Why do submachine guns tend to be the most aesthetically pleasing

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>>33363064

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so sexy

>>33363077
I'm not sure why I love the look of the MPL, but it's probably my second favorite looking sub gun next to the PP-19.

>>33363558
for sale fucking when. I wouldn't even have to buy new mags I could just use the umps

>>33363592

I'm sure they're not in a huge rush since they know there's a limited demand for these, being both expensive and a niche NFA item.

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>want an SMG
>could get a semi auto but despise the idea of a cucked gun
>could get a preban registered machinegun but refuse to on principal
HATE LIBERALS
>captcha prolong salt

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>Why do submachine guns tend to be the most aesthetically pleasing firearms?

because..

>>33363064
God I love sub guns

Because they're easy to make so every country in existence has made one. Even gangsters make them. So there is massive variation in design, as opposed to centerfire rifles (AR or AK) or pistols (1911 or Glock). Although one could argue that SMG design boils down to either Tec-9 or Uzi stylings.

>>33364362

>Tec-9 or Uzi

*Tec-9, Uzi or Mp7

why do people put red tape on their mp-5 mags?

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>>33364311
This might be even better.

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So long as a shooter doesn't hang a bunch of useless shit off it and look like a complete range knob, most squirt guns are pretty badassed looking...

Always had a soft spot for cool shit.

I think the VZ61 Skorpion qualifies as "cool shit"...

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>>33364423
a s t h e t i c s

Is it just me or is the MP5 nostalgic as fuck?

>>33364525
>Is it just me or is the MP5 nostalgic as fuck?
It is what the most elite of tier 1 operators used to always be portrayed using in various media and is pretty much old school tactical.

>>33364525

It's been around for a long time... every one I ever fired ran like a sewing machine. Standard MP5, the K... didn't matter. Love that fucking squirt gun...

The Uzi however.... man, what a shit bucket. Nothing but fucking jams. Maybe it was that particular Uzi, but still... did not exactly inspire confidence. Stamped sheet metal trash.

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I don't know why, but I've always had a thing for the Beretta M12. And Goldeneye also gave me a hardon for the Spectre M4. Something about Italian SMGs man.

Runners up are the Sterling and of course MP5, specifically the MP5K.

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>>33364525
>>33364557
The MP5 was THE close-quarters weapon before super-short ARs took over. From the SAS takedown of the Iranian embassy to FBI HRT teams using MP5/10s to fucking Rainbow Six, from about 1980 to 2005, that thing was everywhere. Shame the subgun has totally vanished recently, they've got some very good attributes over 5.56mm carbines.

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>>33364557
I know. It always reminds me of the old SAS and Delta.

Every time I see it, I think of pics like this.

>>33364588
Wasn't there some MP5 that NASA used to train their security teams that fired over a million rounds and still held zero?

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>>33364648

Anon, I know this is uber-olde-skool, but man I have always had a boner for the MP34...

The attention to detail.. the fit, the finish... the fucking style.. the quality of materials...

I will own one, some day... some how...

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>>33364680
According to the FBI guy I was chatting with they still have the MP5/10s and they really like them but HK is refusing to send new parts.

>My MP5

>>33363120
I had the chance to buy an M110 for around 300 bucks at a gun show not too long ago. It was tempting, but I really would rather have a Calico in 9mm and I'd rather a carbine even more.

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>>33364680
Aye.

I heard about one Delta Force exercise straight out of Rainbow Six, where they'd put a dude in the middle of this room, and randomly place targets around him, then have his team members clear the room in the dark with MP5s.

It was the first gun I built in Lego, too. Looked pretty damn good, and even could allow for the iconic slap.

>>33364692

>million round MP5?

True. I was down at Sterling about 15 or 16 years back and two HK guys had just got back from Aberdeen Proving Grounds... destruction testing MP5's...

Over a million round count. Barrels were damn near smoothbore, but they fired as advertised...

Bad. Ass.

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>>33363064

I like the ugly ones.

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Looking to buy pic related
Should I go with this or the full size. Also is Zenith trash?
Definitely looking to supress and SBR at some point

>>33364742
Zenith isnt trash its just turkish made and that upsets me.

Also i'm not 100% but I think that exact model has a stock blocker plated on the back of the receiver based on that photo.

>>33364696
>attention to detail

The magazine isn't even on the gun right.

>>33364692

Correction: It wasn't Aberdeen... it was White Sands... not that it makes a difference on your end, but I don't like mistakes - even when I'm the only one who knows it...

>>33364742
I've fired a Zenith and it felt like sex, finish wasn't too bad either. Most people's only real hang up is that "it's Turkish". I'm really curious about the Omega guns that Atlantic sells. The videos make them look really good, but I hear whispers that the guy who runs Omega is like, literally worse than Hitler and has screwed a lot of people over in the past. Also, I'm holding out for PTRs MP5 clone which with any luck should be out in a year or two.

>>33364756

And what would "right" be to your mind?

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>>33364692
I associate Delta (and American special forces in general) from the 1960-2000 time period more with early AR carbines. Particularly XM177s and Colt 723s.

>>33364737
Fun fact, rumor has it those were in service with tank crews up until after Desert Storm.

>>33364755
Same here- alternatives being Pakistani or some marked up equivalent of a home build :\

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>>33364777
Omega is a death trap.

PTR is really comfy and I would have no problem buying an mp5 or two from them
>>33364787
Pakistan hates india, therefor they are your ally
>>33364784
>Fun fact, rumor has it those were in service with tank crews up until after Desert Storm.
Yep, friends dad was a tanker and got issued one

>>33364692
Does anyone know what model maglite and which claw mount is being used here? I sort of want to replicate this on my MP5.

>>33364815
Not exactly a maglight. Its an aiming projector. Basically a flashlight with crosshairs that it projects out onto what ever you are pointing at.

Not the exact model but look at:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1365020.htm

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>>33364737
>>33364784

In US military service from 1943 to 1992.

The Philippines still use them, pic related was taken in 2009.

>>33364730
Hell yes.

H&K did a good deed there.

>>33364680
I am 18 and somehow managed to grow up without internet for the first 10 years or so of my life. My connection to the real world was Cold War era military novels, dictionaries of Cold War infantry tactics, and the like. It was about 2009-2010 before I found out that everything I knew about the military was old.

Basically, subguns were my childhood.

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>>33364756

Mag is on the left because most shooters are right handed - off hand changes the mag.

Mag horizontal enables easier firing out of the prone. Ever had a range knob banana mag dig into the dirt and see-saw your rifle in the prone?

Hole on top of magwell is a built-in loader (see attached). That's some anal retentive attention to detail shit right there...

