are special forces just a meme? >Train 12 navy seals + 8

>>33332456
Wow it's almost like they're still humans!!

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>>33332456

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>>33332456
Maybe OP doesn't know what bullets are, maybe he thinks operators carry deflector shields or some voodoo magic, maybe he just watched lone survivor and came here to bitch about it.

>>33332456
They are military members who are trained in specific skills.

Take them against regular Infantryman, probably get skull fucked. That's all Infantryman do. There is no 9-5 dayjob like pogs have.

>>33332456
>a dozen illiterate afghan goat herders
What difference does literacy make in combat? Are they reading poetry at each other? Was joke warfare translated into Arabic?

>>33332456
You're forgetting the part where that rarely happens, and are giving undue weight to the rare times it does happen.

Also,
>guys who became famous for having been educated in the first generation of terrorist madrassas
>illiterate
Nigga, they probably spoke at least three languages (most likely Pashtun, Arabic, and either another Afghan language or Urdu) fluently.

>>33332456
1 million each? Is that legit?

>>33333858
Undoubtedly more. Training never stops, anon.

I guess in video games, the higher levelled operators have higher def and hp.

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>>33333509
>afghan
>Arabic
At least try to educate yourself

>>33333426
A ranger platoon is the most dangerous light infantry on the battlefield for a reason.

Elite infantry in numbers with the logistics and ammunition to sustain a fight are going to be more effective than Special Forces

>>33334146
>platoon
>50 guys will reck 12 guys

TyT tier intellectual honesty

An author I rather liked (Douglas Porch, did a book on the Foreign Legion, French Conquest of Morocco, french conquest of sahara, "Hitler's Mediterranean Gamble" and "Myths of counterinsurgency") seemed to have a thesis (not the main one) about the limitations of special forces and that they were, in more eloquent terms, "A meme". The jist of it being that a state will turn to lionizing and putting more pride and hope and emphasis in their dashing special forces when it finds their conventional might challenged by brutal and miserable quagmire or disasters (Britain in the Western front, Britain in WW2) or just run in circles by an insurgency (USA in Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq, France in Algeria). This can lead to a special snowflake ethos of the special forces taking hold where they jealously preserve an authority on COIN and act as if it's some gnostic kabbalistic mysteries that only they are properly initiated into.
Tl;dr is pretty much >>33333426 and >>33334146 and the thesis wasn't some limp dick liberalism or anything, a core point I remember in the myths of counterinsurgency was him contending that the standard military force and its systems are far better suited to handle counterinsurgency than Coindinsta special snowflakes, and special forces being good but not this Davidian sling that can make a significant impact on the battlefield. Off the battlefield yeah sure. Conventionals couldn't do a Vermork heavy water raid or kill Osama.

>>33334174
Different guy.

Want to know how I know you don't know shit about the military?

I'll tell you. No platoon has 50 guys except maybe bootcamp. Marines max out at 36, 3 squads of 12. And some Army guy said they only have two fireteams. Seems weird but whatever.

Anyway you're stupid, back to call of duty bitch.

>>33334130
>At least try to educate yourself

My friend, do you know what a "madrassa" (in this context) is, or the significance of the Arabic language?

>>33334193
>>33333426
>>33334146

Aren't SEALs supposed to all be trained in aquatic BS like diving with SCUBA crap etc.? That costs money and takes time and is a specialty skill - a skill basically pointless in A-stan.

>>33334227
They learn underwater demolition amongst other things. It's not applicable in Afghanistan, but you would be seriously stupid to base your entire training program around a single conflict. What if they trained everyone in mountain warfare and counterinsurgecy to a high degree while neglecting their traditional skills? Ok, they may be better at fighting the Taliban. Now when they are called up in the middle of the night to deploy covertly to Taiwan because the Chinese navy is blockading the ports, they're quite literally dead in the water. There are multiple special units for different types of missions. Delta was created for counterterrorism and hostage rescue, even though they do a lot more than that. SEALs were created for martime demolitions, reconnaissance, etc. The Air Force even has a special forces type weather unit so that other units can infiltrate an area more easily. Most of the time, these various teams aren't doing their primary missions because we're not in a conventional war with a power nation(s). That doesn't mean that they never use those skills, or that they aren't going to be needed at a moment's notice.

are you just a meme?

