Germany is given three Virginia-class submarines with experienced

>>33466743
They would run out of torpedoes before they made significant impact to allied shipping, and advances would be made in ASW. You'd find the computers and other onboard systems would be more useful to their war effort than their combat capabilities.

>>33466743
Germany reads about how they lose horribly and calls off the war. Instead they reverse engineer what they can to gain economic power in the new timeline.

>>33466787

>They would run out of torpedoes before they made significant impact to allied shipping

Nonsense. You wouldn't waste high-tech torpedoes on merchant ships. You'd use them on battleships and aircraft carriers so that the German surface fleet can raid the Atlantic unopposed.

>>33466743
Germany would send them to the 1937 fleet review for the coronation and everyone would collectively shit a massive brick and give Hitler basically whatever he wanted. With France and the UK on friendly terms he would have no need to invade them, thus keeping the US out f the war, and in the east he would just take whatever he wanted without having to worry about a second western front. Even if the west had to begrudgingly tolerate Nazi expansion by the time they achieved enough technological parity to counter the submarines nuclear weapons would be invented and MAD would protect world peace.

Tens of millions of Europeans would still be alive.
The continent would not be so thoroughly destroyed.
Holocaust would never happen, jews would accepted as refugees into the west.
Communism would be crushed forever.
The empires of France, Britain and the Netherlands would still exist.
America would go on in happy isolation, free from entanglement in ideological wars that do more harm than good.

It would be the best timeline.

>>33466743
Given pre-WW2? Say 1937?

The Germans park them in a submarine pen under extreme security
One in a covered dry dock.
They copy all operations & technical manuals for dispersement to their submarine design firms.
They dismantle the dry docked submarine carefully documenting everything.
The experienced crew of the dismantled submarine are debriefed and interrogated for everything they know about the submarine, and then are turned into instructors at their U-boot Academy.


Hitler and Donitz cream their pants repeatedly with the thought of nuclear power, computers, super advanced submarines, sonars, and torpedoes that far outperform anything on the design boards around the world.

Hitler postpones any thoughts of invasion and gives Donitz a 3,000% increase in funding for the U-boot fleet, canceling all big ship construction.
The Soviet Union then invades Europe a little later, and the highly advanced German Reich becomes the hero of our new future.

>>33466847
>German surface fleet
lol

>>33467218
What?

They had plenty of E-boots, corvettes, light cruisers, not to mention the few big gun haulers.. they can kill merchant boats once the Uber-U-boots kill the Royal Navy's big hitters.

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german U-boats were often attacked by radar-equipped flying boats as soon as they left base

even with ESM a big nuke boat is about as agile on the surface as a 600lb lardass on an innertube and can't dive to (literally) save its life

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>>33466743
Why are there so many threads about ww2 era Germany getting modern stuff. Why is it only Germany

>>33467416
>what if America had a modern carrier group would they still win the war?

>>33467388
>german U-boats were often attacked by radar-equipped flying boats as soon as they left base
only later in the war
guess why
we cracked german code. we knew when the subs left, where they went, where they surfaced. everything.
also these
>>33466860
>>33467200

>>33467341
>corvettes, light cruisers
Big Gulps, huh? Welp, see ya later.

>>33467416
because is the day of the month when /pol/ likes to masturbate trier german power fantasy, give it few days we will be back on sucking putins dick

>>33467341

That's what they'd do. Use the limited supply of Mark 48 torpedoes to eliminate as many British capital ships (BB, BC, CV) as possible and then you can just have Bismark and Tirpitz raid the Atlantic non-stop without any serious opposition.

>>33467200
You mean
>The Soviet Union then invades Europe a little later, and still crushes Germany because what the fuck is a submarine going to do against a land power?

>>33467416
Same reason in all the hypothetical WWIII threads the US/NATO is never the agrressor

>>33466743
>thinks submarines today are immune to ASDIC and depth charges

>thinks a modern submarine can just 'find' enemy capital ships without the information provided by modern aircraft, satellites and HUMINT.

>>33467479
you missed the part where they have a tech advantage now and have to give absolutely zero fucks about their rear.

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>>33467479
>nuclear power
A compact submarine reactor would advance German scientific and industrial capacity by magnitudes.
They no longer need coal for electricity.
They can use DU in AP rounds or armor.
Medical Isotope production.
Etceteras.

