A constant argument I hear from people who oppose the nuclear

They were, but with a fuck ton of conditions, keeping captured territory all kinds of shit.

The USSR would have invaded Japan if we let them.

Still had to nuke them twice to get an unconditional

How do people that are nuked live in the same place the radiation was the heaviest if radiation has a million year half-life?

>>33232433
This, and also the Japanese foreign ministry was sending peace offers to foreign countries that the actual Japanese government would never have accepted.

>>33232515
It doesn't, who the hell told you that?

>>33232515

A million year half life would be relatively low level radiation, short half life = higher radioactivity

>>33232433
Wikipedia (lol) says that occupied China had upwards of 100k people dying every month.

So I guess that 129k dead people in Japan is far less, if it could have stopped the occupation of China.

>>33232406
we refused because their conditions were total horseshit and the commies were gonna take it over if we didn't do anything.
it was either nuke the fuckers or operation downfall, and curtis lemay won.

>>33233087
Why would nuking the Japanese have stopped an invasion by the USSR?

>>33232406

>FUCKING NAZI SCUM BOMBED CIVILIANS
>WARCRIMES

>Americans drop 2 big ones on Jap civilians
>I-It was the only way!

Dropping the bombs was a "fuck off" to the Soviets making a move on China/Japan.

It had fuck-all to do with "possible invasion losses", considering that the cold war started right after V-Day and the US was planning for a war with the Soviets.

L2history.

>>33233111
Hot memes bro

>>33233062
Yeah, Japanese war crimes were comparable to the Nazis, of course the Chinese flooding the yellow river to slow Japanese advances killed millions of their own people. Chins doesn't give a fuck over a few million people.
Disruption of supply lines killed a lot, Japanese spread plagues, executions and good old fashioned war killed so many.
I think Chins lost nearly as many civilians as the USSR did.

>>33233124

Stale argument bro

>>33232406
Japan had made several peace offers to the Allies during the war. We weren't going to accept a surrender that didn't include occupation of the home islands, they didn't include that in their offers until after the second bomb.

>>33232433
>The USSR would have invaded Japan if we let them.
With what sea lift? We went worried about the Russians trying to invade the home islands, we were trying to save as much of China as possible for the Nationalist Chinese government.

Didn't really work out.

>>33233152
Well

>It had fuck-all to do with "possible invasion losses", considering that the cold war started right after V-Day and the US was planning for a war with the Soviets.

Planning for a war and fighting one are two different things.

The invasion of the home islands was projected to result in 2 million American casualties, and that turned out to be too optimistic because the Japanese correctly guessed the allied landing sites.

>>33233111
>>NAZI SCUM BOMBED CIVILIANS
>>WARCRIMES
None of the war crimes trials at Nuremburg were for bombing civilians. They were mostly for collecting them in big groups and killing them systematically.

>>33233226

Who is talking about Nürnberg?

This is about the warmachine propaganda. Im not a retarded /pol/ faggot who glorifies fascism, but lets pretend like the Allies werent aching for an all out war with Germany, only for it to turn around and bite them in the ass.

>>33233198

>he still doesnt get it

>>33233111
If we had invaded, expending American lives, after putting so much time and money into creating a war ending super weapon. Truman would have been lynched.

>>33233255
Germany very clearly started the second world war in the European Theater. Yes, the US embargoed Japan, but that was an effort to avoid going to war with Japan over China.

You can totally work to entrench your national advantage over a rival who has competing national goals without actually courting war.

Roosevelt wanted to join the war the moment it became a war to preserve the Soviets, because he was a filthy commie too, but the isolationist sentiment in Congress and at large was very strong.

>>33233093
Nuking Japan would serve two reasons, to break the spirit of Japanese people, and to scare the Russians into calming the fuck down.

>>33233111
>L2History
>we couldn't let the Soviets get Japan
>we also just let the Soviets conquer all of eastern europe and blame the Poland invasion on Nazis
>but yeah we couldn't let them get some shitty island in the pacific

>If a man comes and murders your wife and children, you are justified in murdering his wife and children.

>>33232406
It's part of their increasing infatuation with revisionist history.

We're ok with it, for now, because it really triggers the fuck out of China.

>>33234095
Forgot to add link-

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/08/22/commentary/abes-revisionism-japans-divided-war-memories/#.WL9on7U77YU

>>33232515
Actually the heavy radiation thats caused by a nuclear explosion and the radioactive fallout only have a half-life of a few hours. Why did you think they began rebuilding Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1949?

>>33233749
Is it really surprising that the US didn't want a nuclear island hopping situation to happen with the USSR?

>>33232406
Fun fact: The American gouvernment warned the Japanese specifically about two atomic bombs they were ready to drop on Japanese cities, and still the Japanese gouvernment refused to accept a capitulation without conditions even after the first bomb. The only alternative to the bombs would have been the invasion of the motherland, which would have resulted in millions of dead Americans and Japanese civilians. A fucking Iwo Jima times twenty, with all those fortifications and tunnel systems all over Japan as well as women and children trained to attack US soldiers with bamboo spears or crawl under US tanks with a bag of explosives.

>>33233093
Build up. Russia was still int he process of re-consolidating its force from the eastern front. The bombs didn't so much *stop* them from invading so much as it allowed us to take the territory over decisively without the possibility another East/West German split. Knowing we could burn them to glass was just icing on the cake intimidation.

Another fun/inconvenient fact: Kyoto was first on the bomb list. It only survives today because one man in the US government lobbied it to be spared.

Read up on Operation Downfall. If we has gone in and invaded it would have cost hundreds if thousands more lives. The US arrmy chemical corps was building up stockpiles of chemical weapons and getting ready to deploy, just to try and bring down the projected Allied casualty rates. If we had gone in, likely it would have ended another year of war and maybe half a million more dead with Japan likely being pissy and resentful about it. Instead we killed a fraction of that and ended up with a regional ally and, eventually, an economic trade partner.