Is the whole"sending unarmed men into combat" thing

>>33373234
Parts of pre-WW1 wars: Yes.
parts of WW1: Yes.
To stem the tide of the German advance in WW2/used at very desperate points after Stalingrad: Yes
Used in the way TV/Movies/Video Games show it: Not really.

>>33373234
Quite much, yes : during the German push, countless lives were sacrificed to prevent the Germans from winning the war while retreating to strecht out German supply lines and wait for winter ; and when the Soviets began to gain back ground, men tides were used to force the Germans into a quickier restreat.

Only at the very beginning of Operation Barbarossa

>>33373234
wave attacks where used at first in a form of desperation
latter on they would be proceded by heavy artilery fire followed by a rush because you have a better chance of surviving if you launch an all out attack before the enemy gets to recover from getting their position pulverised by massed artilery

>>33373234
Not to the point portrayed in the media, but yes they used unarmed peasants as literal cannon fodder in basically every conflict from ~1600 to present, including Ukraine.

>>33373260
Like everyone else said, it did happen and probably did happen more in WWI but it wasn't a standard part of the Russian military doctrine. The Red Army in 1941 was retarded but it wasn't THAT retarded.

But as a funny anecdote, I do remember reading somewhere that the Soviets were so deathly afraid of disobeying orders (because it meant you'd just get a bullet in the back of the head) that they would go through with the most retarded shit knowing it was foolish but feeling like they had no other options. One anecdote I remember was that an entire company hadn't been issued their weapons yet but were sent to fight a Panzer division because the commander in charge got drunk and forgot they had just gotten to the front that morning or something.

>>33373234
Isolated instances occurred but they were not the norm. Not even for penal battalions.

>>33373450

I don't know if that's awesome or retarded.

>>33373234
This was primarily something seen in penal battalions. Those guys got fucked. Need to clear a minefield quickly? March a penal battalion across it. The Germans also had penal battalions, but they were nowhere near as crude as the Soviets.

>>33373450
Actually the red army was pretty retarded, see 1920 Polish-Soviet War for a good example

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Not really

Battlefield death ratios on the Eastern Front weren't even 2:1 in favor of Germany.

>>33373709
>USSR: 3300000 taken/37400 died German POVs
>Germany: 5200000 taken/3600000 died Soviet POVs
I always thought that the commies treated prisoners worse.

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>>33373450
As noted in the article, this story is featured in Dan Carlin's Ghosts of the Ostfront, Ep 3. Fantastic stuff if you've never given it a listen.
>https://archiveofourown.org/works/5205554

>I let out a sigh and shake my head. I know what I must do. Orders are orders. We've all seen the price paid for the slightest insubordination. Those men who are executed on the battlefield are the lucky ones. Knowing my luck, if I disobeyed my orders it wouldn't be as simple as a pistol behind the ear. No, they might make an example of me and my relatives. I shudder as I recall the stories told in the officer's tent at mess time. Dark places with damp concrete floors. A room with a single metal chair soaked in old blood, and a pile of human tongues, noses, and ears, torn from the bodies of men unlucky enough to disobey orders or to be born to the wrong family.

>Shaking my head to dispel that unpleasant imagery from my mind, I relay the orders to advance the front to the men under my command. Looking confusedly at the rushing river and each other, one of the slanteyes that speaks Russian hesitantly approaches me.

>"Comrade Lt. Sir, I can't go in the water. I don't know how to swim." He looks back at the others, and they nod their agreement.

>I can't allow myself to be moved to pity. I know that it's better to drown a soldier than to show irresoluteness or insubordination to orders given from a commanding officer. Even if they all have to drown, it's better than what could happen to us all if we disobey an order. ... Steeling myself for what I must do, I pull out my service revolver, cock it, and point it at the face of the cucumber in front of me.

>"Get in the water you son of a bitch! I'll give you to the count of 3 to get in there, or you'll never go anywhere else."

