Taking a short break from the constant America vs Russia threads,

no vatni/k/s with any insight?

>>33321660
despite arguable technological superiority of European nato, Russia still gets the upper hand because of its mature logistics. This is one area in which we are helplessly reliant on the US.

>>33321916

But how about tactics and numbers? Germany and England alone have that over Russians

>>33321962
The problem with that is mass coordination, mobilization, and logistics. Russia could have an advantage there because it only needs to work with itself

>how Europe (NATO only) compares to Russia militarily?
something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwGqn2HeI8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP4nhC4mHRA

>>33322702
Have you ever had to work with Russians?

Russian army is strongest and most experienced on continent
Russian logistics is best on continent
Russian equipment is on par with European if not better

>>33321660

Europe, bar France, collapses. European militaries aren't built to work outside of a NATO framework and without American support: the majority of countries lack everything needed for even low-intensity warfare.

Then you should consider than most Euro armies, despite supposed "technological superiority", are similar to the Russians: only a few units are kept in an adequate state and the others are left to fend for themselves or outright disbanded. Sum that with the complete lack of true combat experience (the best non-Fench militaries had was to be auxiliares to the US in shooting some sand people) and we have quite a terrible picture.

Why do you think people here in Yurop throw a fit when Trump told we had to "defend ourselves"? We aren't ready for it, we don't want it and we don't have the money for it. Europe is STILL suffering a economical crisis, how do you explain to the voters that you have money for missiles against the "Russians" and for refugees but not for basic services?

Would you prefer retirement or tanks? There is a reason we sold external defense to the Americans. Pity it's coming to bite us in the ass.

>>33323040
>*continent (Asia)

>>33321660

Then there is of course coordination. For decades the Brits have shoot down every attempt to integrate European militaries (fuckin' Brits, first they cripple us by getting shitholes like Bulgaria in the EU and then they flee the crime scene) thus there is NO non-NATO coordination in place bar shitty "combat groups". Without the Americans, we can't even talk to each other, and there are merely some propaganda units (French-German efforts, mostly) of questional combat value.

Thank God, this is all theory. We have American power covering our asses, for now until America collapses, and that will far in the future.

I guess.

>>33323963

That part depends on how much time NATO has to prepare.

Give NATO less than a week or two and they don't last long.

Give NATO a month to call up reservists and de-mothball some old equipment, and they can probably hold the Russians off at the Polish border.

Give NATO a year and the Russians won't make it out of their own borders.

The longer the Euros have to prepare and work out a force structure without Americans, the better they do. The Industrial, population, and wealth advantages NATO has is overwhelming. If faced with an existential threat, there's also plenty of political will to put those resources into use.

>>33323972
>American education
Eurasia

>>33321962
>tactics and numbers? Germany and England alone have that over Russians
what the fuck am I reading? neither country can even field an entire division and they would get annihilated by Russian artillery boxes.

>>33321660
Technology is more or less irrelevant; it's rather disconcerting to see that people believe that wars are won or lost based on cold hard battle calculus.

The most salient factor in Europe vs Russia is the lack of cultural similarity and common language among the Europeans. I mean just look at Europe as a whole; they haven't been able to unify and can't even stay in an economic union for more than 20 years.

There would be internal conflicts up the wazoo which could seriously screw logistical efforts, combined operations, strategic, operational, and tactical levels of war, etc. Communication will be FUBAR especially in instances where the average GI Nigel has to interact the average GIs Hans and Pierre--to say nothing of the differing doctrines of the respective fighting forces.

Then there is the logistical issues that arise from a lack of commonality of weapons platsforms. Enjoy trying to keep armies that have 18 different IFV, MRAP, MBT, ATGM, CAS platforms, rifle, etc variants that have no commonality of parts supplied. Try cross training mechanics on all those pieces of equipment and see how well everything can be maintained.

This is just a few issues that would arise in the event Europe alone needed to engage the Russians.

>>33324246
lol no

In it's prime Russia was a match or better for NATO, including the US forces in Europe.

Without the US Europe's anemic forces would crumble beneath the Russian onslaught.

It's what happens when you no longer prioritize defense spending, and consider the military to be a necessary evil.

They'd put up a fight, but other than the Swiss I really don't think any part of Europe would last long against the Russian Bear.

Of course all this is assuming no nukes.

Russia essentially marches through Eastern Europe, and eventually overpowers Germany.

France and England actually have decent forces but with American support withheld, it might be a struggling and defensive battle for both.

>>33321660
>Can we talk about how Europe (NATO only) compares to Russia militarily?
You mean an america vs russia thread?

The issue is that the EU/NATO relies very heavily on the U.S. for support and coordination. Without the U.S. Russia would have the upper hand. They just would, because the EU currently doesn't work cohesively. They have no reason to outside of a few exercises every year, mostly with the U.S. (to my knowledge at least.)

Russia could, and would use that. Imagine Russia taking a page out of Germany's book and Blitzkreiging into Poland. Once Polan falls, pretty much all of Eastern Yurop belongs to the Ruskies. If The UK, France, or Germany faltered at all in diving straight into the fight, Russia could pick Western Europe apart.

Europe's strength would come in its unity, which it does not really have in any meaningful way that would help in a war.

>>33327062
kek, but seriously do consider the hypothetical with

>Ignore article 5 and assume that America watches from a distance.

in mind.

>>33321660
Urope BTFO by vatnik shilling overnight

It would come down to how much the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Poland could coordinate the differing countries in the end. Those five would be the ones that would have to lead the fight from major points and attach the smaller countries to themselves, essentially.

At sea Europe would completely fuckstomp Russia. In the air they would have a big edge, European air forces are well connected.

It's the ground forces being connected enough to make a cohesive defence that would determine the true matter. I believe they'd hold the line eventually, but it'd be bloody.

>>33324882

Russia is not the USSR, and the USSR was a match for NATO with it's Warsaw pact allies.

Now? Russia has half the population of the USSR, the gap in technology was blown open, and all 6 Warsaw Pact countries are now members of the EU or NATO.

File: 51559105df5c.jpg (110KB, 600x545px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 600x545px

>>33328421
hahahaha what fucking line. what sea and air edge are you referring to, /k/retin. there is no convetional frontline in 2017. there is a bunch of craters smoldering at what used to be rammstein and italian air bases. there are russian subs cockblocking your pathetic excuses of navies in homeports. there are cross border mlrs barrages glassing baltics and iskanders aiming at berlin. there is russian mobilization and division-sized mech maneuvers piercing through meme stryker units. all within the span of 6-8 hours after commencing hostilities

and then there is fait accompli. there are feckless eurobureaucrats succumbing to anything russia demands, rushing to put signature at any armstice kremlin has to offer. because you have neither political consensus, centralized military industrial complex, combat eager demographics or stomach for war. because you can't give a rat's ass about muslims ravaging your children down the street, much less some angry slavs taking over shitty buffer states you can barely find on the map

>>33324882
>switzerland stopping russia

I appreciate your faith in us. But the russians could steamroll us simply with numbers. Our army would probably even cooperate with NATO in case of war