How do you survive the 18-32 months of fallout? That's at

>>33563689
>18 months of fallout

What, are the nukes exchanged for 15 months straight or something?

>>33563689
>How do you survive the 18-32 months of fallout?
Thats not how fallout works.
Fallout decays along the 7:10 rule. For every 7-fold increase in time after detonation, there is a 10-fold decrease in the exposure rate. In other words, when the amount of time is multiplied by 7, the exposure rate is divided by 10. For example, let's say that 2 hours after detonation the exposure rate is 400 R/hr. After 14 hours, the exposure rate will be 1/10 as much, or 40 R/hr.

Radiation damage is a function of time and intensity. An intense area may give you a lethal dose in 10 minutes. But in a few months you could move through the area for hours with no ill effects.

Further away from ground zero, after a few weeks, you will be able to live in a fallout zone for decades, with only in increased risk of cancer decades later. Even though this increased cancer risk is associated with a level several hundred times or even thousand times what was considered 'safe' before the war.

>That's at least 3 crop cycles fucked right?
No.

>Food, gear, weapons, locations with best chance of survival.
Thats a complicated question.


>How deep underground do you go?
You don't have to go underground unless you are near a surface burst.

>Is sailing on an ocean viable?
Sure.

>Staying ahead of the radiation and fishing around islands.
Radiation doesnt really work like that.

With food this is very hard...
you need to have every type of food sugar,beans,wheat,rice,powder milk,some meat in can,fruits and vegetables dried ofc. If its possible buy MRE its really good idea.

Water is a big problem even if u have supplies its still better to get your self a purification tablets. Also you need prepare your supplies like 3 liters/day for one person.

Communication like radio and phone are must to have i guess.

Your shelter is a biggest problem cause it should not be a big place or very small for you.

Material should be steel, concrete and wood
steel about 30cm, concrete about 70-75 and wood around 1m not separated all together. Plus of course good amount of soil around you... will be good if u are at least 5-6m underground. Be sure you have good amount of medical supplies cause you will need them.

With all of that you cant just go into shelter and wait there without nothing your psychic will start play with you soon.... get your self some books or ebook movies something that will keep you in good condition. Also you need to train your body physically if u have good amount of supply. When fallout will end and you will get on top it will be about pure survival so be sure you have weapon and ammo for you.

>>33563805
>Could it go Nuclear?
Extremely unlikely.

>>33563775
Very nice and brief job. Thank you. Not OP.

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>>33563825
Why would Assad gas some civilians right before peace talks? It seems extremely counter productive on his part.
And how is this going to affect Assad and his situation?

>>33563840
>Not OP

Don't even say that or the children will get upset

>>33563866
>Why would Assad gas some civilians right before peace talks?
It is hard to say with certainty, but it is possible that he perceived the US as having shifted their position on Syria enough so that something like that would not result in strikes.

It is also possible that, since there have been dozens of possible chemical weapon uses (which are largely unattributed) since 2012 that Assad figured that this was the status quo, and his military planners underestimated the number of casualties.
No matter what, it was clearly an intelligence failure on the part of Syria.

>It seems extremely counter productive on his part.
Mistakes often are. Assad wants to end this thing asap.

>And how is this going to affect Assad and his situation?
He's going to get some nice new Russian SAMs, and he will face a choice.
Use the weapons again (again, this is somewhat the status quo for the conflict, the west only notices when there is a media fervor, which is hard to predict) and see if the US is willing to hit again.

or

Not use them, and let the war drag on.


Calling the US bluff is a risky move, but its not without its benefits. The US would be forced to decide between enforcing their precedent and humiliating the Russians (forcing them to do something in response), or ignoring it and being wounded (probably mortally) in domestic politics.

>>33563930
>He's going to get some nice new Russian SAMs, and he will face a choice.
Use the weapons again (again, this is somewhat the status quo for the conflict, the west only notices when there is a media fervor, which is hard to predict) and see if the US is willing to hit again.

How much influence does Russia actually have in Syria? It seems to me that if things get a little hot they will just back down to avoid confrontation, could Russia do similar sort of strikes in it's position?

