If you lived in game of thrones, assuming you weren't going

>>33556636
no, but whats your logic here and why on /k/ of all places? this aint innawesteros

>>33556636
Probably because they were compensating for their tiny baby penises. RAPEiers should not be allowed. I can't wait until the dragon princess kills all these problematic a**holes.

>>33557200
>swords
>weapons
Really though, OP. Not sure your point. Why would a rapier provide any advantage?

>>33556636
It's advantageous to carry whatever you're proficient in, and not draw attention to yourself.

>>33557200
>>33557221
>>33557228

Cause every mother fucker is carrying a hand and a half sword or an arming sword. Wouldn't you be able to rape a nigger with that extra length on the rapier?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r7VWIQCHvM


Or are too many people wearing armor? Like how many people have we seen straight up jumped in kings landing? And things like small swords do exist because Aria has one (or at least a sword designed for thrusting) and her teacher was showing her how to use it.

>>33557260
Syrio Forel was the First Sword of Braavos and his style was foreign to Westeros and mocked by the ignorant Kingsguard who were by and large, the elite of the elite on the continent.

>>33557318
Dude held his own for a while vs multiple kings guardsmen using a broken wooden sword though.

>>33557343
I didn't say he was shit: he was one of the finest swordsmen in the books. I'm saying his fighting style is completely foreign to Westeros.

It's like being a Dothraki Ironborn - it's just not going to happen.

>>33556636
the only ones wearing any sort of weapon will be my enemies when I thrust my sword through their bodies

>>33556636
Personally? I'd go with a polearm, preferably a halberd but a spear would do too.
Just remember swords never were the king of the battlefield.

>>33557364
Oh, I think I missed the word ignorant when I read your post

>>33557401
You can't wear a spear

>>33557748
I'm certain it wouldn't be too hard to rig up a sling for one.

>>33558378
Then why didn't anyone?

>>33558412
Doorways.

>>33558459
Just have someone hold the door.

>>33556636

Do rapiers even exist there yet?

>>33558412
To be fair I assume the social etiquette dictates you don't lug a massive spike on a stick everywhere indoors. But considering I don't have a reputation to uphold I really don't care.

>>33556636
>not an expert
but ain't rapiers somehow ''modern''?

>>33556636
The TV show has a generic renaissance fair dress code, but in the books, their tech level is about 13th to 14th century.

So arming swords ahoy!

Because you are an assasin?

>>33557364
>It's like being a Dothraki Ironborn - it's just not going to happen.
Actually given that both the Dothraki and Ironborn take slaves, travel widely, and are raiders it's not that farfetched for someone to be a member of one group and claim descent from the other.

>>33556636
Too many people with armor, too many people with shields.

>>33557260
Depends on the culture and technical prowess of said cultures. If I'm not mistaken, the rapier in It's commonly displayed form came about after the arming sword and longsword. If the setting doesn't lend for rapiers to exist yet, then that would clearly be why, "every mother fucker is carrying a hand and a half sword or an arming sword."

Also armor is hard to defeat with a flexible sword. Yes, you can strike weak points with said weapons, but even then, you still need to separate mail, and pierce jerkin and cloth.

The rapier as we know it today seems to have come about in the 14th or 15 centuries AD, and GoT, looks like its far before that time period from a technological standpoint at most points in the books and show.

>>33556636
>wouldn't it be advantageous to wear a rapier than the broad swords all the other characters seem to always carry?
No because just having a rapier doesn't instantly make you better than everyone just like a katana doesn't give you the ability to teleport.

On a different subject pertaining to game of edgelords: Why the fuck has technology not evolved in the thousands of years that apparantly passed in the lore? What the fuck is with "medieval" fantasy worlds and always being caught in a state of technological stagnation?

>>33561765
Dragons or some shit. Maybe the weird as fuck seasons as well.

