is it realy possible to protect your hearing when shooting? the

Ear plugs + over-ear

You double up for a reason, famalam

>>33389469
Nope. May as well just kill yourself.

>>33389483
This, it does enough.

>>33389483
even if it protected 2x as much at -60 dp which probably wouldnt happen at all if i shot .223 or 7.62x39 it still wouldnt be enough protection in a 160dp gun... can i get a real solution?

You can go for "double" protection of plugs and muffs for cheap. Or you can get active protection like Peltor Tactical 6S. You hear a whisper while firing HMG with this kind of protection while muffling gunfire to barely audible levels

Shooting damages your ears, even with the best protection. That's something you got to accept.

>>33389506
If you're this much of a whiney bitch, the solution is take up knitting.

>>33389524
SHOOTING DOES WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU

>>33389587
TURN UP THE VOLUME ON YOUR TEXT TO SPEECH DEVICE

I love how some people keep bitching about earpro and how guns are harmfull to your hearing and then put on headphones with volume on full blast.
>not saying OP is this bitch

>>33389607
TURN UP WHAT? VOLUME? I HAVE IT AT MAX, YOU'RE SPEAKING TO SILENT

>>33389607
WHY WOULD I WANT TO COOK MY EX SOME RICE?

>>33389513
Do the military use this type of thing? Seems like it would be really handy if not.

>>33389620
NO I DON'T WANT TO FUCK, SORRY

>>33389506
>>33389469
How does this work in addition to muzzle devices? From what I understand they don't lower the decibals but instead redirect the volume of sound forward away from the shooter meaning the decibal count behind the firing gun should be lower than in front of it.

>>33389513
Does the military use this type of thing? If not I imagine its would be really handy.

>>33389469
Use proper over-ear hearing protection and shoot outdoors

>>33389625
It cost about 20x the normal protection so it is not common yet, but I used in peltor something in army and as of 2013(when I moved to reserve) they were getting more and more common. I was combat engineer so this might not represent army as whole tho

>>33389630
Literally what. Plugs plug your ear canal so sound has to travel trough physical medium thus lowering heard sound. Over ears create physical barrier over your ears achieving same or better result

>>33389469
I always double up with plugs and muffs for that reason. I know that I can't reasonably stop the hearing damage, but I do my best to mitigate it.

Honestly, HPA NEEDS to pass to have a real shot at protecting your ears.

>I don't understand how hearing loss works, the post

>>33389469
No, it's not possible without a suppressor.
>>33389483
>>33389491
>>33389506
>>33389513
It's actually not enough. Double ear pro does not simply add the two NRR together. The rule of thumb for double ear pro is +5 NRR to the higher of the two.
NRR 32 plugs + NRR 27 muffs = NRR 37

If you are not using silencers, muffs, AND plugs, you will lose hearing. Remember, 140 dB is not a "hearing safe" threshold.

>long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can cause hearing loss. The louder the sound, the shorter the amount of time it takes for NIHL to happen.

So as long as you wear your double earpro and don't fire spastically quickly, you aren't really going to damage your hearing a noticeable amount.

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Short exposure is not that harmful unless you go unprotected

>>33389469
The threshold for hearing damage is 90db of sustained noise for at least 15 minutes. This is more of an issue working around heavy machinery or concert speakers. Repeated fire is still just a series of peaks. The decibel rating and sound pressure at the source of the sound is also reduced as it travels through a medium, so a shotgun blast that is 155db at the muzzle is not necessarily that loud when you are standing 10 feet away.

Doubling up has minimal gains so it's a better investment to get one good form of protection instead of two shitty ones. An hour of playing with .22's wearing a good set of ear muffs will not automatically translate into permanent hearing loss.

>>33390417
>130dB permissible exposure is 7/8th of a second
>139dB is 0.1 seconds
>160dB is 0.00085 seconds
>somehow getting from that short exposures are okay

>>33389629
MY TRUCK AIN'T MADE BY SONY, RETARD

>>33391326

NO, I'VE NEVER RIDDEN A PONY HARD

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>>33389469
See >>33390417, >>33390579

To clarify: short, loud impulses, such as created by gunfire, have a much higher threshold for damage to begin than 85dB. When shooting outdoors, shooting less than magnum calibers and full power rifles, a single set of PROPERLY INSERTED foam ear plugs is sufficient.

>>33391349
NOBODY HERE EVER RIDDEN A WOMEN

>>33391264
Doubling up can net somewhere between 35-40nrr. 7.62x51, 5.56, and 9mm all sit around 160db (in front of the muzzle).

Exposure levels for 124db is 3 seconds continous, 120db is 7s+.

>>33391410

I wish I had this picture when I tell people I shouldn't be able to see their plugs at all from the front.

