Soviet firsts: >composite armour >ERA >smoothbore cannon

>>33506334
>Soviet weapons firsts
Warmongers. What else.

>>33506354
they were terrified of nato first strike for the entire cold war and never had aggressive plans

they needed large and advanced military to defend soviet union peoples and to advance history in great patriotic war part II

>>33506334
>soviet
>era

Pretty sure israeli did it the first time. At least a practical version of era

>>33506334
US had the first true attack helicopter.

>>33506334
The first sea-skimming missile was the RB-04 you stuipid vatnik.

>>33506406
>subsonic
lol

>>33506384
stolen soviet research

>>33506394
wrong

>>33506334
>fully mechanized mass mobilized army

That would be the US by 1942. Everyone else were still using horse-drawn especially the Germans and Soviets.

>>33506417
wrongo bongo

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>>33506417
Guy is probably autistic, probably thinks the soviets won WW2.

>>33506414
Is it really stolen? The physics behind it is pretty much established for quite a long time and it wouldn't take a genius to think that an explosion that would cancel another explosion would make a good tank armor

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>>33506366
Memes: The Post.

>>33506334
Smoothbore cannon was a thing for the last 700 years

>>33506414
What the first attack helo then?

High off boresight missiles and HMDs for fighter aircraft were a soviet invention I believe

>>33506334
Because nato did everything better faster and cheaper.

Hence there was always a supirior counter and making the soviets postbond there attack on west europ.

It was a clear and simpel counter the counter research race.

All the soviets did was steal german designs btw they did nothing on there own.

>>33506625
Not exactly, the US experimented and believe to have produced the first HMDs missiles on the experimental basis with limited use on F-4s, F-15s and F-16 during the late 1970s. There the US moved slowly with the first major applications being used for helicopters with their helicopter displays in the 1980s.

The first operational HMD were used by South Africa and was extremely successful. Soviets rushed their own after their fighters were beaten by the South Africans HMD equipped fighters.

Soviets produced their own in 1985 and were the first to operationally deploy it on a wide scale on fighter jets.

>>33506417
BEF in 1939 was fully mechanised.

>>33506802
BEF was fully motorised in the sense it didn't rely on horses for supply, but it was certainly not fully mechanized

>>33506334
>intermediate cartridge

7.92x33 ???

>>33506417

Isn't that motorised?

A mechanised force uses APCs and/or IFVs, so the USSR with their large numbers of BTR & BMP series vehicles (plus vast numbers of MBTs) were probably the most mechanised Cold War army early on.

>>33506366
>they were terrified
you were not the victim igor.

Also the T95 series was the first tank to use composite armor, so fuck you cyka blyat. Go cry into your borscht after you've realized how low your GDP is.

>>33506624
The first "dedicated" attack helicopter was the AH-1 Cobra which entered production in 1967.

The first "dedicated" Russian attack helicopter was the MI-24 which didn't enter production until 1970. It was designed in response to the successes of the Cobra in Vietnam.

Prior to that there were armed helicopters but these were the first dedicated attack helicopters.

>>33506941
Different nations uses different designations too
In norway mechanized means tracked vehicles, motorized means wheeled. It has more to do with the units speed than armor/firepower here

>>33506334
>composite armour
USA, T-95 prototype
>smoothbore cannon
All early cannons where smoothbore
>operational level of war
Meaningless mumbu jumbo
>intermediate cartridge
Germany
>integrated air defence system
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Integrated_Air_Defense_System
Ready 1962, long before the russians
>airdroppable AFVs
Air landed armor first used by Germany and UK during WWII
>fully mechanized paratroop divisions
>fully mechanized mass mobilized army
Meaningless mumbo jumbo, blitzkroeg first used by Germany and then copied by russia
>sea skimming ASM
Sweden, Rb-04
>attack helicopter
USA, UH-1 Cobra, first dedicated helicopter gunship.

Also things NATO did first and still lightyears ahead of russia;
>AWACS
>EW and jamming
>stealth
>Global Positioning System
>infrared guided missiles
>radar gunsights
>passive night optics
Just to name a few.
As usual, russia is and has always been backwards, crude and savage.

>>33506334

The first Active protection system for tanks. and the first one combat proven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drozd

>>33506366
>they were terrified of nato first strike for the entire cold war and never had aggressive plans

Soviet army:
>airdroppable AFVs
>metric shitton of tanks
>fully mechanised airdrop divisions
>metric shitton of self propelled air defence systems able to keep up pace with tanks and mechanised units
>massive engineering units, bridgebuilding units, fucktons of river crossing equpment
>all IFVs and APCs can swim without preparation (even at cost of survivability) , all tanks equipped with deep wading equipment by default.
>frontal aviation doctrine based on supporting attacking ground units
>unified comand and equipment

NATO:
>ATGMs and light AT weapons as core of infanty equipment
>Tanks literally too heavy for many eastern european bridges.
>doctrine based on delaying, defence , shoot & run tactics , and hopefully counterattacking
>stay-behind units (lolGLADIO and similar)
>Air force doctrine based on interdiction, destruction of enemy bridges, railways, troop concentrations behind front lines
>Each army uses different language and equipment

Yeeeah, remind me again which of these armies is geared toward offensive, and which one is preparing for defense and delaying actions?