MP34 known as "The Rolls Royce of Sub Machineguns".... even takes a bayonet.

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>>33364781
>>33364843

>>33364777
>PTR MP5
WHAT?!?

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>>33364859

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>>33364876
https://modernrifleman.net/2016/05/31/ptr-working-on-mp5-clone/

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>>33364680
>they've got some very good attributes over 5.56mm carbines.
Like what? Only advantage I can really think of is less muzzle blast. The length of barrel where rifle rounds lose their rifle like wound characteristics have been constantly decreasing with the 77 grain bullets from the 2000s like the MK262 Mod 1 that still fragmented while maintaining adequate penetration from a 10" barrel, and now the M855A1 that still fragments and maintains adequate penetration even when fired from a 7.5" barrel (they may actually still function from shorter barrels but I haven't seen that tested yet). Roles where people won't opt for the slightly longer gun for better wound ballistics are becoming less and less common now.

>>33364737
The M3 Grease Gun doesn't look too bad, and the rate of fire makes it seem really fun to shoot.

>>33364742
>and SBR
What kind of stock do you want? The MP5k receiver is different from the regular MP5 receiver, so if you want the classic fixed or telescoping stock you're going to want to go with the full size MP5 or look for a reverse stretch MP5k clone like pic related (more of an MP5 with an MP5k front end).

>>33364777
I had a fairly long conversation with a guy at Atlantic about this. Apparently his *brother* (founder of Specail Weapons and others) is notorious in the roller lock world. The Atlantic guy claimed (and I think is likely right) that this dude is actually okay. I haven't heard anything bad about any of the Omegas.

I ended up just saying fuck it and buying the SP5K though.

>>33364876
Yea, they have been working on it for a while, along with a copy of the HK93. It all got canned back in like 2012 or whenever the company almost went under. But now that they are doing really well, word is that they have started work on the MP5 project again. I heard all this middle of last year, and word was that they would have something on the market "in a year or two" if everything kept up how it was.

>>33364777
I've got an Omega OM-9 and everything is put together very well. No real complaints, but I wish they had gone with the older MP5 SEF style lower rather than the HK94 SEF lower purely for aesthetics.

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I have an scoprion evo, a vector .45, and a m92 for a krink build too but still waiting on stamps to come back

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>>33364830
Are you sure? These look much more like flashlights to me, and I've seen several people refer to them as flashlights.

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>>33364895
Less muzzle blast, suppress better, less weird reliability issues and premature wear (super-short ARs are notorious for eating bolts), and anecdotally less friendly fire hazard due to the reduced penetration. As in, 9mm won't penetrate a soft vest, while 5.56mm will.

>>33363915
The HPA is set to normalize repealing the silly parts of the NFA (read: all of it) this year. We could probably tack SBRs and SBSes onto it via reconciliation since that would be budget-neutral.

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>>33364895

The M3 is charmingly ugly, its got that rugged utilitarian aesthetic like an AK. That's why I like it. You could never call it a beautiful or stylish gun; but its got charm.

>>33364945
>As in, 9mm won't penetrate a soft vest, while 5.56mm will.
That might have been an advantage in the 00s, but with sub $200 ceramic rifle plates available today and many teams not using additional kevlar protection (or in some cases opting for more rifle plates in those locations due to the slowly decreasing weight of rifle plates) that stops being as much of an advantage. Also, additional wear isn't much of an issue for operators since they actually have maintenance schedules for their guns.

>>33364989
That's if the HPA gets passed. There hasn't been any action on it for a month and this one has got as far as the previous one in about the same amount of time.

PP-19 Bizon.

>>33364311
Not even a submachine gun.

>>33364311
Not an SMG

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>>33364708
>HK is refusing to send new parts.
..why?

>>33365176
They want to sell UMPs, which will need more replacement parts, meaning more profit

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>>33365176
I wasnt trying to interrogate the man, he was letting me shoot guns. But if I had to guess I would say >>33365213

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>>33365176
They probably don't even have the parts to send at this point. The MP5/10s were a pretty small production run, IIRC the only buyer was the FBI for a couple years.

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>>33365227
>>33365242
>>33365213
>They want to sell UMPs, which will need more replacement parts, meaning more profit.
fucking je.. err i mean, fucking krauts

ah, and thanks for the replies

>>33364945
Better to bring for navy crews over penetration on the ships outside walls

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>>33365379
I have one of those too! please ignore the shitty meme gun in the background

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>>33365431
>implying i'm a gun owner
>not knowing i'm a nofuns guy living in a nofuns country and just like to save imgs of nice guns
Feels bad man..

>>33365453
>nice guns
>turk guns
plz

>>33365453
do the bullets spell HFO?

>>33363885
>NFA
delet this

>>33363162

need to know more

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>>33365577
Tokarev Model 1927, looks like. Very odd little gun developed in the Soviet Union between wars, completely unsatisfactory in 7.62x38R Nagant, in 7.62x25 Tokarev it went up against a Degtyaryov that was adopted as the PPD-34.

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>>33365577
I have a picture of it disassembled and a cutaway schematic.

>>33365471
i just got the img off of /k/, are they turkish guns? i thought they were form hk mostly

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>>33365651

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I love subgun threads.

Uzi should be built in a few weeks
>SBR never

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>>33365717
Bowtie detected

ural when?

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>>33365656
They are turkish made HK33 rifles captured by kurds i assume. Dead giveways of turkism is simple:
1. HK33 users are basically turks these days
2. Green LPK
3. Turk made mag (I have some)

Overall I rank it roach/10

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>>33365749
Ural always.

Also, I sold my M92 today. Would have been a great SBR but I don't want to do any more SBR stamps
>but I'm definitely going to for the Uzi

>>33365518
HPB?

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Something about tubeguns, man...

>>33365921
Was that a sten kit somebody went apeshit on? Looks like a custom stock and a G3 grip.

>>33365928
I regret so much not picking one of those up when centerfire had them for $399, and drums were $20 apiece

>>33365945
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/08/09/innovative-arms-9mm-submachine-gun/

>>33364423

Die hard 2 taught me the blue tape means blanks and red means live ammo.

>>33364423
ive heard its for owners to identify their own mags at the range or meet ups and stuff. Ive never done it but ive also never lost a magazine

>>33364423
>>33366027
>>33366038
The tape might be so the owner can number the magazines, with the numbers written on the other side or the back.

>>33363151
>tfw you'll never own a full auto .45 MAC-10 with a tight ass suppressor

>>33363064
Just call them what they are, unnecessarily large pistols. Might as well call them two-handguns.

