Was this a realistic depiction of WW2? https://www.youtube.

>>33272462
>don't even get the chance to "fight" your enemy
>just die instantly from some mortar or stray bullet you never saw
this has been a pretty common occurence since artillery was invented

>>33272462
>How do people come out sane from this?
Many of them don't. My theory is that most of your hardcore grunts that experienced the bulk of fighting during WWII, are long dead. The ones we have left now are mostly support personal, albeit a few outliers. There were hundreds of thousands of mental cases after WWII, many of them being swept under the rug of history, our misguided perceptions of WWI being driven by Hollywood movies and documentaries that portray a complete falsehood of what really took place. Many actual combat vets of that era died young from Drinking, suicide, or ended in up mental hospitals; but that goes against the grain of what we've been indoctrinated to believe about the Greatest Generation. My grandfather who I never met killed himself in the 1960s and was a veteran of WWII. These types of statistics are an extremely taboo part of our history and culture, and rarely get any dialogue because it makes for shit propaganda

>>33272555
You're probably right. My great uncle landed on omaha beach and saw some hardcore shit. He never spoke about it except once, before I left for Afghanistan. He gave me a hug afterwards (the only time he ever hugged me) and he died when I was overseas. No one was ever really close with him except my grandfather (who fought in korea) and my family has no idea that he ever told me anything about his time in the army because he kept it so quiet around them as well.

>>33272462

>firing a bar one-handed accurately
>corpses are bulletproof
>batting away grenades

Nope.

>>33272653
Yea the BAR bit was a little wonky, those rifles are so fucking heavy you'd need to be a power lifer to be able to fire that full-auto with one hand

>>33272555
It's true. Gramps was innanam. Saw some shit. Died an alcoholic. I probably will too.

Why did the japanese guy seppuku?

I talked to a vet of the Special Service Force once who told me they stopped Christmas cards and reunions in the mid 1950's because he got sick of hearing who else had killed themselves in the last year. It sounds like it happened a lot but was rarely spoken of.

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>>33272555
Fun fact: SOF personnel are less likely to commit suicides and experience PTSD than conventional combatants

Combat arms overall has less suicides than POG/Fobbits.

What would a conventional war in the modern era look like? (Not just the US shooting million dollar missiles on illiterate arab peasants)

>>33272991

It would result in automated warfare and/or exosuits after everyone gets BTFO by endless chemical weapons and thermobaric shells. Large offensives will become simply impossible between two modern armies, at least with current infantry. We simply have become way too good at killing eachother. The shock in casualties and brutality of the fighting will surpass that of WWI greatly - it will be like nothing the world has ever seen before.

Try to advance on an enemy position? Dead instantly from an autonomous gun turret that calculates range, bullet drop, and windage to pump you full of lead before you can even tell its there. Try to overwhelm it? Get nailed by thermobaric artillery that airbursts and turns your insides to jelly regardless of the fact that you are in cover.

>>33272462
Holy Shit! It's like Windtalkers 2, this is the biggest piece of shit I've seen in years

>>33272888
SOF has a community and support network that is rather inclusive and better geared towards defeating post combat problems. I need sources on combat arms having less suicides than POG units, I was combat arms and I've lost numerous comrades since ETS from suicide or drug overdoses. It's a silent demon noone seems to gives two shits about. Not taking away from POG units, I just don't believe this is true

>>33273096
was it at least better than the thin red line? *gags*

>>33273095
That technology doesn't even exist yet.

>>33272462
The battlefield is pretty crowded. You would want to avoid huge groups of guys like that.

But yes, part of what was so disorienting about warfare in WWI and WWII was dying from an enemy you could not see.

>>33273244
>Dying from an enemy you could not see
This is EVERY war anon. No combat is like Hollywood. You'll be hard pressed to identify targets engaging you from even 200m away.

>>33273095
This is a lot of bullshit, but PGM's could make movement on the battlefield extremely difficult. Any massed formations would get BTFO by PGM's. I have a hunch that everything would slow down and we might start to see something like a stalemate ala WWI develop. Hard to tell though.

In any case, it would be a battle of information as much as it would be about guns and bullets.

>>33272462
why didn't he become a streatcher barrer or someting else if he ddn't want to shoot people?? why did he go into the front line??

>>33273264
Sure, but 20th century warfare intensified this massively compared to the idealized notions of warfare that 19th century people had been raised to expect. There was also a new element of randomness to the battlefield that has only been compounded by the proliferation of aircraft. Before long range indirect artillery fire and modern aircraft, when you were off the battlefield you were unlikely to die from hostile action.

It is not without reason that WWI was so disorienting for the grunts and led to so much disillusionment...

>>33273198

Yes it does? We absolutely have weapon systems that are semi autonomous, or at the very least controlled remotely. There are systems that can be installed on an AR that allow you to track moving targets and fire the gun for you when the shot is lined up for a hit - and thats on the civilian market.

Thermobarics would probably be the biggest problem, as they just BTFO everything regardless of cover. Surviving thermobarics requires defeating the overpressure wave they create - which means a sealed vessel. From this scenario i could possibly see exosuits becoming a reality, as anything living that isnt in one or a sealed bunker/vehicle would be killed instantly.

Also remember what we see is only what we see. Of fucking course there are cool toys that remain hidden in black projects - and in a fullscale total war we would see them for the first time. Cant weigh in on those obviously since we dont know what they are yet.

>>33273285
That's where he wanted to help people.

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>>33273305
Imagine being a Civil War veteran that survived long enough to see the end of WWI. It had to be fascinating but at the same time horrifying to see how combat had evolved into the 20th century.

>>33272462
Combat scenes are beyond fucking bullshit, the if the Americans can't see the the fog, ain't no way the fucking gooks can either. Anytime someone gets shot it looks fucking goofy as fuck, especially that guy who gets shot in the cheek and then the forehead. I'd like to know what kind of pissy fucking bullets these nips are supposedly shooting than can be stopped by a think and probably rotten tree. Whatever is exploding near them isn't mortar fire, there wouldn't be any fucking flames in the explosion, just dust dirt and shrapnel. This movie buys into the phrase "War is Hell" way too fucking much. I don't know very much about this particular battle but I doubt it was ANYTHING like this movie, the entire fucking company moves in one blob with no small unit tactics or maneuvers and action upon contact is just "Fuck it do whatever!"

>>33273349
>This movie buys into the phrase "War is Hell" way too fucking much
Pretty much all war movies have done that since Saving Private Ryan and its opening scene.