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>>33506334

How much do they pay you for shitposting, vatnik? Lies don't defend your country. Nothing will, Russia being the shithole it is.

Soviets never even got to the war part which is good for them - seeing how NATO would massacre them as easily as they would massacre the modern shithole Russia :)

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>>33507047

So much stuff to blow up with nukes in that capability-crippling first strike.

The bad part for Russians is that, even after a nuclear war, they live right next to people who would kill them all for revenge. Which is what would happen.

Not to mention USA would survive, rebuild and then join to finish the fate of vatniks.

>>33506334
>Soviet firsts:

Gulags
Communist empire
Collapsed communist empire
Lada

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>>33506394

Nein!

>>33507230
>attack helicopter

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>>33506366
This, they never knew if there was another fascist regime coming to invade them, so they made a bunch of buffer states between them and western Europe. What if the U.S.A. turned fascist?
>>33506334
>you forgot first space laser
How would the world be if the Soviet Union survived through the internet age?

>>33507003
>Be German
>Analyze combat
>Realize volume of fire is paramount
>Realize rifleman engagement range <300m
>Design strumgewehr

>Be Russian
>Realize Germans understand how war is fought
>Deploy AK-47 in 1952
>Perfect design by 1960
>Realize more sophisticated rounds
>Deploy AK-74 in 1974

>Be American
>Don't upgrade rifle throughout war
>Realize volume of fire is important
>Deploy M14 in 1959
>Realize 762 cartridge weighs too much
>Deploy M16 in 1964
>Gun jams constantly
>Deploy M16A1
>Realize rifleman engagement range <300m
>Fully replace with M4 in ~2006

Took the US until 2006 to deploy an AK equivalent

>>33507340
>Took the US until 2006 to deploy an AK equivalent

you know this will be heavily contested here. there are ppl who claim the 556 is the first major military intermediary cartridge and the US's M16 to be a pioneer here.

>>33507340
The real improvement was the adaptation of an effective high velocity round with a small logistical footprint. No one had anything like the .223 Remington when it rolled into service.

You'd have to go back to the Swiss mondargon to see a similar round and that one was fuckhuge due to powder constraints at the time.

>>33507382

I suppose that the 5.56x45 NATO is the first cartridge of its approximate dimensions (preceding the Warsaw Pact 5.45×39mm, and PRC's 5.8x42mm), which are the three major intermediate cartridges in service with the world's major powers.

Though yes of course, 7.62x39mm and 7.92x33mm are both older intermediate military cartridges

>>33507340
>ignores americans inventing the browning, the revolver, the lever-action and cartridge shotgun

>>33506334

Emphasis on land-based continental total war.

>>33507340
5.56 is the first SCHV cartridge to see mass use

>>33507003
>Meaningless mumbo jumbo, blitzkroeg first used by Germany and then copied by russia
You're right in most other points but fully mechanised is not mumbo-jumbo and the Germans were far, far from even being motorises. Blitzkrieg has no relevance to either.

>>33506354

After the USSR dissolved, documents and planning leaked out and revealed the Soviets were always preparing for a NATO first strike and had no offensive plans of their own.

>>33506334
>intermediate cartridges
>CBM
>attack helicopter

german

>>33508398
It's amusing that you think Soviet records are freely available even today.

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>>33508398

Maybe its because they waged open conflict multiple times?

>>33508398
>it was real in my head

>>33506414
>subsonic
So where the first soviet AShMs.
You are moving goal posts at hyper sonic speed on the other hand.

>>33510815
>You are moving goal posts at hyper sonic speed on the other hand.

lol

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>the fucking commies in this thread
Fuck off back to >>>/leftypol/ faggot

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>>33512095
>commies
>implying commies hasn't written off the Soviet Union as a 'state economy' or whatever they call the entrants on their ever growing list of Not Real Socialisms
What you see here are russian nationalists or Vatnikus Vulgaris as they are called in Latin.
The only thing they have to make life bearable in the hell on earth that is modern day russia is to desperately cling to a perceived glorious past when they could mask russias shittyness behind a potemkin of communism and military power.

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>>33506334

As long as you potatodrinkers agree that we had sloped armor first.