>>33366093
Except they have a stock, which makes a world of difference for shootability.

>>33364525

I actually don't really feel like I need a legit 9mm carbine but I love the mp5...

Should I just cave and buy the MP5 22LR by HK?

>>33365518
>>33365866
Possibly HPG

>People's Defence Forces(Kurdish:Hêzên Parastina Gel(HPG); is the military wing of thePKK.

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>>33363134

>>33364729
That's standard exercise in operators training course for Delta. Other than slow walking through it in the beginning, Delta always uses live ammo in their training.

>>33367552
kek'd

>>33365717

something is off about your uzi anon, but i can't tell why...

>>33365802
When are you going to ride it down to mount M53s on it?

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>>33365717
I really like your AR in the middle

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Got a mod for this in Fallout 4 and it was sex.

>>33372084
good to see anyone making weapon mods anywhere near the level of NV mods

pic looks like millenia, havent checked the nexus anytime recently but it looked really dead

i'm that guy who mods fallout games into stalker games so more guns and more enemies while removing as much vanilla (((((content))))) as possible is all i need from it

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This just came out today, and various mods are getting updated all the time. Not dead yet.

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>>33363077
It's so ugly that it just seems sexy

>>33372173
>>33372107

>>33369211
ugh, those were some of the shittiest suppressors ever made.
>long
>heavy
>loud
>worked loose every mag
>only good for a couple thousand rounds before they broke, assuming you didn't get a baffle strike first because it works loose every mag

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Pinnacle of SMG design.

The capabilities of this weapon are just ridiculous.

>>33372173
nice.

Still gonna be a while before I work up the nerve to reinstall the game and spend a day getting 50 settlement mods to not shit themselves after an hour of gameplay

>>33372225
>Pinnacle of SMG design.
Not really. The gun itself doesn't really have any impressive features when compared to other existing subguns. The only impressive part is the ammo it uses (which was marketed as being able to be used in other 9mm subguns by just rebarreling them), and the ammo is more impressive in a theoretical sense rather than a practical sense as while it can penetrate NIJ III/SAPI plates, pretty much no one uses that level of protection today outside of poorfags (and even they're changing over to NIJ IV plates considering the availability of rifle ammunition that can penetrate cheap AR500 NIJ III plates and the decreasing prices of NIJ IV plates).

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>no one posted the sexiest SMG/PDW

>>33372438
No

>>33372494
>Not wanting Czech space SMG
Bad ergos and low rpm for you

>>33372513
the new evos really seem to rustle some smg jimmies.

>>33372524
Yeah
>MP5 fags that defend their outdated gun that's double the price of an Evo 3

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>>33364311
Is that a fucking mp5 chambered in .308?

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>>33363064

>>33365379
>>33365431
I've always had the weirdest boner for the TMP, is it worth it?

>>33372571
probably just an sbr'd ptr91, but basically the same thing, yeah

>>33372438
People like the Evo for the same reason they like Hi Point guns, they're cheap.

>>33364835
looks like chad has another date tonight after maneuvers

>>33372513
>>33372524
>>33372558
I was implying it wasn't attractive, like a small fish gun, however it's compact, shoots bullets and the price is just right.

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>>33372663
Trigger pull is heavy but its accurate as heck and very controllable. Internally it looks like a swiss watch. You can bumpfire them like a motherfucker. Mags cost a lot

If I didnt get a good deal on it I would be hardpressed to buy
>>33372571
Pic related
>Ideal for equalizing the odds in one man undercover operations

>>33372704
It's made by CZ, it's well made, don't gimme that Hi-point meme shit

H&K are the worst

>>33372726
Thanks for the info. I've almost bought one several times but I didn't know anyone that had one to ask about. I might have to pass on it for a while.

>>33372756
It's made by CZ, but what does that matter? Are you saying a company can't put out a lemon? I'm not saying the Evo is a lemon, it might be reliable. But it's popularity isn't due to much aside it's price. The trigger is awful, charging it is awful, needs a magazine to close the bolt, the safety selector is in a bad place, and the magazine release a silly.

>>33372756
They have a well-documented habit of shitting the bed at absurdly low round counts with catastrophic failures. I'm talking total frame failure in under 5k rounds, with some regularity, with standard pressure 115gr FMJ's.

>>33372791
Huh, I wasn't aware of that

They look neat though

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>>33364737
me too anon
simplicity makes my dick dimonds

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cause some girls like the thin ones

>>33372834
That they do. CZ is working on fixing it and is doubling down on their warranty though, basically if it breaks they're fixing it expedited no-questions-asked.

It has potential, and I really really want to like it, but even on a range queen/fuckaround gun I really don't want a KB due to a manufacturer's defect.

>>33363064
Pistol caliber allows them to be slim and sleek, with a longish profile and barrel.

Actions tend to be fairly simple. The weight of the gun means blowback usually does just fine,

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>>33364439
i don't get it with you fucks, the bullet IS NOT DESIGNED FOR A CHODE OF A BARREL!!!!!!!!

you unbelievably dense motherfuckers

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>>33372791
Sauce? I've seen pic related before so I had some suspicions but never bothered looking into it more. Note for pic related, the bottom pictures related to the stock are supposedly from airshit and not the real thing, the picture on the right does appear to be from the real thing though as they don't make airshit clones without full auto.

>>33372873
That's an HK51B, HK actually sold those in that configuration.

>>33372357
Goddamn you uglied that thing up good.

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In. I really should SBR this.

>>33372906
CZ forums, arfcom, and castboolits.

>>33372107
The problem, as I see it, with Fallout 4 is that it just fell so far below expectations that it developed an toxic presence. It's not something like Skyrim that wasn't exactly complicated, but the groundwork was acceptable enough to most folks to invest the time and energy modding. Fallout 4, I wanted to like it so much, just doesn't even deserve attention at this point.

>>33373110
There's a reason that I've not gone six months without reinstalling or replaying New Vegas since it came out, but I wasn't even able to bring myself to fininsh Fallout 4. It's a game that's bad to the core in ways that even F3 escaped.

>>33364944
its a flashlight with a cardboard cutout of crosshairs on the front, take off the lens and you have a flashlight

>>33372906
I would concur that the top right is real, I haven't seen an airshit one that had the sliding pistol grip yet.

Gouging the mags doesn't really concern me, they're ~$15 for 30-rounders and it takes thousands of rounds before reliability comes into question.

