Why have big pistol calibers like 9mm and .45 dominated the handgun

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Pic is one of the best 9mms available, with .74 inches average expanded diameter. But that isn't worth much if it misses it's mark anyways.

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And here's what allows a .32 to achieve acceptable penetration. Lehigh Xtreme Cavitator bullets.

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>>33365953
i agree. i want one of these for pocket carry

i live in cali and they actually have a cucked version with a useless cross-bolt safety on it. not sure if worth it

>>33366010
.32 FMJ already penetrates over 12" though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-APtfWivQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haq4-W5WkoI

You could make this thread about any number of cartridges. A few cartridges tend to tick enough boxes for most people and whichever of those has the head start tends to get entrenched.

>>33365953
People seem to forget than .32ACP was a very popular military cartridge for many decades. Just look at the French and their Ruby pistols.

I'd feel fine carrying a Colt 1903 in .32 ACP with FMJs, though more modern boolits like this would be preferable:
>>33366010

Anything below .30 Luger is getting questionable, though.

That said, I prefer .45 ACP because it's the cartridge I have the most experience with and I trust the gun I have chambered in it.

>>33365953
Because as soon as you start loading the mag you're going to panic at what a fucking small round it is and run out to buy something bigger if you haven't got it already.

>>33366144
It's heavy and slams the shit out of your trigger finger worse than a hammer-slappy MAC, but it's fantastically well made.

>>33365953
because a modern .380 is smaller and lighter than an old school .32acp by a wide margin and anything smaller is for the most part unusably small

a NAA guardian .32acp and .380acp uses the same frame. a LCP is smaller than your typical direct blowback .32acp ring of fire shitheap from jennings/bryco/cobra

only use for it would be to make a subcompact double stack with ~12 rounds instead of 6-7 for CC but with a well designed hollowpoint it would be like using 9mm ball ammo for CC... that underpenetrates

>>33366604

Lol are you serious? From my experience the only people who die from 22s and other similarly shit rounds (including 32s) get hit from point blank range right to the head. I work in Memphis' trauma ED so I have a good bit of experience built over the past 5 years. Don't carry a puny round.

>>33365953
>Why have big pistol calibers like 9mm and .45 dominated the handgun market, while .32 ACP is so rarely used?

Because 9mm is essentially the epitome of semi automatic handgun calibers. .45 is a meme dragged into the twenty first century by 1911 users.

>while .32 ACP is so rarely used?
Because 9 >.32


>If you compared the chances of hitting a vital zone on an attacker from a distance and in a short time, the guy mag dumping his high capacity, easy to shoot .32 with FMJs would beat a glock 43 JHP shooter every time.

And the guy mag dumping his full size steel framed double stack 9 would beat the guy with a 32,basing the argument for 32 on the potential to beat a specific handgun chambered in 9 is silly.

9 became the top dog because it kills fuckers dead in a small package with negligible recoil, with modern defensive ammunition it has ascended even higher and there is really no point using anything else.

>>33366812
I'm not saying it's in any way preferable, but .32 ACP will do its job if you do yours.

It's nearly as combat proven as 9x19 Parabellum and .45 ACP.

There is a litany of superior cartridges, but .32 ACP is perfectly viable as a self-defense cartridge.

But again, why carry it when modern firearms chambered in 9x19 Parabellum provide a smaller overall package, (usually) a greater capacity and ultimately superior terminal ballistics.

That said, I reiterate, I'd be fine carrying a .32 ACP pistol, if no other option were available.

Again, that being said, I don't because I don't have to.

>>33366604
>carrying a 1903
I'd be real sad if the cops took it away after I had to use it.

>>33366856
Same, that's why my Webley Mk.VI is not my nightstand gun.

I was just using it to illustrate a popular pistol chambered in .32 ACP.

They, and the 1908, are really quite purrrty guns.

>>33366866
True and true.

.32 ACP and old calibres appreciation thread?