>>33506334
Soviet first:
>collapse and dissolution of the nation state

>>33512909
sloped armour isn't an innovation you stupid retard

>>33512928
false comparison, NATO isn't a nation state

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>>33507272
You need to immediately kill yourself if you prefer Communism to Fascism. And any ethnic Russian who defends Communism is a traitor.

>>33506366
>Great Patriotic War Part II
Is that what the Russkies believe nowadays? Well guess what? You armed up for nothing, your retarded Union fell apart, and you'll never match what they were.

>>33506334
and they still suck in all of it
bwahahahahha

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>>33506334
You're gonna have to sauce those claims, Pavel.

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>ITT a bunch of vatniks don't realize the USSR collapsed nearly 30 years ago

>>33506366
Cough Seven Days to River Rhine Cough

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>>33512930

Then why does everyone praise the T-34 for its "innovative sloped armour" when the French had it as early as the FCM-36?

>>33514952
because sloped armour is the most obvious design feature of the otherwise very innovative and amazing t-34

>>33514952

because 'le epic surender xd'

>>33506334
American weapon firsts:
>nuclear weapons.
>nuclear submarines.
>nuclear aircraft carriers.
why can't Russia into weapons that matter?

>>33514952
You know sloped armor was seriously considered for early battleship armor schemes by numerous nations. As most battleships were envisioned slugging it out at close range, sloping side armor plate was the response.

As the years went by it became progressively obvious that battleships would be slugging it out at very long range. Battle of Tsushima was the bellweather.

>>33515105
Oohhhh dont forget the first combat submarines.

As well the US having the oldest continuous submarine tradition of all major nations.

>>33506334
Russian naval first

>First steel battleship sunk in combat in the history of mankind.

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>>33514971
>the most obvious design feature

Really? I always though the best idea was how a bunch of slavs designed a brilliant machine into and onto which they could place other, somehow dumber slavs to be killed en masse.

>>33515216
are you mental retard?

>>33508428
Which German attack helicopter would that be?

>>33515243
I don't believe so. Why, the Russians need someone to design another tank?

>intermediate cartridge
>intermediate cartridge part II boogagle
Are you fucking stupid? The Nazis had 8mm Kurz before 7.62x39 and the Americans had .223 before 5.45

>>33515360
5.56 is like america desperate attempt to catch up to akm, only for to be absoulutely BTFO by 5.45

years later they are still developing meme cartridge such as .300 memeout in desperate attempt to model subsonic qualities of 7.62x3 and desperately making dozensof 5.56 variants in desperate attempt to emulate properties of 5.45

western small arms are a fucking joke
titling bolt fal and m-14 while soviets use akm AHAHAHAHAH

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>>33515390

soviets were also first to starve millions for the sake of an experimental political philosophy. use those superior small arms advancements to kill yourselves

>>33515133
let us also never forget that when the vatnik has no possible answer, he acts like the question was never asked.

when he has no rational rebuttal, he ignores the argument and hopes no one notices.

>>33515447
there were famines pre-soviets and much less during soviet rule than before you stupid retard

please find me post ww2 famine in ussr

>>33508266
The Germans had fully mechanized and fully motorized divisions and formations. Obviously not the entire army was equipped this way, but several Waffen SS formations were arguably the most mechanized with everyone riding in APCs and apc/afv hybrids capable of engaging tanks.

>>33506334
Soviet First: To lose the cold war.

>>33515428
>can't think of anything
>post meme image

kys fatnick

>>33515467
>post ww2 famine in ussr

Why? Does the Holodomor just not count? That's a conservative estimate of 7 million dead versus the Russian famine of 1921 with a max of 5 million dead.

Saying the number of Soviets who died to famine is irrelevant because more Russians died before then is comparing a span of about 60 years to a span of hundreds. No fucking shit more people died, and yet after the revolution the first thing they do is go and make their own famine because "lol communism"

>>33515577
I did think of something; I thought of how you're a cancerous shitposting vatnik.

>>33515608
please try and redeem hato small arms and I willl laugh in your face

>>33515621
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/31/inrange/

Same test, just follow the links, AR does WAY better, they also tested the VZ-58, and it does just as poorly, it seems the AR-15 handles mud way better.

>>33515621
I'm really not inclined to redeem anything for a slavnigger who can't even work a keyboard

>>33515675
i already know before clicking that link that itsthe mud test
and so what? do you seriously think that is what makes small arms great or shit?

btw just listen to their OWN analysis on the situation before replying

>>33508813
>Maybe its because they waged open conflict multiple times?
Yeah, unlike US in Korea, Vietnam etc

>>33507047
>Yeeeah, remind me again which of these armies is geared toward offensive, and which one is preparing for defense and delaying actions?