There are a couple of features of the CZ that piss me off though.
>despite promising "standard" muzzle threading (supposedly 1/2x28) on new models starting in August 2015, every Scorpion shipped to date has come with CZ's fully-proprietary 18x1LH threads
Yeah there are adaptors available now but we're over a year and a half after the supposed launch date with no delivery.
>despite promising factory stocks being available on the aftermarket for those wishing to SBR starting 1 January 2016, they have yet to materialize. Same deal for the 922r compliance kits.
>ships from the factory with an ambi safety that has a fuckhueg right-side lever and they have the balls to charge $90 for a right-side-delete kit. Most people just dremel it shorter or scallop it.
>recoil impulse/muzzle climb is absurd as it's a sub-4.5lb blowback "SMG" with a 1.5lb bolt, ESPECIALLY with +P ammo. While I will probably never touch a select-fire version I would expect it to be fairly uncontrollable.
>it absolutely does not tolerate +P+ or 9mm Major or Uzi's superheavy 158gr or +P 147gr, recoil spring is insufficient and the bolt slams into the back of the receiver hard enough to bounce and cause malfunctions (this is easily fixed with a heavier spring, although reliability with super-weak 115gr loads like WWB and Wolf/Tula will suffer)
>trigger is amazingly heavy OOTB (ranges from 10-14lbs) and fairly long but crisp, and breaks in to be fairly nice (~7lbs but still long after ~500rds with reports of them getting as light as 5.5lbs after 2000+ rds). This is indicative of poor machining and accelerated parts wear.
>*zero* functional aftermarket. You can get...uh. Different-but-identical side rails.

>>33363093
>EVEN COMRADES OF SMALL STATURE CAN NOW AID IN CLASS REVOLUTION

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>>33364557
it's funny, cause i saw a accuracy test of the mp vs and uzi, and the uzi won.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxmyI-7wLEc

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>>33370084
I think its broken, I can't get the damn thing to shoot

>>33371504
>m53s
>plural
You know, there exists a mount that sits on the trunk lid between the spokes of the rear tire. I really could mount two guns on it.
I'm either going to have to find a place that rents small 6x8 flat utility trailers (uhaul wont work) or convert my truck into a flatbed.

>>33371551
Thanks m8. My can should be approved any day now, and then my Fastfire III will be in 4-6 weeks, then it will be done.

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>>33372179
>when a post describing a gun describes you perfectly

>>33373230
>oh look the heavier gun with the slower ROF is more controllable
STOP THE PRESSES
>"accuracy test" offhand
yeah nah. Flawed test exhibiting shooter ability and not mechanical accuracy.

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tiem 4 some more mp5 nostalgy

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>>33373300

>>33365242
>YOU SEE IVAN
>TRIGGER NO NEED GUARD
>H A N D L E NEED GUARD
>HARD TO SHOOT TRIGGER IF YOU CAN NO HOLD HANDLE, NO?

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>>33373315

sort of

>>33373244
>fastfire 3
Any particular reason you want this instead of any number of other microdots? You're clearly not poor, why not an RMR, J-Point, Deltapoint, or Vortex Razor?

I also think it would look fucking awesome with a C-More, but that's not exactly a microdot.

>>33373110
Yeah, I was hyped for FO4 when it was announced thinking it would be like NV but better, but after hearing about everything wrong with it I don't think modders could fix it without redesigning the game since most everything has major flaws (from the guns, to the quests, to stripping out features that Obsidian added in NV, to Bethedsa turning buildings into linear looping dungeons). How did that using your smartphone as a pipboy feature turn out? I don't think I ever heard anything about it after release.

>>33369211
>ywn live in a MAC10 magazine log cabin
what is even the fucking point

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>>33373336

the latest muslimterror in europe brings the unholy police subgun world to the light

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>>33373357

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>>33373368

>>33373347
The game was too ambitious, and it suffered from serious resource allocation problems. The idea of modifying/building/scrapping guns and armor is awesome. Love it, it's thematically perfect to the Fallout setting as, absent the Gunrunners, I don't know of any other major arms manufactures. The problem is how it was executed. Sure, I could invest in being able to modify my guns, but I could also just get a random drop of X instead of spending points to build X. Balance is also retarded as energy weapons are useless. The diversity of weapons is bad, too. Next Fallout we're going to have 6 weapons: bullet pistol, bullet rifle, energy pistol, energy rifle, fat-man, BIG DAMAGE WEAPON. Each upgrade will be 100% better than the other, so no point is trying to carve out a use for an older weapon.

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>>33372906
just because they sell it, does not mean it's a good idea.

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>>33373383

>>33373337
Fastfire is well known and has overwhelmingly favorable reviews, plus a lot of different mount options. I had a primary arms micro dot on it before and I really enjoyed how tough and accurate it was; I wasn't a fan of the aesthetic though.

What tipped me over the edge to the Burris is their deal going on right now. Buy a 3 or 5x prism scope and get a free Fastfire III. ~$450 worth of optics for $230 can't be beat.

>>33373368
>investing all your stars into handguns
>running a full team of pointmen and 1 assaulter
someone knows how to play doorkickers

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>>33373397

>>33373401
Fair enough. It's not a bad optic by any means, but it's also certainly not in the running for the best. That's a good value, too bad I have literally no use for a prism scope.

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Just saw this gigantic fucker at a gun show in Harrisburg yesterday, sorry for shit image quality

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>>33373416

a classic: early bundeswehr kampfschwimmer (combat diver) with woodland/erdl and UZIs

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>>33373445
last one 4 today. more tommorow if the thread is still alive.

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>>33373445
HA

even the krauts hate hk

>>33373389
Energy weapons have always been inferior to projectile weapons in Fallout games. Which is sad, they're neat.

It's not that the game was too ambitious, keep in mind it was in development for nearly 8 years. It's that Bethesda is a total hack of a studio and literally everything in the game is broken or was at launch, with much of it remaining un-patched.
>better save every couple minutes so when I fall through the world constantly I don't lose a ton of progress
>oh look, I'm an hour in and all my saves are corrupted
They have no talent, no vision, and seem to be going out of their way to kill the franchise. Every aspect of FO4 was available to some extent in FONV or as a third-party mod for FO3 or FONV. Batteries for your power armor? Existed in 2008 as a mod. Scrapping guns/ammo? Core part of FO3 and FONV via "repair" function and salvage perks.

It has rampant and blatant problems with every aspect of the game from the engine (resource management/save corruption/physics/cell loading tables) to the gameplay (clunky controls across all 3 platforms, unusable 3rd person view) to the graphics and lighting (literally 2006-tier graphics and babby's-first-Lightroom-attempt lighting with excessive HDR bloom) to the progression (one weapon is a direct upgrade to all other weapons, static repeatable drops, easy guaranteed cash farms, grinding for levels, funky disjointed forced narrative, no freedom of progression) to the support (5 months to first bug patch despite many issues known to devs before launch, will never ever be totally fixed because studio is focusing on shitting out paid DLC just like every other bethesda title in the history of ever).