>>33273095
There are treaty's (genava i) think
dictating what weaponry is to inhumane to use
As long as the other side does not become desperate the will abide by the law

Or face hard payback if the lose an
absolute surrender like the treaty of versialles on Germany
And face occupation

>>33273349
>Action upon contact is Fuck it DO whatever
This probably happens more than you'd like to imagine. No plan survives contact with the enemy

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>>33273364
Yeah, that's what PLs and NCOs are for. They're there to rein in the grunts and turn chaos into something organized.

>>33273344
The civil war was brutal in its own way, but yeah 20th century warfare has a special horrifying quality. Fuck, just the widespread use of gas warfare is enough to shatter any 19th century illusions of the glory of war in the old sense.

>>33273364
While there is some truth to what you said, generally you try to stay with your fire-team, your squad, your group or whatever. Not just run the fuck forward and do whatever.

>>33273359

Hague convention, which conviently the biggest players in the world stage never signed.

Regardless, considering we are talking about WW3, no one is going to honor a treaty at the cost of potentially losing as the cost of losing would be total annihilation regardless whether or not they used "banned" weapons.

In reality all those treaties do is to prevent our enemies from using those weapons on us while we reserve the right to use them because america is always right.

>>33273386
Guy I've been in urban combat, and I've seen PL's and NCO's turn into confused adolescents under fire. Yes I know not all units are created equal

>>33272645
Same story with my dad. He was a company medic in Korea, and spoke to me about his time there exactly 3 times:
>banged a nurse in a stolen jeep, sniper shot the radiator, he had to piss in it to get back to base
>during transit, slept on deck, mostly eating canned fruit, because he found a Navy regulations loophole about being able to grow a beard or something as long as he wasn't below decks
>dying soldiers always say they "I wanna go home" or wanting their mom

Other than that, he was staunchly anti-war based on politics (was a conscientious objector to begin with), but fiercely patriotic. He just told the board to be put wherever they could use him, just that he wouldn't take another person's life.

So off to combat medic school he went.

>>33273095
Any country on the verge of a loss would just launch nukes. You can't "win" war anymore.

>>33272555

My great-grandfather jumped during Normandy. He was the nicest man you could ever meet, but he was a realist in how he approached life.

From what I've been told, my grandfather was the same way until he went to Vietnam, where he was in the 101st in 69-70, and when he came back turned into an alcoholic badass asshole. Quit drinking when I was a teen and he's halfway between being really really nice and still being an asshole. Short temper, which he didn't have before going off to war. He doesn't talk much about it though.

>>33273426
This. Any war between the great powers is more likely to be skirmishing etc rather than full on high intensity operations to the death.

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>>33273412
>and I've seen PL's and NCO's turn into confused adolescents under fire
All of them? For an extended period of time? Could you greentext?

>>33273403
If the dont honour the treaty the losing country will face surrender conditions simular to Germany in ww1 ww2 the treaty of versialles in ww1

And the complete occupation and installation of a puppet state by the winner

still considering how deadly modern weaponry is just look at liveleak Syria
Entire city's will be annihilated and mass casualty will make ww1 and ww2 look like childs play

>>33273426

Well yeah, obviously. That entire debate hangs soley on the assumption that nukes are not brought into play, because then the game ends and everyone loses. Which makes the debate dumb and pointless, but hey its still entertaining to discuss.

>>33273465
Nothing worth greentexting just random confusion and lack of radio coordination/communication from random SAF and RPGs. Even the best training can't always mentally prepare someone for how they will react under fire. On one patrol i remember my PSG's vehicle breaking contact with the convoy, losing radio signal, and coming back head on towards our convoy somehow, completely and utterly disoriented and lost. We had a LT who didn't know his head from his ass(nothing special) and ND'd a slug from a M500 into a CHU. In the end people are just human and make human mistakes

>>33273271
Information is ez to get now. Even with drones artillery strikes can't accurate hit ukranian positions or likewise in Syria only back and forth rockets seem to work against 'mobile' assets. Warfare isn't going to be different for a country that like movement because movement is hard without fire. There's too much fire nowadays to move effectively. I agree with the anon, it really doesn't matter if we start war or not because it wouldn't be decisive in particular with a nuclear power involved.

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>>33273512
>Even the best training can't always mentally prepare someone for how they will react under fire
I'd even say it never can. You won't really know how you react until you're put into that situation in reality. Training just gives you the tools to cope with what you're facing after you get over the initial shock and confusion. Doubly so for leaders.
>In the end people are just human and make human mistakes
Naturally, but stuff like losing radio contact and getting lost, or an officer NDing a service weapon are the kind of stuff that's just not supposed to happen, but I suppose there's quite a bit of stuff like this the average soldier will manage to fuck up.

>>33273601
Field/combat conditions create an atmosphere of imperfection. Nothing ever goes right, and when it goes Wrong it really goes WRONG.

>>33273364
This reminds me of one soldiers story who charged to the top of hamburger hill. (the real battle, not the movie) He said once everyone started taking fire they were all were running around in chaos. After a AK round bounced off the dirt and hit him in the chest he was still alive and decided to run up the hill. It was that simple.

>>33273626
I believe that 100%. The movie does a pretty good job at portraying the confusion and displacement of troops I'm sure was standard in Nam

>>33273594
>Information is ez to get now.
Depending on countermeasures, this isn't necessarily the case in a war between two first rate armies. Proper air defences, ASAT, and electronic warfare will all have their role in masking the information battlefield.

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>>33273623
>Nothing ever goes right, and when it goes Wrong it really goes WRONG.
I can attest to that for field conditions during conscription and excercises, but not combat. Having your radio and two trucks break down at the same time, your platoon recon unit missing its ride because of a communications mishap, all the while you're working with half the manpower, no PL, no personal vehicle, in a worthless AO and your company is rapidly mobilizing to dodge a mechanized battalion makes you understand where Murphy's law is coming from.

>>33273751
>Having your radio and two trucks break down at the same time, your platoon recon unit missing its ride because of a communications mishap, all the while you're working with half the manpower, no PL, no personal vehicle, in a worthless AO
Now imagine doing that in a combat zone, and the enemy has been watching you since you rolled out the gate, and you've been going nonstop for 7 months. Murphy's Law wreaks havoc once it's let out of the bottle

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>>33273868
Well I wouldn't sign up for it.

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>>33273344
Imagine living long enough post Civil War to drive a jeep.

>>33273950
>Get in yella belly we're making the Union decent again

>>33273950
holy shit awesome

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>>33272462
Just this.

>>33272555
Digits for good post from an oldfag.

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>>33274555
This.

>>33272843
You don't get a real reply because you're retarded.