>>33561765
cause guns ruin muh setting

>>33561845
Not even asking for guns tho, Wildfire has existed for thousands of years and is the peak of military tech yet all people do with it is lob jars of it at people, Wouldn't ballista bolts with a fragile metal casing (say, thin cast iron with a wax coating to prevent sparking) be a much safer delivery method? Bonus points if you utilize a fuse for timed charges for fucking airburst ballista grenades that rain sharp cast iron shards and fire down on armies.

The people in GOT have absolutely no sense of innovation when it comes to weapons tech, Aside from crossbows they've been using the same shit for thousands of years.
>>33561822
Dragons need not apply, Aside from recent events they haven't been a military factor in hundreds of years from what I understand.

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>>33558571
>Do rapiers even exist there yet?

Arya's smallsword called needle exists so I guess rapiers can exit there too. In any case, no, a rapier would not be that great because most enemies are wearing substantial amounts of armour.

>>33561903
but they do use ballistas and catapults to launch jars (which makes way more sense than cast iron and actually has historical precedent), plus "spitfires" which are presumably fire siphons of some kind

>>33561952
Clay is fragile, Fragile casing+unstable explosive+drunken peasants=bad time.
In theory a brittle metal casing on the head of a large wooden bolt would be much more drop resistant than clay jars while still being fragile enough to rupture from impacting at high velocity (IE: Fired from a siege weapon) aswell as being potentially more aerodynamic, Furthermore catapults suck ass and I refuse to talk about them.

That's not the only way wildfire could be utilized either in a way that's not just "lob jars of the stuff and hope you don't blow your own shit up", What about having shaped charges at the base of your fortifications? As faggots start piling up against the gate with faggering rams set the charges off and blast them with wizard napalm and a hail of molten metal that used to be the casing, All while the shape of the charge directs the blast AWAY from your shit and into their shit.

They've had thousands of years to figure out how to most efficiently use the stuff and they're still using the most basic method there is, Worse than that there's only ONE small group that even know how to make the stuff that we know of, Which is fucking stupid because sooner or later the recipe would get around and everyone with money to spend would be mass producing the shit on whatever scale you can in a world where everyone's illiterate and drink eachother's piss out of a creek.

I fucking hate medieval fantasy so much.

>>33562103
in the show wildfyre explodes so clearly it can be used as a propellant. maybe it can be concentrated/crystallized into powder and even if it can't you can rig up cannons with cases out of glass or clay....

>>33562132
Doubtful, The shit melts through steel better than jet fuel. Any gun you'd use would probably explode into a shower of molten chunks unless it was made out of valyrian space magic. Its best use from what I've seen is in bombs.
Napalm sticks to wights.

>>33556636
Okay, since rapier isn't really a good idea and everyone uses steel (yes steel) armor and shield, how about handgun? Is there any handgun caliber that can penetrate steel armor?

>in b4 shot placement

>>33562237
>Is there any handgun caliber that can penetrate steel armor?

most field armour would get reckt by 9mm easily. It's just 2mm of steel on average for breast plates and often considerably less as plate thickness changes depending on the spot in the plate and need.

>>33562103
If you read the book, wildfire isnt something that could be made normally.

It could only be made with magic and magic was snuffed out when the last dragon died almost 200 years before the book series began, and magic has been dying out before then too.

So it was basically a lost art when they started producing it again and the cruder form wasn't all explosive, hence everyone's surprise when shit started exploding.

>>33562402
>Magic

fine then. my greates concern would be the dragon bitch though. she's a multiculture tyrant with literal walking and flying WMDs. she's the first who'd need to be made gone. killing her dragoons by whatever meany possible should be the primary objective.

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>>33562418
Already happened in the series.

Once Valyria blew up with all the dragons (hence magic dying out and leaving behind only a few over in Westeros) all the cities that were conquered by the dragon kingdom went crazy with freedom and turned into Africa 2.
Only the rich cities that were connected by the dragon-built-almost-literal freeways stayed rich and everyone else got fucked over when the Huns started pushing everyone's shit.

The dragons were the only thing keeping everyone in line.