>>33364895
>Like what?

won't kill hostages with fragmentation and ricochets if you're storming the lindt cafe in sydney

>>33365717
HOLY SHIT that AR is aesthetic. Love it when the magwell fits like that

a damn shame it doesn't have one of those newfangled PDW stocks, otherwise it'd be 11/10 (it's 10/10 as it stands)

>>33364729
Those sliding stocks look so wobbly with the way they're bending

>>33373605
I don't think any of those stocks will function with a straight blowback upper. Straight blowback uppers generally need a heavier buffer than normal and those PDW stocks have the buffer integrated into the bolt.

>>33365717
>tfw skorpion parts kids never

>>33373777
They are super wobbly, yes.

They're actually the primary reason the SAS teaches to brace forward against sling tension instead of actually using the stock.

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>>33373830
That's really damned unfortunate to hear, because they look neat as fuck. Plus the cheaper repros are not wobbly in the least.

>>33373850
The cheaper repros are bulkier and aren't just round wire. They lock up better and are a lot stiffer.

HK has made some very...questionable...design decisions over the last 30-35 years.

>>33363162
>>33365636
>>33365651
>>33365658
I desire this greatly

>>33373244
how exactly did you build it? I'd like to do something similar

>>33374585
The AR-15? Not him but it looks like it's just:
>9mm AR lower (various companies make them for both modified Uzi mags and Glock mags)
>normal lower parts, possibly a heavier buffer
>slick side upper reciever
>9mm AR bolt/carrier assembly (it's all one piece)
>9mm barrel
>short hand guard
It's really nothing special.

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>tfw sold this gun yesterday
>would have been a dank subgun as an SBR

>>33373429
I have no use for it either; I stuck it on my A2 to try it out but if I don't like it I'll just sell it for like $180 and wind up with a $50 fastfire.

>>33373605
I didn't like the look of the PDW stock. I've considered rebuilding it using the Hera Arms CQB stock and forgrip and a 10" barrel so that the end of the barrel is flush with the end of the grip.

>>33373821
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631009487
A friend built his off of this kit. Worked really nice. Upper has an odd glossy blue/grey finish to it.

>>33374072
Want, too bad its so expensive. The PAK-9 is a cheap 9mm AK pistol but it's really ugly, has too short a barrel, takes a proprietary handguard, and only takes M9 or glawk mags.

>>33374585
9mm ARs build just like a regular AR except they don't have a gas tube. If you use the LWRC UCIW stock like I did, you're going to have to buy a proprietary 9mm heavy buffer and spring that costs more than the stock, otherwise your gun will FTE every 5-10 rounds.

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>>33365379
>Not using the superior (T)MP9

>>33363077
That gun was great in Blops.

>>33363110
That gun was great in BF4

>>33364680
basically this. everyone from the SAS to SWAT teams to SEALs to Delta used it. It was THE oper8or gun before the modern shit of short-barreled ARs with shittons of scopes and foregrips and lasers and shit.

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CMP-150 is pretty good.

Why did my brother pronounce it as a slurred word?

>>33363558
All they need to do is make a pistol version. HK would have SO much more money if they'd just make their shit affordable. 5 $1200 ARs sold makes your company more money than 2 $2100 ARs

>>33367613
Seems questionable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI01qKAqYts

>>33375658
That's not an HK gun

>>33376031
It's a UMP45 clone, it's the same fucking thing with 2 or 3 tiny tweaks to make it non-proprietary. My point stands - if HK bothered to make its shit available and competitive they'd be a cash cow

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>>33372330
> The only impressive part is the ammo it uses

The ammo is the definitely the most impressive part. Makes me wonder why nobody ever developed it in the last 20 years - would make fielding the PDWs that gun companies keep trying to push much more palatable from a logistical standpoint.

But the CBJ-MS did come with an impressively small 100 rnd drum, so small that I'm not convinced the listed number isn't just plain wrong. Even a 50rnd drum that size is still pretty impressive.

> while it can penetrate NIJ III/SAPI plates pretty much no one uses that level of protection today

Got a source on the penetration though? Only seen the tests against steel, and CRISAT targets. Never saw it against NIJ standards.

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>>33373202
what.

>magazines
Newer magazines have a revised feed lip design that greatly reduces failure rates. I've seen maybe 2 failures with the new magazine design, both on 20 round mags that have the overpowered 30 round mag springs in them anyway. Aftermarket mags with steel feed lips are also now available.
>proprietary threading
New Evo pistols ship with both 18x1 and 1/2x28 threads. Evo carbines ship with 1/2x28.
>stocks have yet to materialize
In stock on CZ's website in both black and FDE. 922r compliance kits were discontinued so you can buy just the parts you need. Alternatively, buy a carbine model.
>$90 right side delete kit
Try $13 from either CZ or HBI.
>recoil is absurd
It's a fucking 9mm SMG, it's damn near impossible for recoil to even come close to being "absurd" with it. Heavier than others, maybe, but it's not uncontrollable or anything.
>doesn't tolerate +P+ or 9mm Major
Can't comment, admittedly don't have experience with either
>trigger is heavy
That it definitely is. Luckily HBI has a $9 trigger spring kit that knocks it down to the 5.5 lb range.
>zero aftermarket
There's stocks, stock adapters, selector switches, handguards, pistol grips, sling mounts, magazine releases, triggers (mostly shoes, though CZC has a complete trigger pack), charging handles, and now even Lancer-style magazines. It has plenty of aftermarket, but there's only so much that one can actually mod on the gun.

About the only real complaint I have with the gun is the trigger weight and the fact that CZ welded the trigger pack screw in for "world compliance" so they could make as many Evos as possible in case Shillary won. Said weld is easily removed or Shooter's Element will drill it out for you and install any lower parts you want for $30, which is what I did. Apparently some of the newer Evos don't even have the weld anymore.

Maybe I'm a shill because this thing is my favorite gun in my collection and I'm going to SBR it, but almost all your info is out of date.

>>33376412
It's an impressive round from a pure performance standpoint. However the subgun itself is woefully uninspired and from a logistical point of view the weapon system presents problems. Any proprietary ammunition will have a hard time breaking through into a new role (market) but particularly one that shows high performance rifle wear in a "pistol" caliber carbine will find resistance. Along with the factor that the only impressive ballistic feat is armor penetration at close range, it does not show huge promise as a wide spread PDW.

