Why are you still buying meme-level JHP tactifaggot meme rounds?

>>33437423
Fear of collateral damage is a semi-legitimate concern.

>>33437526
Name ONE instance of that EVER happening. Self defense shooting, not dindu spraying.

Fuck off, troll.

>>33437617
>Facts dont fit my narrative...
>Quick! Become agressive and hurl insults!!
Are you an SJW?

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>>33437557
You're too poor to afford JHP aren't you?

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>>33437557
1. you seem to be thinking in primarily terms of the civilian world, but militaries use the most FMJ and collateral damage occurs all the time in that context
2. the reason it doesn't appear to be a huge problem in your mind is because shooters are in fact using JHP when they should be and avoiding the collateral damage
3. There is at least one account of ball ammo passing through an individual (in the pelvic region) and artificially inseminating a second individual (female) in which the round embedded itself. Makes you wonder if death is a worse fate than all the alimony that nigga might have to pay...

but simmer bro, I'm just playing double's advocate

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>>33437733
>double's advocate
*Devil's advocate
>Ftfw
T. America

>>33437733
>1. you seem to be thinking in primarily terms of the civilian world, but militaries use the most FMJ and collateral damage occurs all the time in that context
because the military hates a fair fight and will just flatten random buildings with JDAMs, tank rounds, and copious amounts of 7.62 whenever anybody sneezes at them

>>33437697
JHP isn't all that more expensive.

sage for the troll/moron who thinks less crush cavity is better

>>33437617
Is troll, true, but calibre wars are always fun.

>>33437423
zed, put your trip back on this instant young mister.

>>33437733
>I'm just playing double's advocate

Nice

>>33437733
>Double's advocate

You're beautiful.

>>33437896
This has NOTHING to do with me. Imma just let it play out without my interference.

>>33437733
Listen friend, opinions like yours are a diamond dozen. Why not just keep em to yourself.

>>33438409
>Why not just keep em to yourself.
Because it's a doggy dog world out there!
(ok im done)

>>33437423

>implying I fell for the jhp meme
Flat nose +P is the only path to victory.

>>33437733
>artificially inseminating a second individual (female)
[citation needed]

>>33438559
http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/bullet.asp

Snopes says no.

>>33438627
that, an OP stretched civil war era 'ball' ammo to fit the criteria of 'FMJ ball' ammo...

>>33437423
OK zed we know you can't afford JHP, you don't have to keep reminding us.

>Multiple decades of using cutting-edge research to figure out how to create the most grievous wounds with a single bullet that expands to the size of a .70 cal round and create it in a way that dumps 100% of its kinetic energy into a target by ensuring that the projectile comes to a complete stop, which means no energy was wasted by having the projectile keeping its path through the target, and this also prevents collateral damage

OP:
>LOL LETS JUST USE A REGULAR BALL ROUND THATS LIKE STABBING SOMEONE WITH A ROD 9MM sTHICK

>>33437777
Niiiiice

.45 hardball will put someone's dick in the dirt before a 9mm JHP would.

Carry a man's gun, and you don't have to fret about +p hollow points with secondary explosives and daisy cutter frangibles that you actually need 17 rounds to drop a nigger.

>>33437557
self defense shootings are not documented well enough to tell. Police shootings are well documented.

Most people carry something in 9x19, which has effective JHP ammunition available.

But if someone is carrying something smaller like .380 or 9x18, then yeah, it's probably better to go with ball ammo. The only decent expanding ammunition I've seen in those calibers is Hornady, and those don't penetrate deep enough.

>>33437423
who gives a shit?

>Why are you not carrying what you practice with?
I practice with JHPs.

Why are you still poor?

>>33437423
>Why are you still buying meme-level JHP tactifaggot meme rounds?

Because they kill people deader


>Why are you not carrying what you practice with?

Because that is a meme

>They all fall to hardball.
no

>>33442226
>carrying what you practice with is a meme
No, it's a lesson written in blood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_incident
>The Newhall incident, also called the "Newhall massacre", was a shootout between two heavily armed criminals and officers of the California Highway Patrol (CHP) in the Newhall unincorporated area of Los Angeles County, California on April 5, 1970. In less than 5 minutes, four CHP officers were killed in what was at the time the deadliest day in the history of California law enforcement

>The three officers who fired their handguns were using .357 Magnum rounds, although they had only been trained and certified with .38 Special ammunition, which has less recoil. Soon after the shootout, the CHP standardized their ammunition on the .38 caliber round, ensuring all officers trained with the same ammunition they would use on duty.

>>33442268
differing calibers =/= slight grain differences

>>33442305
>differing calibers =/= slight grain differences
Differences in bullet shape or powder load can cause cycling issues. Slight grain differences can impact accuracy.

Perhaps it's different for you, but my life is worth more than the price difference between FMJ and JHP.

Getting shot by a hollowpoint seems a lot worse than a fmj. I wouldn't want to be shot with either but if I was going to get hit by one or the other I think I'd prefer even less for it to be the HP round.