>>33365953
>big pistol calibers like 9mm
Big? Plz.

>>33366911
OP might be a yuro
it would explain his fascination with garbage like spanish ruby pistols/muhhistory and his inability to innately understand that a round magazine of .32acp isn't better than a 6 round magazine of .380acp when the former can barely get FBI minimum spec penetration with ball ammo

that being said if a company that wasn't the kikes colt had make their centennial reissue of the 1903 pocket pistol mad an actually not shit or at least not heinously expensive copy of a 1908 colt pocket hammerless in .380 I'd buy the shit out of it/ As it sits you can find a sub 50% bluing functional example for 6-800 dollarydoos or around a grand for a beat up .380/good condition .32acp 1903. The examples i've seen look like they've been through the ringer cosmetically but the tolerances are so much higher than any modern handgun ieven 75-100 years later.

>>33365953
Because until pretty recent developments in defensive loadings, .32ACP would provide pretty anemic penetration.

>>33366846
>why carry it when modern firearms chambered in 9x19 Parabellum provide a smaller overall package, (usually) a greater capacity and ultimately superior terminal ballistics.

its all about how well you can shoot it.
32 acp is easy as fuck to control which is its main advantage imo

Because handgun calibers are already notoriously bad at actually killing people and .32 ACP and .38 are fucking garbage tier. Underpowered, outdated, and unreliable. 9mm, .45, .357 Sig and 10mm are the only acceptable handgun calibers.

>>33367654
t.Millenial fudd

>>33367654
>no .357 or .44 Magnum

>>33367641
If I want a controllable pistol I'll get a Beretta 84 and load it with Underwood XTPs, 13+1rds, little recoil, and enough penetration even through denim. It also looks badass and fits in my pocket.
>inb4 Paul Bunyan

Of course, if you want a LOT of easy to control shots, then a Five Seven with a 30rd magazine is relatively compact still and has little recoil. That said, I know nothing about it's ballistics.

>>33367654
You're the kind of guy who thinks Platt wouldn't have BTFO'd those feds beyond belief if only they had .45s or 10mms, aren'r you?

>>33367662
.357 and 10mm aren't Fudd tier you fucking retard. If anything, shit like .32 ACP and .38 are fudd calibers. They're old as fuck and the only reason people still use them is because that's what their daddy carried in his police revolver.
>>33367680
>.44 magnum
If you actually CCW something in that caliber consider suicide with it. .357 and .44 magnum both carry the same problems as .32 and .38 in that they're outdated as fuck revolver calibers, except with the opposite problems. Overpowered and more difficult to control than necessary.

>>33367709
>MUH STOPPAN POWAH
>not a fudd tho

>>33367709
>bitches about calibres being old
>mentions 9mm and 45, both 100+ years old
>only argument is "MUH STOPPAN POWAH"
You dear anon are the retard and fudd

>>33366789
>>33367685
.380 is the shittiest of shit calibers. You are way better off with .32, assuming you're using a decent gun with it, because no .380 hollow point can hit 12" and expand to a decent width.

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>>33367789
Nobody is talking about .380 hollowpoints you absolute sperg baron.

>>33367809
So you want to make a .355 inch hole instead of a .32 hole? Really worth the added recoil and reduced capacity.

>>33365953
>>33366010
>>33366144
>>33366560
>>33366604
>>33366846
>>33367641
>>33367884
>>33367738
>>33367721


ITT retards and trolls.

>>33367923
Thanks for letting us know you're the retard.

>>33367923
>state facts
>trolling
ITT retards and trolls

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>>33367923

>>33365953
>There are no decent double stack polymer .32s on the market
Feels bad

Guns are supposed to kill things, not piss them off. One larger shot can be more effective than three smaller shots if the smaller shots don't penetrate well enough or make a thick enough wound channel. With smaller rounds you have a hard time balancing the two and thick coats make for way better body armor than you might think. Doesn't help tungsten is off the table because SCURRY COP KILLA BOOLITS.