Also, apparently 23 of the 59 Tomahawks fired failed to hit their target, what happened?

>>33563982
>How much influence does Russia actually have in Syria?
A lot.

>It seems to me that if things get a little hot they will just back down to avoid confrontation, could Russia do similar sort of strikes in it's position?
Russia would almost certainly never deploy chemical weapons from their aircraft or give the Syrians more chemical weapons.

>Also, apparently 23 of the 59 Tomahawks fired failed to hit their target, what happened?
I haven't seen that yet. Would be high, but not shockingly so.

>>33563689

Fallout and nuclear winter are a meme
At least how you imagine them.

Nuclear winter is almost nonexistant

>>33564014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/donald-trump-launches-us-air-strikes-against-assad-regime-syria/

>"Only 23 US rockets hit their target - it is not clear where the 36 others landed"

>>33564041
Sure but the source on this is the Syrian Army.

>>33563766
What is long half-life decay of certain elements ya dingus?

Did you ever attend a chemistry class?

>>33564041
Very possible certain targets were assigned 2 or more tomahawks, making it hard to distinguish how many hit unless live footage of the attack emerges. Also the attack only lasted 4 minutes, so witness reports are likely unreliable.

>>33563775
Why would North Korea threaten to use Nuclear Weapons if it knows their use would mean absolute annihilation? It looks like that the biggest threat to the regime's survival is from inside the party (Hence all the executions and assassinations) It would seem that the Nuclear program is just a part of Kim trying to assert his supremacy as leader and make it look like he is actually doing something by using nukes as a bargaining chip.

>>33564120
>Why would North Korea threaten to use Nuclear Weapons if it knows their use would mean absolute annihilation?
To deter US conventional actions like you just saw in Syria.

>>33564073
>Did you ever attend a chemistry class?

Obviously you haven't

>>33564139
>To deter US conventional actions like you just saw in Syria.

But haven't WMDs historically been a pretext for Military intervention? (e.g Iraq) Why is the US lax when it comes to North Korean WMDs? They had plenty of opportunities to prevent NK from getting a complete arsenal but like i said, have stood idle, could there have been Political motivations at play when the US went into Iraq that simply aren't there for North Korea?

Who cares, if you can survive a big thing no one else can you might as well turn on an old movies like vincent price or charlton heston I Am Legend movies. If you still have power and everyone else is fucked. You're still just as fucked you're just more comfortable, you lubed up for the inevitable fucking end.

>>33564196
>But haven't WMDs historically been a pretext for Military intervention? (e.g Iraq)
Yes.

>Why is the US lax when it comes to North Korean WMDs?
Because the ability to inflict horrendous casualties on South Korea is a deterrent.
They can do this with conventional weapons as well. the difference is that Deterrence is not a fixed value. What deters in one set of circumstances does not deter in all.

>They had plenty of opportunities to prevent NK from getting a complete arsenal but like i said, have stood idle,
Because they felt that the risk of casualties in South Korea was not worth the use of conventional force to halt nuclear development.
The DPRK is also very skilled at giving the appearance of diplomatic measures having an effect.

>could there have been Political motivations at play when the US went into Iraq that simply aren't there for North Korea?
Of course. Seeing the shelling of Seoul for several hours on CNN is a political consideration.
As is the issue of what do you do after? The damage done to South Korea due to strikes and then having to absorb the North into a unified government is a political consideration.

All military force is politically motivated, Anon. This shouldn't be a shock.

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>>33563689
So you want to survive for 1 to 3 years after nuclear war? Ok, let's go through the checklist for a 6 month time period. You'll need your shelter to protect you greatly. For example, if you have a PF10 shelter (basic unprepared basements), outside radiation of 600 rads/hr (at 1 hour after) means you'll probably live for decades of in protection. (300 rads/hr at 2 hours is similar.) At 600 rads/hr outside and in a PF10 shelter, you'll have absorbed 152 rads by day 14. Outside from 1 hr/day til 3 months, 2 hrs/day til 2 years, & 3 hrs/day til 14 years gets you to ~200 rads.