Also, does anyone get a weird sensation where you need to cough when you put in ear plugs?

>>33391532
That's probably trapped air, squeeze first and let it expand a bit before pushing in.

I use Mack's plugs and shoot outdoors and have not experienced any hearing loss or tinnitus. I have excellent hearing and get it tested every 6 months for my job.

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>>33389513
Peltor master race
$100 bucks to be at a full gun range and hear everything but the gun shots

>>33391410
Hearing damage only happens at 85db with continuous exposure. Transient or instantaneous sounds start damaging hearing around 120db.

>>33389566
DID YOU SAY SOMETHING OVER THERE?

>>33393069
NO JUST EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33389506
It maxes out at ~34-35 real decibels if you double up.
Keep in mind, that is literally 1/2000th as much energy than if you hasn't used hear protection.

>can i get a real solution?
Suppressor, don't shoot 30-06 out of a 5 inch barrel / don't shoot excessively loud things, wear hearing protection, etc.

There are two types of hearing loss, instantaneous and non-instantaneous.
If you are exposed to 160db source unprotected for a second, then a second dose won't kill any more of your hearing. However, if you are exposed for longer periods of time, then more damage will occur.

Think of a vase dropping. If it shatters, it can't shatter again, but the shards can be crushed further.
With hearing protection instead of shattering, the vase just cracks. But repeatedly dropping it will cause the crack to widen with time.


>tl;dr
hearing protection is a losing battle for anything that isn't ~120 db and below, but it is a fight worth losing because it's better than the alternative.

>>33391828
Whoa only 100 bucks? I thought theyd be alot more, can you really hear like everything besides gunshots, as if you had no hearing protection are is there still some muffling?

>>33389610
Or going to concerts

>>33391503

WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO FISHIN'

>>33393199
Are you unfamiliar with active hearing protection? They use microphones one the muffs with hardwired compressor/limiters to not let sounds that are too loud through.

>>33393199
There's other similar hearing protection that is cheaper if you want something similar but at a cheaper price.

>>33393238
DRUGS? ARE YOU NUTS?

So what is the decibel rating on average behind a gun rather than next to the muzzle? Seems to be much more quieter behind one and if your shooting outdoors the sound waves have a place to go.

Double up or die.

I'm foamies only and embrace the eeeeee. Really hope the HPA passes but am not counting on it.

>>33393348
YEAH I'M AN ASTRONAUT, WHY?

>>33393482
If I remember correctly it is about 10db lower in open air, but indoors or next to wall drop in db is miniscule.

>>33389469
my ears are super sensitive, i can't even take loud music. shooting guns with the cheapest fucking ear protection the range offers is just fine.

what are you smoking?

>>33391509
That's assuming that you are firing only a single shot and that ear pro is inserted.
Ear plugs are rarely inserted properly, being either partially inserted or being creased.
Ear muffs never give full effect simply because most people have hair and wear eyepro.

So yes, with perfectly installed double earpro you can fire ~10 rounds of 308 from a 24" barrel without partial disability-level hearing loss.

>>33391532
only in my right ear. the eustachian tube is somehow different than the left ear.

Eh, VA 10 percent.

>>33391828
Tac 100 is $59 on amazon right now. Worth picking up? I just use a standard set of muffs right now.

>>33394419
NO I'M NOT IN ASTRAL TRAVEL SORRY

>>33394916
Peltor is not that much more. I would personally go for Peltor

>>33393248
Not really, always assumed they were expensive and never looked into em

>>33395682
They were expensive when ghost recon 2 came out and hyped the fuck out of them. That was over decade ago

>Always lived in quiet places
>Shooting is the only loud activitEEE I do so I'm fine
>turn 21
>EEEEEE and right ear dying
>get interrested in flying as well

WAKE ME UP

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>>33391828
I have these. 60$ and they work so well.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00NAG4WX2/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr3_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1490234122&sr=8-2-fkmr3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=peltor+active+hearing+protection

>>33394799
So read the package and put plugs in right?

>ITT:
>people that don't know how exposure times work
>people that don't know how db measurements on guns work
>people that don't know how to put earplugs in correctly
>people that don't know what the Doppler effect is

If you're outside, a pair of 32db earplugs, not muffs, earplugs, inserted properly is more than enough for 99% of shooting. Unless you're doing stupid shit like standing a foot in front of the muzzle you're well under 120db of exposure on a single shot.

>>33394799
>So yes, with perfectly installed double earpro you can fire ~10 rounds of 308 from a 24" barrel without partial disability-level hearing loss.
lol no, I've done 100 rounds out of a 24" 30-06 in under an hour with just earplugs and my hearing is still perfect.