>>33273156
Thin Red Line sucked.

>>33272555
I guarantee loads of kids never got told their ww2 vet grandfather committed suicide. I was told mine 'fell' off a church steeple after coming back from serving in the trenches of el alamein. Fell my arse.

>>33272555
My uncle was a gunner on a B-17 over Germany till 1945. He didn't seem that fucked up but he did remember a flak round decapitate the tail gunner and he kept a piece of the shrapnel which he let me keep till he passed away. It was some pretty cool shit.

>>33272555
This. My grandfather served in the 82nd airborne in Nam as an officer. I never met him since he was murdered by his own weapons from hitmen, but my parents, uncles/aunts, and my grandmother said he was a completely changed man. Before he was one to rule with a heavy handed, however, he was a fair and reasonable man who wouldn't touch a bottle of alocohol unless it was for a special event. When he (literally) took a 7.62x39mm round to the knee, he was sent back home. That's when he never said anything about his experience over there. He was always angry or furious, and became an alcoholic.

>>33272671
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug. Seriously, the shit people can do when under it is amazing.
>>33272653
Bodies may not be bullet proof, but they're bullet resistant so long as the round is unable to go completely through.

>>33272843
He brought dishonor to his emperor for failing to hold the line and isn't willing to be humiliated by being killed or captured by perceived filthy and inferior round eye gaijins, so he commited a ritual suicide to preserve his own honor.

This reminds me of a Red Army observer whose book I read. After his division took 150%+ casualties outside Rzhev he decided that it was only safe to be friends with one person. This person was then hit in the throat by a random piece of shrapnel from a stray mortar round. Then he mentioned that he stopped having friends for a very long time, and I had to stop reading.

As >>33272555 said it was considered wrong to talk about this shit. By the time he wrote that book he'd been sitting in depression from that shell for over 50 years. It was politically incorrect in the original sense pretty much everywhere.

>>33272555
I think this was actually known quite well by military tacticians of the time. There were apparently statistics that indicated that any fighting man had only a small window of time in which they were useful as a warrior. As time passed they would inevitably succumb to battle fatigue, and thus need to be cycled out with new recruits.

I will be honest and say that I feel I would be unaffected by viewing the horrors of war. I believe most of us here who have not seen real combat probably believe that, even if they know it is probably not true simply by examining the facts. It's a bizarre reaction to have, the same sort of mental behavior that allows a man to enter into combat in the first place, thinking he is nigh invincible because that kind of stuff just doesn't happen to him and his. Very bizarre.

>>33275587
That's fucking intense. Army Air Corps guys had the highest casualty ratio of all the American forces. Shit must have been surreal. One second you're getting tanked off your ass with your buddies, the next you're stuck in a ball turret hoping you don't get your face splattered all over the turret.

>>33272888
SOF personnel are 100% volunteers, have a support network while in and out of the service, and SOF units have a tendency to attract the kind of people who aren't bothered by death.
Volunteers will always have higher morale and be more resistant to PTSD

>>33276148
>I will be unaffected by viewing the combats of war
Sometimes young senpai it isn't the horrors of war that affect you, but the lack of social support and the complete inability to adapt back to civilian life that fuck with soldiers. Imagine feeling like you don't belong around those you love most, around the things you cherish most, and your peers having 0 ability to process what you're going thru. The assimilation process is what fucks up alot of vets IMO

>>33272991
A coventional war in the modern era would be over in a matter of weeks, at which point the losing side would go full MAD because they're already beaten.

>>33276154
From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

>>33276154
The tail gunner spot was reserved for the people with especially bad aim, or were otherwise just not as useful as the others because he was usually the first to die if they were attacked, and it was virtually impossible to get out of that spot quickly if the plane was going down. If you scroll down casualties lists you'll see a bunch of just 'Tail Gunner - MIA presumed KIA Did not see his chute'. In a high-G dive / turn / spiral they had absolutely no chance of getting out and even if it was just a loss of engine power or tail control it took them much longer to escape. There was a really informative 1943 aviation film that Jeff Quintey uploaded that I can't find now, but it went very in depth.

>>33276214
>>33276203
Absolutely horrifying

>>33272645
What did he tell you?

>>33276276

nerf MG42s

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>>33276286

>>33273095
The technological complexities and the costs involved to maintain a modern force lead me to believe that there would be some level of simplification/downgrading involved for quick mass production. Attrition will make it a necessity
This is extremely evident when it comes to 5th gen fighter aircraft like F-22 and F-35, UCAV's, and modern uparmored tanks with APS systems.
Modern, cutting edged military equipment is getting orders of magnitude more expensive than even cold war equipment.

Infantry will play a larger role than most can imagine, due in part to the prevalence of PGM's and Heavy ATGM's.
Even for russia it's easier and less technologically complicated to outfit infantry units with bleeding edged gear en masse

>>33276148
>I think this was actually known quite well by military tacticians of the time.
It wasn't a secret at all back then. There were pretty firm guidelines on when to rotate units off the front in most countries and modern wars (I think it was 3 months for Brits in WW1). Also worth noting the Soviets only deployed 6 million out of 10 million active duty members at any given time--the rest were scattered across the country training or garrisoning places in bumfuck nowhere like northern Iran. Even Stalin accepted that soldiers burnt out and needed regular vacations.

>>33276286
Oh shit. I think I've pissed myself. Well done, anon.

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>>33272555
My great grandfather fought at the battle of the Somme. NZ infantry.

Grandfather told me he only ever spoke about it to the neighbour down the road who was also there, they'd share a whiskey and spend hours talking with each other. Never said anything to his family and my grandfather only managed to eavesdrop on him once, he remembers hearing stories beyond horrific.

Years after his dad died he found a suitcase full of photos. It was hundreds of pictures from inside a hospital ship that he had taken and smuggled home. photos of the wingies(amputees) in recovery playing cards all the way to some of the horrible stuff you'd expect. Written on the back of one of the photos of a sea burial was "Buried at sea due to the morgue being full."

I have them here and would be willing to scan and upload them if people wish too see them.

>>33276148
God bless

>>33276069

Care to share the name of the book/author?

my grandfather was the gunner on an M20 in Korea. He wouldn't talk about it much, but I think that had to do more with the trauma he dealt out than the trauma he received. Occasionally he open the door a little about what white phosphorus rounds from that thing do to clumped infantry. real nigga shit.

>>33276406
>Somme

The one thing that immediately comes to mind when discussing ghastly battles

>>33276406
Of course you should scan and upload them. Do you know where you are?

