>Average FAL shoots 3MOA I love the FAL but why the fuck

Because it doesn't matter where you hit someone, you only have to hit them once with REAL FUCKIN' NATO

>>33581525
Better than an SKS.

>>33581543
>3MOA
>300yd thats a 9 inch spread

pretty good chance of missing if you are off of your mark by a small margin.

File: C9E7F802-462D-4F46-BA2B-9E1C02552CC0-32498-00000A3F3A86202C.png (341KB, 450x450px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 450x450px

>>33581543
Amen

>>33581559
Who the fuck even tries to compare a SKS to a FAL?

>>33581611
We can't get FAL in Canada but can get SKS.

>>33581630
Why? Detachable mag?

>>33581653
No banned by name, Norinco M14s are legal.

>>33581525
>I love the FAL but why the fuck is it so inaccurate.

Old milsurp weapon kits with low quality receivers made by some random company that imported those kits or alternatively just old and worn guns.

>>33581525
Barrel and lockup harmonics.

It could (theoretically) be updates with better accuracy fairly easily, but nobody wants to bother, and DSA is the only person even making new FALs.
A matter of free floating the barrel and gas system (after reducing the gas systems ridgidity and weight to more along the lines of Ann SVD system than the original giant tube) and working out a better and more consistent locking mechanism.

Maybe they'll offer something along those lines one day.
But for now, no.

>>33581525
That's entirely average for a service rifle.

The M16 is only held to a 5 MOA standard.

>>33581803
Well how are the new ones being made by DSA?

>>33581525
G3>FAL

FAL /k/ucks can't deny this fact.

>>33581569
Average torso is a minimum of 18 inches wide

>>33581835

cool but the m16 isn't 4 feet long and 10 pounds.

File: Fountain-Splits.jpg (2MB, 5822x3887px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 5822x3887px

>>33581525
You mean rifles built on G1 parts kits that were abused by turks first?

Thats because you let turks look after your shit before you used it, what did you think was going to happen?

>>33581820
They do, it just costs a metric fuckton

See the gun they built for SASS

>>33581870
>fire up the trucks
>gonna be a long haul on these goalposts

>>33581886
Imbel and L1A1 kits are at the 3MOA average, a GOOD STG58 may be 2MOA most turk G1 kits are closer to like 5MOA

>>33581820
A super rigid handguard is actually more accurate. Ask Ed Vandenberg

>>33581543
fpbp

>>33581926
And 15 year old DSAs are 1.5

>>33581946
bullshit

>>33581971
The badger ordnance barrels were pretty good.

>>33581936
Maybe so, but FALs are already heavy.
Anything making it more ridged without compensating by ridiculously complicating the machining process to reduce weight elsewhere is going to make it absurdly heavy.
>>33581900
I've seen a few accurised FALs.
They're both expensive as hell and heavy.

I mean redesigning certain parts to make it more accurate, not adding shit and keeping it 100% standard FAL.

You could simply call it an FAL 2.0.

File: 27078009081_964f37d0ac_b.jpg (134KB, 1024x989px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 1024x989px

>>33581998
FN tried.
They decided it wasnt really possible

>>33582027
They actually kinda succeeded.
It's accurate (1.0 MOA is or better with tuning) and lighter.

Sadly it's not really an FAL any more.
I'd opt for an updated FAL that retains backwards compatibility with regular metric FALs.

Again, that's just me though.

File: Operator.jpg (374KB, 1207x1644px) Image search: [Google]

374KB, 1207x1644px

>>33582038
I mean they succeeded by throwing away everything and starting from scratch

>>33582055
It's still short stroke gas piston, and the magazines are almost the same...
Thoughfor the most part you're right.

And like I said, it needs some modification.

>>33581525
The m16A4 is held to a 4 MOA
All they care about is hitting a man-sized Target from the average engagement distance.

Even the SCAR is held to a 2 MOA and that's 3 times as expensive as an m16A4.

The HK 416 is hwot to a 2 moa with some hitting 1moa.

>>33582065
Tappet gas system though.
And the SCAR is less than a thousand dollars a pop to agency buyers

File: 1479166562812.png (333KB, 608x686px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 608x686px

>>33581543
>same logic applies to aks but fal fags still talk shit about it despite it being used by rhodesian special forces as well
really makes you dink

>>33582188
>less than a thousand to agency buyers
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

GOSH DAMNIT QUADRUPLE HITLER DICK SUCKING ASS MUNCHING FECES EATING .22 LR LOVING HILLARY VOTING SONOVOMOTHERLESSGOAT I'M MAD.