>>33389632
the military issues cheap shitty earplugs. A lot of guys buy their own earpro

>>33396368
Do these work via clipping or compression?

>>33399077
11b, done plenty of shooting outdoors with just shitty foam plugs, absolutely fine protection

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>>33389469
>>33389506

Are you actually fucking retarded or do you simply not understand how sound works? Especially in relation to the ear?

This goes for >>33390200 too who is an idiot and doesn't understand that bels are logarithmic units based on some arbitrary unit of "sound power" that doesn't actually mean anything anyway. A better measure would be the fucking actual pressure at the ear (because this is how your fucking ear drums work) but unfortunately the top men (i.e. retards) at Bell Laboratories were obsessed with slipsticks so there you fucking go.

So in short a gunshot heard from ten feet away is not going to make you deaf, but a gunshot heard from an inch away will. Why? Pressure. It's the same dB rating, but it's not the same pressure.

This is a fucking retarded thread.

>>33399371
my dude, dB is a measure of pressure scaled logarithmically. If the meter is 10ft away it will read differently that if it is one inch away.
>t. an audio engineer

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>>33389469
Op this is all you need

>>33394618
>what are you smoking?
His different genes, probably.

>>33389469
The threshold for hearing damage is 85 dB for 8 hours of continuous exposure, not instantaneous. Every 3 dB above that halves the allowed exposure time. That is how muffs can been said as "hearing safe" if they reduce the intensity down to a level where the the impulse of a gunshot is shorter than the exposure allowance. Same with suppressors. IIRC the limit for for gun shots based on that formula is somewhere between 120 & 140 dB. 140 is the threshold for pain.
>Learn2OSHA

>>33399476
>thinking OSHA has any baring on reality
But seriously the threshold for transient hearing loss is 120dB

>>33399488
>Implying they pull the numbers directly out of their asses
120 is the threshold for """""""impulse"""''''''" damage, but the allowable limit at that level can be calculated to a finite value. The length and intensity of "impulses" such as gunshots are 100% dependent on environmental variables; barriers, air density, echoing surfaces, reflecting angles, etc. 120 is a blanket idea, not a hard rule.
Regardless, it isn't instantaneous at 85 dB, as OP originally implied.

>>33399517
Fair enough. But 120dB is a hard ish rule for transients, but the environment can make gunshots longer and not be transients anymore or they can provide constructive interference and make them louder.

Stupid question, but why isn't haven't guns been getting quieter in general over the years? It seems like a well defined engineering problem. Is no one working on it? There are both tactical and health-and-safety benefits to quieter guns. I don't mean just suppressors, but designing the whole firearm and the ammo to make less noise.

>>33399551
Pardon the mangled first sentence.

>>33399315
Jet mech and recreational shooter here. Foamies (3M Classic) work well and clean your ears. I've used them since 1981. They are tested (including USAF bio-environmental health) and comforatable. There's nothing "shitty" about them.

>>33399551
Because it is antithetical to the other objectives of firearms design. This created the niche for suppressors. As powder gets more efficient the pitch of gunshots gets higher though, because the explosion gets faster.

>>33399572
>the pitch of gunshots gets higher
That's a good thing because high-pitch sound is absorbed by the atmosphere faster, right?

>>33399584
It gets absorbed by everything but the atmosphere faster, that is why higher pitched sounds are more "directional".

>>33399609
Oh. Thanks for the correction.

>>33390200
Even if you did all that, what about other ppl at the range (indoors)?

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>>33399446
That is not how everyone uses it and you fucking know it, they warble, "but muh deebees!" and then say hearing protection is worthless because you cannot hope to defend against them.

That's why I worded it the way I did, "dB rating" is stupid, arbitrary bullshit.

Oh, and the decibel is not strictly a measurement of pressure, it's a ratio and nothing more. Used properly the precious deebees in the poor little ears of retards around the world won't amount to tinnitus if they're not mouth-breathing, football-fucking retards who eschew ear plugs because they assume that protection is futile.

>>33394953
YOU'RE MOVING TO DUBAI?

>>33399704
Sometimes I wad up paper towel and use that as my ear protection

>>33391828
Why aren't these standard issue?

>>33399705
FUCK YOU, I'M NOT DUMB

>>33399704
>decibel is not strictly a measurement of pressure
We are talking about dbSPL (sound pressure level) here and you fucking know it my dude. But who cares, let the plebs go deaf. I wear -25dB active hearing protection indoors or outdoors; pistol or long gun. I haven't lost any hearing.

>>33389469
Damage to your hearing is done via constant noise over a certain threshold or through sudden really loud shit. 85dp needs hours abd hours, probably days, of constant stress before anything will be damaged.