Remind me again, what country denied the plan of creating a demilitarized zone in Central Europe? Oh wait, I know, it was USA and West Germany. Protip: google Rapacki plan

>>33507047
Nato is too weak to attack and therefore good guys despite massive nuclear strike policy since before ussr even developed a-bomb

>>33507272
>This, they never knew if there was another fascist regime coming to invade them...

What? Russians have a far larger history of invading their neighbors than being invaded.

>>33507340
M1 Carbine entered service in 1942.

>>33515841
poland isn't a real country moron

>>33506802
Motorized=/=Mechanized

Motorized: all your troops, logistics have some sort of motor vehicle to ride on. Can be a jeep towing a field kitchen or a truck hauling a field hospital

Mechanized: All your troops have access to (tracked) armored vehicles.

So as you can see there ain't no true all mechanized army in this planet because even the us use tins of unarmored trucks. It's always a mix between motorized and mechanized troops

>>33515735
Look dude, the AR also performs better in sand tornados too, the way the gun is designed is to make it so it's harder for shit to get into the action, the AK has a fuckhuge opening, I own both rifles, I love my AK, but I know that if I drop it into the mud, that it might have issue if I do not clear it, if I do with my AR, I know it'll probably be fine, and so far that rings true.

Do you own either rifles btw?

>>33515891
soviet weapons need less maintenance but fair worse in hilariously adverse environment
okay?

but that's not what makes small arms good or bad

>>33512967
The global media is in the hands of former Russian vassal states? That image is retarded.

>>33515841
name 5 wars when russia invaded

>>33515860

Let's go down the list, shall we? I'll even be nice and ignore invading everybody Russia shared a border with in WW1 and most of the WW2 invasions because I think those were actually justified.

1552 invasion of Kazan Khanate
1654 invasion of eastern Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth
1792 invasion of Poland
1799 invasion of Ionian Islands
1799 invasion of Holland
1809 invasion of Sweden
1808 invasion of Swedish Finland
1809 invasion of Sweden
1853 invasion of Moldavia and Wallachia
1855 invasion of Ottoman Turkey
1877 invasion of Ottoman Bulgaria
1878 invasion of Ottoman Turkey
1900 invasion of China
1920 invasion of Poland
1939 invasion of Poland
1939 invasion of Estonia
1939 invasion of Latvia
1939 invasion of Lithuania
1939 invasion of Finland
1956 invasion of Hungary
1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia
1979 invasion of Afghanistan
2008 invasion of Georgia
2014 invasion of Ukraine

>>33515902
You can do a lot more with an AR than you can AK, if you build an AR into whatever you want, not so much with AKs.

Modern AR-15s are just more reliable than AK-47s, you wouldn't know because you're noguns, but I own both, I've trained on the M16A2 long ago,and had first hand experience with REAL akms, it's a lot of myth that the AK can shoot all the time.

AR-15s are a modern platform, the AK-47 was inspired back in the 40s by the STG-44, it's old, it's absolute, that's why the Russians are replacing them.

>>33515975
See >>33516031

>>33507272

First space laser requires it actually reaching orbit...

Why don't they just build an AK, long stroke piston and all, that has the body of a modern AR-like?

Ambidextrous thumb safety, switchable reciprocating charging handle, spring loaded side dust cover, rail extending all the way back over where the old giant top cover was, etc etc etc. The same legendary operating system but with an improved body?

>>33516097
There are already piston Ar-15s

>>33516127
they are shortstroke and are a freaking MEME

>>33516160
No, there are long stroke ARs.

We had GLCM's. Their armor would have been useless.

>>33516031
Ha! >>33515975 BTFO

>>33516234
moron

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>>33506334
Just for you king of the slavbos

>>33506334
As much as I like Soviet equipment and find it underestimated as hell... ERA is an Israeli invention, it was the capture of Blazer-equipped Pattons which triggered the development of the Kontakt ERA. And intermediate cartridges were invented by various European gunsmiths in the early 20th century, and widely adopted in WW2 with the M1 carbine and the StG-44 predecessors.

Oh, and they were the first to have an interceptor that can work as AWACS (MiG-31), to have a plane with positive thrust-to-weight ratio, and some other things I'm not sure of, gotta check.

>>33507003
>hurr german blitzkrieg copied by soviets
Are you aware of stuff like the Rapallo treaty, or the dates of publication of Fuller, De Gaulle, Tukhachevsky's works, compared to Guderian's? Not to forget that the German army had actually low levels of motorisation, inferior in 1940 to the French army, for example. The same French army, which introduced the first APC-equipped units, and sloped armor, after inventing the modern tank structure in WW1 (with a central, 360' rotating cannon armed turret) and creating in the late 19th century smokeless powder and the first modern field cannon (Mod.1897 75mm)

>airdroppable AFVs German and British
The Soviets did it before WW2, and basically invented the airborne division in the early 30s.