Water=90 to 180 gal
>Sealed containers best, tap water and bleach is fine
Food=220,000 to 450,000 kcals (1200 to 2500 kcal/day)
>$8 to $16/day for MRE's or freeze-dried pouches
>$5 to $10/day for #10 cans of freeze-dried
>$1 to $2/day for rice, beans, sugar, whole wheat or grains, and cooking oils
>$3 to $5/day with canned goods and frozen meat (lasts for a couple weeks without refrigeration; eat all the chicken and chuck, then whole pork, turkey, cuts of beef, and finally whole beef)
Shelter=PF40 (5.5 halving thicknesses) to (7 halving thicknesses) PF100 fallout shelter
>10x10 basement room fortified with cinder blocks, rebar, sand, 2x8's, and plywood
>N95 personal dust masks and top HVAC air filters
>5 gallon bucket, plastic bags, and sawdust/kitty litter for toilet
>Hygiene supplies, including bleach, soap, shampoo, deodorant, shaving kit, hair shears, and valet kit
>Camp cots and bedding
Power=enough to meet your needs
>Flashlights and batteries
>Portable or standby generator
>"Solar generator" (batteries, inverter, and hopefully a panel or two as well)
Entertainment=books, magazines
>Hand crank radio
>MP3 player, tablet, or laptop
>Board and card games
Security
>Fire extinguishers
>Smoke alarm & carbon monoxide alarms
>Rifle & ammo

Other big upgrades
>PF 1000 shelter, NBC air filration, EMP hardening, NBC water filteration, NBC PPE

>>33564812
You are not accounting for the 7/10 rule.

>>33565092
And how do you think the 7:10 rule is supposed to work? I did a basic breakdown with a large margin of safety.

>>33563866
Bitch you calling me out?
FUCK OP

>>33565208
>At 600 rads/hr outside and in a PF10 shelter, you'll have absorbed 152 rads by day 14

Its actually much less than 152 because the 600 rads/hr rate decreases by a factor of 10 every 7 hours.

>>33564812
Your shelter is far less important than a good system of decon. No matter how good your preparation is you'll still have to go outside eventually, which means you're gonna need an outer protective garment and a means of either disposal or safe storage for it. Ambient radiation is far less dangerous than contact radiation from particulates, and you DO NOT want that particulate tracked all over your living quarters where you're in close proximity to it 24/7.

>>33565243
You're an idiot.

A 7-fold increase in time results in 1/10th the prior rate.

An hour after the bombs hit, say your geiger counter reads for 1000 rads/hr (10 Gy)
By 7 hours, that's 100 rads/hr. (1 Gy)
At 49 hours (2 days), that's 10 rads/hr.
At 343 hours (14.3 days), that's 1 rad/hr.

That's why shelter is so very important. You can live for 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. You absolutely must stay in your closest shelter for a bare minimum of one day. If your prepared shelter is few minute away, then you should be okay to risk it after one full day. If it's further, you'll need to continually shelter in place. Day 2 you'll be forced out of your initial shelter without a water source--so go for your own prepared shelter and hope you get there quickly/safely. Stay any longer and you're certainly dead of dehydration. If you have a clean water source, you're better off to shelter in place for a week or two and risk a level of starvation instead of radiation sickness. That'll buy you much more time to travel and you'll have weeks of provisions to regain your strength before leaving again.

>>33565243
Correct, but I'd rather overstate the risks since most people don't have radiological monitoring devices and simple/cheap stuff like NukAlert or stickers doesn't tell you clearly.

>>33565269
Decontamination is something I forgot to mention. Yes, it's extremely important. Once you start going out, you need to wash all exposed skin and leave several changes of outer garments outside your main shelter. Hooded rain jacket, rubber boots, gloves (over the cuffs), bandana around the neck, N95 dust mask, and glasses/goggles. It'll suck but that's all stuff fairly easily cleaned or cheap to stock up on (the N95 mask). Obviously a proper NBC suit provides a much easier cleanup and government shelters likely have decontamination showers and drainage.