>>33375276
how did they fucking win

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>>33375276
>"What do you mean 'drowned'!? I'll shoot you right here like a dog!" I keep my face impassive.

>"As you will Comrade Major, but I did report to you that there were no planks or logs to be found in the area, that the river is deep and swift, that it can't be forded. You told me to stop arguing and to just obey orders."

>"You blockhead! What a stupid way to destroy a whole company!" Having said this, his anger clearly deflates. I lower my arm to my side and relax a bit. I know that he and I both have done our duty and followed our orders. Now the Major must report this debacle to his superior officer. The Major clearly feels that he bears some fault for losing most of our men (imagine that) as he visibly steels himself for the call he has to make. Calling over a communications man, he places a call to the Colonel, his regimental commander.

>The Colonel arrives shortly in a groundcar.

>"I gave you five hours to cross the river!" he shouts as he enters. "Have you carried out the order!?" Looking like a mirror image of myself not half an hour before, the Major stands, salutes, and straightens his back.

>"No, Comrade Colonel, we've sustained heavy losses."

>"Losses?" The Colonel immediately calms down. He puts a hand to the stubble on his chin, looking thoughtful. "Well. That's fine. If there weren't any losses our heads would roll. What happened? Everything's quiet, I didn't hear a single shot from over here. Did they all get knifed or what?"

>>33375785
By having more bodies than Germany had lead or steel.

>>33375785
They actually had their shit together by 1943.

>>33374948
Only if they are commie.

>>33375276
>>33375795

It would suck to be russian

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>>33375795
>"No. Drowned. The company that was to cross over were all slanteyes. Never saw a river before. Naturally they drowned, since there was nothing to float on." The Colonel is incensed at this.

>"You son of a bitch! Why didn't you take some pontoons? We've been dragging a whole transport of pontoons around! I could give you as many as you want!"

>"I no longer need them Comrade Colonel. There are five cucumbers left in the first company, ten in the second, maybe twenty in the third. There's no one left to cross." The Colonel ponders for a moment.

>"Well, you'll just have to cross anyway. What counts is the fact that the order has been carried out, even if only one man makes it."

>>33373234
I don't think they were unarmed, but human wave tactics were sometimes used.

I think the "1 man gets a rifle, 1 man gets ammo" is a meme cancer spread by the mass-media.

Still, I historians claim they started to run out of man power at the end of the war.

I know for a fact (read articles & memoirs) that when Soviet Army reached the terrains of pre-war Poland, they would recruit any young men without giving him any training AT ALL.
They would just take them, give them a rifle, uniform, and send to battle.
Remember reading this one story from polish officer - he would find soldiers crying, because they ware given a PTRD and had no idea what to do with it, they never held a rifle in their lives. They tried to train them as quickly as they could.
They would drop like flies.

>>33376909
By the time they got to Berlin they were scouring their prisons for people to throw into the war. Which explains a lot of the rapes. Your average red army soldier who saw soldiering as a noble profession might not have raped anyone, but Ivan Ivanovich the Monster of Smolensk might have different ideas.

>>33376056
>It would suck to be russian
This has been true for all of their recorded history and will be true ad infinitum into the future.

>>33373234
Up to I would say before 1943 or 1944, when they discovered you can make two PPSH barrels from one Mosin Nagant in which unarmed soldiers became submachine gunners.

>>33376993
This is strange, my grandpa on my father side was a tanker in WWII. His tank was destroyed but him and everyone else made it out alive. My grandpa did get wounded, said he took some shrapnel in his ass cheek. Afterwards they took him back to Moscow where he chilled till the end of the war.

Maybe they just treated people from Moscow better.... I know after the war he went on to build to Migs and shit.

One out of four Russians died from WW2.


If you push people hard enough they will absolutely do anything to survive.

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>>33376980
>Which explains a lot of the rapes.
No it doesn't.
>Invading army is mostly subhumans
This does, but they were also eager to return to Germany any injuries they had suffered both imagined and factual.