>modern transistor electronics
This basically made the USA the super power it is today, in the 80's. Give the University of Berlin a couple months to figure it out by reverse engineering.
I said 1937, Stalin didn't plan on invading Europe until 1946~48 originally, WW2 and shit messed his planning up.
This gives Germany time to figure out this gift from the future.

>the advanced explosives & guidance systems in the torpedoes.
This shit right here is another big win. Insensitive Explosives would make German ships / tanks / artillery safe as fuck to operate, no turrets or ships exploding when struck and the ammo cooks off.
Then the gyroscopes are so advanced that they make the WW2 era versions look like cavemen clubs.
All capable of being reverse engineered in the years leading up too the Soviet Invasion.

>>33467579
>modern subs don't have insanely good passive sensors that can detect ships hundreds of miles out.

The other stuff is just helpful.

>>33467635

You're vastly deluded about the capabilities of modern sonar.

>>33467621
You would also have a compliment of small arms on the ship and modern diving gear. So this gives MP5's, M9/M11's and M4's to Germany. Even if they can't reproduce exactly, they can take the basic design and have semi/full auto weapons at the start of the war.

Then you also got the optics of the submarine where you'll possibly get NV/IR introduced to German scientist at a much much earlier stage.

>>33467621
>>33467754


You realise the concepts of these things were understood back then?

It was the ability to produce the components needed that's the problem. learning the process of building a computer processor is far more difficult than learning how it works.

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>>33467621
>>33467810

Transistors aren't easy to miniaturize. The machinery needed to produce processors is astonishingly precise and needs a previous generation of precision computing and machines to produce.

Sorry to say but the Nazis won't be cranking out modern computer equipment. That said, they WOULD likely be able to crank out primitive computer equipment- like the kind we saw on the A-5 Vigilante in its avionics systems. They'll be ahead of the curve on electronic storage though- so they'll have memory on the order of ~2-5 MB in solid state right out of the gate.

It doesn't sound like much but that there improves the accuracy of the V1 and V2 dramatically. It improves bombing accuracy. It means wondrously advanced avionics for their planes. It means fantastically accurate artillery.

Accelerometers and optical gyroscopes from the sub also mean you can start with stabilized guns for tanks.

Then you get into metallurgy. What you'll learn from the reactor alone is insanely valuable. Same goes for the kevlar, gallium arsenide, etc. found on-board.

So solid state radars were only made possible with computing- the ability to electrically steer radar. The Nazis now have primitive computing and could manufacture simple semiconductor processors within a few years. This means radar for things like aircraft, ships, artillery, etc. is all far more capable now. German counter-battery fire will be dead-on accurate.

Let's not forget the turbofan engine in the Tomahawks. That alone will give them a leap in jet engine technology.

Were I Hitler, I'd take my time reverse-engineering this stuff and stave off war at all costs- no matter how hard Poland and Churchill try to provoke me.

The civilian applications of this stuff shouldn't be forgotten. Germany could pursue
>nuclear power
>consumer goods (namely, I'm thinking CRT televisions- which can be made with old-school vacuum tubes for export) like nylon stockings

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>>33468008
>more consumer goods like car tires based on the rubberized coatings for the sub
>fiber optics
>plastics, so many kinds of plastics!
>monochrome LCD's
>LED's
and now we get to the things on that boat that'll ensure the German economy is big enough to compete with that of the USA:
>drugs
The ship's stores of medication will make Germany monstrously rich.
>statins
>antibiotics (everything from penecillin to 4th generation fluoroquinolones)
>anti-convulsives
>antivirals
>PDE5 inhibitors (viagra, cialis - they're likely on ship for cardiac issues, no penis problems)
>likely some first-line chemotherapeutics like cisplatin and paclitaxel

And then there's the BIG bonus here: the vaccines the ship likely carries.
>Germany was a world-leader in X-ray crystallography and virology
>examining these will reveal protein sheaths of viruses but also LOTS of viral DNA
>you'll notice these amino acid structures in a consistent shape makes up a ton of these medicines
>you'll wonder what the hell they are
>you're VERY likely to discover the double helix of DNA if you keep going along these lines
You're also likely to discover vaccine adjuvants- which will be huge for improving the efficacy of vaccines.