>>33272653
the batting away hand grenade goofy shit was apparently real. its based on some dudes journal or shit who claimed that shit actually happened

>>33272462
>How do people come out sane from this?
More like, 'How can people be such pussies nowadays?'.

>>33276761
see>>33276191

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>>33276562
>what white phosphorous does to clumped infantry
IT'S LIT, at the night show

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>>33275819
>hitmen

Please greentext

War is sane bro. Peace on Earth Goodwill toward men is the crazy shit.

Life's about conflict & competition. period. Get sane with it or git ur ass to heaven.

>>33277175
>Be Inna commonwealth of PR, 1970s
>Be my mother at 15 years of age
>come home one day, walking back from school
>Only to see no one to greet her by the door and see a vehicle that she isn't familliar witb
>gate is open, so is door (closed but unlocked
>Hear a conversation between her father and some unknown men
>peeks by some area of the door
>End up witnessing her father (Aka, grandpops) get gundowned by his own guns (.357 lever gun and revolver, most likely Smith and Wesson)
>immediately hides in a closet while hearing the footsteps leave to the front door with the stolen firearms, later to speed away in a vehicle
>Later set up a trial after speeding up
>Jail both men, only to give them a slap on the wrist
>Later get off from prison after barely a month
>Whole town remains quiet about it
>Mother attempts to investigate it herself only to be warned by suspicous outsiders
>ignores otherwise and notices warning signs of suspects eyeing her
>Whole town tells her to drop it
>Refuses
>Family later convinces her to drop it
It wasn't till she was in her early 20s that my grandfather's side of the family was barely known due to two reasons:
1.) Grandpops made sure she and the rest of my grandmother's side of the family stayed away from the influence of his family.
2.) That side of the family was involved in some local syndicate involving small businesses and local plantations. They were the equivalent of a mafia according to her and my grandparents. They're also the reason why I will never meet my granddad or inherit a .357 revolver and lever action rifle.

>>33276709
I'll have a go at scanning them and upload them later in a different thread.

>>33272555
Supposedly my grandfather died in the late 80's from illness, I was born in '93. He was a petroleum engineer and I'm pretty sure my grandmother said it was workplace related, but he was Army Air Corps. Not totally sure if it could be suspiciously related or not. Flew in Europe.

>dad's cousin is vet of 4 combat tours in Vietnam
>1.5 tours as airborne
>.5 of second tour as volunteer in some Army recon unit
>2 tours as Something shady having earned SF patch
>see him like once every 5 years
>always has some new wife and spends all his time MIA on his motorcycle (not part of an MC)
>enlist in Army after 18th birthday with jump school contract
>he sits me down when I see him at a family funeral 1 month before first deployment
>had never said a word about Vietnam to me before, but goes on for two hours talking horrible, absolutely terrible experiences over glass after glass of bourbon
>war crime tier shit
>fucker has never seemed right and now I'm understanding why
>get back from first deployment
>hear he died being run down by a truck on his motorcycle and then shot to literal chunks with shotguns in New Mexico
>apparently got into shit with some folks in a white trash biker bar and stabbed 2 men to death, cut/stabbed up 3 others really bad
>their buddies caught up to him and got their payback
>remind myself to never gain an interest in snake eater shit
>do another combat deployment and GTFO .mil life
>luckily still normal

>uncle was in a Death Squad in his old country
>got drafted at 17 but found out he sort of liked that military life
>get hazed by Green Berets, ends up being in a notorious AnitCom death squad
>Only hear some mentions of clearing out communist villages
>One night listen to my dad and uncle talk about the old country over a few drinks
>uncle is now openly talking about what he did
>chopping off arms of captured commies
>doing a whole village because they'd find weapons or a commie hidden up in there
>having to mop all the time after interrogations

Thats the sum of it but talked all night

>>33278177
That's how I'd want to go out

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>>33272482

WW2 isn't my specialty so I am trying to track down a reliable source, but:

Army Weapon Systems Analysis, Part 2
Army Materiel Development and Readiness Command, 1979
>"As indicated in Chapter 8, artillery caused more than half the casualties in World War II."

Operation Barbarossa: the Complete Organisational and Statistical Analysis ...
By Nigel Askey
mentions again Artillery causing the large majority of WW2 casualties and the 10.5cm le FH 18/18M being the backbone of the Wehrmacht's field artillery.

Violence: A Micro-sociological Theory
By Randall Collins
Says
>WW1 Artillery caused 60% of british casualties
>WW2 artillery and aerial bombs caused 75% (of British?), bullets less than 10%
>Korea shells and mortars cause 60% of American casualties and small arms cause 3% of fatalities, 27% of wounds

>>33272555

I've seen the phrase "hicks, micks, and spics" come up in a few books regarding the makeup of frontline US grunts in WW2 and I swear I heard a similar sentiment in WW1 albeit with pic related because in WW1 you had the major phenomenon of upper class WASPs being frontline officers and not just pilots/sailors/whatever.

I think what you said has credence because I don't know if I've ever met someone whose grandpa was some 11B poor son of a bitch. Both mine were in the air corps as navigator/bombers.

>>33272482
Hell, arrow volleys have been doing that since antiquity.

>>33273118

I'm not him but I heard something similiar, at least in the sense of high POG casualties (without saying it's -more- than combat vets) in an NPR interview with Sebastian Junger, guy who was embedded in Restrepo.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=478962909 or http://archive.is/or1s6

>JUNGER: Well, it has its use. It's an important word. It describes the long-term reactions to trauma that some people get. Around 20 percent of people exposed to deep trauma wind up struggling with their reaction for many months or years. Keep in mind - only 10 percent of U.S. military is engaged in any kind of combat at all.
>But roughly half the U.S. military has applied for some form of disability based on PTSD. So there's 40 percent in there who really weren't traumatized, who come home and are - feel deeply alienating and out of place. The only language they have for it is PTSD. I actually don't think that's what is. And by definition, it can't be.
>What they're experiencing is the very real trauma of reintegration into modern society. People who serve two years in the Peace Corps have the same problem. The depression rates after people come home from the Peace Corps is astronomically high.

Bear in mind when he says "I don't think that's what it is" he's not saying "they are faking faggots" and being a patton slapper, but rather that they did not have the traumatic incident of war or even necessarily some single civilian life event.

It's a pretty interesting interview as he notes suicide rates declined in Europe during great wars of the 19th century, suicide rates and murder rates declined in NYC after 9-11 and notes the experiences of Sarajevo siege veterans (civilians) in somewhat missing the asabiyyah solidarity and sense of purpose in helping their family survive.