I'm sick of agency prices.
Fucking sacks of monkey shit.

>>33582201
Except AKs fire intermediate rounds, which is weak as shit.

>>33582224
civvies get to pay them back for the R&D.

>>33581870
A4's are actually close to nine pounds, kiddo. Unloaded. Trust me, I work with 3,000 of those bitches every day. There's no way they're 7 pounds. Probably has to do with aluminum quadrail+ACOG+heavy barrel

>>33582239
I know that.

I'm just venting over higher Civillian prices in general.
At least FN lets us have Civillian versions of damn near anything we can afford.

Better than colt has done.

>>33582262
Not him, and while you're right, that's 9 pounds with a whole lot of extras. The fal weighs more with nothing extra. Kiddo

>Better than colt has done.
>>33582298
Like what? I was under the belief that while overpriced, you could get pretty much any colt you wanted.

>>33582324
For a while there that wasn't true.
They're slowly bringing back what people wanted in order to try and stave off bankruptcy another few years.

A dollar short and a day late.

>>33581886
>dance shoes ripped to shit
kek

>>33581653

Originally full auto/select fire.

>>33582432
really it's more accurate to say they watched a bunch of action movies and read guns and ammo and banned every single spooky weapon they found. fucking G11 is banned by name if I remember correctly.

File: 1479082347421.jpg (94KB, 600x601px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 600x601px

>>33582451

>>33581856
G3 is a knockoff CETME that only exists because West Germany was too anally annihilated to use a Belgian rifle.

>>33582752
They wanted indigenous production and the Belgians refused, IIRC. They chose the FAL first.

My DSA shoots 1.5-1.6 moa out of a 21 inch barrel

>>33582224
They make these guns FOR militaries and agencies. That's why they're high quality to begin with, they have to compete with other high quality brands. If you want civilian tier planned obsolescence quality you're going to be looking at civilian brands which are of average quality and utilize average manufacturing methods. Luckily they're also average price.

The civilian market simply doesn't demand high quality and FAN doesn't make low quality. Supply/demand applies, so they can charge accordingly.

>>33581525
a rack grade M4/M16 is 3 moa

>>33583089
>FAN
FN

Though I'm probably fanning the flames of some angry Ruger/s&w owners who demand the glorious SCAR cost as much as their run of the mill AR.

>>33583089
Actually I understand this and I'm quite happy with FN compared to other brands.

At least their weaponry is just a semi auto trigger in an otherwise military gun.
Most brands go full retard and make them just different enough to be a pain.

But I digress, the fact that LE gets a discount is what pisses me off.
Militaries? Sure.
But LE is just us with a badge.
No reason for discounts aside from what we would get.
Drop LE discounts, use that to drag regular prices down, and the military (what matters) still gets its discount.

And fuck Civillian gun companies.
They seem to be what's been producing the steaming likes of shit we have to deal with as of late.

In short I simply wish they'd realize that there's an entire "customer base" that's actually just one of the other customer bases with a uniform.
It's not like a duty pistol or anything, and I've yet to see any PD use anything but a bog standard AR or variant thereof.

>>33581653
scary guns act

>>33583274
Hey, I bought one of that guys new imbel kits that he got from enterprise!

Interesting to see that he's at least knowledgeable about what he's selling.

I do feel bad about the payment/order/shipping bullshit that happened because of me though.

>>33583304
The individual LE discount is just a chunk off the MSRP. I just looked it up and it's still like $20-30 more than actual market price a civilian would pay.

The agency discounts are because they buy in bulk...

>>33581559
is that a joke? my sks clover leafs at 50 yards with wolf

File: SIG 510 DMR.jpg (1MB, 1920x1280px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1280px

Because it's not a SIG 510.

>>33581525
Maybe because it's a battle rifle not a dmr

>>33581569

It doesn't matter anon, at that distance, you either have a great shot that you can't fuck up (your man is exposed in the middle of the street/field and unaware), or more likely, you can't see shit.

Think about shooting with irons. Front sight clear, target fuzzy. Works great when you are shooting at a bright bullseye on a clear day. Not so much when your target is totally camouflaged, and only exposing a tiny portion of themselves. Throw in challenging conditions - the monochromatic light of dusk and dawn, or fog or rain - you're firing at noise and muzzleflashes, not clear targets. 3moa is not the limiting factor.

Isn't the tilting bolt just inherently not that accurate?