Really, were I Hitler in this scenario, I'd build the most advanced economy on the planet and export consumer and medical goods to make insane amounts of money. In addition to further automating the German economy and introducing industrial computing early... sit back and enjoy economic dominance.

Naturally, nuclear weapons that will inevitably come from the reactor's reverse-engineering will be used as part of a massive surprise attack on the Soviets to completely crush Communism as soon as I'm ready.

I love these threads.

Post more!

Pretending that the war is already on and Germans aren't going to be able to reverse engineer the subs for whatever reason, its obvious the subs alone completely change the battle of the Atlantic.

Britain would starve, no lend-lease would get through to USSR, the Royal Navy would be obliterated and there would really be no hope ever to pull over Overlord with those monsters lurking around. Absolutely zero hope of every detecting let alone sinking one of them with WW2 techonology. Germany could literally park one outside NYC harbor launching tomahawks and sinking anything dumb enough to try leaving and it would be the USA in a panic.

>>33467635

try 20nm in best possible conditions

8 nuclear subs couldn't find a single argie 1940s ghetto carrier in a 500nm area and would have never found the Belgrano without Nimrods providing ELINT and Maritime Search support

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>>33467579

>Depth charges

I would think that the cruising depth of a Virgina-class would be far too low for depth charges to be effective.

>thinks a modern submarine can just 'find' enemy capital ships

British battleships still need to go back to port occasionally to re-supply, correct? All the submarines need to do is lurk within torpedo range of probable docking sites. Modern torpedoes can reach out a very long distance. Alternatively, use friendly battleships as bait. Send the Scharnhorst or Gneisenau out into enemy territory with a Virginia lurking nearby. When Rodney and Nelson come to collect rent, greet then each of them with a Mark 48 torpedo.

>>33466743
they would fuck shit up for a while...anything that came near them until late late war would just get wrecked. but the real advantage would be the knowledge of the crew...and if there were personal computers still on board. the entire history of ww2 would be available to the german high command and would be worth a thousand subs.

>>33468545
theres usually some turbofaggot with a copy of Wikipedia on their laptop

Qualified submariner here.

>Run out of torpedos
>Not enough infrastructure to maintain said boats
>Even the most seasoned crew wouldnt make it longer than 3 months without replenishment at sea
>SSBN sailor here but still applies. REFIT

if it were a non Jimmy Carter Seawolf Class submarine it might have changed the tide of the war but not by much.

Germans used supply U-boats throughout the war pretty effectively. They called them milk cows or something, thing would probably barely ever have to come to port. If they did have to bring them it would under cover of nightfall into the pens at Lorient, which were basically indestructible during wartime.

>>33467479

The SU would have collapsed in '42 without Allied convoys in the Arctic.

>>33466743

They sure would have won WW1. British Grand Fleet reduced to a duck shooting contest.

Now can there be a writethread about how said submarines get sent back in time and/or how they get captured

>>33467670

Sonarman here. You'd be real surprised how far out things can be detected, especially in the right conditions. My boat uses the most modern arrays and we've basically decided Lockheed has mastered the dark arts, it's insane what they can do.

>>33468090

This fucking guy thinks there's drugs other than epinephrine, motrin, penicillin, and albuterol on board a sub. Nigga, docs aren't fucking doctors, they're corpsmen. They aren't performing surgery or treating advanced conditions. They have the bare minimum equipment necessary to keep a crewmember alive until they're retrieved via boat or helo, and penicillin for the bullshit sailors get from fucking ladyboys.

Can't fucking believe you think we'd have dick pills onboard lmao you have no idea how many guys would be lined up begging doc for that shit.

>>33468804

The real advantage would be in surveillance. A modern nuke boat could loiter in an area for months and report the locations of every surface ship and submarine and their activity. WW2 era active sonar was balls and all a Virginia would have to do is dip under the layer and ta-da we are invisible.

Seawolf class submariner here btw. Could definitely have easily slipped by shipyards/naval bases undetected and royally trashed everything docked there without opposition.