>>33442268
I don't disagree with your assertion that you should practice with what you carry, but I question if that practicing with what you carry was a decisive factor in the outcome of the Newhall Massacre compared to the other contributing factors.

As the article you linked says, all of the policemen involved were rookies while the criminals they were facing were hardened felons whose skill with firearms and experience in actual combat was greater than theirs. Even if they had been using 158 grain lead round nose .38 Special (remember that the Newhall massacre happened before the adoption of the FBI load) instead of .357 Magnum, the outcome would have probably been the same.

>>33438559
they tested this on mythbusters, its a civil war story

>>33442341
>Even if they had been using 158 grain lead round nose .38 Special (remember that the Newhall massacre happened before the adoption of the FBI load) instead of .357 Magnum, the outcome would have probably been the same.

Huh? It wasn't the performance of the round that was the issue. It was the performance of the shooters. None of the cops shot their wheelguns for shit, because they were unaccustomed to the heavier recoil.

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>>33437777
Witnessed!!!

>>33442326
Its not about your personal preference, its about the fact that JHP wont stop an attacker any faster or any slower than FMJ.

Its all about where theyre hit.

>>33439158
Thus is bullshit. ALL shooting are documented, unless they dont call the cops in the first place.

>>33442317
As long as there's not a huge disparity in recoil impulse and you have shot enough of your defensive stuff to know where it prints, this isn't an issue.

The example you gave is a much more extreme situation than what were are talking about.

My 124 grn practice ammo recoils and prints almost exactly the same as my 135 grn SD loads. If I'm ever in a gunfight that 1/2" @ 21 ft higher printing isn't going to be on my list of concerns.

Even if I can't get the 124 grn stuff I like 115 isn't going to make me go all willy nilly

>>33437423
>Zed forgot his trip
Sucking cock got your brains all addled, boy? High on an ethnic cocktail of jizz?

>>33438409
>>33438431
> diamond dozen
dime a dozen, as in vapid.
> doggy dog world
Dog eat dog world, as in survival of the fittest.

>>33443900
Joke
Your head.

>>33442380
>None of the cops shot their wheelguns for shit, because they were unaccustomed to the heavier recoil.

I know that they failed to score any hits. My point was that the four policemen involved were very inexperienced in all things related to serious police work and their firearms proficiency in general was very low. Even if they had been using weaker ammunition that was easier to shoot, that would not have rectified all of the other tactical mistakes that were made in the run-up to the shootout and the shootout itself.

This is also leaving aside the separate but equally relevant issue of how many hits it would have taken to put down the criminals involved with standard pressure 158 grain LRN .38 Special, which was a notoriously weak loading even during its heyday. The sole reason it remained in use for decades was just because older police revolvers weren't rated to handle anything more powerful.

>>33437423

Hornady critical defense is a buck a bullet

Fiocchi or Winchester FMJ are half that price

>>33437423
Put your trip back on, Zed. You aren't fooling anyone.

>>33438342
>Had nothing to do with it I swear I just happened to be in this thread for no reason imma good boy who dindu nuffin jus tryna get my life on track

>>33437423
>satisfied with poking sub-caliber holes in somebody and wasting extra energy that could instead do work on yo enemies.

>>33438409
>>33438431
you can even see him samefagging lel

>>33439147
why the fuck do you even carry .45 other than to poke .9" holes in things

Cops only use JHP to avoid lawsuits from ricochet. Overpenetraruon hitting a bystander is a myth.

Ball ammo works just as well to stop a guy.

Ive been carrying my 1911 with FMJ for years. Never felt undergunned. Had a few misfeeds with hollowpoints so I figure its the better option

>>33437423
because at 7 yards it still print close enough and it's cheaper. I do shoot up and restock my carry ammo every few months, and can verify that practicing with cheap bulk FMJs doesn't affect my performance.

>>33444747
>Had a few misfeeds with hollowpoints so I figure its the better option

Aren't older 1911's notorious for feeding issues with hollow points

>>33444909
I dunno. Depends on the gun i guess.

>>33437423
I keep my G19 loaded with cheapshit tula FMJ. If 30 rounds isn't enough to stop the guy, it doesn't really matter what you shoot him with.

Hell, 30 rounds of .22 short would theoretically be enough for me to be comfortable.

>>33444941
>in no scenario will they ever be shooting back
t.retard

stopping the threat as fast as possible is important.

>>33444997
Unless someone is drugged out of their mind, or wearing body armor, 30 rounds of .22 fucking short is going to stop the threat just as well as 7 rounds of HP .45ACP.

Which one can you shoot faster aimed shots with?

>>33445091
>huur iff FMJ is as gud as JHP y u dont use .22 short den??? Hurp.

What is feed reliabilty?
What is primer reliabilty?

>>33445212
>What is feed reliabilty?
>What is primer reliabilty?
Both are why I said theoretically in my first post.