>>33507340
>Germans realise that riflemen engage under 300 meters, create StG-44
Gee, I wonder why those stupid Soviets had SMG-armed companies and battalions from mid 1942...

>>33507382
This guy is right, 5.56 was a large step forwards, and this is why the AK-74 was created.

>>33516039
Trying to replace them with new AKs that have more than just a furniture makeover, yes. If Russia was in a better financial situation they'd be blowing ahead of the US (again) in standardized small arms design with their recoil compensating slav magic. Shit, if the Korobov took off they would have embarrassed every other gun designer on the planet overnight for being several decades behind schedule. It is really too bad.

>>33516370
>This guy is right, 5.56 was a large step forwards, and this is why the AK-74 was created.

5.56 was a large step foward many years too late and then immedietly outshined by 5.45

>>33516370
Homegrown intermediate cartridges are just anomalies if they aren't taken on by a major power. The will to adopt and mass produce a purpose-built intermediate rifle round as a standard arm deserves its own credit.

And the .30 carbine was a magnum pistol round, a very old concept. It just so happened that this one came close to true intermediate rifle performance.

>>33516291
Can actual slavs be slavboos?
He is definitely a vatnik, not some contrarian/pol/tard.

>>33516441
Result>intention

Lots of military hardware ended up being successful at things they were not designed for. The T-34 was designed as a cavalty tank to support the breakthrough KV. The StuG III and Panzer IV were support vehicles tasked with delivering high calibre HE to enemy infantry, and ended up being tank killers... while the tank killer Panzer III finished its career as a HE-slinging support tank (Ausf. N). The Su-27 was intended to be an air superiority fighter/interceptor, ended up excelling as the Su-30 and 35S multiroles and 34 tactical bomber. Military history is full of such examples.

>>33516497
>Military history
kys

>>33507047
What is wrong with Gladio ?

>>33515523

Only the first of a (Heer and Waffen-SS) Panzergrenadier regiment's three battalions were mounted in halftracks. The other two were just motorized. Germany simply never had enough Sd.Kfz.251s.

>>33516407
Can you actually point to what makes 5.45 a better cartridge than 5.56?
The 5.45 creates a far smaller permanent wound cavity.

>>33516569
im not going to educate retard for free

>>33506334

First does not mean best m8

>>33507047
>Soviets
High APM skirmisher

>NATO
Turtling noob

>>33516579
>i'm going to spout false bullshit and get butthurt when called out on it
Kys vatnik

>>33516031
1552 invasion of Kazan Khanate-justified by attacks from khanate
1654 invasion of eastern Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth
1792 invasion of Poland
1799 invasion of Ionian Islands
1799 invasion of Holland
1809 invasion of Sweden
1808 invasion of Swedish Finland
1809 invasion of Sweden-listed twice, Sweden attacked Denmark first
1853 invasion of Moldavia and Wallachia-holy war
1855 invasion of Ottoman Turkey-holy war
1877 invasion of Ottoman Bulgaria-holy war
1878 invasion of Ottoman Turkey-holy war
1900 invasion of China-there was no such country as china back then
1920 invasion of Poland-""""Russia""""
1939 invasion of Poland-""""Russia""""
1939 invasion of Estonia-""""Russia""""
1939 invasion of Latvia-""""Russia""""
1939 invasion of Lithuania-""""Russia""""
1939 invasion of Finland-""""Russia""""
1956 invasion of Hungary-""""Russia""""
1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia-""""Russia""""
1979 invasion of Afghanistan-""""Russia""""
2008 invasion of Georgia-Georgia shelled russian peacekeepers
2014 invasion of Ukraine->Burger propaganda

>>33516569
More accurate , and more tumbling causing more damage in terminal balistics

>>33516569
5.56 only destablizes at high speed and only then barely fragments, 5.45 destablizes at any speed in flesh while overstabalize in hard object

>>33516646
>"""Russia""""
If you russians refuse to answer for the crimes of the Soviet Union you also don't get to claim any of its achievements either.
But russia get both, the Soviet Union was a construct by russians for russians to fulfill their dreams of having millions of more civilized people die on their behalf.

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>>33516679
>>33516662
I though the main strenght of the 5.45 was that you get consistent performance regardless of barrel, more or less.
The 5.56 can be incredibly picky when it comes to twist and barrel length, get it wrong and you get shit result.
The permanent wound cavity and fragmentation you get when the stars align is better than pretty much any 5.45 from the looks of it.
Is there any data on accuracy out there? I haven't been able to notice much difference myself when shooting.