>>33273424

Was your dad Allen Alda

>>33276148

That kind of makes me understand how when given the choice armies are so dogmatic about only 18-24 for grunts. It's not universal, older men I think are ubiquitous among special forces and I remember the probably legendary account of 70-80 year old silver shields of Alexander fighting in some last Diadochi war, but it could easily be because for forlorn hope type poor souls you really need the ignorant spirit of immortality that you have only in that 18-24 range.

Like I was reading about Napoleon and how the draft for the revolutionary french was some tiny ass 18-25 bachelors only, or that by 1812 his army to invade Russia wasn't as good because the new recruits didn't have the stabilizing presence and initiation wisdom of the old grognards from his campaigns because they were either: "Dead, wounded, too happy in retirement or too old to be heroes in anything but reminiscence". And that boggled my mind - it was just 6 years from Austerliz and all that, how could they be too old and geriatric? They'd be 30s, maybe 40s at the worst. But I didn't consider the wear and tear on knees and backs from fucking marching (The British sail, the Russians die, the French from Napoleon to the Foreign legion BOOTS BOOTS BOOTS BOOTS MOVIN UP AND DOWN AGAIN THERES NO DISCHARGE IN THE WAR.) and that when you are in your 30s with a family the idea of face-fucking a line of lead shot doesn't have much appeal.

>>33276191

Not sure if you'll agree with it or not but the restrepo author guy remarks on that in >>33279138 interview . You go from the intimate, organized, solidarity-dominated atmosphere of the military to our hyper-individualistic sink or swim world where us average civvies have no idea what military life is like.

>>33273466
Will face surrender conditions similar to Germany in world war one
Completely fair ones then.

>>33279226
http://terminallance.com/2010/02/02/terminal-lance-9-the-natural-age-progression-of-a-weapons-platoon-commander/

Basically, this. It's a bizarre phenomenon, but basically... Most people enlist at 18, so you deploy a few times, live ten years in those deployments, so by the time you're twenty five you've lived six hundred years. People older than thirty have been getting shot at for eighty millennia by civilian standards.

Late twenty year olds in the military are like fourty year old civilians.

>>33276406
That's like being on /b/ and wondering if people want nudes.

>>33279326

Ahahah I love terminal lance, that reminds me of the one where he feels weird ordering around a guy older than him (at 24). I've been feeling more and more regret for not serving (though if I get my shit in order I could still enlist) but then I get something that dashes the whole romantic whimsical what-ifs out of my head.

I find that whole love-hate relationship you guys that served have really fascinating. Like it's an ethos I'd seen at Terminal lance and on /k/ since being here in 08 and a quote of some poster I almost remember verbatim. Was something like "The two biggest mistakes I made in my life were enlisting in the military and leaving the military"

>>33279383
There's an old saying: a bitching sailor is a happy sailor.

And kind of like Shakespeare's it's better to have loved, sorta. You can't go back and forget the military. Better to never sign up, because once you do it changes everything. And you hate being in, so you get out, and then you realize how fucking stupid civilians are, and realize the military did a lot right.

I think I'm in for a few more cycles of enlist/ get out/ enlist, but you get the idea. Grass is always greener.

>>33272555
My grandfather also fought in WW2. He died in '75 from cancer so I never met him, but I always hear stories from my grandmother. He came back a raging alcoholic and was like that basically the rest of his life. I also hear on a couple occasions, whenever there was the sound of fireworks outside, he'd cower under the kitchen table and wouldn't come out. I did some more research on the infantry division he was in, and supposedly they came across a concentration camp towards the end of the war too. But my grandmother says he never talked about it.

>>33279383
one of my sgts is 21 and he initially felt like shit ordering the e-4 and below around for whatever because some were older than he was.

now he just fucks with them and brings it up when they start making excuses

honestly i regret joining the muhreens but i like some of the people in it too much to get out.

>>33279104
I had a great uncle who was with the 101st from dday to the bulge. My family never really knew much about his service because they didnt care. only thing they knew was he shot a german on dday and took his wallet, and he was shot in the knee during the battle of the bulge. Even though he was infantry during the most famous battles of ww2 and got shot. He ended up less fucked up then his brother who was a sailor whose ship got hit by a kamikaze.

also my friends grandpa was a commander of a light tank during ww2. He got a bronze star for basically yoloing his tank into a trench. He didnt really become fucked up from the war it just made him really passive. Like if you called him a motherfucker to his face he probably wouldnt get mad. He became really good at gardening and ended up owning like 8 businesses.

>>33273344
The end of World War I? The last Civil War veteran died in 1957

>>33273344
The last civil war veteran saw the end of the Korean War.

Also, in some measure, the combat during the American civil war was more horrific.

>>33272653
1. There are documents of men firing water cooled machines guns while running up field with the belts of ammo draped over their shoulders. Hella burns on the forearms, but it is possible. Adrenaline is a hellofa drug.

2. Corpses are not bulletproof sure, but they could slow down/ stop smaller caliber rounds, and submachine guns use pistol caliber rounds.

3. The batting away grenade part is a documented instance.

Its hard to believe but some of these things are not that far of a stretch.

I joined the British Army in 1961 and the WW2 generation were still present. Most of the senior ranks had done WW2 - along with Korea, Malaya, Cyprus and Kenya among other places. This was a wealth of experience, but at times extremely toxic.

Lance Sergeant Harris had been written up for an MC during the war and selected for promotion, yet found himself demoted and promoted repeatedly. The MC was never awarded due to other actions - I heard rumours but never knew for sure why he was denied the MC. By the Sixties he was something of a legendary figure. He was a ferocious soldier, even by our standards, and was thoroughly respected by every man in the Battalion. Some felt it should have been the Victoria Cross.

In hindsight, he was mentally ill. Bizarre acts were written off as eccentricities, or good spirits. I don't know if anything could have helped him out of that. Back then such things did not exist, and a soldier of his calibre and reputation would simply be invited into the RSMs office and offered a stiff drink if he had a problem. The more I think about it, the more cases like that I came across. Putting them in a group together meant that we couldn't see the wood for the trees - they were no different to their peers. Not every man who had served then had suffered, but I can still remember the names and faces of those who had. It was obvious but no one was saying anything, such was the respect they commanded.

Contemporary times are different, and psychological problems are picked up on and studied. This is a better thing no matter how you cut it, but unfortunately brings problems of its own.

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>>33280262
>70-74 year old on 4chan

What brought you to this stinking den of sin?


Do you have a waifu?

>>33280269
I, rather boringly, have an interest in bicycle racing and followed a link to the photography board from a bike website I browse. Then I found this part of the site.