>>33366706
This is also true. Perceived effectiveness matters a lot more to most people than actual effectiveness because they simply don't understand terminal ballistics well enough to gauge actual effectiveness.

>>33369954
But the Xtreme Cavitator bullets go 12 inches through 4 layers of denim. Sure they don't go as far through steel or glass, but then hollow points have bigger problems there.

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>>33369888
Real shame.

But at least there's the Beretta 81, like Tony Montana used, it's reasonably compact and holds 12+1rds of .32ACP, it's metal framed, but that also means softer recoil. The 84 is in .380ACP and holds 1 more round.

There seems to be a fair amount of space on the inside of the magazine body, so I'm thinking it could be possible to design a compatible magazine with slightly higher capacity, maybe 2 or 3 rounds more, by studying how MecGar makes their 18rd flush fitting mags for the Beretta 92FS.

>>33370213
This, the proper bullet can let a smaller cartridge reach the penetration minimum.

I wonder how well 7.65mm Luger would perform with +P XTC? Might actually be quite viable.

>>33370240
No need for mecgar magic, you just need to make it with 3 stacks, if they could be squeezed in. Put a panel in separating 2 from the other maybe.
>>33370265
Why use a bottlenecked round? Might as well just go 9mm at that point.

>semi-rimmed auto
No thanks

>>33370355
>can still be used in reliable double stacks
Literally doesn't matter

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My grandfather shot a big black man in the chest with a .32 ACP and he turned around and walked away from it. He eventually died but it has no stopping power whatsoever and if the guy didn't decide to retreat he could have still continuing assaulting his victim.

It was a self defense situation ovv

>>33370319
>you just need to make it with 3 stacks
Que?

>>33372276
> Anecdotal evidence from an old man
You've convinced me, anon

>>33366604
>People seem to forget than .32ACP was a very popular military cartridge for many decades. Just look at the French and their Ruby pistols.
That's because back then they mostly used it to execute and fill mass graves.

The French also rode horse cavalries right into machine gun fire and got killed by the hundreds of thousands.

>>33374311
>French use .32
>Germans use .32
>English use .32
>Belgians use .32
>Austria Hungary use .32
>Russia use .32
it was a fightin round for a lot of people, not just an execution poece

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>>33370265
>penetration minimum
I like how you think this is a thing. There is no minimum, you want all of the penetration possible without sacrificing expansion and cavitation.

>>33365953
Because there are NO high capacity .32acp pistols in the entire world, much less ones that are easy to shoot.

Also, as a factor of its relatively poor popularity, it's hard to find and expensive in any flavor of bullet and the massive 1 acceptable defensive load is $2 a shot.

>>33374407
I heard in France they came out with a double stack polymer 20 round full size chambered in it but haven't been able to confirm, any franceanons able to confirm?

>>33366144

Reminds me of a joke my grandfather used to tell.

Chines guy goes to the eye doctor. Doctor says "You have a cataract".

Chines guy says, "No, I have a Rincoln..."

Made me laugh every time...

>>33374343
>Germans use .32
In their single stack subcompact pocket-carry pistols designed for their undercover secret police. Not in a fighting gun. And they swapped to .380 as soon as they could.
>English use .32
Not .32acp.
>Belgians use .32acp
When's the last time they were anything other than a footnote to a battle?
>Austria Hungary use .32
Austria Hungary no longer exists, and hasn't for almost 100 years. Bloody lot of good their mousefart guns did them.
>Russia use .32
Not .32acp, and it sucked almost as bad.

>>33374432
If so, news to me. AFAIK the only "pistol" that ever entered production that held more than 9 rounds of .32acp was the closed-bolt semi-only version of the vz.61 Skorpion. And that's a pistol in name only.

>>33372819
If you can make a 2 stack magazine, and a 4 stack magazine, what's the problem with 3 stacks in a casket style?