>>33506334
Soviet tank design had so many firsts because they had near a 10 year gap technology wise between them and the western allies after WW2.

So while America/Britain were scrambling to build a tank to counter what the USSR had, the USSR were free to develop their designs further and implement new techniques.

>>33516682
>Countries start wars
>Governments making achievments

>>33516757
>The permanent wound cavity and fragmentation you get when the stars align
That's the primary problem.

Also 5.45 has slightly less recoil.

>>33516646
>1956 invasion of Hungary-""""Russia""""
>1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia-""""Russia""""
>1979 invasion of Afghanistan-""""Russia""""

Actually the powers that be specifically used ethnic Russians in these operations, as they would be fighting against a dissimilar ethnic group and thus less likely to hesitate.

>>33506334
yes

>>33516757
>>33516831
>implying Soviets made a better intermediate caliber than America

No, that is impossible. Slavs cannot make anything good.

To bitch and moan about muh 5.45 or 5.56 is pretty retarded when talking NATO vs USSR.
The difference is minimal in any case and the impact of small arms on a large scale conventional conflict is negligible.
I guarantee you that if a god went back to the first gulf war and changed all small arms in the US arsenal for WWII equivalents, nothing would change other than a few more allied casualties maybe.

>>33516929
we're talking about how soviet / pact forces were incredibly progressive and forward thinking compared to nato so it is relevant

>>33516827
In the Soviet union there was not much difference.it was run by russians for russians and russians should be held responsible.

>>33516938
And I thought this thread made it abundantly clear that NATO was leauges ahead in things that actually matters. Sure, the russians could possibly claim some marginal advantage in their cartridge during testing conditions but they used a vastly inferior platform when it came to accuracy and reliability in muddy conditions so the US still came out ahead.

>>33516964
Even at an intellectual level nato was way behind not to mention technology. You are misinformed

>>33516964
>but they used a vastly inferior platform when it came to accuracy and reliability in muddy conditions so the US still came out ahead.

you are trash

>>33506334
>operational level of wwar

Called grand tactics by the rest of the world before the USSR was even an idea in Marx's head.

>>33516972
>Called grand tactics by the rest of the world

lol shut up

>>33516980
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_level_of_war

Lol nou

>>33516987
I don't think 'manauvers of troops not tactically engaged' is really 100% applicable, not to mention ignorant of the historical background behind the advent of different 'operational' doctrines

>>33516994
They were quite clearly talking about the political applications of troops, and how it effects war.

I'm sorry Vasily, you can't rename something and then claim you invented it.

>>33516970
Is this the same Russia that disliked having educated officers as it might spread distrust of the Soviet system in the military? This this the same Russia that was literally decades (and still is) behind even the most basic NATO tech? There's a reason Russia and China both have memes stemming from their quality control.

>>33506634
I'm going to assume English is not your first language.

>inb4 drunk

>>33506334
>smoothbore
Muzzle loaders
>icbm
German v2 rocket
>intermediate cartridges
German kurtz round
>operational level of war
What autism is that?

>>33517017
>>intermediate cartridges
>German kurtz round
Italians did it first.

>>33517025
Pasta is not a round

>>33516970
Russia was hopelessly behind in aerial warfare, EW, economy, tech sophistication and quality of living. You still are as a matter of fact.
Educate yourself.

>trash
A rifle with short sight radius and a huge gaping hole allowing for ingress of mud and dust is what's trash. So are you.

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>>33516972
>USSR was even an idea in Marx's head
kek

>>33516947
>it was run by russians for russians
Oh you're retarded

>>33517034
>controls their empire from moscow with an iron fist
>all the best gear is ear marked for ethnic russian units
Kys
Trying th rewrite history don't work when there are millions still alive who lived under the russian tyrants.

>>33515812

BS. The Soviet knew that NATO could have destroyed them conventionally withing weeks during the 80s, once NATO started spending big. They are still shitting their pants when they hear the name Ace Lyons. Northern Fleet would have been lost in the first week entirely according to their own analysis:

https://youtu.be/r98lEzIlp8k?t=19m38s

>>33517649
lol you're living in a fantasy land dood
>it was real in my head!

>>33517649
underage out

>>33517671
>>33517736
Triggered

>>33506414
First era was german. You can look it up on below the turret ring. Same Goes for first APS.

>>33516291
Kinda surprised the mig25 is that high

>>33514952
Because of the "History" channel

>>33515390
Jesus, we are reaching levels of shitposting thought to be impossible by man.

>>33516646
Just because they were "justified" didn't mean Russia wasn't the aggressor retard.