>>33280292

Well that's a respectable and understandable origin story and we're lucky to have someone with your world experience and expertise.

You need a waifu though. Or a raifu.

>>33272555
they drink and keep to them self
or they have illness mental or otherwise that kills them

>>33279326
>>33279383
One of the things that always sticks with me is when I finally realized none of my SOI instructors were over 25. They all looked well into their 30s. I guess multiple deployments to pre-07 Iraq will do that.

>>33276148

Lol, we all lose parts of us kiddo. Some more than others.

You'd be unaffected cause you'd get domed.

>>33280209
Shit, Robert Jordan shot an RPG out of the air

>>33280262
Were you alive during the war?
Also did you take part in putting down the Mau mau insurrection?
And is Britain much different now?

>>33280262
>>33280292
Did you ever meet any officers that graduated from Texas A&M from the US Army?

>>33273118
We had POGs, including officers, kill themselves at NTC BEFORE they deployed.

Some people join for the wrong reasons

>>33281768
>including officers

>going through 4 years of training while also juggling school
>waiting until before you actually deploy to kill yourself
Y 4?

>>33281787
I have no idea. I can say that the Army is better at covering up the extent of suicides than they are at training for armored warfare.

>>33280262

What sort of behavior did they exhibit?

Why can't we have more movies like Kelly's Heroes?

I'm tired of this grimdark shit.

>>33280292
my /n/igga. seconding this guy >>33281908
not even E.B. Sledge wrote about the things his buddies did once they reached their psychological breaking point on okinawa

>>33281986
"Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers..."

>>33281986

This. Fury and this latest piece of shit make the actual veterans cringe.

I have a question /k/.

How come earpro has become almost dogma in the modern day, yet in the World Wars no one wore earpro even though you had machine guns going off constantly, artillery and mortars landing every few seconds, and planes dropping bombs which are far louder than just a few guns at the range?

Is earpro just a forced fad?

>>33273450
My gut reaction is to say that open armed conflict between the great nuclear powers will always end in an exchange, but China and Russia used to fight all the time.

>>33284654

Because all those guys went deaf from all that racket.

>>33284654
They'd shove cotton or shit in their ears. Also, guns haven't gotten quieter to my basic understanding of science.

>>33272653
>>firing a bar one-handed accurately

Target rich environment

>>corpses are bulletproof

enough of them are

>>batting away grenades

My balls have more heft than Type 97's

>>33273349
>Whatever is exploding near them isn't mortar fire, there wouldn't be any fucking flames in the explosion,

Japanese Explosives were primarily (damn near exclusively) TNT based. TNT does indeed create a fireball. Video evidence below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMieOeuZAKE

>>33273424
>>banged a nurse in a stolen jeep, sniper shot the radiator, he had to piss in it to get back to base

Unless your grandfather had a horse bladder than he's not telling you the truth.

>>33284654
Because now the laws have forced the military to pay out for hearing disabilities. It's all about saving money.

>>33281049
I was born in 1944. Never served in Kenya. Borneo, Hong Kong, Aden then out in 1968. Britain is vastly different, but so is the world. Some things are far worse, others are much better. I live between the UK and Florida, which caters to everything I'm into quite well.

>>33281764
We had American exchange officers for Borneo. One was a Captain, the other was more senior and seemed only to spend time with the CO. As it was a Guards Regiment an the 1960s, we weren't exactly allowed to speak with officers, but the American was a fine officer and I know him on a social basis today. He didn't go to Texas A&M though, sorry.

>>33282674
>>33281908
An old hand in the mortar platoon, every Friday without fail, would round his section up and ask them if anyone was driving to the Isle of Wight for the weekend. It was written off as an eccentricity and a bit of a joke, he'd always laugh it off and no one really had the courage to ask what he wanted to go for. One Saturday morning the CO got a call from the police station down there and asked for someone to come and identify the body.

One passed over Major would talk at length about his sister, who translated Latin into English for a living and was quite a well respected academic. I was quietly informed that he did not have a sister, but fancied himself as a creative writer and was attempting to write a murder mystery novel for when he left. Another senior figure had previously served with the SAS in Malaya and took two Purdeys (a 12 bore and a double rifle in .375) with him on our Borneo tour for 'sport'. He considered them integral to an operational tour, as he was a hunting fanatic and bagged all sorts over the years - bemused Guardsmen carrying the spare whilst he reloaded. He would amuse himself by shooting the Purdey with salt filled shells at anyone who walked past his office when at HQ.

Others were prone to random violence or episodic drinking.

>>33285188
A 73 year old on /k/, jesus.

>>33272555
>These types of statistics are an extremely taboo part of our history and culture

Back then or currently?

>>33285386

Both!

But even more so back then.

>>33273198
ROK has autonomous gun turret on DMZ, doesn't it?

>>33273950
So it is possible for them to have seen the nuclear bomb used? Lmao

>>33272888
Transportation guys, and distro plt were the most fucked up pogs I've ever met.

They signed on thinking it would be some sham, behind friendly lines gig, with little combat training.

Terrorists don't attack infantry, they know how to shoot back. But those supply trains were always hit the hardest, defended by the people with the least amount of training and mental preparedness for combat.

Sad shit watching them go insane when they got home.

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>>33272482
War isn't cod: it's an inglorious waste of good men and resources for all but the politically influential. There's no death more tragic than being blown to shit by a mortar without so much as a glimpse of the enemy.

>>33273594
I feel like this is a very simplistic way of looking at modern warfare between states.

Brigades (aka, largest size battle formations that deploy since divisions don't) don't just have ada on them to shoot down drones, nor do they have unlimited drones, nor are you really thinking about the logistical cost to keep all of those assets moving.

Not to mention, my raven (company asset) sees an enemy. That now needs to get translated up through your battalion, distributed down to other companies in your battalion, while being passed to other battalions through brigade, which has to be communicated down to the individual troop level. Information needs to travel effectively in order to be relevant or useful.

Having a asset =/= capability. I feel like you're really over estimating the technology armies have, at the end of the day it's still soldiers jockeying for the best position and luckily dodging stray bullets.

>>33285525

ROKA recon officer here, we pretty much stopped using them and switched to remote control turrets because the software isn't there yet. Also fuck having to crawl 800 meters through a minefield to hit the reset switch.

>>33285188
Thats some colourful characters damn

>>33273344
The Civil War was fucked up dude

>>33279159
Allen Alda played a surgeon, not a medic.

>>33284994
I don't know, post-sex pee could fill it partially.