>>33374395
Wow if only you were there to tell all those professional ballistics scientists when they concluded that over 18" of penetration was overkill and put bystanders at risk.

>>33374407
>no high capacity .32s
that's just untrue. Ever heard of the Beretta 81? Also some Taurus junk pistol, and probably others.

>>33372276
>My grandfather shot a big black man in the chest with a .32 ACP and he turned around and walked away from it. He eventually died but it has no stopping power whatsoever

kek

>>33374556
>beretta 81
>12 rounds
>"high capacity"
>invented 36 years after the BHP while being of similar size and holding 1 fewer of a significantly smaller round
>some Taurus junk pistol
Taurus has produced exactly 2 pistols chambered in .32acp: The PT132 midsize (10rd flush or 12rd bumper-extended mags), and the TCP 732 (microcompact single-stack 6rd mag with pinky extension)
So again.
>12 rounds (with extension)
>"high capacity"

Granted I was wrong with >>33374519
but 12 rounds is hardly considered high capacity by anyone's standards, especially in relatively new midsize/"compact" pistols who have equivalents holding 15-16rds of 9mm.

>>33365953
Yeaaahhhh...about that.

Come back to me when someone produces a duty-sized .32acp pistol that holds 23+ rounds in a flush-fit mag. Then we'll talk. Because currently you're able to get 20 rounds of 9mm in a flushfit mag with a couple different duty-sized pistols.

>>33374556
>what's the problem with 3 stacks in a casket style?
A second divider eats width and with 3 columns of 1 you're not getting the benefit of a stagger-stack mag so you won't actually gain any capacity for a significantly more complicated and failure-prone mag.

If you live in a place where you won't face extra risk of legal ass rape for mag dumping someone, than you would just firing a few rounds, this sounds like an okay idea.

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>>33374662
>a 12 round double stack compact pistol isn't high capacity

>>33374727
Only 1 divider, sepperating 2 stacks from the third.

>>33374685
I'll give it to OP that .32 could make sense in a compact gun that can only hold 6 rounds of 9mm. Full sized .32s would be pointless, except maybe as PDWs.

>>33374801
>4" barrel
>"compact"
They're midsize pistols who have similar or identically sized cousins in 9mm with the same or higher capacity, so no. It's not high capacity.

>>33374801
I don't particularly see how to make a half-doublestack, half-singlestack mag merge without causing feed problems, but I'm not an engineer. It might work I suppose.

>>33370240
>be Beretta
>make .32acp version of your .380
>it somehow holds less rounds
bet they had rimlock issues with the mag at 14/15rds.

still love and car my p32 though.

>>33374444
kek has spoken

Why doesn't anybody create a rimless centerfire upgrade to 22lr? That's what this world needs. That way you could have a pocket pistol with a 50 round capacity. Repeal the Hughes Amendment and make it a machine pistol... that'd be some serious firepower.

>>33374973
They did. 1905 calls with its .25acp.

>>33374973
Because it wouldn't penetrate enough to do shit dumbass. Why not just use bird shot, wow it has hundreds of bullets!

>>33375064
It would scare the piss out of anybody downrange of it.

>>33375077
As does any gunshot. Plus if muh fear is what you're after just get a speaker to blast the sound of racking a shotgun

>>33374395
Semantics; if it can reach 12 inches of penetration even with denim, it's passable.

Yes you can have something that penetrates more, that cavitates more, but the statement wasn't "there is nothing better", but "it's good enough to actually be viable"

>>33374556
Have you seen a quad stack magazine? That shit is not trivial to make work, especially reliably. And you want to fit this in a pistol grip?
Nevermind that having a magazine where a double stack and single stack meet must be a nightmare on it's own, unless you mean three separate single stacks, for which I should smack you.

It would seriously just make more sense to make a new pistol and have the magazine be like on a Steyr GB, where it's double-stacked, dual feed, so you can stack left/right the entire length of the mag, like a subgun or AR mag.