>>33516370
>I wonder why those stupid Soviets had SMG-armed companies and battalions from mid 1942...
Because soviets lived in the meme land. Literally. They unironically believed that Germans run assault units armed with nothing but SMG and during attack these units are walking and firing from the hip non stop suppressing and destroying soviet defenses with volume of automatic fire. i am not joking here. This meme went official. Most post war memoirs and then movies based on them included this meme. Steady marching German soldiers armed with only SMGs and soviets solders awfully underarmed with pathetic Mosins dying with no hope to fight such sort of fire power. If were are talking "early war", "late war" soviets were all armed PPSh themselves in their meme. PPSh was memetic symbol of new down and victory.

Obviously with such strong meme and penis envy for German SMGs Stalin himself ordered to create soviet SMG only armed companies to counter German superiority in this field.

>>33516569
>Can you actually point to what makes 5.45 a better cartridge than 5.56?
Ak-74 has userfull automatic fire. Combination of lower recoil of 5.45, ROF and muzzle brake.
M4 remains a semi automatic gun.

5.45 7N6 is made from cheap and abundant steel, what is big plus for wartime mass production. Despite using mostly less dense steel 53 grain 7N6 bullet has better BC than 62 grain M855 due to its excellent aerodynamic form. In fact 7N6 form factor 0.929 is in the region of the low drag match sniper rounds despite it is cheap stamped shit.

>>33516662
>>33516831
Ignore these retards pls.

>>33506334
The first attack helicopter was the AH-1 Cobra which first flew in 1966.

>>33516291
holllyyy shit slavs btfo

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>>33516370
>As much as I like Soviet equipment and find it underestimated as hell... ERA is an Israeli invention
Nope. The Slavs were tinkering with using explosives as part of protection since the 1940s I think. Pretty obvious why it wouldn't be a neat fit back then. What the Israelis contributed to was demonstrating the effectiveness of ERA in combat conditions as well as alleviating most of the safety concerns regarding it use. The Soviets were actively searching for the kind of self-contained ERA design that would limit collateral damage not just to potential infantry in the vicinity but nearby equipment including adjacent ERA blocs. They were only 2 years from said goal after deploying K-1.

>it was the capture of Blazer-equipped Pattons which triggered the development of the Kontakt ERA.
After the demonstration of ERA in Lebannon, Russian planners deployed their own Kontakt EDZ armour starting with the T-80BV in 1983. Kontakt EDZ was not a copy of Israeli Blazer ERA. Kontakt was developed by the Soviets cocurrently with Rafael's developments, but was not initially fielded because of concerns over safety. This was in 1978.

>>33517030
Again the "short sight radius" meme. The AK has a longer sight radius than the M4 you mongoloid.

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>>33518256

>>33506334
>intermediate cartridge
There is a long line of contenders for this none of them are the Soviet union. Who was so late to the party their first real intermediate was in 1947.

>>33518299
7.62x39 was developed in 41/42 and completed in 43. Irrelevant as other intermediate calibers predate it.

>>33506949
I love the way the Russians saw the success of US helicopter doctrine and thought "wow Ivan those helicopters make troops be of traveling good, but those attack helicopters be of killing good" "Sorry Boris not enough ruble for two" "No, Ivan but enough for one."

>>33518323
>>33518299
Unless you're desperate enough to count .30 Carbine as an intermediate cartridge the 76239 beat the 55645 here.

>>33518324
I wonder if you think the Merkava is shitty too becaus it does tank+transport....

>>33516757
>>33518039
Stop, you guys are making me want to go out and buy something in 5.45.

>>33518292
https://youtu.be/59ve65mBzYk

>>33518346
I want a 16" mini-nugget in 5.45.

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>>33507057
Have you noticed something in your picture here? No niggers or kikes.

>>33518395

All i see are niggers.

>>33516291

hahahahahahahahhaha

>russian aviation """""""""QUALITY""""""""

>>33518418
Oh look, Bubba has screwed up his moonshine again.
Hopefully he'll lose just his remaining few braincells and not his sight, going blind would stop him from shitposting.

>>33518466

Im sorry i dont speak jiggaboo, can you please try again?

>>33518344
Packing 3-4 infantry jews into the back of a tank at the expense of dumping all the ammo does not exactly mean it can be used as a transport...
Its not the first time someone stuffed a lot of jews into a tight space, but still..

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>>33506334
>Operational level of war
>first "invented" by the soviets
Please tell me you're for real

>>33506334
>why was soviet forces so much more progressive and advanced than nato?
hmmm..... I wonder
>inspection/unveiling time
>"No worked? HAHA Go to Gulag."
seems like it was a pretty strong motivator

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>>33518395

No brown niggers, but 100% white niggers.

Can you imagine how bad things must be when you are white and STILL become a nigger?

This is your fate when living in Russia.