There weren't really that many hardcore prison types employed by either nation in anything other than as forced labor and in penal units (usually being used for shitty forced labor, occasionally as shock cannon fodder). Although both sides' penal units managed to make horrific names for themselves the crimes the committed were a fairly small percentage of either side's brutality against the other. The Germans were brutal but they didn't exactly rape their way across a 1000km front 1600km wide like the slavs did.

>>33377167
What does that have to with the fact that being Russian is shitty?

>>33377213
Just saying it wasnt shitty for everyone

>>33377167
Tankers ware specialized technicians & higher ranks. They always had a shortage of soldiers who could into "technika", so it makes sense that they ware treated better.

>>33377213
>No it doesn't.
Being Russian explains all the rapes.

>>33375276
Astra Militarium/10.

i don't think they had food.. they probably had an abundance of guns though, from all the dead.

>>33376056
Not for long.

>>33376980
That's right, all accounts of their COs encouraging mass rapes are false and work of imperialist propaganda.

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No its not

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>>33377227
>Be Russian.
>Have treaty with Germany.
>Get surprised attacked.
>No declaration, and autistic leader REPEATEDLY states he wants to exterminate Slavs.
>Proceed to do so, rape, murder across Russia.
>Autistic Leader orders Germans to die in POINTLESS battles.
>Germans work POWs to death by the thousands.
>Russians counterattack.
>march across Russia.
>see burnt villages, mass graves, ect.
>get to Germany.
>payback.jpg
>70 years later a fat basement dweller calls Russians subhuman.

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>>33377247
If there were direct orders from high up, none survived or they are still secret. It was more give Germany what it deserves and don't tell because we'll blame you and you'll be shot if you can't control your men. Then your family will be shot. The same kind of thing Nazis were hanged for. Semantics in the end I suppose.

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>>33373234
It was done, the PLA also used it against the nationalists in China as well, there was possibly some instances of it being done by Iran in the war against Iraq. Though the latter would probably be best described as 'under-armed' as they've got 'a grenade' or rifle and expected to take a position held by machineguns, being blown up/gassed by artillery on the way in and strafed a bit by air power.

In terms of the Soviet Union- especially the pre-amalgamation of the Soviet states. They basically had jack shit in the way of armaments and industry, they had agriculture and manpower though which was all done by hand. Literally 1920's to the late 1930's expanses of the Soviet Union would not have looked entirely out of place in the late 1700s, they where that far behind in industrial and technical ability so it all had to be bought in from 'friendly' countries that where willing to take hard currency (gold, silver etc) for armaments. A lot of that was completely gone after WW1 when the Tzar was in power, so for the bumblefuck leftists, they really didn't have very much at all to purchase anything.

In lieu of having jack shit and not even a pot to piss in, not a lot of choice!
If they had guns, they would have given them out to soldiers, but they didn't and had to send them in anyway. Doing it at gunpoint during WW2 also happened, but often they where doing it anyway for the motherland, their families and the fact they had the indignation of being attacked by Germany which wasn't going to be stopped any other way.

>>33377320
I suck dicks all day for fun and profit.

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>>33377320
>be german
>have treaty with russia
>they are communists and have been trying to infiltrate and subvert the west by any and all means for 20 years
>their destructive ideology is violently opposed to yours which is constructive
>they have already met in combat and murder each other in their homelands lest the other gain a foothold
>der fuhrer has stated many times he wants to make earth a better place for humans to live
>decalre war to stop communism from spreading
>bankers cast their lot against germany
>lose war to stop cancer from spreading
>as a result it has a couple years to metastasize unchecked in eastern europe
>russia kills pows in the millions
>many russian citizens realize they fought the wrong enemy but can't do anything other than try to survive
>iron curtain lifts, atrocities of the east are revealed at long last to the wider public
>communists already in the west stop calling themselves communists to distance themselves from it but the rhetoric stays the same
>the great sacrifice of germany probably took decades off the life of the USSR
>but the KGB knows how to play the long game and decades of indoctrination in the occupied eastern block will poison the west when they are reunited
Russians are subhuman.