>>33376021
Good point about dual feed mags, I admit the casket idea was a bit much, particularly with semi rimmed .32.

What about triple stack with a wide \/ shaped follower, single feed with one side slightly lower than the other so it feeds later. Would take some precise geometry but might work. Rounds would be hexagonally packed in the body

As soon as i posted I realized the last 3 rounds would never feed.

W shaped follower then, with cutouts on the top of the magazine so the side parts of the W could protrude in order to push the last rounds out

>>33365953
Why was .32 phased out / fell out of style?

It seems the "bigger" trend started with the adoption of the 45

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I'd carry my M1900 in .32acp with 100% confidence. Very reliable and accurate.

More reliable than my CZ-70 in .32acp, which is pretty funny when you think about it.

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Anyone have any experience/thoughts on the Beretta Tomcat .32? Thinking about getting it as my first gun/CC.

>>33379656
Because people figured out how2shortrecoil locked breach (particularly with J. Browning showing everyone how to do a slide); thus you could have more energy and mass with projectiles without either awful recoil or heavy as fuck guns.

That said, if you've ever handled a locked breach .32 or .380 (like a Remington 51, Llama, or the more recent Browning Black Label 1911), those things are gracious, light as a feather in recoil, and have SUPER light actions even a demented old grandma with arthritis and MS could rack.

>>33381345
Thanks, that makes sense although I don't understand the physics as to why that makes larger calibers easier to handle.

But why aren't there a bunch of knock-offs of the Vector mechanism in 10mm+ then?

>>33379656
anemic and obsolete compared to the modern trio of 9mm, .40, and .45

>>33380119
I like the idea of it, I'm thinking of getting my mom one for her CC because of the tip-up barrel. That said if you can actually rack the slide on a gun I'd get a locked breech in something hotter than 32.

>>33381402
That doesn't make sense as to why .32 and .25 would have been a popular standard in the first place. .380 used to be a 'bigger' caliber around the turn of the 20th century than it is now for a semi-auto handgun.

That's coming from ~.38 revolvers, then down to .32/.25/.380, then back up to 45 and 9mm and such.

>anemic
Shot placement >> 0.1 inch wider hole
There's a reason .380 is still so popular, it's so easy to handle

In this entire thread there hasn't been any proof that .32 would be better than a .380.

>>33381477
I would still bet money that two torso hits from either would be enough either way.

>>33380119
Didn't those have problems with cracked frames?

>>33381495
Probably but .380 is 10 cents cheaper per round and you can reload it. I mean you might be able to reload .32 as well but reloading 380 is already a huge pain in the ass unless you have a child's hands.

So all in all .380 > .32

>>33381524
Of course. 380 is easier to find handguns for too.

>>33381388
Because the Vector mechanism has no real appreciable effect in semi-auto, it feels like basically any blowback. It does help lower muzzle climb in full-auto though.

Also you need to fit that shit somewhere, the Vector isn't fat just because of aesthetics.

>>33381503
They're not rated for hotter ammo IIRC

>>33381477
As has been said several times in the thread, hollow point 380 is literally useless, meaning only FMJ will penetrate adequately, and at that point you're better off using .32.

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The CZ83 in .32ACP holds 15+1. So does the Bersa Thunder double stack model. The Beretta 81 is excellent too and a little smaller.

>>33365953
Well mang, there are subcompact 9mm pistols that are so small now with good mag capacity that there's just not much point in going with a smaller caliber. 9mm is as recoil friendly as smaller rounds. Why go smaller?

>>33382025

9mm gets downright painful in tiny handguns.

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>>33382025
>9mm has the same recoil as smaller rounds

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.32acp guns are nice because of how comfortable they are to conceal.

My M1900 next to my "subcompact" glock 29.