>>33581569
Is that how MOA works?!
I seriously never understood how the fuck MOA worked.
Can it really be boiled down to just 3" per 100 yards?
not being sarcastic, genuinely excited in hopes that this is true because I am fucking retarded and never understood what the fuck any of you were talking about when MOA came up.

>>33585021
Did you not take middle school geometry?

>>33582386
brb, buying colt brand colt

>>33585040
I just never understood the MOA thing. Never really looked into it to be honest, just always heard people discussing it which piqued my interest, but it never went further than that.
Honestly that other anon/you just explained it in the most simple way I've ever heard it explained before and it clicked.

>>33585021
>>33585056
yes it just means angle of spread as in a cone, 1 MOA is ~1" at 100 yards, ~2" at 200 yards etc.

File: IMG_20160501_113953 (2).jpg (320KB, 1312x1319px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 1312x1319px

>>33581525
This is from my L1A1 at a distance of 150m
With fixed mechanical sights
Austrian surplus ammo
Standing without support

>>33581525

>Combat rifle meant for the average pleb solider
>Wonder why the fuck it is only as good as the pleb solider doctrine of the day

If you want accuracy buy a hunting rifle or a WW1 era rifle provided it's not Russian.

>>33585443
>implying a lebel or m95 is accurate

>>33585008
It's a problem with lockup consistency.
It's not inherently innacurate; just the dimensions used in the FAL are inaccurate.
It could be redone to different tolerances and dimensions and be better.

PTR91
T
R
9
1

>>33581525
>I love the FAL but why the fuck is it so inaccurate.


It is not. You need to adjust the regulator I you ant to shoot 500M with it.

Fucking save me.

>>33588378
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2016/4/27/tuning-the-fals-gas-system/

Screw the regulator sleeve forward click-by-click, firing one round after each change until the action is locked open by the empty magazine. At this point, you know enough gas is being allowed against the piston to cycle the action.

Here

Now go shoot 500M

>>33585264
nice shooting

>>33588422
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIASnwvC3c

e. Use as o single shot rifle

Turn the gas plug so that the Setters "Gr" appear on top,
instead of trie letter "A".

With the magazine removed, pull the cocking handle fully
back.

With the right hand, push the holding open device upwards
(fig. 22}. Keeping it in this position, let the mechanism come
gently forward until it stops against the holding open device,
which keeps the mechanism in its rear position; the gun is then
in the open position.

Still using the right hand, insert a round into the chamber,
pushing it fully home with the thumb.
^9- 22
Press the holding open device downwards (as for loading by
magazine), the mechanism will then move forward, impelled by
the return springs, ond the rifle is ready to fire.

The same operation must be repeated for each round.


Now u is a snoiper

perfectly capable of hitting a torso at 500 meters in single shit mode if clean and with decent munitions.

O and don't attach a bipod to the fucking barrel that's for full auto are d

>>33581525
Because it's a cold war era standard issue military rifle and that's about par for the course for that type of weapon? Shit, 5 moa is serviceable for current issue m4's.

>>33584853
Oh God I'm cumming

>>33584853

damn...

File: 1461737839110.jpg (106KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 640x640px

A lot of it comes from worn ass kit builds, mine's about 1.5 MOA and it was built from mostly NOS parts and some DSA small parts.

A lot of it comes down to quality and age, besides, 3MOA is more than enough to do what you need it to.

Aim small miss small nigga.

>>33582262
They are 8 lbs, which was considered remarkable at the time as most service weapons were 10lbs.

>>33589367
Isnt it aim big, miss small?

>>33589367
nvm im stupid

>>33585829
>Implying the Lebel isn't
My Lebel is just as good as my K31.

>>33582262
This.

File: IMG_1240.jpg (450KB, 750x1334px) Image search: [Google]

450KB, 750x1334px

Shot my first FAL this weekend, fully Rhodied up.

Makes me want a .308 of my own.

Any M1A tips? YES, I WANT AN M14.

>>33581525
Tilting bolt lock is why

>>33590167
Grease the rails and the metal-to-metal contact parts of the op rod.
That's basically the most important thing to do with an M1A.
Memes aside the M14 is actually a decently solid rifle.
t M1A owner

File: 17757218_10213459107659216_134284149524367170_n.jpg (43KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 480x480px

The average FAL is an ancient service rifle. You'll get similar statistics from any other old BRG.

>>33582055
No, they just redesigned the AR-18 and put a tappet in the gas system.