>>33467670
Well, there are weird phenomena at work. There's such a thing as convergence zones, which somehow work in such a way that sounds in these rings will be heard fairly well, allowing passive sonar to detect things from ludicrously far away. I don't pretend to understand why it is that way. Not to mention the already quite extensive range of detection, of course.

>>33470312
I mean, PDE5 inhibitors ARE prescribed for pulmonary hypertension. They aren't just dick pills.

I mean, I'd imagine a sub has a decent range of medications for dealing with various problems. It's not like a decent supply would take up that much space. At any rate, even a relatively small cross-section of modern medications would prove really useful for jumpstarting a pharmaceutical industry.

>>33466743
Germany still looses the war they start. They'd sink more stuff, but Hitler still finds a way to fuck up. You could give Hitler three nuclear armed boomer subs and he'd still find a way to loose the war.

>>33470544

Dynamics of sound are covered in RP33, which is unclassified, so we can talk about it. Basically, sound "bends" in the water towards the point of minimum sound speed. Sound speed increases with pressure, so as it drives deeper, it tries to curve back up to the surface. CZs form when water depth and sound speed line up just right for the wave to curve all the way back up to the surface without striking the bottom first and being scattered. The wave is focused at CZs, so you can go from hearing nothing to having a merchant blaring the fuck in like he's on top of you, then back to nothing, because typically you only sit in the convergence zone for a brief period of time. In the right conditions, waves can have multiple CZs, the 2nd and 3rd ones being upwards of 100k to 200k yards away.

>>33471873
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation, anon! This has been bothering me ever since I was a small child playing Harpoon with my father and his friends!

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>>33466860
So much this.

>>33470662

You imagine wrong. There's no vaccines and shit onboard, there isn't blood pressure meds or whatever. Sailors are supposed to get all of their vaccinations prior to getting underway, and there's a whole host of conditions that are submarine disqualifying because we can't afford to stock medication for people. Once again, meds onboard are for lifesaving purposes only. On my boat, doc doesn't have a space, he works out of countermeasures. He has a tiny locker for meds and gear, that's it. The GN I was on had a doc space, but the cabinets were filled with epinephrine and motrin.

Subs are not how you are describing. They are designed with mission and equipment in mind first, not crew. Space is an absolute luxury, no room at all for blood pressure meds and all that garbage.

>>33472122
But they have room for separate quarters for women, I understand. How's that working out in practice?

Use the Vertical Launch tubes to fire cruise missiles at the US. Provided that Hitler isn't picking the targets. They might actually be able to cause significant damage to ports, ship yards, fuel dumps, etc.

of course Hitler being the idiot lance corporal that he is. orders the nuclear reactors rigged to meltdown and then have the submarines explode in ports of major east coast cities. hoping to spread radioactive material all over the cities.

>>33472122
the officer's mess is usually also the surgery room.

>>33467416
Time machines

>>33472122
Gotcha. At any rate, the small assortment of life-saving meds are still a treasure-trove for chemists. It's not quite as good as I imagined, but it's still breddy gud.

Also, being a IDC on a sub must be HELL given the limited equipment and supplies. It makes the people who fill the role all that much more impressive.

>>33472146

Not sure. The GN I rode had female officers but no enlisted females yet. Soon after I left, a nuke chief got kicked off the boat for fucking one of them, so it's not really working out that well as far as I know. There's other stories, but they are covered up crazy fast, the Navy doesn't want anyone to know their experiment (and the millions possibly billions spent on retrofitting for females) is leaning in the direction of being a huge failure.

>>33472150

Lmao what. You can't meltdown the reactors on command. And even in the crazy one in a million chance it happens, the boat is designed to dump the entire reactor assembly straight down to the depths if it gets too hot. There's definitely no way to make it explode, and it water is an excellent shield against radiation so it wouldn't irradiate shit.

>>33467416
There's been plenty of threads about the US getting modern shit to slap the japs shit around before Pearl Harbor.

>>33467621
>Upholder class

All 4 of those subs are in RCN service as Victoria Class, and are complete shit.

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>>33466860

>>33467479
virginias have tomohawks

Anyone here a submariner?
A lot of good points in this thread. If Germany had gotten those subs it would've been over before it started.
I was on a Los Angeles class and those fucking Virginias are quiet as fuck. They can do all kinds of crazy shit I can't even legally say, and I know that a WWII era depth charge would be laughable.
They would be able to track anything and everything within a VERY large area, and take it out without any hassle.