>>33334227
What I do know about Navy Seals. They are no joke.

I was a Marine Infantryman. We all had to go to the pool. Us regular Infantry just swam and didn't care. Swim qual 2, easy shit.

But the seals and recon marines, they got hazed, it was brutal. I was watching and pretty sure they just exhaust guys until they drown.

>>33334488
so what were they doing to them? I had to swim 800m long course freestyle in under 10min for Austrian "SFs".

>>33334518
Put weight on your head. Proceed to make them heavier. Tread water for 40 min. Then start underwater swimming. Basically keep doing shit till you pass the fuck out.

>>33334518
>>33334673
This guy kinda got it.

They made them swim until I thought they would drown. And then kept swimming.

I'm just an 0311. I do swim qual 2 and go eat nachos. Well I was an 0311. Still eat nachos.

>>33332456
Pretty sure they dont all get killed on their first assignments.

>>33332456
>commandos are thought of as being elite, invincible warriors. But in reality they're just soldiers who have been trained to fight under a different set of circumstances. When an operation goes right, it makes the headlines. But when it goes wrong, they die just like everybody else.

Burn notice is a great show, and a lot of the times they make good points.

Seals are overrated Hollywood Queens anyway. And Luttrell is a snobby little fuck as well.

Afghanistan has pretty much been at war for the last 100 years.

Those people aren't just goat herders.
Having said that. Four seals do not an army make. 2 to 1 odds will fuck anybody eventually.

>>33332521
>>33332616
>>33333237
good job OP you sure triggered the kiddies who think SF = american heroes
kek

>>33332456
You do realize the ones who get killed so frequently by goatfuckers with 70 year old AKs and RPGs from truckbeds tend to be the dumbass middle eastern "soldiers" we train, right?
Yes obviously American and NATO troops are going to die in combat. That's how war works. You're not the first person to point out that war is not economically feasible for most countries in most situations. You're also spouting some dumb shit on the level of "hurr why build tanks if muzzies keep getting their tanks blown up durr"

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>SEALs

>>33334929
>buttmad burger detected
Your army is overrated deal with it

>>33333858
Takes a lot of cash to train aka invest into trained soldiers. Usually why you have to sign for multiple years on some forces.

>>33334193
What tends to make them special is the fact that they are trained in everything, and have a lot of training behind them compared to the average soldier. Also a lot of them are held to a higher standard when it comes to being physically fit.

Against a near peer adversary elite infantry becomes much, much more important.
If WW3 were to happen I expect the rangers to balloon from a regiment to multiple brigades.

Special Forces/SOF missions against near peers are limited to infiltration, sabatoge, critical intel gathering and precision weapons targeting. Force multiplication (training friendly forces like militias) is going to be of reduced utility in the main theater of operations - esp in an environment where the front line is extremely fluid, in a fully mechanized war, where lines can shift back and forth tens of miles a day.

The bread and butter against a near peer adversary is mechanized infantry followed light (motorized) infantry. Heliborne Air assault forces become next to useless save for a quick reaction force that deposits its troops miles behind the FLOT. Paratroopers become marginally more useful if you can achieve air superiority (you'll basically never achieve air dominance against a near peer, they have capable air defense)

>>33335003
You think that you can mass produce SOF dudes, even on the basic Ranger level. You can't, not without lowering the standards.

>>33332456
They fucked up preparation stage. It does not matter who enemy is and how strong you are if you're not prepared and planned your mission poorly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08-uyfp2iPM

>>33332456
Every fucking time I look at Emile's face, I think of that movie where he kills some kid with Justin Timberlake.

>>33335013
Better to have 100 dudes rated from 6 to 8, than only 30 dudes rated 9 and 10

>>33335013
if you lower the standards you can let women in and simply breed more soldiers, Dont you see?