Westeros itself was constantly at war with itself before the dragons came and in the "present" time its almost going back to constant warfare.

The dragons are civilization and yet you want them gone again? For what?
To lose even more knowledge when the ironborn keep attacking the only university in the continent and the next "kingdom" over wants to burn it to the ground for not backing correct king?

>>33557343
There's still the theory that he survived and is now the faceless man.

>>33557318
>who were by and large, the elite of the elite on the continent.
Historically they were, but the Kingsguard by the time of the books were pretty shit barring a few exceptions.

>>33556636
No because rapiers are dueling swords not war swords - theyre totally ineffective against armour. If you spitted a guy he could still hit you and guess what? With a broadsword going through you you'd die before the other guy.

Me I would carry an axe.

>>33561765
>What the fuck is with "medieval" fantasy worlds and always being caught in a state of technological stagnation?
Europe 0-1300. China 1000 BC - 1800 AC. Technological stagnation roller-coaster. If anything explosion of science and technology in Renaissance Europe was exception of civilizations cycles of life and death.

>>33557260
nigga this ain't bloodborne

>>33556636
There is no rapier invented in Westeros. People may carry longsword as maximum carrible self-defense sword what is practical and has historical examples ( Germany and its longsword fencing school).

Rapiers aren't really suited to military use. As your average medieval knight on a battlefield, you will primarily be involved with hacking up large groups of poorly armoured and trained peasant levies. Broad, slashing blades are better suited for this kind of fighting. The rapier is more designed for one on one duels in the civilian world, where both opponents are unlikely to be wearing any armour.

>>33558571

Didn't that one guy in the fighting pits have one? He had Jorah beat until he was stabbed in the back.

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This is vaguely how they should have dressed.

swords are over-represented because they are less dangerous for actors to use than other martial weapons. When you need to do 15 takes, you don't want to be waving around an 8 foot spear for half the day, someone will get stabbed eventually.

>>33563734
>The rapier is more designed for one on one duels in the civilian world
Not only duels abut self-defence against thugs. Rapier has insane reach and this is huge advantage both mechanically and considering psychology of fighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZXGiUghvm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lqAvEgZH1o
Stopping power of rapier can be lacking. But thugs are here to steal your purse not risk their life. Different from battlefield. Also thrust attacks are dangerous with a strength of the baby what is again big plus for civilians whose physical shape can be lacking.

>>33562402
It wasn't made with magic, just rare materials they considered magical/had magical properties. Either way the only reason Wildfyre hasn't proliferated is because knowledge is heavily controlled and restricted in Westeros - see Maesters guild. Only the nobility are allowed a taste of knowledge by the guild and those keen to it or intellectually gifted are usually forced into it one way or another

>>33563808
requesting that BR vid about two guys fighting over a woman with the looser getting his hand chopped off and a slice taken off of the top of his skull.

>>33562103
wildfire isn't a high explosive you fucking idiot
clay is what they used in real life so obviously it works

>>33556636
It's better to use the weapon you're most trained with.

>>33561532
muh reach

>>33561765
I assume its because of the years-long winters and summers that kill off a decent fraction of the population. Hard to have innovation when you spend literally 100% of the Summer saving up food for the next 5 years of winter.

Technology advances anyway, according to the fluff the First Men only had copper or bronze when they came to Westeros 12000 years ago, and Iron working was discovered about 8000 years ago. Its just very slow.

>>33563808
>you will never fight poor niggers in a falafel where they have knives and you have a rapier

>>33558571
Theyre native to the Braavosi in the GoT universe.

>>33556636

Broadswords look cooler and make more sense to the uninformed and oddly liberal audience of Game of Thrones

>>33561765

It's stated in the books how often they go to war. There's a constant state of regime change, plus the harsher weather doesn't make for good progress.

>>33563854
>>33563854
Nope, it was magical.

