Was this Chinese fuck wrong on anything he wrote about in "Art

his genius is overstated. he is famous for being the oldest surviving author of common fucking sense.

>>33395498

Look at it more as a guideline. Some times you won't be able to apply what he says, some times you can.

>>33395498
you mean the overly simplistic common sense shit, or did you find some lost chapter nobody knows about?

5 rings is better.

>>33395523
so you are like one step from dressing up and claiming to be war veteran at walmart ?

>>33395523
It's amazing how a few simple lines manages to capture the cuteness of females in those drawings.

>>33395521
>Book of the 5 Rings
Muh nig

Art of War is all common sense, unless you're absolutely fucking retarded (which most people are, in my experience). I had to tell a Taiwanese exchange student at my college where in Asia the People's Republic of China is. My neighbors somehow managed to get three months into 2017 without realizing that Barack Obama is no longer POTUS. One of my coworkers asked another one to hand her a kitchen knife and the guy by the knife tossed it underhand to her like it was car keys or a softball. Luckily, it only grazed her leg. Some people need to have common sense explained to them

>>33395498
Quote a single passage from his book off the top of your head

better yet, quote a single passage from his book that isnt common sense, obsolete, or relevant only for ancient feudal conflicts in asia

Go ahead, suprise us

>>33395756
not OP but

"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."

this isn't really common sense, plenty of generals and leaders have knowingly treated their men like shit. Everything from Townshend to asshole officers getting fragged in Vietnam

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>>33395756
>hurr durr a book full of common sense is fucking useless

>>33395829
"Don't be a total asswipe and the guys under your command will actually give a shit about you and your orders" seems pretty common sense to me, anon.

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>>33395756

Pic related...

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Here's one I bet you haven't heard.

>>33395549
Not an odd sentiment for 4chan when you think about it.

>>33395637
You're young. It never ends brother.

>>33395498

I like his quote being that nations shouldnt fight for the sake of fighting, but to achieve victory.

America is especially bad in heeding that advice.

Look Vietnam...

>"Oh, but mu K/D ratio!"
>"Muh Paris Treaty!"
>"Muh hippies ruined it!"

Sun Tzu would have taughted America to look at the big picture and set a goal of war that can actually be achieved, and not some abstract shit like "contain communism", while totally ignoring the political, media and social aspects of the home-front.

America lost Vietnam, simply because the war devolved from a stabilization mission into some endless conflict for the sake of it.

Same problem with mission creep can be seen in other wars that the US fought, such as Afghanistan and the War on Terror.

Generally, Sun Tzu and other asian military thinkers put heavy emphasis on strategic and political analysis instead of hands-on-approach on how to move troops, how to flank an enemy and other things that they consider to be something on the tactical level and beneath them.

Basically, Asia plays Go/Weiqi, a game where you win by encircling your enemy with little steps while following an extremely long-term strategy that takes non-military related aspects into account, while the West favors Chess, which is direct, confrontational, and aimed at nothing else but killing the enemy soldiers and make their leader surrender.

Obviously, Westeners dont understand Sun Tzu, because he does not think in Chess-terms.

>>33395523
finnish gf is qtest desu

>>33396043
you sound millennial. is that what your history teacher taught you? tell her she's wrong, tomorrow.

>>33395886
Common sense is not as common as you think, anon. I take it you never held any position above grunt? Institutional inertia, "tradition" or just plain ego or worse, spite, have trumped (heh) common sense more times than you thought possible.

You anon, had exposure to education and knowledge (some of it from Tsun Zu) that others even 100 years ago can only dream about. That doesn't mean what you snidely say as "common sense" was widely known in the past.

>>33395756
the problem with alot of humans is they tend to throw common sense out of the window in the heat of the moment, desu

>>33396043
I think it's safe to say that nobody won Vietnam. Neither side's goals were ever really accomplished and immediately after North and South were reunited, Vietnam ended up stuck occupying Cambodia and getting shot up by Chinese-funded insurgents for over a decade. Yeah, the we had our asses handed to us and didn't achieve our goals in the region, but lets not try and pretend that Vietnam won anything. They didn't.

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>>33395498
its mostly about espionage and asymmetric warfare
.eg ganking harvesters
>>33395592
>>33395521
book of the five rings ant nothing but a toll

>>33396074
>implying the US doesnt absolutely suck in terms of long term strategies and macroscopical analysis.

/k/ is especially bad in that regard.

>hurrr muh caliber is better than yours!!!1
>muh tonk is better and muh plane is better!!
>Muhreeens!!!