>>33332456
they're SOF because they have more balls than brains. thats pretty much the whole point.

our best&brightest dont join the military

>>33335113
>our best&brightest dont join the military
This right here
Smart people don't need to join the military because they can find a job in the normal world.
The military is just an adult kindergarden

>>33334991

Yeah it's just a mistake more of the popular culture and the self-deluding of the commanders or president (perhaps the special forces too, I don't know) into a degradation of special forces from >>33335003 >infiltration, sabotage, HvT, critical intel gathering and precision weapons targeting. into the war on terror COINdinista Call-of-Duty "Special forces can and should do anything and everything high speed low drag while grunts can just stand around with their dicks in their hands because hurr hurr". Turns out lead doesn't give a shit if you're a perfect human specimen and have millions of dollars worth of training when enough of it is being thrown your way. And that grunts trained specifically to get into firefights are remarkably good, equal or even superior to a special operator in said firefight.


>>33335113

Pretty sure a mark of the SOF is that they tend to have brains along with balls and not just be meatheads.

>>33335137
"smart" people in the military are still dumber than smart civilians

>>33334227
That's the entire problem. SEALs are misused. They shine when operating in and around water. That's their entire purpose. Need a boat or oil rig taken down? Call the SEALs. Need something assaulted from a beach or waterway? Call the SEALs. Need deep recon and have a way to insert/extract via water? Call the SEALs.

Want guys who are great at dealing with a myriad of problems that come up with long recon missions purely over land? Call in a scout/sniper unit or the Rangers' recon element(s).

The problem with Red Wings wasn't necessarily that those guys couldn't move and shoot. The problem is they didn't know their terrain, they shit the bed when it came to comms preparedness and per usual, they tried to replace preparedness and solid mission planning with a SEAL tough attitude, which will always get you killed.

That was a job for a Ranger recon team and a small sniper detachment with more Rangers on standby in the general area for direct action QRF. JSOC command is infested with SEALs and probably fought to "get theirs."

As far as OP's "what's the point of special operations?" Just that, to conduct special operations. If you have piss poor planning and piss poor mission preparedness, it doesn't matter how good the guys on the ground are.

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>>33335144

I assume within those smart civilians those rural and suburban retards aren't as smart as those city people?

>>33335160
This. The SEAL's are navy and those guys have zero infantry tradition. It's not like Rangers or even Green Berets who all come from very solid infantry foundations.

>>33335144
How small is your penis? Because you are way over compensating.

>>33333858
Your average aircrew member gets about 1 to 2 million in just AIT. The swoopty dudes in 160th get a few million more. Helicopters aren't cheap.
>Blackhawk crewchief

The afghans are LIGHTER equipped and BETTER equipped

Stuff like body armor is very bad for actually winning firefights

>>33335168
>>33335192
At first I was gonna call him a retard too, but his post isn't wrong. What is considered smart in the civilian world has a higher ceiling than in the military, for instance most doctors and rocket scientists are civilians. It doesn' have to mean that the military is a bunch of mouth breathers, but just that their standard for "smart" is likely below that of other fields that rely way more on brains than the military, fields that happened to largely be civilian. He didn't say civilian retards were smarter than smart people in the military. Shouldn't really come as any surprise, since despite how big a deal the military is to the kind of people who browse /k/, it is an incredibly niche field within human society, and one in the more physically and practically oriented end.

>>33335333
>for instance most doctors and rocket scientists

What the fuck? Are you high on Ritalin or something where you just talk?

>>33335354
Nah, born that way. Get's worse if I do MDMA though.

How does a Chinook get shot down by an RPG-7
Thats the real question

>>33335106

Except no.

It's better to have those 6-8s bolstering the regular forces as noncoms or scouts.

The 9's and 10's are perfect right where they are as SPECIAL operations. The problem is that people think that Specops can solve all problems in all ways, instead of their specialized roles.

>>33335370
MDMA? What's that? I do shrooms and LSD. Is that a psychedelic?

>>33335374
>THIS IS WHAT WE TRAINED FOR
>energetic yelling from QRF troops on board the chinook
>gets show down and everyone dies
B R A V O

>>33334719
Right? It's often silly, but always fun, and be damned if they don't have a fairly realistic attitude towards violence.