>>33373561
>Energy weapons have always been inferior to projectile weapons in Fallout games.
>Turbo Plasma Rifle
>Alien Blaster
>YK Pulse weapons

Um what? Only in the Bethesda era games are they inferior. The old ones balanced different play styles much better.

>>33377201
If only the Cold War was still around to drive development.

We're going to fight an actual modern army eventually and we're going to be stuck equipped for counter insurgency and gunboat diplomacy.

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Hotchkiss Universal folding SMG?

>>33372225
>>33376412
>2017
>using a gun that looks like a nail gun

>>33372225
>>33376412
Does 6.5x25 cbj have to be tungsten to be effective? Could you use steel sub-projectiles at the cost of some effectiveness or would that decrease make it pointless?

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>>33363064
>Why do submachine guns tend to be the most aesthetically pleasing firearms? Also, subgun thread.

They don't, especially if they are HK trash.

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>>33376412
>Makes me wonder why nobody ever developed it in the last 20 years

what's there to develop? I've made AP rds from threaded bar stock with a copper tube jacket swaged on it. it's not rocket surgery. pic related would probably be even better.

>>33377559
CBJ is a saboted sub-caliber munition, not just an bullet with a hard, dense core like most AP ammo.

>>33365176
Cost of production ,maybe.There is no profit in restarting a line for a small order of spare parts.

>>33363077
you could plop this fucker anywhere in the original starwars trilogy unmodified

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>>33372513
>Czech space SMG
You mean this one?

>>33364939
what's the model on the right?

>>33378060
Converted USC I'm sure.

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>>33372873
That's what they said about the Obrez.

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>>33375381
Nice choice.

I like MP7s

>>33364742
I heard the omega was easier to do sbr since the 922r compliance is already done. Been looking at the omega 9fs.

Anyone have an omega?

>>33372225
Not really no.

>>33378096
You sure that's not just a thrower of some kind?

>>33372846
>that hairline
It always creeps me out when people have that low of a hairline.

>>33378096
Uhhh, anon, that's not an Obez...

Is there a submachine gun that easily allows changing the barrel without danger to headspace ?
Something like the UMP for example, or the Scorpion EVO ?

honest curious question: why are they called submachine guns?

>>33380266
At the time of their invention, the only other automatic weapons were actual machineguns. Ans since they were a hell of a lot smaller but still automatic, the "sub" got stuck on, or something like that.

>>33377559
>I've made AP rds from threaded bar stock with a copper tube jacket swaged on
show it

>>33365176
My brother in law works for a sheriffs department in California and he basically said what another anon said, they want people to buy UMP's. He was actually the first person I knew to compare them to Apple.i guess back in the day when the dept first bought them they had lifetime warranties and such, this past year they wanted to replace some barrels and stocks but H&K basically said just buy UMP's. Same thing happened when I dropped my ipod touch in the toilet. Imagine this conversation but with H&K:
>yeah I'm here to replace my ipod touch, I have full warranty and coverage it had some water damage
>sorry anon can't do it
>can you repair It? I just use it for the gym and work
>nope sorry anon, why don't you just buy an IPhone
>I don't need an IPhone I already have a phone
>well you should just buy an IPhone
>can I at least get some credit or something?
>no just buy a new iPhone

>>33365802
How the hell do you keep it running? They're notoriously unreliable slavshit despite being aesthetic as hell slav BMWs

>>33380482
so in current times, wouldn't the term PDW be a better term than SMG?

>>33379608
I *think* the Evo can have a barrel swap done without headspace checking. The barrel is attached to a fixation that sits in the receiver. There's a company selling aftermarket Evo barrels with preinstalled fixations that they claim is a drop in fit without headspacing requirements, but I can't say with 100% certainty if that's true or not.

>>33380757
no

What's a good affordable, semi-auto PDW?

>>33380757
No, the SMG was supposed to increase the firepower of assault troops. Remember this was back when everyone used bolt actions and were storming trenches. The SMG was the only one man usable full auto weapon available until after WW2.

The PDW is a defensive concept, mean to arm crew and rear line troops. It's meant to be small and potable and not get in the way, not to be used to actually assault a position. Sure you could give a group of guys MP7s and tell them to go clear a house, but that's not what the weapon was originally designed for.

>>33381099
Also PDWs are designed to be better able to defeat body armor than an SMG, which is why they use a cartridge like the 5.7x28. Now there is some grey area where you have Russia's approach to a PDW which is to use a +P+ 9mm.

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>>33377195
Agreed, favorite gun in the collection, aside from the welded trigger screw and the heavy factory trigger, which I replaced, I haven't noticed any downsides. Now I'm just waiting for yeti wurks to restock their pistol grips

>>33383241
Which they just restocked, so get them while they're hot

>>33373064
I'm not seeing anything about cracked scorpion recievers on any of those after some quick searches.

>>33365945
I bought a Suomi for $750 2 years ago. No regrets

>>33377195
I have yet to see an Evo of either configuration with 1/2x28 threads, and I work for an FFL that sells about 50 of the things a month. Is it possible my distributor has a shitload of NOS? yeah I suppose, but unlikely.

That aftermarket must have sprung up relatively recently. I will admit I haven't actively looked for it in a while. And the right-side-delete OEM part used to be $90 when it was first introduced. The dremel solution is more functional and if you can be bothered to spend some time with a needle file and sandpaper looks better too.

Recoil is absurd for what it is, I wasn't meaning to claim it's a shoulder-crusher. Stouter in both felt recoil and muzzle climb than pretty much any other 9mm PCC or SMG on the market. This is in part due to its extreme low weight and in part due to the fact over a quarter of its total weight is a reciprocating chunk of steel. I stand by my claim that the select-fire variant must be nearly impossible to keep on target under full retard fire, especially with its advertised 1100rpm.

HBI isn't the first person to put out cheap spring kits that clean up the trigger. I am concerned about how much the factory trigger "breaks in" because that means it's already on its way to wearing out. Without having detail stripped the FCG I couldn't tell you if this is the fault of rough machining, poor machining, poor design, some combination thereof, or what. I've also heard reports that the HBI spring kit and those like it will cause light strikes with particularly hard primers (CCI milspec, Barnaul's primers, etc), although there's literally nothing keeping you from using only part of the kit.

Out of curiosity, did you have the trigger pack drilled out just in case or did you swap out parts? If so what did you use (besides springs)?