>>33272888
>>33273118
>>33276174
SOF tend not to kill themselves because of greater mental fortitude than your average soldier. They also exhibit less cases of PTSD for this reason. There is some documentation about this, if you dig around. Fact is that the guys who can make the cut for SOF are generally the guys who can shrug off most of the stress associated with being a soldier.

>>33284854
>>33273450

MAD is an obsolete doctrine, we've seen multiple instances of nuclear-armed powers fighting each other and not using nukes (India v. Pakistan in the 1990s and China v. the USSR in the 1970s). Granted, these we not all-out wars, it does prove that there is a threshold that must be achieved before any side is willing to risk nuclear strike. Also, as missile defense systems become more and more advanced, we will more than likely come to a point where the majority of IBCMs (most of which were made between the 60's and 80's) will become obsolete delivery systems for nuclear ordnance. Once that happens, MAD will basically no longer be a factor, unless the world's powers decide to engage in another nuclear arms race in order to update their arsenals, which seems quick unlikely for the foreseeable future.

>>33272653
>batting away grenades
fun fact. in world war 1 they employed skeet shooters for anti-grenade work.

>>33279104
>WW1 Artillery caused 60% of british casualties
In a macro sense, yes. The number is actually about 58.3%. However, in a micro sense it varied considerably during the war. Particularly by the end, the Germans were relying more and more on machine gun fire since their artillery was shot out.

Interestingly, recent scholarship has suggested that the German's suffered a spookily similar number of casualties due to artillery, 58.53%.

>>33286022
>Granted, these we not all-out wars,
That is literally what I said in my post. Sure great powers can fight without going nuclear, but it won't be decisive. The moment one side is about to be defeated decisively, they will go nuclear.

Ergo, something more like skirmishing not high intensity operations.

>>33273118
And don't discount Esprit de corps.

>>33285188
>70 year old on 4chan
Normally I would be inclined to doubt, but you seem legit.

What do miss that has changed?

>>33272462
There's about one minute of "realistic" fighting somehwere in there, sandwiched between the hollywood bullshit. the way they moved before the fight started was really unnatural, and by the end of this scene it devolves into rambo levels of action movie crap. So no.

>>33284654
People would shove bits of cloth into their ears if they survived long enough to realize how loud modern war really was, or they'd go def. Tens of thousands returned from the war with no hearing at all and almost everybody suffered hearing loss of some type. Hearing protection isn't some fad.

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>>33273403
>Hague convention, which conviently the biggest players in the world stage never signed.

Wrong, 53 Countries ratified the 1929 Geneva Convention, which was a addition to the Hague treaty, only 9 signed but did not ratify (USSR included). Ratifiers included, the U.K., U.S.A., Italy, Germany, and France. These countries signed years prior to the war.

And for the hell of it, this is a shit scan I did of my Great Uncle's Medical ID from the war.
(Again, sorry for the utter shitness of the scan.)

>>33272555
One of my great uncles manned a machine gun on landing craft in the Pacific during WWII. Apparently he only talked about it a few times, but he told his wife that he could see everyone he was killing (something like 30+ Japanese) and that fucked him up. I remember hearing he became an alcoholic and then shot himself a few years after the war.

>>33285188
I read this entire post in Ian McKellen's voice

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>>33285188
Thanks for sharing

>>33286007
>SOF tend not to kill themselves because of greater mental fortitude than your average soldier

I'm going into old mode again, but I did a stint in the TA (as it was then known) in the early 70s. This mainly consisted of me hanging about the TA centre and drinking brews, but occasionally we did some interesting things. At the time, 22 SAS were running a very strange procedure in which psychiatrists and psychologists probed the guys at the various stages of selection and contrasted this with badged troopers and officers. 21 and 23 were invited to take part, too, as they had a lot of experience on the books. Two other groups were formed, random selections from across HM Forces with no combat experience and the same age group from the population with no service at all. I observed the testing and took it myself.

There was virtually no mental difference at all. They (the 22 men) were slightly more intelligent than average, but that was about it. The study is alluded to in Ken Connor's excellent book "Ghost Warriors" (which is a terrible title, I know) and the problems with psychological profiling. The idea was that you could select who was likely to pass or fail selection based on their test results. This carries on after service, I know plenty of men who have had very interesting and intense SF careers that have taken their own lives with no warning.

>>33286263
Amateur sport, mainly. Professionalism has harmed club rugby and cricket.

I miss the 50s and 60s attitude to life, where if you stayed out of trouble you were fine to do as you liked. I think this is the main thing the UK and USA have got largely wrong over the last 40 years, people are micromanaged by the state to an extent that ultimately does no one any favour.

>>33273426
We figured out a solution to losing country's REE'ing after they lose a war. We've figured out a solution for hundreds of years now.

It's called "plea amnesty", and it basically means "look, if you don't go REE and fuck around even after you surrender, then we swear we'll go easy on you." It's a very old, very reliable tactic. Easier to offer to help rebuild their leveled buildings then it is to fight a second (third) world war.

>>33279430
>"Concentration camp"

He never talked about it because he never saw it. Full of shit.

I fully agree that war fucks people up. But at the same time I think there are people who handle it much better than others.

My father's old team sergeant was in CCSouth SOG in nam. He lost three of his front teeth on his upper jaw from clacking off a mechanical ambush. The story goes that he stood up and yelled "I got you motherfuckers!" Before clacking off a loop of claymores. A rock got kicked back from the explosion and shattered his mouth. Only ever heard the story from his teammates. He's the nicest guy today, but he still has a bad temper.

I frequent a bar that has a few older guys who are the closest thing to friends I have right now. ( I have my old childhood friends but the have dispersed). They are combat vets and you wouldn't really no it and they don't reveal it readily.

One of the gentleman served in Nam in the 60's. Over some beer and pretzels he broke into a story of being in a foxhole and getting to hear Armstrong land on the moon over the comm. I'm getting misty eyed remembering it. He did too and a lone tear escaped the rim of his glasses before he quickly wiped it off his cheek.

>>33272462
>tons of soldiers sitting around the base of the cliff
>wounded man gets lowered down
>and another
>and another
>and another
>this goes on for the entire night
>50+ men lowered
>not a single mother fucking person climbed up to help him lower these men

This part was complete horseshit

>>33294258
But it's true.

>>33279138
I was in for ten years, three deployments. I flipped out on a senior nco in my unit after I had started drinking heavily to feel "normal" like everyone else. After the fight my cc forced me to go to mental health or he would push for an admin discharge. They immediately slapped a ptsd tag on me because that's what was most convenient to do rather than figure out what exactly was wrong with me. I don't think I have ptsd, but it is absolutely shoved down your throat if you have a deployment history and start acting strange.

