute best the Japanese had to offer. Just because the United States had the advantage through the operation doesn't mean they had it at every point.

>Yamato not too tough after getting smacked by destroyers and escort carriers.

>>33658565
Can you not see

>>33658972
>gas mask with tinted lenses AND visor, also with tint
>because we really hate seeing things

>>33651242
He's implying you don't understand what defines a loss.

>>33659024
>escort carriers
yeah that airplane thing is kind of op

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>>33650930

Interesting so you think Vietnam was a winnable conflict?

Please explain to me how you'd win a war that where you aren't allowed to invade the country you're at war with for fear of setting off a larger conflict and said country is willing to take casualties at a rate of 10 men for every one solider you lose for well over a decade until eventually your people get sick of the futility of it all and demand your politicians end the war.

Without invading North Vietnam please explain to me how you would have won under these circumstances, this should be very interesting.

>>33650948
This. As dan Carlin says, "the roman empire creates a wasteland, and calls it peace"

The American public was unwilling to do what needed to be done to actually win.

>>33652064
Watergate happened because Nixon was about to pull support from Israel/the CIA, which made a lot of (((people))) in the intelligence agencies mad. The CIA couldn't just kill him like they did Kennedy, so they set him up.

>>33658972
>that tiny scope

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FUCK YEAH FAILED PEDO’S DEMONIC LED MICRO or mini FASCISTS STATES begins in fake failed JEW/SA led fucks too and SOON FAKE FAILED COMMIES led terrorisms org too TIP OF THE ICE BERG AND DOMINOES effects begins fucks yeah. FROM OCCUPIED ARCTIC, DAKOTA, GAY failed states, fake liberties, N VS S again too , fake failed Florida etc and many more FUCK YEAH. and LOVE IT BABY JUSTICE AND KARMA fucking rules and more failed micro aka small gov led terrorists org too fuck yeah.

fake failed pedo’s demonic JEW/SA led terrorists org was never ever united to begin with either so funny for eg past and present too civil’s wars, N VS S and many more too so funny. euro on euro led killings as usual so funny.

>>33663348
Jesus
sometimes I think modern medicine doomed us all

>>33663348
delet this

>>33651175
>FFL Disbanded
That's false though

>>33660948
[citation needed]
>inb4 google it/look it up

>>33657080
>Vietnam is a corrupt impoverished communist shithole.
well given that you were supposed to protect south vietnam, you royally lost

>>33660850
Tactitus

>>33658093
It wasn't sabotage you moron. The US military thought they could save some money by substituting the powder used for early lots of 5.56mm and it caused massive issues because it increased cyclic rate and wear immensely. Bean Counters fucked over the early M16 deployment with that and not issuing enough cleaning kits, the whole 'never clean' deal arose from piss poor training among rank and file grunts. You never hear about the troops given XM16's in Project Agile having issues because they had proper ammunition and training. It took all of a year or so before the ammunition issue was fixed and the M16A1 saw service and suddenly 90% of those issues disappeared.

As for the M14 it was having issues at that point due to fun things like the stocks swelling in humid conditions and binding the guns up or throwing accuracy into the toilet, a rather useless full auto for most troops and general high rejection rates for the rifles in production due to low QC among some manufacturers.

>>33650930
We won the war militarily, but we lost it politically.

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>>33657262
Mad your pathetic little country hasn't been relevant for over 100 years?

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Americans are an inferior group of people compared to Asians therefore they will surely be wiped off from the face of the earth by China

>>33653731

Semi off topic but you should check out the Red Gambit series. Operation Unthinkable in full affect.

>>33654774

Chinese economic output was in the shitter for other more important reasons, it had nothing to do with Vietnam.

>>33650948
yup. Islamic extremists will be with us forever until the world has had enough and eradicates Islam for good. when +60% of all Muslims support ISIS and Sharia you know its already past the point of no return and the only option is cleansing through another crusade.

>implying that entire defense budget was spent on Vietnam and not spread across multiple continents.

Then sure.

>>33650930
When will you guys realize that the war only went to the commies after the US withdrew?

The US was winning handedly but we pulled out and failed to support South Vietnam because of our political problems at home.

>>33652316
Yeah but their military had nothing to do with it. That's like saying Pakistanis "beat" the british army after they signed a treaty with the Indians and left and the Pakistanis broke the treaty.

>>33666259
>their military had nothing to do with it
>NVA fought battles on their terms and met their objectives
>US military had no coherent objective to begin with
>paris accords allowed the NVA to stay in conquered territory

whewlad

>>33666332
Correct, their military failure had nothing to do with their political victory.

>>33666645

confirm vietnam revisionists are illiterate

If the US had been invaded by the Vietnamese then that would be an apt comparison.