>>33506334
Russian first
>bombers that explode violently without getting shot or even leaving the ground
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0gXlXIzAVBE
The russian """"quality"""" has always been horrible as soon you leave the extremely simple mechanical designs.

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>>33517791
Not those guys, but yeah I'm triggered. NATO was in serious danger of losing all of Europe in a matter of days because of the lack of American troops in Europe in force. Our doctrines from AirLand Battle back are aimed at this issue. Our equipment--A-10, Apache, etc--is aimed at this issue. Our exercises and troops training--REFORGER, large portion of the military is Airborne/Air Assault qualified, etc--is aimed at this issue.

Also, this thread in a nutshell:

https://youtu.be/IC6W8J0j8Co

>>33518039
The there are variants of the M4 that are full auto. Others are burst. It's more of a doctrinal thing. Marksmanship>spray and pray

>>33516381
And today we learned why having a politically unstable country is a bad thing.

Yet all the white trash on this board is on board with the destruction of America through partisan zealotry and the utter refusal to compromise.
From 2008 to 2016 the democrats learned that republicans would never compromise, and now the democrats don't compromise either.

America is fucked.

>people outside America don't know about America!
>Americans are extremely ignorant
According to this logic nobody has any clue what's going on

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>>33519332
>Marksmanship>spray and pray
Read a book.
>inb4 Americans can't into science
No surprise here.

>>33507003
>Ready 1962, long before the russians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowding_system

>>33519739
What's your contention, precisely? That American doctrine isn't more marksman oriented, or that marksmanship is not as important as volume of fire?

>>33507340

>Deploy AK-47 in 1952
>Only in 2006 US fully adopt the M4

Tell me slavic monkey if all it matters if full replacement why are there still Mosin Nuggets and Nugget Revolvers still in use by the Russian Government and were in use by the USSR before it's collapse?

Let me guess when USSR doesn't fully replace their inventory it's "being efficient" but when the US does "it's stuck in the past"

>>33519514
The democrats never compromised throughout the 2000's to 08, to say it only started recently is absurd.

>>33519739

>Read a book.

Outside of suppressive fire anyone with a brain will tell you that all you need is semi.

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>>33515286
fa 223

>>33520582
>this is what americans unironically believe

>>33520623

That is definitely an attack helicopter.

I can tell since it has no gun, no rockets, not missiles or mounts for gun pods and other munitions but since it's German now it magically is.

>>33520636
>soldiers go on helicopter
>get off
>attack stuff

or

>get on
>shoot things

>>33515918
He was talking about the Jews.

>>33520635

>My memes mask my lack of arguments

Please tell me who in their right mind would use full auto for anything besides suppression. Because mag dumping in a few seconds, with a low ass chance to hit and lack of means to try again once you hear the click click and having to contend with the recoil produced by your stupidity is not a good idea.

>>33520649

This is a new level of retard even for a tripfag.

>>33520649
Ok, so it also needed to have seen actual combat. Also, the definition of attack helicopter is using weapons mounted on it to support operations, including transport helicopters.

>>33520677
i think you're retarded

>>33520730
it is a transport helicopter, but used as a general purpose one because muh late war

>>33520661
>what is short bursts

>>33520732

>lower case I
>no punctuation

You should stop looking in the mirror.

>>33520741
It wasn't used at all. However this one was used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_R-4

>>33520744

>What if we made it so that even a dumbass muhreen can do short bursts with ease
>Still a fuck ton of recoil, and no more than maybe two round bursts will be on target.

>>33520753
>i should structure my shitposts like a paper i put effort into
fuck off autist

>>33520761
It was used, but not as much as the Sikorski.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Achgelis_Fa_223

>>33515390
The gov aint desperately making shit, people with money and a surplus of freedom inovate new variants all the time for shits n gigs. Go stand in line for your potatoe water.

>>33520819

>I shall now call you autistic for pointing out that I have shit grammar and punctuation

If by now you don't instinctively hit caps lock and the punctuation marks when needed then you are beyond plebeian.

>>33520819
Yeah, I know it was a thing. But it doesn't count as it's not an attack helicopter, that goes to the Cobra.

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>>33520762
>>Still a fuck ton of recoil
No surprise here. M16 has nearly double recoil and 30% more ROF over AK-74. Automatic fire is not easy to tame. You need science. Americans failed to do that so they stick to semi auto sporting rifles. BTW they still use automatic/burst fire from bipod equipped guns in military. Again no surprise here bipod cut automatic fire dispersion 3-5 times and it becomes viable even from heavy recoiling weapons.

>>33520852
I'm phoneposting, I'm on the toilet at work
It's not bad grammar, I didn't misspell anything and you're getting worked up about something that doesn't matter. That is why I called you an autist, autist.