I ended up being forced into a veterans ptsd in patient program where they continued to shove "you have ptsd" onto everyone.

I have talked about this with friends and we think it's so if we kill someone or ourselves it's easiest for the military to write it off to the public as "he had ptsd and struggled with his demons.

I was lucky, my commander liked me and I was a high speed troop up until that point. Most other guys that have done what I did are OTH'd and booted with no benefits.

>>33294347
The story is either false, exaggerated, of the hundreds of men at the base of hacksaw ridge were a bunch of cowards.

So which is it?

>>33280292

Jesus Christ.

>>33276193
>duhr I don't know what war does or is
Not everyone poisons the well and salts the earth.

>>33272888
SOF are largely psychopaths, I mean that in the literal scientific sense

>>33273349
>the fucking gooks

They're Japs, not Gooks you retarded shit-fucker.

>>33294621

psychopaths generally don't make good soldiers.

Sociopaths can though.

>>33276286
Lol

>>33294622
>there's a gook woman in there [with a nasty abdominal wound]
t. E.B. Sledge - Okinawa, 1944

Calm your autism you turbonerd.

>>33294621

>>33294632
I was a dog handler and had some encounters with army SOF. always very quiet and spoke with a literal voice. I dont know how to explain it, like they only speak in reserved voices and choose words. I met one in a civilian environment at a wedding where all of our wives worked together but we'd never met. I started talking to a green beret and noticed that odd style of serious tone and straight forward speaking. We were drinking and I eventually asked him what he did and he told me. He even offered to do joint training with our kennels, but I never took him up on it and I regret it.

Anyway, it was almost like low spectrum autism or something, but it wasn't. I don't know how to explain it any other way.

I also went through ALS with a combat controller that drove a mini van, was always in trouble, and never deployed. I don't know what I was getting at. Anyway, army SOF at least has some odd ones. The air force pj's and cct's ive met seemed like normal people.

>>33272555
My old ass grandfather doesn't talk about it much. Some of his senpai got killed by the Japs and commies (China) so I can understand. He did end up becoming a general though, and I still have a cool photo of him shaking hands with Chiang Kai Shek (the founder of Taiwan) somewhere.

But the only time he ever talked about his experiences was when I chose to enlist in the Marines, and we finally had something in common I guess. Never talked about it again.

He still hates the japs though lol

>>33294393
There's a dining hall at ft. Sam Houston named after a medic who drug 50 wounded soldiers while low crawling through no mans land. He had no help based on the MoH citation, he just kept going back for more.

Shit happens, also many of those men were draftees

>>33272462
That guy must have been waiting there for some time just to give us a jump scare.

In all seriousness if some of these battles were like they are in this movie the battle would've lasted a day or two before everyone on the entire island had died. I mean in this 1:30 scene at least half a company of Americans and an equal number of Japanese go down in a handful of mortar drops and machine gun bursts. Also judging from the size of those explosions they would've heard them being fired long before they ever hit.

>>33273095
Only if everyone throws the genava convention in the bin and wants to fuck countrys and civilian populations beyodn reconition with widespread use of bio/chem weapons.

>>33294393
Cowardice, under extreme sniper fire no one else wanted to nor were they ordered to.

>>33290866
Do you mean this book? Took a bit of googlefu to find it.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/985194.Ghost_Force

>>33272555
Grandfather was an alcoholic. Great uncle (his brother) committed suicide.

People who act like PTSD is a new phenomenon are fucking retards.

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This was an AM radio in 1922, the year my mom was born;

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>>33297599

This was a cell phone from 2008, the year my mom died at 86;

>>33273403
The hague. Don't be a retard anon. Hague is not a city.

>>33273388

It's always sad when I see old footage from the outbreak of the war, people were almost happy to be getting into it.

And then the horrors set in.

>>33290882
Except the countries before couldn't nuke you back into the stone age after being defeated. As a matter of fact the countries couldn't do shit but acccept or take the dick.

>>33297245
At what point does it stop being cowardice and does it start being common sense.

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>>33298152

>>33276406
It would be a massive historical favor.

>>33276406
Please do, and send some good quality copies to a museum or something.

>>33299111
Indeed, I hate the idea of old photos being throw out by family or care takers that see it as junk, and then its lost forever.

>>33272757
your gramps was in nam? my old man was in Nam.

>>33272555
Reading these posts, I kind of see a pattern here. My great grandfather was a sergeant in the bulgarian army post-1944. His unit had to hold a chokepoint somewhere on the Drava when the Germany's last offensive in Hungary happened. Basically, he lost all his lifelong friends in 2 days. When he returned he lost his will to socialize, started drinking more, stopped speaking unless nessesary or spoken to, became grumpy and would go for days without speaking to his wife, just making wooden barrels in silence. He never spoke about the war with me and (my father told me)you had to get him drunk to even mention it at all. The industrial-type wars fuck you up. The older gen just swallow it up and go on with life, suffering internaly in silence, drowning it with booze. This is the "manly" thing to do, in their mindset.

>>33272555
Gandolfini did an interesting documentary on this before he died. Often codified as "battle fatigue" or a plethora of other names.

Wartorn.1861-2010.2010.HDTV.XviD-hV - I'll be seeding brehs

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>>33272462
Anon what the fuck

Haven't you learned that Hollywood is the epitome of realism yet?

They always get every single fact dead-on correct.

>>33272555
My old pastor fought in France as a machine gunner and was by far the nicest guy I've ever met.

>>33272671
>20lbs
>Hurrrrr durrrrr you'd have to be the mountain to do it!

Nigga it's 20lbs any adult male would be able to do it for at least 60 seconds.

>>33294258
That's the one part that's legit though

>>33302593
Didn't that actually happen?

>>33303068
You try carrying it one-handed, while advancing forward, while carrying what is probably a 40-60 pound torso (that's being shot) in the other hand, while firing it full auto from the hip and miraculously make hits on target with it, then.

>>33285386
A little bit of both. Definitely back then, but even more so now because hearing the negative realities of post war America, doesn't really line up with the Stars and stripes propaganda we've been fed all our lives

>>33303231

No.

that scene with the bar is bullshit, how the fuck can you carry that shit one handed fully automatic whilst making hits with it, fuck off.

>>33303270
I'm not a child I'm 6'3 260 with a 1475lb power lifting total it's fucking easy m8

>>33303527
>dick-waving THIS HARD

I'm sure you represent the average marine fighting in the Pacific during WW2, Arnie.

>>33303994
I represent the average marine fighting today, weakfag