>>33565473
>An hour after the bombs hit, say your geiger counter reads for 1000 rads/hr (10 Gy)
>By 7 hours, that's 100 rads/hr. (1 Gy)
>At 49 hours (2 days), that's 10 rads/hr.
>At 343 hours (14.3 days), that's 1 rad/hr.
Then why did you give an example of 600 r/hr that assumed that rate would remain unchanged for 14 days resulting in 152 rads?

>>33565234
Inb4 hunter impersonators derail the thread.
Also please feed me your cummies.

>>33565611
>Aside from that, you're correct.
Thanks.

>>33565473 (You)
The other thing not accounted for is the result of your work. The first jaunt out should be to bury and of your dead and to dispose of trash (before pests move in). You should also collect food/water. After that, start cleaning. If you can clean the fallout from the surrounding area, you'll increase the effectiveness of your shelter and get less exposure when working in the future. Or stay out of it and you should be OK in time. Still, radiation will be a serious concern for months or years. So, no more camping trips for a while.

>>33565635
Yep.

>>33565518
Again, because most people lack monitoring equipment and, like the weather, local conditions can vary significantly. The testing station at the nearest surviving science/engineering/medical facility may detect 500 rads/hr but cannot account for the conditions miles away. It's an advisory reading--gives a decent big picture for those reading/listening. Aside from that, you're correct. I didn't spend hours making a graph and plotting each point of the rough 7:10 rule. There's also the aspect of initial exposure that I didn't take into account.

>>33565500
>>33565513
>>33565531
>>33565538
>>33565554
GET OUT
GET THE FUCK OUT
DO YOU REALLY HAVE OTHING BETTER TO DO?
GET OUT

>>33565643
>The first jaunt out should be to bury and of your dead
Fallout management dictates that you would store the corpses in the shelter until you can leave permanently.

>>33565679
Only do that if you can 100% seal the shelter vs vermin. One dirty rat tracking radioactive particulate into your shelter multiple times a day for a week will provide more total radiation to the inhabitants than one 30 minute excursion to go huck the corpses and shit buckets in the nearest ditch on day 2.

>>33565795
If you can't go outside, it is unlikely that vermin will be able to go outside and live long enough to repeatedly track fallout inside.

And vermin inside the shelter, are likely to remain there, rather than make multiple trips outside.

>>33565679
If your initial exposure is low (<200 rads), you've got a <5% chance of exposure leading to death. If you're in poor shape, death is in 6 to 8 weeks.

Those with higher exposure--200 to 600 rads--run a higher risk. With proper care, 50% mortality at 600 rads. Without, it's a death sentence with 95% mortality. Death expected in 4 to 6 weeks.

At 800 rads, you're basically guarantied dead in 2 to 4 weeks.

Anything higher and you won't last 2 weeks--but you also probably won't reach the shelter. There's nobody there to pick you up either--they're all in the same state as you.

So realistically, you have 2 weeks to 2 months until in-shelter deaths matter. At 2 weeks, you can start to scavenge supplies. Any corpses will probably be very recent and thus not yet a hazard. Start digging a ditch if none exist nearby. In a week (7 hours of digging), when the corpse is a hazard, you'll hopefully have your ditch dug and can remove the corpse, covering it in nearby fallout and topsoil. You should also wash down the greater building you're sheltering in. Half of all fallout should hit the ground within 24 hours so clean that up too.

>>33565830
It's very tough to seal shelters up 100%. Mice can fit through very small holes and have a nasty habit of making those holes larger. Hopefully your provisions haven't been contaminated--because that's what's attracting and keeping vermin nearby.

>>33566064
>Mice can fit through very small holes and have a nasty habit of making those holes larger. Hopefully your provisions haven't been contaminated--because that's what's attracting and keeping vermin nearby.
If its too radioactive for humans to go outside, its too radioactive for vermin.

They will die long before they are able to make multiple trips in and out of your shelter.

As far as storing corpses, FEMA and CD shelter managers manual explains the storage of corpses and how to deal with them.
At no time do they recommend attempting to go outside until it is safe enough to leave permanently.