>>33377320
Rape ratio heavily leans Russian.

Most post war journals and interviews with people caught between (Poles, eastern Russian border people) say that they would take the Jerrys over the Reds any day. While the Nazis were stern and uncompromising they at least would feed the cow after taking the milk at gun point. Russians would burn down whole farms and rape anyone they could find while they made fathers watch. These are not German reports mind you. While rape at the hands of Nazis did occur it paled in comparison to how the Soviets behaved with anyone they came acrossed once they were on the offensive.

Germans were assholes
Russians were monsters

>>33373234
Not really, underequipped in other ways perhaps but outside of some truly disorganised front line reactions in the early part of the German invasion not going into battle literally without arms. It was also never a policy ordered from above because it's fucking retarded.
>>33373260
>Parts of pre-WW1 wars: Yes.
>parts of WW1: Yes.
The Soviet Union did not exist pre-WW1 and not during the time Russia was active in WW1 either.

>>33377320
Oh, the krauts got what they deserved, for sure. Members of my family ware either slave workers or got killed in death camps.

Still, Russians just rape. Because they are savages.
They raped Polish women just as well as they went on. They just didn't have as much time as in Germany when the war ended.

There was a Russian officer, that was writing poems.
In one he wrote something like "my heart cries, when I hear a raped woman scream "But im Polish, not German..."
He got executed for treason for that.

This is one famous case:
https://translate.google.pl/translate?hl=pl&sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPotyczka_%C5%BCo%C5%82nierzy_polskich_i_radzieckich_w_Lesznie_w_1947

tl;dr
Fuck Russians & Germans equally.

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>all these jewish infiltrated amerilards and pollock subhumans bragging about muh rapes when USSR lost 18 millions civs 10 mill military losses 3.5 of them as german POWs
Lol just shut up you fucking spergs no one fucking care about german """"people"""
They're monsters and deserve to be nuked as well as nazi collaborators and amerifats crying about "WE KILLED ONLY COMMUNISTS NO PEOPLE" or "WE DEFEATED WRONG ENEMY". I think you should go to your nearest Ashan.Go to their men's restroom (assuming your gender). Look promptly at the Urinal. See that round mint floating there in what looks like residue piss? Go ahead and grab that and place it directly under your tongue. Its the latest progressive trend and everyone is doing it! The real high doesn't kick in until you go look in the mirror. Go ahead take a nice long look. After you have fulfilled your homosexual desires fucking bash your god damn head into the sink repeatedly until the mint under your tongue begins to taste like a black-cock foreskin.

>>33377517
>russian niggers think you measure deaths as how effective you were in war

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>>33377517
>jewish infiltrated amerilards and pollock subhumans
No no, you got something wrong there, its the Russians that are subhumans.

>when USSR lost 18 millions civs 10 mill military losses
The same soviets that murdered 10 million Kulaks, exterminated entire Russian middle-class & high-class, and starved millions of Ukrainians.

This is why Russians are consider slaves & subhumans - only they defend & glorify their own oppressors.

>Lol just
I didn't even bother to read the rest of your spew, Vatnik.

>>33377539
Im not defending USSR
Im defending my grandparents
3 of 4 my great grandparents died trying to stop nazis from killing their families and then subhuman potato headed polack says that they died for some "COMMUNUSTIK IDEAS"
Kill yourself faggot
no one cares about your neighbour's grandma raped by some criminal drafted from Kolyma or Ukraine

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>>33377517
I really don't know which side you are on.
If you care about civilian deaths why are you saying Germans were the bad guys? Communism is basically all about murdering civilians whilst simultaneously telling them it's for the greater good.