In the book he talks about how much more powerful it is and how they were able to start producing it way faster than before, because of the dragons being birthed at the end of A Game of Thrones

Before that, they had been producing fake shit that Tyrion threatened them for if he spotted any that didn't flame up during the fight AND they were also using old stored pots from long ago. All this implies that what they had been producing with magic was weak sauce and/or fake.

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Ser, thou art an individual of great mass.

>>33558529
touche

>>33557260
I'm not entirely learned on the subject, so don't meme me, but I'm pretty sure rapiers wouldn't work as general purpose workhorses the way a longsword would. Rapiers are pretty much dueling weapons, and longswords are multi-functional tools ex. thrusting for armor, edge and weight to also cut, etc.

>>33557318
> Robert's/Joff's Kingsguard
> Elite

Ser Barristan and Ser Jaime, the only two genuinely elite Kingsguard left post-Aerys weren't there. They would have destroyed Syrio.

>>33557318
>Meryn Trant
>Elite
>Not picking one 2012+5 ISHYGDDT

>>33556636
thrust are good in 1v1
swings and cuts are better in 1v Many
in a GoT world where you might walk into an ambush at anytime, a long sword is better

also nobody does this in real life but in GoT people always wear armour 24/7

>>33563625
not exactly true, rapiers were used by swedish heavy cavalry they routinely fought armored opponents. you just need stronger and heavier rapiers that's all. and rapiers were actually among the heavies swords btw.

>>33574526
>swedish heavy cavalry
they were using them like tiny lances, not viable unless you have horse momentum

>>33572580
Jaime yes, Selmy no.

>>33574509
>thrust are good in 1v1
>swings and cuts are better in 1v Many
now that's just retarded. in fact you can't really swing around in a line. that's why shields and stabby stabby was the standard for line work.

also consider that rapier was often used with an offhand weapon, a spent gun, a buckler or a dagger, even a cloak draped over the off hand made significant difference in the effectiveness of the rapier.

you stab the other dude dead and he can still swing at you? big deal...

>>33574531
you can't use rapiers from horseback. that was obviously in case they got dismounted.

rapiers were a natural evolution of swords when the metallurgy got good enough to produce them. i'm not saying the previous swords were shit but the rapier was a technological leap and it's combat effectiveness was a step up without doubt.

>>33574548
great, now you have to carry a shield everywhere you go too.

we're talking about everyday self defense, not battle

>>33574562
yeah guess what man at arms usually carried shields because generally the shield was the single most important shit keeping you alive especially before the armors got so good in late gothic that they were redundant. but few could afford said armors so the vast majority used shields unless they were you know using polearms.

with rapiers you only carry a buckler if you plan on fighting, otherwise the dagger will suffice or like i said your cloak.

>>33574557
rapiers are used for unarmoured 1v1 dueling mostly, by the time they come around we have gun powder weapons already so armours not really a thing anymore.

before that people were just bashing each other with hammers in full plates or half swording. so the extra length rapier has doesn't really matter when you're half swording

>>33574587
>rapiers are used for unarmoured 1v1 dueling mostly
they were also used by soldiers fuck off with the stupid civilian shit. they were the best swords in their time. mostly rich fucks could afford them only for a while. but that changed.

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>>33574534
Jaimefag detected.

Selmy was better than everyone save for Dayne, and only because Dayne has a magic space sword.

>>33574548
>now that's just retarded. in fact you can't really swing around in a line
wut

>>33574587
also the half swording didn't happen that much.
if you ever tried you would know how fucking slow and cumbersome it is and how full of openings you are doing that crap. it's perfect for braining an unsuspecting knight showing his back to you i will give you that.

>>33574598
>wut
you know in a line of battle or in any situation your buddies are right on top of your heels. when you are packed tight stabby is safest.

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>>33574598
>1490357209584.webm
I'm cringing hard.

>>33574617
OP specifically stated, you're NOT in a battle.

if you are in a battle, then the sword is a secondary weapon anyway, if you are in a battle, then sure get a bunch of dude with shields or pikes or poleaxes, but put the rapier away

>>33574630
yeah i get confused what scenario we are talking about where.