>>33335374
They're a big fucking target and are extremely vulnerable on insertion and extraction. Put an RPG into one of the many vulnerable spots on those birds, especially at the altitudes they are operating at in the mountains there, and it's pretty fucking easy tbhfam.

Helicopters are extremely fragile, even big lumbering dual main rotor ones like a Chinook.

It's happened many times from Vietnam on up to GWOT.

>>33332456
>High mortality rate in highly dangerous missions
As if it's some kind of a surprise for you, they're not supermen, they obey bullets just like you and me.

>>33335122
Cool Story bro.

I for one enjoyed becoming a man through the military and getting free college afterwords. Got accepted to Stanford due to the job I did in the corp.

>>33335421
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CERVIX SEMPRA MARINES HOOOOOOOOOARGH DEVULDAGS

>>33335430
Different guy. Still tho I was a Marine.

Do you know how gay and retarded you sound? I'm embarrassed for you.

>>33335380
Component of ecstacy which can be taken by itself.

I couldn't shut up, and just kept writhing and smearing my face all over the leather sofa I was supposed to sleep in because my skin was so sensitive.

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>>33335421
>>33335444
How do you know someone was in the marines?
[spoiler]they will tell you[/spoiler]

>>33335445
Ok. That sounds kinda fucked up. I'll stick to shrooms. The worst thing I do is have conversations with trees until my wife drags me away like a child.

>>33335470
Yeah but the other guy and you are pussies. So how do you know when a guy's a pussy? He will post like you just did.

>>33335482
>only real men join the muhreens
>pussies post on the net about how shit muhreens are
could you be any more triggered right now?

>>33335494
You can always tell the younger generation. "Triggered" "keywords". I'm calm as a Hindu cow. #facebook

>>33335470
You're on a weapons board specifically talking about people in the military. What kind of retard would be surprised/amazed/baffled/dumbfucked when people bring up their military service is germane to the conversation?

>>33335626
>germane
Nazis are not welcome here.

>>33335333

There are doctors, scientists and engineers in the army, if anything, trends indicate that the technification of warfare will mean a higher need for education(which... usually is followed by intelligence).

And thats without pointing out that all officers are technically military theorists.

>>33335122
Gee whiz, guess my degree in aeronautical science and thousands of flight hours are going to be useless in the real world. What was I thinking going to into adult kindergarten?

>>33335701
>look mom i am larping as a pilot on 4chan again

>>33335330
Yeah cause it doesn't fire any bullets, dummy. It only helps you not lose a firefight.

>>33335471

It causes your brain to dump serotonin which makes you feel absurdly happy. A very popular party drug for that reason. It also raises your body temp so you sweat like a fiend, which causes dehydration, your jaw will tense and you'll chew your lips. Then when you run out of serotonin you'll crash and feel shitty the next day. All in all not a bad drug, you can't abuse it too badly since you only have so much serotonin, but the dehydration has killed people before and the post-use crash has put already depressed people over the edge before too. If you ever try it be sure to drink water.

Also a silk scarf, a bit of rabbit fur or other soft material is great to fondle while you're rolling. It goes well with an acid trip too, gives it a rosier tint than some people tend to get with just acid.Take the MDMA about an hour or so after you drop the acid. Be sure to drink water.

>>33332456
Yes they are.

>>33335482
but anon! you're posting too!!

>>33334719
I read this in his voice...

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>>33332456
No matter how good you are a bullet will still kill you, being "special forces" doesn't make you immune to bullets.

>>33332521
If you read the book, Luttrell literally has a whole paragraph about
>this can't happen to navy seals because navy seals are the best and navy seals win every time and im a navy seal so im the best so im a navy seal that wins all the time and it was the liberal media that restricted our ROE so navy seals couldn't win anymore

I read maybe 5 chapters of that garbage and gave up on it.

In the end you can train as much as you want, have the most expensive weapons and gear and still fail miserably against larger numbers/unexpected situation/lack of luck or all of those mixed together. Many such cases.