>>33374921

The 84 is kind of a weird model in terms of variety

I mean they sell a single stack version of it that doesn't make it lighter or narrower for reasons I'm not quite sure.

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Why are .32 pistols so aethstetic?

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>>33382413

Because they just don't make them like they used to.

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>>33382413
>literally posts ugliest .32 ever made

>>33365953
Honestly I'd love to see a full auto subcompact in .32acp, magdump 7 rds in 1 second

To absolutely rek exactly one person with it

>>33382489

I have been searching for a P230/232 in .32ACP. At this point I'm convinced all the pictures on the internet are fake and the .32 model is an elaborate troll.

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>>33382489
>Mauser 1934 ugliest .32
Try again

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>>33382568
They definitely hard to find. I've never seen more than one for sale on the web at any given time.

There's some other walther PP inspired designs in .32acp out there, like the VZ70, but they're not as nice as the Sig or Walther would be.

>>33381930
The only ammo posted ITT about .32 is the lehigh one which isn't a hollow point, and it performs worse than the .380 version.

Besides that there's more options in .380 from lehigh like the fracturing round that seem to do okay.

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>>33382456

>>33382617

I have a P232 in .380, the CZ70, and a decent collection of other .32 automatics. The .32 P232 is the hole in my collection. I've never managed to see one for sale, let alone in person.

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>>33382709

It gets better.

>>33382682
>the .32 lehigh isn't a hollow point
no shit, that's the point. If you're using FMJ anyways you might as well use .32.
>the 380 version performs better
doesn't matter, .32 still hits 12" of penetration
>fracturing .380 does okay
wrong, only FMJ penetrates adequately.

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>>33382765
Reminds me of pic related

>>33382766
Look at the tests from the rest of lehigh's .380 line dude.

>doesn't matter, .32 still hits 12" of penetration
Not with denim.

>>33381450
It's anemic because you get to choose between FMJ's that overpenetrate and JHP's that underpenetrate by a lot in a round without enough muzzle velocity to expand a soft point. Couple this with the FMJ's not carrying enough energy to penetrate or break major bones (femur, scapula, pelvis) and it really doesn't do anything well other than fit in pockets.

>>33367662
>10mm
>fudd

Wow

>>33382315
Why are you comparing a double to a single stack weapon?

Go get a g43/2 and then talk.

>>33382835
yes it does, that's the whole point. 12" through 4 layers of denim, further otherwise.

>>33365953
.45 and 9mm are balistically great rounds

Their effectiveness has promoted their production, which in turn encouraged firearms manufactures to design for those rounds, as well as made the rounds cheap (aka apealling to the buyer).

.32 acp is a fine round, as is .380

But lets be serious: you can magdump 9mm with just as much accuracy as .32acp

>>33383331
>let's be serious: you can magdump 9mm with just as much accuracy as .32
oh wait you can't because one has more recoil

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>>33383331

A full or midsize 9mm sure. I love 9mm. After messing around with a few not-quite- pocket gun .32s like Colt 1903s, Beretta 81s, and CZ83s I've found they occupy a niche with a weird perfect combination of characteristics.

In something like the 81 or CZ83 you get an easily concealable gun that still gives a full grip, capacity similar to a full size 9mm, and recoil so negligible it makes even novice shooters look like Jerry Miculek. I think they may be the perfect defensive handgun for new shooters or people with weaker grip strength. Experienced shooters can make better use. Shame the double stack small .32 isn't really made anymore.

Your average buyer wants the biggest bullet in the smallest gun, where I think these make a decent balance.

>>33366144
I had one and it sucked ass, magazine constantly fell out when I fired it, and even after I replaced the mag release/catch with a factory upgrade.

>>33384664
This is a stupid meaningless chart that doesn't take into account the shooters skill, what ammo was used, and if the gun was a piece of shit (which almost every .22/.25/.32 used in shootings would be). I've also never seen the source or the sample size.