Nothing of above plays any role, if your enemy simply wont fight you, but is encircling piece by piece, by taking advantage of your capitalist's own greed for profit to goat them in and making them present their technologies, growing economically, building partnerships and poaching your clients away with thier money and investments, stealing your secrets, manipulating your elections, and enjoy seeing you struggling with unwinnable wars that your fight out of pride and because a certain country inhabitated by a certain chosen people who feel threatened by literally everyone around them makes you fund terrorist-groups and drags you into more wars that do not further your own interests, but theirs.

After all, the best way is to win without a fight.

>>33396093
I never even served. Being firm but reasonable just seems like common sense. When I've had to do administrative work, it's what gets the job done best. You don't treat people like shit or they'll resent you and half-ass everything, but you also don't give them too much leeway because then they'll just let everything slide because they know there are no consequences. I'm a teacher now and apply this in my classroom. It just fucking works.

>>33396125
Strategically, Vietnam "didnt win" because their country's economy was getting continuously wrecked for the decades to come. But that's not because of the US war in Vietnam, but actually because the US grew some brains and tried it the Sun Tzu way: Opening up to China with Nixon's visit and poaching a communist ally from the Soviets, who then will proceed to put pressure on both Vietnam and the USSR.

Nixon's China-move wasnt out of any long term strategic calculation, but for the short term need to win an election, but the US passively did the right thing - at least in terms of taking their revenge on Vietnam, as the Sino-Vietnamese border wars from 1979 till 1990 literally wrecked the Vietnamese economy, even if the Chinese couldnt prevail militarily.

But was that a overall win for the US? I dont think so. Nixon was reelected and Vietnam punished, but the US created their own worst long term enemy in the process.

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Everyone posting
>hurr arte of war is common sense!

No shit. That's the point.

All art of war does is present common sense in an easily understood scenario (war). So that the same logic and common sense may be applied by the reader to more abstract scenarios (like business)

>>33396215
LMAO they failed because we agent orange'd their fuckin rice fields nigga

>>33396132
My brother of peaceful unity

>>33395498
Not wrong, most of the shit is either common sense or not applicable to strategy today. Spend your time reading something else if you want to study strategy.

>>33395876
this is the funniest thing I've read in ages. Bless you, my son. Bless you.

>>33396361
Agent Orange is rice safe.

>>33395756
>Quote a single passage from his book off the top of your head
Don't give orders that won't be obeyed, it only teaches people to disobey you.

Never make idle threats, it teaches people that your wrath is not to be feared.

Do not make examples without cause, to be seen as fickle undermines your authority and respect for your judgment.

I quote stuff like that to my wife all the time, it's arguably more relevant to child-rearing than war.

Machievelli said much the same stuff desu, he's not thought to have read Art of War.

Also, fyi, Sun Tzu is a pseudonym that was used by dozens of authors, they tacked their own chapter onto his book and released the whole thing as written by him. It was a common practice by ancient writers. And the actual guy himself was probably mythological.

>>33396125
>I think it's safe to say that nobody won Vietnam. Neither side's goals were ever really accomplished and immediately after North and South were reunited, Vietnam ended up stuck occupying Cambodia and getting shot up by Chinese-funded insurgents for over a decade. Yeah, the we had our asses handed to us and didn't achieve our goals in the region, but lets not try and pretend that Vietnam won anything. They didn't.

I think you could say that North Vietnam won because they conquered the south and ruled a united Vietnam and still do. They suffered for it but better to rule in hell, right? I don't think there was a better outcome for them than what they got. If they hadn't fought in Cambodia/Laos, they'd have had Chinese backed insurgents nibbling at their borders and had to fight them at home, well more than they did. As it was, when they fought Hmong etc in Vietnam, they curb-stomped them.

Was there a better outcome for North Vietnam than that?

Russia lost China but gained Vietnam, not a great trade maybe but China was too big to be dependent on them and Vietnam is too small to resist so Russia got airbases on the South China Sea which are still there (though being gradually civilianised).

Years later, USA is back in Vietnam as partners and it's conceivable that they might get a base in there one day.

>>33396043
Interesting thoughts. I would definitely agree that Western doctrine of war concerns itself primarily with total evisceration of an enemy force, and quickly runs out of ideas after that point *cough* Schwarzkopf *cough*

>>33397198
Every few years I'll go back and read The Prince. I come away with a different view of it every time.

>>33395514
It's common sense now. Not so much back then perhaps?

Even so, "common sense" isn't all that common now a days...

>>33397383
and civil war ain't so civil

>>33395637
> Taiwanese exchange student
> does not know what the PRC is

Sounds like a fucking farm boy stuck growing pineapples and fruits somehow got into the grownup land.