I'm talking about straight ballistic performance, and nothing else. Would you prefer I change the comparison to .25ACP? 30 rounds of ANYTHING would fuck someone up.

>>33445248
Although I do have experience with a semi auto .22 short rifle, and it has only jammed once in a few hundred rounds.

>>33445248
.25 ACP doesnt even penetrate 12" using hardball.

Make it FMJ .32 ACP and you've got something. I understand your point, there's just too many stupid people on here who will get "confused".

>>33445248
you probably keep birdshot loaded in an HD shotgun too. that or 55gr hornady vmax...

>>33444311
>why the fuck do you even carry .45 other than to poke .9" holes in things
>carry .45 other than to poke .9" holes
> .9" holes

Here's a real rocket scientist. Check your ruler, you fucking cum-drooling moron.

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>>33443900
It's a meme you dip

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>>33437423
My plinking ammo is also my carry round because I'm too poor for JHP.

>>33448114
Just buy a few boxes and you're set for life. Shoot a few mags to figure out how it feels different to your plinking cartridge and then just have enough to fill up your EDC.

>>33446882
im sorry but is that not how you say 9/10ths of and inch?

>>33437423
I don't buy JHPs, I carry multiple guns in different barrel lengths, so i prefer the consistency of ball rounds.

>>33445826
Nope, I don't keep a shotgun loaded. Just my Glock and AK.

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>>33437423
>Why are you still buying meme-level JHP

I'm not I'm using FN CLAW ammo

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Which one do I carry and why

>>33448350
then why are you even responding? literally no one asked you

>>33448823
IDK but them hollow tips look outdated son, best upgraade upgraade if u no what im sayin for someone catches yo ass slippin

>>33443840
they're mostly documented but not necessarily collected in a study. studies of gun violence are actively blocked by congress due to NRA influence (it's a fact, look it up). If you think over-penetration is not a concern in an urban environment you are an irresponsible redneck faggot and exactly the type of person liberals use as an example.

>>33437733
military uses fmj because rounds that cause larger wound channels like hollow point are specifically forbidden by the geneva convention

>>33448969
They are less than 6 months old, Federal HST's. They do look really tarnished, I should probably shoot them.

>>33449019
you sure those are HSTs? that's what i usually carry and they tend to have a deeper hollow point cavity and longer/deeper perforations(or whatever they're called). maybe they just changed the design or something.

>>33448479
No shit someone actually tried that I been wondering what would happen with A round like that.

I used to carry a mag of buffalo bore hard cast in my CZ when I traveled. Its stupid, but I wanted barrier penetration.

Biggest problem with fmj is that most of it is shitty cheap, low powered range ammo. I'd carry nato spec if thats what I was stupid enough to carry on the daily.

That bitch Giffords survived getting popped with 115gr white box. If it can't drop a middle aged politician, thats just shitty.

>>33449620
shoulda used a flat meplat.

>>33437557
>>33437423
>>33437659
get the fuck out of here Zed.

It's amazing how many posts this troll thread got. I'm legit disappointed in you /k/

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>>33448348
>im sorry but is that not how you say 9/10ths of and inch?

Do you think that a .45 caliber is 9/10ths of an inch in diameter?

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!11!!!111!!111!!!!

Fucking dumbass, GTFO

>>33451817
He's referring to the expansion. You just played yourself, fool.

>>33451952
Still only like a 6th of an inch.

>>33452383
>Still only like a 6th of an inch.
I'll assume you are inarticulate and don't really mean 1/6". Depends on the round, but here's one that expands to over 1":

http://winchesterle.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/RA45T.aspx

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My dog bit me on the leg today.
My cat clawed my eyes.
Ma's been thrown out of the social circle,
And dad has to hide.
I went to church incognito.
When everybody rose, the Reverend Smith,
He recognized me,
And punched me in the nose, he said.
No more Mister Nice Guy,
No more Mister Clean,
No more Mister Nice Guy,
He said you're sick, you're obscene.
No more Mister Nice Guy,
No more Mister Clean,
No more Mister Nice Guy,
He said you're sick, you're obscene.

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>>33437733
>double's advocate

Checked and keked

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>>33449896
Seriously. None of those are me.

>>33437423
Or you could explain a single benefit to using JHP....

>>33439147
If you're so set on stoppin powah, why don't you just stop being a fag and go straight to 10mm?

>>33456137
Stoppan Powah = Big Boolit, 10mm is .40 thus forever inferior to get-some-.45

>>33437423
>Why are you not carrying what you practice with?
Because I expect - based on some reasonable thought - any defensive firearm use I can possibly foresee for myself will occur at a range of less than fifty metres, where the difference will be negligible.
I've ensured my weapon will cycle the types of ammunition I intend to use it with, and I've satisfied myself with the defensive loads, but it's too expensive to train as much as I currently do using only defensive ammunition.
I suspect you knew all of this, though.

>>33449373
Yeah they are, unless they packaged them wrong