>>33377330
Alien blaster?
>FO3: Requires paid DLC
>FONV: Requires taking the silly-mode trait at the start of the game
>FO4: not even top-third DPS or top quarter damage of energy weapons, only available late game when you've had access to better for a while, requires maxed Science! skill to be used for more than 20 minutes due to finite source of ammo, and beam width makes shooting around cover frustrating
Turbo plasma rifle:
>only featured in the RTS titles
>merely mediocre in FO2
YK Pulse Rifle:
>only featured in FO2
>very short range
>mediocre accuracy
>prohibitively enough expensive it's an end-game weapon
>worthless against the second-most-common enemy type (floaters)
>low critical damage
>out-DPS'd by mid-game SMG's even at longer ranges

>>33379608
Sig MPX uses a quick-swap barrel that doesn't require headspace.

Scorpion Evo has what's basically a trunnion that rides in a slot in the receiver, you can get barrels with the trunnion pre-installed.

>>33381094
lelkek sub2000. Anything smaller is NFA, anything larger is too big to be considered a PDW, any of the conversion-to-pistol SMG's are expensive enough they can't be considered affordable and many of them can't be considered good.

>>33373389
>Energy pistol, Energy rifle
They already merged those

>>33384288
not that guy but my evo carbine has 1/2x28 threads with the trigger pack welded. ive also used the hbi spring kit for about 1k rounds (which isnt much at all, i admit) with a lot of different ammo and absolutely zero failures. i love my evo

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>>33372357
The MPX is sex. I sell my left nut to buy one.

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>>33363064

>>33363279
F U G G

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>>33385320

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>>33385328

>>33375536
i loved the way those things sounded

>>33385793
>Stocks and forward grips are unnobtainium
Incredibly disappointing, I saw one at a gunshow a couple months ago for like $1300. I'd have gotten it if the stocks were available.

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>>33384288
Both the carbine models have 1/2x28. Pull the muzzle brake off and you'll see 'em. The faux suppressor model like the one I have is threaded the same way; the faux suppressor attaches at the muzzle end so as to be removable and easily converted to the muzzle brake config. Pistol versions are different and have been shipping with two sets of thread protectors since some point in 2016; pic related is what you should see once everything is off. The thread protectors provided on these newer models let you cover either the 18x1 or 1/2x28 threads while you're using the other one.

I haven't heard of any issues with the HBI spring kit in that way, nor have I experienced any so far, but I run S&B, Blazer Brass, and Federal almost exclusively. I'd assume the issue is mostly due to the firing pin safety not getting depressed properly since the bolt is reliant on the trigger pack to engage it, but if you lubricate the firing pin safety so that it remains easily depressed per the maintenance manual, that seems to fix the issue.

As for my Scorpion, I had multiple parts installed at the time. Shooter's Element had a 10% off storewide coupon, so I bought their flat trigger shoe, their extended magazine release, and the HBI spring set and just had SE install all of them while the pack was being drilled since you have to remove the weld to install the new trigger parts anyway. Next parts are going to be a new grip (Pakse Development keeps pushing theirs back but it looks promising) and either a selector delete or a set of Apex Tactical Specialties selectors (full size on left, low profile on right so as not to interfere with the folding stock).

Also, the break-in issues from what I can tell are mostly related to rough machining. Lots of tool markings on the bolt in particular. Hammers tend to get beat up a lot on this gun too, but CZ says the hammer face wear pictures people send them is normal so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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>>33378096
Is that supposed to look like this? Or is it a real prop?

>>33372855
>gir

>>33377195
>>33383241

Did you guys just install a safety delete or do you just suffer with the factory safety?

>>33387449
I still have a factory safety. I plan to replace it eventually, but I haven't found one I really like yet. Might just throw a delete in my cart next time I buy a part to have on it until then.

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>>33385286

>>33387619
God, the MPX is really starting to grow on me. Are there any advantages to it compared to a 9mm AR other than no buffer tube?

>>33372873
Actually, IIRC barrel length is of negligible importance on roller-lock actions. Unlike with gas guns, which suffer reliablity issues at super-short lengths they weren't designed for (See HK 416-C project), roller-lockers depend on recoil. Roller-locked SBR's should be fine, even at short lengths. But I'm no engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

>>33384452
>FO3: Requires paid DLC
>FONV: Requires taking the silly-mode trait at the start of the game
>FO4: not even top-third DPS or top quarter damage of energy weapons, only available late game when you've had access to better for a while, requires maxed Science! skill to be used for more than 20 minutes due to finite source of ammo, and beam width makes shooting around cover frustrating
What part of:
>Only in the Bethesda era games are they inferior.
Didn't you understand. Alien Blaster is in BOTH the original FO games.

Also:
>only featured in the RTS titles
>RTS
Wut.

>Turbo plasma rifle:
>>merely mediocre in FO2
Out damaged the Gauss rifle, even when accounting for the GR's AP, easier to get and feed. Only down side was the smaller mag which usually didn't matter anyway. Easily a good alternative if you went Energy over Small Guns.

Was undeniable king of FO1.

>YK Pulse Rifle:
>very short range
True
>prohibitively enough expensive it's an end-game weapon
Available free in San Fran BOS bunker
>worthless against the second-most-common enemy type (floaters)
>Implying floaters are difficult or that you don't have 2 weapon slots

>low critical damage
Lolwut? It has one of the highest crit damages in the game.
>out-DPS'd by mid-game SMG's even at longer ranges
Yeah no. Any unarmored target is no longer relevant when you have one - accuracy and crit make them irrelevant, and against armored targets burst fires are mediocre and YK kicks ass.

>>33379093
Obrez just means any sawnoff gun, so yeah it is even if it isn't a MN

>>33385793
Pure sex. What is it?

>>33388097

S I T E S
P
E
C
T
R
E

>>33388068
>only featured in the RTS titles
>RTS
>Wut.

Fallout Tactics you babby.

>>33387111
Most of the weapons in Star Wars are converted from 30s-50s weapons, the ion blaster (Lee Enfield chopped and fitted with what I believe is a grenade launching device) included.

>>33387652
gas vs blowback

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>>33389522
This feels like a frankenstein gun, even though I don't recognize the parts.

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>>33373333

The magazine would be guarding the trigger if inserted.

>>33373110

I recently did an NV modded re-play with the completed NV Bounties series and logged in about 60 hours without completing all the DLC or main story. I just love that game.

I tried to follow it up with FO4 to play through the DLC that I had never done, and it was just not very entertaining. Which is a shame, because it's a good looking game and the gunplay feels good. I ratcheted up the enemies with the War of the Commonwealth mod, but it just never had the excitement of NV. And Nukaworld is straight garbage unless you are playing a Dick Dastardly evil character.

>>33373337

Not that anon but the fastfire is a good dot. I have RMRs and fastfires and I have yet to break a fastfire. I have broken two RMRs (although both were on pistol slides so they were very high intensity).