File: 1491772165437.png (243KB, 578x555px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 578x555px

>>33582239
You're fucking delusional if you think you're going to be making shots at enough distance where there is a stopping powah difference against an ak with a shitty fal.
>2011+6
>people still fall for the fal meme when ar10s exist

>>33582055
Fuck, this image looks like old post office back in the day

>>33581803
The experienceday builders on FALfiles disagree. Building an accurate FAL is voodoo and more work than its worth

File: DEEP BREATHS.jpg (52KB, 501x507px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 501x507px

>>33584853
That is gorgeous!

File: 1489592516231.jpg (27KB, 267x329px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 267x329px

>>33590376
Oh the one battle rifle that was never in common service?

Inb4 muh SR-25

>>33583344
>at least knowledgeable
being that he's considered one of the best FAL guys in the US he should know what he's talking about

>>33584817

50 yards... lol

>>33581525
It's meant to be a durable and cheap service rifle, not a marksman rifle.
3MOA is fine.
Most of the ones still out there are old as fuck by now, so that probably has something to do with it too.

>>33582074
You have to remember that those military standards are minimum standards with military ball.

The FAL accuracy potentials we are discussing are best potentials with match ammo.

>>33591906
If you think an M16 at 5moa with military ball is going to be a huge improvement with match ammo you're sorely mistaken.

hold on are you telling me there are soldiers who don't use 20mm light machine guns?

>>33581870
sounds like a manlet to me

Built a few from kits off DSA uppers, considered 2.5moa really good.
You can headspace them a little tighter than a mil gun, my biggest complaint was the front sight on the upper and the rear on the lower. Had to bend the tabs usually to take out some of the play between the upper/lower just so the sights couldn't wobble all over.
Good guns but I likes em better when you cut to 16" and open up the gas system to make them a little more handy. The optic mount dust cover from DSA is decent at least, never had an issue with them.

>>33585264
nice

>>33590211
this also avoid pro mag mags at all fucking costs for the m1A.

>>33592378
>Not avoiding pro mag for everything
Kys scum
>But dis promag werked once
Double kys

File: 7Hr9WR9.jpg (97KB, 355x960px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 355x960px

>>33584882
this guy understands combat, shit ain't CoD, most people hit the ground or find cover in combat, they don't just sit there.

>>33581525

the average FAL is a 40 year old parts kit

>>33585264
fuck dude. how far apart are those rings? if you don't even use a sling to stabilize, that's really fucking impressive

File: 1468447835755.jpg (237KB, 1080x600px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 1080x600px

>>33581525

When you've got a platoon with a belt-fed LMG, a sharp shooter, an artillery spotter, air support, and armored support, you don't need sub-MOA accuracy out of an infantry rifle.

That's also why the Red Army didn't have or need accuracy out of AKMs.

An implement designed to win in war is not designed to win the heart of the weekend bench-shooter.

>>33590211
which model should i get? i cant decide between black polymer socom 16 and the standard wood furniture model

>3moa
Where did this meme come from? Get a good Steyr barrel and enjoy some 1.5 MOA

>>33592805
I don't think it's the barrel really, rather the inherent effects of its design.

>>33592665
You said m14 yourself, so it sounds like you'd be more satisfied with the wood furniture, regarding aesthetics.

>>33592820
There's design things that affect it but it's not a 3moa gun. Anyone who isn't a memeing retard knows Steyr made some of the most accurate FALs you can get your hands on, Imbel is actually pretty damn good despite being Brazilian, and Argentina uses a bunch of FN licensed shit along with Brazil. The only reason you'd get an FAL over 2MOA is you got a shitty Izzy or G1 barrel that's been beat around in the desert with no fuckin maintenance for decades

>>33592871
I don't have much experience with them, but I guess I assumed op meant the design was rated/expected to be 3 moa, with a new, average quality barrel.

>>33592901
OP is probably a memelord with no FAL desu, FAL having shit accuracy is a meme perpetuated by people who have 0 experience with FALs

I don't normally bother to shoot groups but next time I go I'm gonna run some 7.62 surplus through mine and post groups

File: 1482379981110.jpg (250KB, 990x656px) Image search: [Google]

250KB, 990x656px

>>33581835
I hate to agree with a tripfag, but he's right. Almost all service rifles from this era are 2-5 MOA guns, which is fine for combat. Nobody is gonna get 1 MOA performance in a firefight, so why bother. Militaries will always choose reliability, durability, cost and parts interchangeability over match accuracy.

>>33592922
Now see, I hadn't actually heard the meme of shit accuracy. I consider 3 moa "acceptable" for a military use infantry weapon. Most troops not actually aiming anyway and whatnot.