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>>33468008
>Were I Hitler, I'd take my time reverse-engineering this stuff and stave off war at all costs- no matter how hard Poland and Churchill try to provoke me.

This right here. Keep this shit quiet, and take a decade or 2 in preparation. Typical old school German skill and hard work would make for some frightening toys.

The biggest challenge to this is would be making Hitler listen to his advisers, bite his tongue, and leave all the undesirables ungassed to avoid international attention. I really see Hitler as the weakest link in this equation.

>>33474603
You get what you can afford.That's what you get for commissioning submarines that entered service as essentially auxiliary forces 25 years ago

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>>33466743
The UK has Astute and rek's them.

We then launch cruise missiles and kill stalin and hitler, then destroy the concentration camps and the jews.

No ww2, no cold war, no jews, the sun never sets on the British Empire. checkmate wheraboo

>>33467429

>we cracked german code. we knew when the subs left, where they went, where they surfaced. everything.

This, allied espionage was god tier, especially in the later stages of the war.

>>33475871
even if the allies knew generally where it was they'd never be able to sink it.

>>33477527
Whatever they send to try winds up at the bottom of the ocean. And its not like you can move New York City harbor because codebreakers warned you about an attack there.

>germans reverse-engineer nuclear reactor
>create dirty but likely non-fission bombs
>England is destroyed by dirty bombs
>Russia is heavily impacted but due to larger territory not destroyed. Barbarossa is recalled as Russia is considered unfit for occupation
>America enters the war in Europe far earlier after seeing use of dirty bombs in England and likely Africa
>develops nuclear bombs much faster
>Dresden is the first target of nuclear attack, a few months before what would be Hiroshima + Nagasaki
>Japan later directly surrenders after the threats to bomb them, causing a Bolshevik-esque political revolution inside the country
>Germany has reverse-engineered nuclear reactors at this time, making them the strongest nation militarily
>under threat of nuclear annihilation the U.S. and Germany enter a Cold War
>England is returned to sovereign status but is racked with radiation in old city centers
>France is separated between Vichy and France proper, similar to East/West Germany irl
>Communism as a concept is almost entirely replaced by ideological Fascism
Mite b cool

>>33474575
Virginia Class subs are designed to never need refueling. you have to cut the sub open to get the core out.

you've been watching too much star trek. if you think a nuclear ship can just eject a core.

>>33477684
Range unlimited except food

>>33477673
This is, of course, on top of Germany having impenetrable sea defenses for decades

>>33477699
which can be delivered pretty easily by the conventional U-boat fleet.

>>33477727
unless the Virginia has anti air missiles in the VLS. it is just as vulnerable on the surface as UBoats. Resupply would involve surfacing and being parked for hours. Which would have them spotted.

>>33477527

a 1942 onwards Liberator or RAF flying boat might might be able to especially with a destroyer giving Huff-Duff fix as a starting point

>air search radar
>crude MAD
>crude sonar bouys
>depth charges capable of nailing a sub as deep as 300ft
>based FIDO

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>>33466860
As a Dutchman, I feel so goddamned sad this did not happen.
>mfw non white birth rates here
>mfw all major cities are almost majority non Dutch
>mfw English is being spoken in shops on the regular
>mfw all this unfounded guilt and unbridled consumerism
>mfw no Dutch Jonathan Bowden
>mfw immigrants are still being brought in even with 70% unemployment rates amongst some and we are supposed to celebrate 1.5% economic growth.
I am going to change this shit though.
If any Dutch anons want to meet up, come to Den Haag plein this evening, get in the 8ch net /meadhall/ thread. I'm done with this shit.

>>33472552
Wow. Youre a faggot AND youre illiterate...

>>33467416
Because they lost.

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>>33477992

for anyone interested here is a 1944 wire recording of two Avengers from USS Bogue fucking uo some nip submariners with sonorbouys and an acoustic homing torpedo

https://maritime.org/sound/sonobuoy2/record19.mp3
https://maritime.org/sound/sonobuoy2/record20.mp3

>[Explosion]
>[in-rushing water]
>OH we got that son of a bitch

>>33477992
Zero chance they even detect it. And any countermeasure that includes a WW2-era surface vessel is fundamentally flawed because the submarine will just sink that vessel before it can do anything.