>>33364729


these are not real people.

these are 12 action figures, or something.

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>>33365227
I find that silhouette aesthetically pleasing.

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>>33367526
>underrated

>>33390374
source on this comic pls

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I'm more of a shotgun guy myself.

>>33364939
How do you like the evo? I'm looking for a 9mm "pistol" to SBR, and it's at a good price point and the aftermarket has opened up a little in regards to mags, handguards, and grips.
I've also handled a Sig MPX, but they can be twice as expensive in some places.

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>>33384704
>>33380774

Those are pretty nice, but I was also hoping there were some more options, possibly with a large aftermarket or extremely common magazines and such. I'll put 'em on the maybe list though.

If anyone knows any alternatives, please let me know.

Also does anyone know what the deal is with this protruding pin on the Bizon ? It looks like it's the pin that normall holds the barrel in place, why is is sticking out ?

>>33394643
Not him, but there is always the option of an AR-15 based gun. They even make lowers designed for Glock mags.

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>>33394699
Only now I realize I probably picked airshit off of google.

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>>33394733
Right. I'd also considered that, I even have an AR pistol I could cannibalize parts from to build it. I just would kind of like something other than an AR. I'm growing weary of them.

>>33376145
HK literally cannot do that because of German export laws and US import laws. Until the build a US factory and Ship all of their machines and staff to the US and find a way to circumvent German law it's not gonna happen. HK isn't retarded and they would absolutely love to throw more shit on the US market, but it's not financially viable.

Also you have no understanding of the gun of which you speak outside of its looks. The whole action is not some tiny tweak

>>33394860
>I just would kind of like something other than an AR. I'm growing weary of them.
Understandable. I figured that wouldn't be an issue since you listed the MPX, which looks pretty similar externally to short AR based 9mm SBRs that use a dedicated pistol lower.

>>33387652
It's a gas gun so it has a quite low recoil impulse compared to most blowback 9mm PCC/SMG's. It's also heavy AF for its size (6.1lbs for the pistol) which helps even more.

Folding stock, quick-change barrel (kinda-sorta interested in trying a .22TCM conversion for shits n' grins for a poorfag P90) are both things you can't get on a 9mm AR.

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>>33395276
Yeah. That's kind of deterred me from the mpx, but it is a generally high quality gun regardless. I shot one at a local range that belonged to a cop, and it was an absolute blast to shoot. It's what spurred me on to get a 9mm SBR/pistol. I would like something without an AR's charging handle, though. I've grown to just not like it at all.
My big 3 are the CZ, MPX, and the CX4. The vector is a runner up on my potential buys, but the cost deters me a bit.

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>>33395441
You could get one of those Uppers with a side charging handle.

>>33395699
If he doesn't want to pay for a vector, he sure as shit isn't going to want to get into side chargers

>>33390772
Clementine, for VICE. Think the artist died or something, she hasn't posted anything in almost a year

>>33395699
>300 AAC marked magazine catch
for what purpose

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>>33396148
Yeah. Kinda not into the side charger business. I frequent ARG, and the resident side charger guy is a shit head. It's soured them for me

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>>33380748
There are a multitude of reasons why they have a reputation for being unreliable and little of it is due to them being bad bikes. They're more diamonds in the rough that need polishing. From what I understand the newer ones are significantly better every year.

Mostly, it's people who purchase them and treat them like an average Jap bike. My kawasaki will pretty much run whether I change the oil or not. I press the start button and it goes.
Urals are more temperamental. Mine starts fine but requires more frequent routine maintenance. For example, I have 3 separate oils that require changing: Engine, gearbox, and final drive. Each uses a different oil and must be changed at or around 2000kms.

Some people have had catastrophic failures early into the life of the bike, which is no bueno. Thats why I recommend owning a trailer if you buy new (they have a 2 year unlimited warranty) or buying one that has at least 10,000kms on it so that any kinks or major issues have been worked out.
I bought mine at just under 10k and I hit 12k just the other day. No issues other than a small leak from a torn gasket.
>its not a bad idea to check major nuts/bolts for tightness on a regular basis.

>>33364311
>full auto Obrez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NptgWS2jVbU

vid related. Also watch the guy's face at 1:13 ish

>>33373503
the guy on the left looks like he's doing a little dance

>>33397187
>Mostly, it's people who purchase them and treat them like an average Jap bike.
If I'm paying more than a Jap bike for something marketed for off road use, I'd expect it to be at least as durrable and reliable as the Jap bike.

>Some people have had catastrophic failures early into the life of the bike, which is no bueno. Thats why I recommend owning a trailer if you buy new (they have a 2 year unlimited warranty) or buying one that has at least 10,000kms on it so that any kinks or major issues have been worked out.
If those bikes experience major issues so often after less than 6000 miles that you recomend people buy a trailer to prepare for it, then they are pieces of shit. There is no other way to put it, especially when they're marketed as being capable of off road use. I would never trust something that finicky for off road use.

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>>33397563
>two totally different things cost different amounts
>what is supply and demand

I said some people. Some people have had catastrophic failures in the first 100 miles on their brand new F150. Does that mean fords are shit or that they got a lemon? Consider how many F150s are on the market as opposed to how many Urals. Only about 1000 are imported annually, so one or two failures sound out pretty loud. People will write about their bike that broke. People don't write about their bike that didn't.
Check out the soviet steeds or Russian iron forums. Lots of people do some pretty intense shit with these bikes.

I've ridden mine in 10f before. Regularly ride below freezing. Some crazy fuck in my town has one as well and I've seen him riding around in -10

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>>33365802
>>33397187
>>33397617
I really want an Ural, but they seem to require you to be good at tinkering to be able to maintain them.

Would I be able to handle one with zero mechanical aptitude/skill?

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>>33397670
Get one and find out. Best way to learn is to do it. The forums are really helpful too! Just know where the nearest mechanic who works on them is located in case you need them.
You can find them used for pretty cheap, if you scan Craigslist in all the major cities near you
>had to drive two states over for mine
>that's also where the nearest mechanic is
A guy in my town was selling a limited edition anniversary edition which I wanted bad, but was 2x my price range.

>>33397617
>two totally different things cost different amounts
How are they totally different? The Ural may be marketed for off road use, but your statements clearly show that it isn't reliable enough for that purpose rendering it a fancy street bike that you just keep around to show off when it's not in the shop. Next you're going to tell me it's supposed to leak oil.

>Only about 1000 are imported annually, so one or two failures sound out pretty loud.
Yes, that means lemons leave the factory at a higher rate than other competing companies due to poor QC. You know, the same reason people shit on Taurus.