>>33581653
>>33581748
The G11 is banned by name in Syrupland, as are all of its variants.

http://www.gunownersresource.com/faq/what-guns-are-banned-in-canada/

>>33592991
It's a meme the same way people talk about AK accuracy. Shitty Turk and Izzy rifles might open up that much due to shit barrels but I've never heard of an Imbel, Steyr, FN, or any inch pattern FAL opening up that much

>>33583089
It's so adorable how little you know about manufacturing.

FN charges a premium because they can. What they make was specifically designed to get them the lowest possible overhead the could achieve.

Aluminum upper receiver any idiot could machine if they knew where to look on metals depot, the barrels being made in house and only lasting the "25,000" round life because the military considers s barrel still good if it's shooting minute of man, ala sub 5 moa at 100 meters, which isn't hard to do if you use high carbon nickel alloy stainless, cheapo stainless that does well with heat dispersion and wears well. And if you're FN, is held in the receiver by 4 hex screws, just like their rails. Cheapo injection molded everything else for the stock, lower, grip that costs them next to nothing but they sell for five times what magpul does. Not to mention internals that are just cheapo high carbon steel that wears nice, but I'd the same shit used in AR15s.

It's so funny seeing the "FN Quality" meme totted when they couldn't even be bothered to check the squish on their pistols.

They get hailed as Lords of quality for the price of their boy toys but anyone in any engineering field can easily point out otherwise.

>>33592665
Personally I've got the standard and scout wood stocked models. I can't really attest to the SOCOMs.

>>33594016
Not only that, if you've ever held a P90, you can tell it's very cheaply made. It's not bad but the casting can be pretty rough.

File: 2.jpg (395KB, 1366x692px) Image search: [Google]

395KB, 1366x692px

sup

>>33585008
>>33590190

Ding ding. Tilting bolts do not have repeatable lockup, so accuracy suffers. Same reason why the SKS isn't that accurate (with the bonus of looser Commie manufacturing tolerances).

File: LaughingDeityRaceBattleriflefag[1].jpg (75KB, 530x346px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 530x346px

>>33581525
FALLING FOR FAL INACCURATE MEME

shaking my hed. tb.h

came into this thread to post this

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286983

BTFO
T
F
O

enfield barrel reporting here.

*leaves thread.

File: 1489782148945.jpg (95KB, 885x660px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 885x660px

>>33582201
>tfw FAL fag and Kalashnikov autist

File: SLR-104 sidearm.jpg (1MB, 3151x2060px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3151x2060px

>>33595943
The masterrace tbhfam, patrician taste

>>33595948
I don't see why people can't like both
they're both fucking solid guns

File: Stg58 outside.jpg (3MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3264x2448px

>>33595956
Usually they've never tried them or bought into memes

File: IMG_20170410_181223.jpg (3MB, 4160x3120px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4160x3120px

>>33592496
The rings have 5cm between, central one has 10cm

(This one is from Vz.58, the impression is spoiled with some magdumps)

>>33581946
>>33581926
Tfw own one of the good original dsa stg builds

:3

kore wa milsurp thread desu ka

>>33597854
That feeling when you own original British L1A1 SLR carefully saved and imported directly from a military stock

;3

>>33585056
How the fuck were other people explaining it to you? Every time I've ever seen anyone talk about MOA they use the "1 MOA means there's a 1" spread at 100 meters, 2" spread at 200 meters, 3" spread at 300 meters, etc."

>>33585021
(MOA) X yards/100

3 X 300/100 = 9

>>33582262
"The rifle weighs more when you add a bunch of shit on it"
Thats pretty hard to believe, kiddo

>>33581926
Wrong
My type 3 hybrid imbel receiver on L1A1 kit shoots easily 2 MOA

The only thing that fucks FALs is large peep sights

My understanding is that the FAL was redesigned rather hastily to fit the 7.62 and that because of this, the magazine would shake, resulting in lock-up issues.

>>33584853
Spend a ton of money to look like a generic ass ar10

>>33583344
Hahahaha wow.
You bought a kit from the man who legitimately wrote a book on fal gunsmithing. He is an absolute source of knowledge.

You should join any of the files forums, fal/ak. You can learn a lot like who's information you can trust.

>>33581653
Actually before that. FALs were restricted even back when you could buy ARs non restricted and short barrelled handguns were not prohibited. They were restricted because it was our armed forces weapon. They switched from restricted to prohibited in 1993, along will lots of other funs.

They aren't designed as a DMR.

Watch the FN FAL vs G3 video on inrangetv / full 30

noobs