>>33395523
The Finnish girl is obviously the best choice

>>33397281
>Vietnam won the war and sent America packing
>Vietnam falls to McDonalds and KFC.
>American soft victory.

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>>33395756

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>>33395756
"throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight"
make retreat seem impossible to your men, so they won't be routed, instead dying in place
good shit

>>33397480
>Vietnam falls to McDonalds and KFC.

I was going to call bullshit on McDonalds at least because I remember seeing a Burger King in Saigon but not McDs, in either Saigon or Hanoi. However I just found that the first one opened in February 2014 and I was last there in December 2013. There were several KFCs though.

I'm not sure that counts as a defeat anyway, because money is going out of the country in corporate profits?

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>>33395523
>trying to make the trap look like best "girl"

>>33398942
vietnam has been pretty capitalist since doi moi

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Considering that a large number of posts in this thread keep consistently complaining, almost vehemently, that the "Art of War" is really just common sense, I'm going to assume that it's just one person who has some weird hatred of that book.

You need to settle the fuck down anon, whoever you might be.

>>33395498
That's not 孙祖。

>>33395523
>kicked out for falling in love

Kill yourself.

What a waste of a slot.

>>33399132
>That's not 孙祖。
Of course not. SunZu is a semi-mythological figure that later writers attached their own writing too. Nobody knows who SunZu was or if he even existed at all. Even if he did, SunZu would probably be some sort of pen name anyway and not what he was actually called when he was a general. So we probably have no idea who the fuck he was and never will. Assuming that he's not just like the Yellow Emperor and never existed at all.

>>33398942
KFC in vietnam is not directly under Yum Brand Inc. tho. Afaik almost all KFC restaurants in asia pacific (except china and japan) are controlled by a Malaysian conglomerate

>>33396159
>I'm a teacher now and apply this in my classroom. It just fucking works
lol, this cunt is responsible for our future generation

what subject, btw?

>>33399888
>KFC in vietnam is not directly under Yum Brand Inc. tho
That rings a bell. I think some sort of Asian rights were bought ages back. Probably why KFC got in Vietnam first.

>>33395756
HARO CAN I HAVE SO RICE CHIKEN

>>33395756
115. Fried Rice with Diced Seafood

the fact you guys keep referring to Sun Tzu as one person shows your depth of knowledge. Art of War was written by multiple people over many years.

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>>33400153
>>33400164

>>33400215
Yeah that's only been brought up five or six times in the thread so far, thank you for kindly re-iterating that VERY interesting point.

>>33395756
"Let your plans be as impenetrable as night and when you attack, fall like a thunderbolt."

>>33396043
>bigger picture

Vietnam gdp per capita is about 2000 dollars South-Korea gdp per capita is 20 000 dollars. There, a bigger picture for you commie bastard.

>>33400274
Sauce?

>>33395514
This.

You have to be pretty braindead to not have thought "If I don't tell my enemy what I'm doing, I'm probably better off."

>>33401343
didn't the Congress openly approved a secret plan to assassinate Sadam Hussein during the Bush Jr administration?

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>>33395498
>All armies prefer high ground to low and sunny places to dark.

He doesn't know night time is the right time.

>>33397383

>It's common sense now. Not so much back then perhaps?

Did ancient people really need to be told stuff like "it's a good idea to be knowledgeable about the enemy as well as your own side"? A lot of his advice is exposed as Captain Obvious' Big Book Of Truisms when you take away the spooky language that makes it such a great quote-mine for Chinaboos and other pseudo-intellectuals.

>>33402800
"Riddle the Machine Demon with arrows until he dies, so you do not take his place on the bloodied ground."

>>33402916

"Fight if you know for sure you're going to win"

>>33402701

Well, for Spec Ops, sure, Sun Tzu talks about that in his part about espionage and spies.

But for your armies? Your troops of not-spec-ops-trained quality? No, you want to have them move in the day time.

>>33401343
>You have to be pretty braindead to not have thought "If I don't tell my enemy what I'm doing, I'm probably better off."
really, then tell me why your life sucks and your boyfriend left you.

>>33402800
>pseudo-intellectuals.
talking about yourself, fag?

>>33404689
US line infantry have NVGs, too. It's pretty standard stuff now.

>>33405734
Ah yes, of course! Why did Sun Tzu not include NVGs in his writings? What a hack lol

>>33395498
All the stuff he wrote applies some way, so no, he technically isn't wrong. It might not ALWAYS work in every situation, but it does work.

>>33404738

Did I hit a nerve?

>>33395514
I love you

>>33395521
>t. Ken-sama

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>>33395498
Some of his stuff is useful even today.