>>33377558
Then find some other way to justify it. My great-grandparents stacked filth like your grandpa in Finland.

>>33377558
I never wrote that, you illiterate peace of shit.
Learn to use your brain, although I know it's hard for someone with FAS.
Vatniks really ARE dumb...

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>>33377573
>the Russians that are subhumans.
YOU are subhuman
there's nothing subhuman about fighting against threat unlike collaboration like most of pollocks did
Peace Jewbiedenko

>>33374948
>Died in captivity

They probably just let them out of the gulag, so they froze as free men.

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>>33377572
>My great-grandparents stacked filth like your grandpa in Finland.

Mah Suomi

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>>33377582
>Peace Jewbiedenko
I don't even blame him. Malnutrition & fetal alcohol syndrome is a terrible mix.

>>33377607
t.Cuckolic

>>33373234
The Leningrad Opolcheniye divisions (~30k men) raised for the defense of Leningrad were so poorly equipped that some in the infantry regiments were sent to the front with only grenades.

https://books.google.com/books?id=gS6sAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA33#v=onepage&q&f=false

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>>33377655
>the last refuge of the weak
The communists were a global threat. The only tragedy of WW2 is that Germany invaded the west before the east. The west would have sustained larger casualties in dealing with Germany but both communism and fascism would have died before the turn of the decade. And we probably wouldn't have jews, Israel, or problems with the middle east like we do now, communists sowing white guilt wouldn't have polluted the universities and communism wouldn't have stopped the elevation of muds in Africa and South America.
Sounds like a win on every front.
Communism destroyed millions of people and set the world back at least a hundred years in the process, it's hard to say what the toll was exactly because it is still counting who knows where we would be if they hadn't fucked humanity out of a century.
Your grandpa was a baddie. Sorry rat.

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>>33377677
>he fell for bad and good sides
Hows daily circumscision going?

>>33377677
>a hundred years in the process
Not a hundo, but it was one of the few moments in human history, when there was a regress in development.

I didn't even know how pizza, popcorn or sweet-sour sause tastes, until communism fell.

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>>33377694
Again with the deflection. Male genital mutilation is both reprehensible and dying.
How's the daily brainwashing that still persists in the former Soviet bloc? The facts that de-Stalinization was a failure and you subhumans are regressing and somehow forgetting just how bad communism was?

>>33377699
70 years has been spent fighting them and their fallout. They existed and necessitated suppression long before that.

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>>33377694
>all this moral relativism
>everyone has done bad things occasionally
>murdering millions upon millions of people or supporting the regimes that do it don't make you a bad guy
I bet you think sucking dick doesn't make you a cocksucker.

>on the other hand, if you're likening protecting your nation's global interests to murdering millions of people for the sake of it
>in that case you're an absurdist and probably russian

>>33377320

>be German
>have treaty with Soviets
>they help you rip Poland apart
>the Soviets start to inflitrate and attack your close ally Romania
.
.
.

kys

>>33373234
>Is the whole"sending unarmed men into combat" thing historically accurate for the Soviet Union?
No, they had a large amount of firearms. Human "waves" are extremely simplified view on legit infantry tactic. First wave kills machine-guns and takes first line of trenches, second wave moves forward.

>>33377710
>you subhumans
People like you with talking like that are just making communists position stronger. They killed or scared everyone who dared to call people by that term.

>>33377665
It's a myth, Leningrad was one of the center of Soviet industry, it could produce enough firearms for everyone, some of production were transported to mainland through blockade.

>>33377572

Except youre assuming that "communism" aka the first non-aristocratic form of government in Europe in the early 20th century was the only committing atrocities.

Youre forgetting that from the fall of the Roman empire up until the end of WW2, the ruling monarchs were pillaging and raping weaker foes. From colonies, to neighbors, to own peasants, people were getting tortured, abused, robbed, murdered, exiled...