Fallout is not uniform. It is very possible that even though the base level is low enough to tolerate 30 minutes outside, runoff or precipitation may have created extremely hot pockets that you may inadvertently trudge though.

Then you track it back into the shelter, and expose everyone in it. Considering that it would take more than one person to move a corpse outside, the chance is further increased.

If you are in a shelter, you don't leave until you are not coming back.

>>33566064
>Start digging a ditch if none exist nearby. In a week (7 hours of digging),
Further, Ill point out that while you are digging this ditch, runoff is concentrating the fallout into this area.

And you keep having your shelter occupants return to it, get inside it, and then return to the shelter.

Good call.

>>33564073
What is the abundance ratio of those long decay elements as part of total fallout ya dingus? You do realize that long decay elements emit less radiation in a given time as well, and the preponderance of what it does emit is alpha particles which only suck if you're ingesting them in high quantity.

>>33566313
Depends on what local weather conditions look like. But CD recommendations were to clean up everything and move it as far away as possible. In an urban situation (what CD was written for in large part), cleaning the roads makes it easier for g-men to pass through, find local hot spots, and direct their energies there. Also lets them distribute aide (if any exists) or simply allows for post-event transportation (find low-radiation areas and resettle nearby survivors and government there). The eventual goal is to find a new normal.

CD recommendations would have you decontaminate and allows for acceptable losses. After all, if you're in a city or suburb, you probably don't have a year or two worth of food stored and don't have the green space either to even try growing food crops. That leaves you with few options but to get to work, clearing land nearby for the purposes of decreasing radiation and to prepare a first crop. Risk death now or assure death soon.

>>33566431
I am speaking directly to shelter management.

I am not talking about any post attack recovery. You seem to be confused.

>>33566279
>They will die long before they are able to make multiple trips in and out of your shelter.
Rats are way more resilient to radiations than humans

>>33566605
No they are not.

>>33566667
Lethal dose (50% mortality) is 4.5 Gy for humans (without medical care) and about 7.5 Gy for rats, 8 Gy for rabbits, and 9 Gy for mice. He has a point. The other aspect is sterilization, which is likely in both at far less than lethal dosages. Of course, you only need a few mice to start a new colony and there'll be hundreds in a couple months.

>>33566819
We are talking about why higher doses than that.
This guy is talking about 6 Gy.

He does not have a point.

>>33563689
>How do you survive the 18-32 months of fallout?
I think I played 18-32 months of Fallout back in college. As I recall, I survived on Doritos and Mountain Dew for most of it.

Is there a general rule about radiation/fallout exposure rates in relation to the distance from a nuclear detonation?

How much danger would I be in if I lived 20 miles from the nearest possible target?

I know that fallout can be carried great distances by high altitude currents, but I would think it would begin to disperse at a certain distance as well.

>>33563785
Please stop taking about thing you don't understand.

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How to acquire anti rad gear ? Is it even possible for mere mortal human (civilian) ? And most of all . Is there somehing like rad pills or syroup ? And yea . I know it doest work instantly .duh

>>33565651
STOP IMPERSONATING ME
ITS NOT FUNNY ANYMORE

>>33567871
You can buy potassium iodide that helps prevent thyroid problems from fallout. Not much else comes to mind

>>33567871
Iodine tablets are a good option. Tincture of iodine is not to be ingested but can be spread on skin.

N95 dust masks are fairly effective, as would be ANSI goggles and nitrile gloves. For body coverage, a rain suit, hooded coveralls, or poncho. You'll also want rain boots. The key with all this is impermeability and easy of cleaning off. You can also add in a 3/4 or full length rain coat. Other necessary gear is an NBC water filter or two (use a normal one to filter out big particles) and getting a proper geiger counter is great but expensive.

>>33567871
>Is there somehing like rad pills
holy shit, learn how radiation works.

its not a fucking poison

i cant believe i'm saying this, but go watch the old duck and cover videos along with the civil defense videos about food preperation


you can eat a can of beans straight out of nuclear helfire as long as you sterilize the outside