>>33384769
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

>>33382413
pawn shop near me has a Tashcinen pistole, hes kinda got it hidden a bit, not sure what he wants for it

>>33384769
It also doesn't take into consideration number of shots fired, or differentiate different gauges of shotgun.

It also includes shootings that resulted in no injury.

>>33384811
Fair enough, impressive study. My other points still stand, people should stop posting the chart without context.

>>33384811

That was a good read. Thanks anon!

>>33367789
Hollow points are Fucking memes and always have been.

How many times does the lethality chart have to be posted here before you fags get it?

Penetration and placement are the ONLY things that matter.

>>33385094
>hollow points are fucking memes
That's the point of my post you fucking retard. What are you saying?

>>33374662
lie, what is PT-57?? 13+1 of 32acp

>>33385748
Google says it's 12+1, source?

>>33385927
These are factory 15 round magazines
http://www.falconarmas.com.br/carregador-pistola-taurus-pt-57-cal-7-65-op-tamanho-p9093/

>>33383437
Yeah, a 92A1 Brigadier is impossible to control in rapid fire!

>>33386220
I never said that it was. Do you know how to read?

>>33382456
So pretty.

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>>33374662
Are you retarded? The barrel isn't a full 4" and my pinky hangs off of mine but it's somehow not compact compared to a gun with a full grip and over a 4.5" barrel?

The 81 is 12+1 because of the case taper,the 84/85/BDA is 13+1 and the BHP is a true 15+1 flush

>>33374921
Case taper mang. Look at the mag bodies

>>33381838
But that's wrong. The vectors "recoil reduction" works because of the whole action is in front of the hand, not above it. People jerk off over matebas and pl-14s and then they get the vectors design wrong. It's not supposed to be a magic weight that pulls the bore down

>>33372276
> died
> No stopping power

Aim 32acp at head for no stopping power pls.

>>33384908
Graphs are always going to be skewed. Less skilled people will opt for things regarded as the best since less skilled users need more advantage than more skilled users in most things. Where as people more skilled or informed might opt for something else more confidently even if it's not quite as effective.

>>33365953
Because based on statistic analysis, anything smaller than 38acp is a significantly inferior choice.

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>>33365953
>Why have big pistol calibers like 9mm and .45 dominated the handgun market, while .32 ACP is so rarely used?

Because you carry the largest gun you possibly can while still having good concealment.

The fact that this is even a question and people are agreeing with you shows /k/'s depth of gun knowledge is still shit.

Let me spell it out: handguns are shit at killing people. Almost 80% of people shot with handguns survive. The more energy you deliver to your assailant and the bigger the bullet, the higher your chances of stopping them before they hurt you.

Carrying a small caliber makes it more likely that you won't incapacitate your target.

With this fucking logic, why don't you use a .22LR pistol?

>>33392472
I'm pretty sure .38ACP is in that group too, 9mm is the mildest acceptable standard pistol caliber.

>>33384664

What is it about .357 magnum that makes it so absurdly lethal? Every comparison of pistol rounds I've seen has it leading in one shot stops/incapacitation/fatality.

I mean look at that chart, you've got maybe an 8% chance of not getting knocked dead ass flat by a .357 magnum. Is it a combination of a hot round and top of the line defensive ammo like Gold Dot?

>>33393766
Even the cheapshit wallyworld/Academy bulk blasting ammo is oftentimes JSP which is a lot better than FMJ in the other shootings done by people that don't buy defensive ammo

Most people with .357 practice a lot to learn recoil control compared to people that carry weaker calibers

>>33392818
>The more energy you deliver to an attacker the better
>telling me my gun knowledge is shit when you don't even understand basic ballistics
>why not use a .22 pistol?
Because .22 can't penetrate far enough to stop someone reliably. .32 can.