The reason why "communism's" numbers are so high, is because the turn of the century and the aftermath of WW1, saw alot of technological advances which allowed us to accurately estimate death tolls and total casualties.

Not to mention the population boom of the early 20th century inflated the numbers compared to the 30 year war, where a huge chunk of the total population vanished in the most brutal and horrible way.

Same with the holocaust. The Nazi war crimes and camps were horrible, but put into context of the name hardly an "anomaly".

Thats the beauty of history. The Americans had just spent 100 years of genocide (deny it all you want, it happened), the brits were genociding locals in all their colonies and same goes for the French and Russians.

There were no "good guys" before the end of WW2. Sadly history labelled the victors as morally superior and cast all past atrocities onto the Nazis and later the "communists".

Dont forget that France and the Dutch had bloody wars with colonies after WW2 ended!

In short. Not a single form of government was "the good guy" in the 20th century.

>>33377775
>It's a myth

It's not, read the source I provided. They even made a point to use the Opolcheniye divisions in propaganda; that these divisions were so patriotic as to offset the lack of training/equipment.

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>>33377794
I just can't even.
I'm responding to a troll aren't I? Because this rhetoric is so shallow, stereotypical, and circuitous it has to be a joke.

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This thread is a testament to /k/'s vast obsession with WWII and Russia in general.

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>men
No, by the time they ran out of weapons to hand out the heebs were sending in women and children.

>>33373234
No.

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>>33375795
mfw someone uses a pic of my milsurp

>>33377834

Not an argument.

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>>33377811
>read the source I provided
>1962
I wonder where did he find soviet reports about actual situation, if they were unclassified only in 90th. Shit like " infantry regiments were sent to the front with only grenades." didn't happened, because they had lack of grenades, according to documents, lol.
1st division had 947 officers (regular staffing 1189), 1327 NCOs (2312), 9828 privates (11425).
They had
9739 rifles (suppose to have 10538)
69 heavy machine guns (166)
128 light machine guns (404)
no AA machine guns (suppose to have 25) and no PPD (suppose to have 1214)
Lack of artillery (12 mortars from 150 required) and logistics, but in general commander wrote that division is in battle ready state and asked for more equipment and officers.
Document dates for July 9 1941, division began fighting July 26 1941.

>>33377407
>holds 1000 bullets
>shoots 1000 bullets in a second
>how to turn a very specific thing into swiss cheese the gun

>>33377897
FODS=MAGGOTS
also not an argument, proffer one or fuck off soviet filth

>>33377794
Underrated post.

>>33377948
9939 guns for 13291 personnel doesn't counts as "send unarmed".

>>33377320
>surprise attacked
yeah nah

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>>33377320

>Like Stalin was just trying to be a nice guy and those big meanie Krauts just were sooo RUDE to him so Russians liek HAD to rape thousands of Germans because that's only fair!!!!

>>33377517

>Deaths=role in victory

KEK

Stalin purged his best and paid the fucking price. The red army going into Barbarossa was a colossal logistical nightmare, with insubordination and desertion running rampant, no surprise due to failure to equip, feed, and fully mobilize forces.

Running away from your squad and getting shot in the process is not some valiant sacrifice that defeated the Germans. A lot of the casualties early on were just due to the cluster fuck that was pre-1943 Russian armed forces.

Figures lie and liars figure. If a bunch of Ivan's (or any other soldiers) ran head first into an artillery barrage, it would be pointless lives lost and would have nothing to do with victory.

>>33377517

Also kek at "MUH LOST CIVILIANS!"

Starvation due to shit Communist planning led to millions dead as well. And the NKVD taking out whoever Papa Iosif didn't like that week. But AMERIFATS BRAINWASHED BY JEWS OMG.

>>33377407
Spoken like a true fool who knows jack shit about how the eastern front really was, and to show his butthurt, dogma derived from emotion and lies and overall stupidity regarding the topic proceeds to call Russians subhuman like a retard.

>>33377769
>Things that didn't happen.