I should point out that rapiers are a Renaissance weapon and unlikely to be used in the world of ASOIAF. That said, I believe the Braavosi would've used similar weapons that would eventually evolve into the rapier, but at this point have some functionality against armored opponents.

>>33574598
He was also old as fuck in the time frame. I'm not disrespecting the man, I just think he'd lose to Syrio Forel.

>>33557401
>Just remember swords never were the king of the battlefield

fugging hate this meme

>>33574617
Yeah but you're not going to get into a neat formation if someone's jumping you in the streets.

>>33574621
What's to cringe about? It's just a drill to show off the technique.

>>33574634
>He was also old as fuck in the time frame
Fair point, I thought you meant if they were in their prime.

Not sure if Jaime would beat him though. Jaime doesn't really have that many accomplishments to his name other than winning a bunch of tournaments and not immediately dieing against the Smiling Knight.

>>33574634
>but at this point have some functionality against armored opponents.
estocs come to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNZBgu19Ys

I imagine Rapiers were effective in their historical context. Not against men in heavy armour with big fuck off swords. They could almost ignore a fucking rapier and just cut cunts down.

>>33556636
>>33556636
Like guns, swords are tools for a job

A different one is appropriate for a different occasion and demands a different set of skills.

Persinally I'd rather have an armoured bracer on my left forearm and a smallsword and long main gauche for daily wear


A rapier would if correctly handled devastate any of these more cumbersome sword types but it is long and awkward to wear too. A smallsword is very quick and easy to wear

>>33574641
>What's to cringe about? It's just a drill to show off the technique.

what technique? everything is cringy, starting with the dude himself, the way he moves and the dudes trying to simulate whatever long arms those are supposed to be...

>>33574643
no you can't ignore rapier wearing armor where the fuck this meme came from? rapiers weight more than longswords or even katanas on average. they are not the flimsy pieces of wire you see on sports tv.

>>33574641
Literally everyone agrees repeatedly that Jaime was the best swordsman in the land until he lost his hand.

>>33574641
>Yeah but you're not going to get into a neat formation if someone's jumping you in the streets.
when i talk about this shit i tend to think about the musketeers and their way of getting into trouble. yeah sure individual self defense is different.

>>33574651
>A rapier would if correctly handled devastate any of these more cumbersome sword types

talk some more out of your ass? real rapiers are on average the same weight as the 2 handed swords called "long sword (langes Schwert)" in the german school.

>>33574662
>According to Catelyn Stark, Arthur was the deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys II Targaryen's Kingsguard.[5] Ser Jaime Lannister, who idolized Arthur,[6] recalls that Arthur was stronger than him.[7] Jon Connington considers Arthur to have been an efficient commander.[8]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Arthur_Dayne

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>>33574643
Figure out how to kill the knight.

>>33574675
And he was dead you git

>>33574667
>>A rapier would if correctly handled devastate any of these more cumbersome sword typestalk some more out of your ass? real rapiers are on average the same weight as the 2 handed swords called "long sword (langes Schwert)" in the german school.


I own antique versions of all these weapons being discussed child and have studied their use for 30 years. A moving rapier tip or smallsword is incredibly quick and its difficult to plat conan when you have holes in your feet, neck, and forearms

Go and learn fence and how to ride because your internet gleamed knowledge and pathetic dress up and hema shite is about as relevant to the use of antique weapons as the entertaining fantasy that is game of thrones..

>>33574689
a good way would be to stab him in the foot with a quick jab of a spear. or a quick jab against the bevor under the visor. this is a notorious weak point of a bevor+sallet combination.

>>33574703
>I own antique versions of all these weapons being discussed child and have studied their use for 30 years

WOW, John Clements lurks here?

>>33574704
Try again

>>33574656
>what technique?
How to use a greatsword to prevent people from getting close to you

>and the dudes trying to simulate whatever long arms those are supposed to be
They're just meant to be targets to be hit, not a simulation of guys with swords. It's a hitting drill.