>>33393766
It's a combination of mass use, bullet mass, and cartridge power. It's a light hunting/heavy anti-personnel round that's been widely used in both capacities for a while, it's a middle-aged round compared to the others on the list. I'd argue this tier of boolit, light-hunting/heavy anti-personnel, is when we start to see stoppan power and one-shot stops in contexts that don't involve deer cum and orange vests. Purely anti-personnel rounds are built with priorities other than a quick kill in mind so are ideally compromised. I'd say this tier consists of .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and 10mm Auto. I'd argue the reason .44 Magnum doesn't score as well is because it's a younger cartridge that wasn't as widely adopted so it hasn't had enough uses to get a true average.

I'm saying people need to make more 10mm guns.

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>>33374407
>>33374432
>>33374519
The Arex rex zero one has a variant in .32 acp (named 7,65 browning in France), made specifically for local French police, with a 15 rounds magazine somehow, although a 20 rounders apparently exists as well. Don't know if it was actually selected by any town for their forces though.

>>33393766
>What is it about .357 magnum that makes it so absurdly lethal?

It's a hot round that has a lot of potential in terms of how it can be loaded, and most factory loadings are markedly more powerful than any of the common service calibers in handguns today. Furthermore, as a result of its widespread adoption and use by the police up into the 80s, it ended up getting perfectly optimized for use against human beings via the High Velocity 125 grain SJHP. One of the reasons that both 10mm and .357 Sig exist was to try and replicate the performance of this particular load in an autoloader.

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>>33394698

Damn i bet that thing is a sweet shooter.

>>33394698
God I wish those were ever going to be imported into the US.

>>33372276
Why didn't he shoot the black guy more than once? The point of small, easy to control calibers is to place multiple shoots into the target quickly.

>>33394717
>>33394780
Have a vid and a link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRKey0Lr2D0

http://www.equipol.fr/pistolet-rex-7-65-da-sa-15-coups-mallette-2-chargeurs.html

>>33375064
shoot placement. 22's can do it.

>>33394831
shot

>>33394804

I want this for reasons. Need a threaded barrel for suppressor use though.

>>33374556
>Wow if only you were there to tell all those professional ballistics scientists when they concluded that over 18" of penetration was overkill and put bystanders at risk.
Who cares about the very small risk of even hitting bystanders if YOUR life isn't protected? This is stupid logic, and also not the whole story of why overpenetration is avoided: the idea is to get the bullet to dump all its energy inside the attackers body and cause the maximum amount of damage - inside the body instead of behind it.

>>33394804
The recoil is like an airsoft gun, it's beautiful

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Does anybody have any thoughts on the Seecamp vs. the NAA Guardian in .32? Everything I've heard about the Seecamp screams at me to avoid the fucker, but they don't appear to be the same size.

Pic related is the Seecamp compared to the NAA Guardian in .380, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison, but it seems like the Seecamp is generally smaller even in the same caliber.

>>33365953
.32 ACP is too small for me.

9x18 is the smallest I'll go for pistol calibers.

>>33382603
I want a COP so bad. Thanks for reminding me. It would be great if someone could revive the concept with .327 Fed Mag.

>>33365953
own .32 acp deutche werke pistol. its fun i would trust .32 to my life. i wouldnt trust the safety on the gun though. so i dont typically carry it and if i do a round never gets chambered unless i wanna shoot.

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>>33382315
>M1900, 6.4" OAL

>>33380119
I got mine back in 2004 and haven't had a single problem with it. It's light, fast to bring out, aims easily with not so much mass to move around. Its great for those who have less than powerful wrists.
It does bark loud for a short barrel.
Be careful of using solvent near the grips, it can be melted.
The only downside I have noticed is that you have to take the grips off and clean the mag well, trigger group. It likes to get dirty after 50 rounds too much for my taste.
Upside is that it fits in most coat and pants pockets without snagging when pulling it out.
For cheap, it changes the hearts and minds of would be no gooders just as well as bigger guns.

>>33394784
Exactly, don't stop popping until they drop.
10 round Tomcat 3032 clipaziner here.