>>33477815
so the allies have about a 5 hour window every 90 days to even have a crack at the sub? in the vastness of the Atlantic (they could feasibly do resupply anywhere within range of the regular U-bat too) the odds of them pulling it off are almost zero.

The only real hope is that the sub needs to go back to Lorient for repairs and the allies find a way to destroy the sub pens there, but its been more than 70 years now and those pens still exists so I kinda doubt their ability to pull that off.

>>33466860

>>33466860

Hitler wanted the world though. He wanted to eventually sail with or without england, to the USA in a final fight for world conquest.

I hate it when nazi sympathisers think that there could have been a peacfull nazi germany. It was an all or nothing thing, and they would have enslaved and killed millions. They deserved to be beat and hung.

The only real race traitor is the faux nazi neckbeards from north america and england who think the germans should have won. These are the people who would have been forced to aid in in creation of the german Lebensraum

>>33466743
>How does the war change?

It doesn't.

>>33478165
So you mean to convince me that a sub's medical supplies consist solely of ibuprofen and epinephrine and that's it? There HAVE to be more drugs on-board than just that. There must be antibiotics, corticosteroids, anti-fungals, etc.

You mean to tell me they're going to call for a helicopter or ship if a sailor gets athlete's foot? That evacuation is preferable to just stocking some antibiotics for stupid shit like ear infections? That there's no muscle relaxer or more potent anti-inflammatory for the inevitable back problems you'll run into with submariners? That antifibrinolytic agents aren't carried for injuries?

I know you're trying to simplify things but I find it extremely hard to believe what you're saying about a sub's store of pharmaceuticals. There are some things, simple things, that you just NEED in the environment of a submarine- to deal with ailments that would be common to a submarine's conditions or injuries that may occur.

>>33467388
Not "as soon as", dumbass. These would submerge and stay there.

>>33468899
No they didn't. The milk cows were sunk because the Allies read the redezvous messages as fast as the Germans.

There is two things onboard those ships that are worth more than the combat readiness of the submarines

The nuclear engines and the crew, with experienced nuclear engineers reverse engineering to make German have the atom bomb first would be easy.

The rest of the crew would have highly valuable information about things like Normandy, pearl harbour and the dates of other major events during the war.

Plus they could pretty much sink any fleet they wanted, courtesy of you saying "enough supplies to last the war", the only issue I have is I don't know how reliant on satellites they are.

>>33479699
What are they going to sink them with? Planes? Germans will just set RV's in the most remote parts of the ocean and mandate that resupply only occurs under the cover of fog or nightfall, which would render air countermeasures of the time ineffective. There is probably no modern surface countermeasure the a Virginia-class today, much less during WW2. Any allied ship sent to destroy it would be sunk instantly.

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>>33480660
>Germans will just set RV's in the most remote parts of the ocean and mandate that resupply only occurs under the cover of fog or nightfall, which would render air countermeasures of the time ineffective

*teleports astern of u*
*bombs ur conning tower*

>>33480755
They'd just hear it coming and dive. Have you ever been around an in-flight B-24? Its not quiet or subtle in any way and at night the only way it'd be able to locate two all black submarines is with a giant bright light.

That's if the allies happen upon a once-every-three month resupply, which doesn't seem too likely to me.

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>>33474548
>possibly billions spent on retrofitting for females

Jesus fucking christ

>>33481928
>They'd just hear it coming and dive. Have you ever been around an in-flight B-24?

have you seen a nuke boat? they can't exactly crash dive at the best of times let alone when they are lashed to another submarine. their hulls are designed for going fast underwater not diving fast

if you can see or hear the liberator it is all ogre for the Virginia

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>>33477673
So, with this nuclear tech, where are they going to get their uranium to power it?
Germany has as much uranium as it does oil reserves. As much as it has attractive women or good beer.

>>33484972
wow its almost like Germany invaded other countries in ww2 for resources

>>33484972

>be UK
>Have no uranium
>never need to worry about Uranium because Canada, Australia, Namibia and South Africa have more than the rest of the world combined.

The sun never sets.