>>33556636
Why isn't most everyone wearing at least maille and using polearms?

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>>33574703
>A moving rapier tip or smallsword is incredibly quick and its difficult to plat conan when you have holes in your feet, neck, and forearms
Pssh, nothin personnel, m'lady.

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>>33574729
>How to use a greatsword to prevent people from getting close to you

and you actually believe this is what the vid shows? have you read Diogo Gomes de Figueyredo? have you ever held a sword?

>>33574730
bc authenthic looking maille and other armour is expensive. most of the GoT stuff is termoplastics... also, the audience expects a kind of look/aestethics - most people would be very put off it they wore tights like pic related.

>>33574761
But a brigandine, hose and some plate cuisse is the most aesthetic look
Props for a bascinet too, even more so if a klappvisor

>>33574798
>>33574761
Oh yeah and transitional era best era for aesthetics overall tbqh

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>>33574761
>and you actually believe this is what the vid shows?
It's a 4 second clip. Don't go full HEMAutist.

>have you read Diogo Gomes de Figueyredo?
Ever read Domingo Luis Godinho?

>have you ever held a sword?
Have you ever taken that singlestick out of your ass?

>>33556636
>op attacks guy in armor with his rapier
>rapier bends or deflects off his armor
>dude grabs op's weapon with his gauntleted hand and procedes to punch him in the face with said gauntlet
>while op is writhing in pain from his ruined face armored dude murder strokes him with his hand and a half sword.

>>33574689
You bludgeon him to death with your big fuck off sword

Or you know, if you're a knight, just fucking lance the cunt.

>>33574651
>A rapier would if correctly handled devastate any of these more cumbersome sword types
especially if none of the fuckers can be beaten into wearing proper armor and waltz around without a fucking helmet.

>>33574871
>You bludgeon him to death with your big fuck off sword
if you ever watched Battle of nations, you'd realize that's exceedingly hard to do.

>>33574906
yeah it's actually easier for two guys to wrestle the fuckers to the ground and dagger stab them in the tendies or they eyes whichever is closest.

>>33574906
Isn't the armour in BotN really overbuilt for safety?

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Not GoT, but this guy took up fencing with a rapier, because the majority of people he ended up fighting had no idea how to deal with it.

Then again, wearing armor wasn't really a huge thing in these stories

Enlighten me about swords. Were they any good IRL?

>>33576654
Yeah. Not all swords are the same though. Some swords are very specialised, some are a compromised design and some have a lot of versatility. For most of history they were a side-arm though

>>33576454
it's soft steel not hardened might be thicker than the authentic for this reason but roughly the same weight.

>>33574747

>I did not stab him, it's not true, it's bullshit, I did not stab him!
>I did not
>Oh, Hi mark

>>33556636
>Too lazy and drunk to read whole thread in case the following hasn't already been stated
The Bravosi use rapiers due to their sword fighting style and disdain for heavy armour, preferring speed and agility over protection. But to answer your question from a realistic and GoT perspective it's due to rapiers being pretty shit against plate and heavy mail armour desu. In our world rapiers became a thing roughly around the same time as firearms were already an integrated part of military forces. As heavy armour was starting to become obsolete, as was the need for heavy blades like the Longsword or Bastard sword that was usually required if you wanted to defeat an armoured opponent with a blade.

>>33571438
For thee

>>33578979
>As heavy armour was starting to become obsolete
this retard doesn1t seem to know about plate armor specifically made to stop bullets of that time.

only after center fire rifles became a thing did armor start to become obsolete.

You'd stand out as a Braavosi.

Rapiers are for dueling, and all dueling in Westeros was done to the death, when the Rapier was being adopted by nobles who would only fight till first blood.

>>33579000
Plate armor that was only used for vital organs and to protect against glazing and out of effective range shots. plate Armor was obsolete in the 15th century and it took europe too long to realize that.